#dev 2025-12-18

2025-12-18 UTC
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[Trevor_Morris] I've been using Laravel on my website for years now. Still on PHP 8.2 and L11, but have a branch for L12. Need to check out my dependencies before I can upgrade. I also use Filament to power my CMS.
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[KevinMarks] The accelerated deprecation stuff is such an antipattern. One that really wound me up was seeing a checkin to remove backward compatibility with previous Python version that were already in the codebase, because that version of Python was no longer supported. Forcing yakshaving onto everyone else.
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[KevinMarks] I'm old enough to remember working at Apple where we took binary compatibility with older versions seriously, not just being able to rebuild with the new version.
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[snarfed] I was surprised to see LD Notifs in the W3C Social WG charter, https://www.w3.org/2025/11/proposed-socialwg-charter.html . I know that's where it lives, I guess I was just surprised that anyone still cares about it...? does anyone use it?
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[snarfed] (I know those are two different questions 😎)
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[tantek] [snarfed] it was easier to say "all prior Social Web WG RECs" than get into arguments / fights about what should be in or not in the charter
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[tantek] regarding whether anyone uses it, LDN advocates claim that AP inboxes work via LDN which I don't know enough to verify or debunk. you may know better
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[tantek] whether anyone cares, we'll see if anyone shows up to edit LDN and make revisions
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[snarfed] ok!
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[snarfed] I was also surprised at how little the charter says vs how much argument there was over it. it seems like almost entirely boilerplate, other than the external groups and LOLA. did a bunch of stuff just get removed altogether to resolve the debates?
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[tantek] There were multiple charter drafts that various folks were iterating on
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[tantek] The simpler charter that you see is the one that had the least (and weakest) objections / most support
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[tantek] there is a small but vocal "ActivityPub exclusive" contingent that was pushing for only that, and most people didn't want to fight it, but when it was made clear that was anti-inclusive of the community we were all trying to build, even most ActivityPub supporters agreed it was better to allow/enable maintenance of all RECs and see who steps up to help edit them
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[tantek] the arguments took place mostly in github comments in issues / PRs, and maybe a little on the public-swicg mailing list
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[snarfed] thanks, got it
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[snarfed] I remember some other pretty intense debates too, on procedure and governance, separate from the content. but no matter. this looks good!
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[tantek] yeah exactly, let's focus on the present
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[tantek] the rest is only "over a drink" worthy IMO
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ulhar4409 [tantek]: "ActivityPub exclusive"?
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[tantek] ulhar4409 what protocols & formats do you support on your personal site?
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ulhar4409 oh, it's still under construction
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[tantek] do you have a construction plan?
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ulhar4409 IndieWeb stuff has been the main priority (ideal web), I might support ActivityPub later (second-most ideal web), not currently considering ATProto (ninety-ninth most ideal web)
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ulhar4409 but construction has mostly been in my spare time after work
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[tantek] can sympathize. yeah I'd say prioritize the things that let you use your website for what you want to do with it!
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[tantek] procrastinate on any protocol "checklist" items
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ulhar4409 it would be cool if i end up with a somewhat raccoonfoodable codebase though
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ulhar4409 I'd love to get my friends involved in this stuff
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[tantek] yep, start with making it work for you, then maybe one more friend. that will be plenty of work
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ulhar4409 (I've been writing most of my code in the same script that starts my daemon process in NFS which is probably bad practice :P)
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ulhar4409 start-daemon.lisp / looks inside / pandoc helper functions, webmention sender, mf2 compiler,
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ulhar4409 there's a lot of stuff i've been wanting to do in my old site too, mostly about images (thumbnailing) and cleanup; but my goal is to make the old site mostly obsolete
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ulhar4409 (thumbnailing doesn't seem too hard, mostly just picking resolutions to shrink too, but I'm awful at being arbitrary sometimes)
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ulhar4409 i do know a furry webdev who pipes ActivityPub comments into their site, and does use webmention.io for their own curiosity iirc
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ulhar4409 so indieweb stuff there wouldn't be a far-fetched development i think