#dev 2026-05-01

2026-05-01 UTC
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[artlung] https://archive.softwareheritage.org/ is new to me.
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yesoperator I can't figure out why my site, https://reeds.websitr isn't working to login to indielogin.com - i have both GitHub and bsky setup.
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yesoperator Thought I'd ask here if I'm missing something obvious before making a GitHub issue as the site suggested
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IWDiscord <y​esoperator>
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yesoperator [edit] I can't figure out why my site, https://reeds.websitr isn't working to login to indielogin.com - i have GitHub and bsky and email setup.
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yesoperator Thought I'd ask here if I'm missing something obvious before making a GitHub issue as the site suggested
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IWDiscord <y​esoperator>
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yesoperator [edit] I can't figure out why my site, https://reeds.website isn't working to login to indielogin.com - i have GitHub and bsky and email setup.
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yesoperator Thought I'd ask here if I'm missing something obvious before making a GitHub issue as the site suggested
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IWDiscord <y​esoperator>
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[Kupietz] @yesoperator You don't have any `rel="me"` links set up in your site `head` section. See https://indieauth.com/setup or https://indielogin.com/setup
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yesoperator Thank you [Kupietz]]++ I thought based on this doc https://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth I could use a tags in the body instead of link tags in the head, and if I didn't want to have those links on my home page I could link to my contacts page with them.
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yesoperator But I'm totally confused by the relationship between relmeauth, websignin, indie auth, and indie login, going by the seat of my pants here
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IWDiscord <y​esoperator>
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Loqi [preview] Tantek Çelik
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yesoperator Working now with those links, ty [Kupietz]++
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Loqi [Kupietz] has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (23 in all channels)
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[capjamesg] TIL about Mastodon Glitch Edition: https://omglol.news/2026/04/30/social-lol-is-gonna-go-glitchy-in-a-good-way
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[tantek] [Kupietz] there is no requirement for the rel=me link(s) to be in the head element. Quite the opposite. It's preferred to have them in the body element on the links you already have to your other profiles.
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[tantek] wait yet another software meaning of Glitch?
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[capjamesg] yesoperator https://indieweb.org/Web_sign-in#Details talks about some of the similarities and differences. Let us know if you have any questions after reading that!
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[capjamesg] Glitch Edition looks like it has a few cool features like hiding follower counts (https://glitch-soc.github.io/docs/)
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[Kupietz] [tantek] @yesoperator I stand corrected on the location of the links, however, it looks like it works either way, and I’m glad that it worked for you now. I believe I have them in my ‘head’ myself, because I don’t have links to my GitHub on my homepage.
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[tantek] yes they originally only worked in the body but exactly that use-case [Kupietz] is the reason we made them work in the head also
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yesoperator I had that in my contact page body, but it wasn't working. I'm not understanding why indielogin.com wasn't looking on my contact page and seeing it.
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IWDiscord <y​esoperator>
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yesoperator Is that because it's only relmeauth that does that, but other indie auth doesn't do that jump?
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[tantek] did you use your contact page with indielogin?
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[tantek] there is no crawling in these protocols. what you submit as the URL to sign in with is what is used
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yesoperator Ah I didn't try that, just my plain domain. maybe I'll revert and try that, thank you.
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yesoperator The jump I'm referring to is described here https://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth under the heading "separate contact page"
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IWDiscord <y​esoperator>
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Loqi [preview] Tantek Çelik
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[tantek] good catch. we added that for the use-cases but I'm not sure it was ever implemented. may need to move that to a different section
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[tantek] if I recall correctly, implementers were saying there was too much overhead (too many http requests) to try all the subpages people may link to with rel=me
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yesoperator That makes sense, thank you, I'm officially un-confused
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[capjamesg] PSA, new Linux kernel vulnerability: https://copy.fail/
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aaronpk That seems very bad
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aaronpk Kinda makes me want to shut down as many of my public web services as I can
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[capjamesg] HN has more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47952181 (I don’t usually share HN links, but I don’t understand this well enough but maybe the insights there are helpful)
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paultibbetts hey folks, there’s a post in the stream channel that had the same issue I did and I wanted to clarify my understanding before I incorrectly edit the wiki
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paultibbetts context: bluesky/ATProto doesn’t let you use `rel=me` to link back to your site, so you need to link to your profile as `rel=me atproto` for RelMeAuth
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paultibbetts 1. am I correct, and could this be highlighted more on the indieauth.com, rel-me and “how to set up web sign-in on your own domain” wiki pages? any others? (it is mentioned briefly on some of these pages)
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paultibbetts 2. even with `rel=me atproto` indiewebify.me states bluesky “does not link back”, is that a valid feature enhancement opportunity?
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paultibbetts cc aaronpk as the author of the rel-atproto wiki page
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aaronpk What is rel-at-proto?
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Loqi rel-atproto is a link relation that can be added to your rel-me links to indicate that this link is an ATProto account handle and an authentication option in RelMeAuth https://indieweb.org/rel-atproto
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aaronpk Hm, I bet indiewebify.me doesn't know about that
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aaronpk The other problem is these things don't necessarily return HTML that can be checked for the backlink, which is what happened with twitter a while ago. So indielogin.com verifies the "link" after you log in by using the API
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paultibbetts ok thank you, so not a quick change for indiewebify.me to add it. I'll add a note to the wiki page that indiewebify.me links to to highlight bluesky as needing the extra value
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aaronpk Yeah, the only way to really check for the backlink is to do the actual OAuth flow
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[Kupietz] Holy cow. My not-quite-current version of Debian is in a small window that happens not to be vulnerable to CopyFail. 😇
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[tantek] aaronpk, when you have a moment: https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/pull/129
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Loqi [preview] [tantek] #129 rm obsolete silo guidance, links to wiki lists. validate-rel-me.html.php
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[tantek] paultibbetts, could you file issues on IndieWebify and IndieLogin requesting atproto support (presumably trying to use your Bluesky/ATproto profile to verify your domain ownership and sign-in) https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues and https://github.com/aaronpk/indielogin.com/issues
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paultibbetts tantek: ok will do
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aaronpk I did bluesky login for indielogin.com in October https://github.com/aaronpk/indielogin.com/issues/134
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[capjamesg] burgeonlab++ I love the citation section on your blog posts.
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Loqi burgeonlab has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (13 in all channels)
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[tantek] aaronpk, ahhh so because indiewebify didn't work with bluesky, they gave up on trying it with indielogin
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aaronpk Yep
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[tantek] oh no they did try indielogin and the bluesky support didn't work. see "Update Seven" https://www.artoffaceless.com/the-indieweb-is-right-but-should-we-trust-it/#update-seven-%E2%80%94-the-one-that-changes-everything
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aaronpk Not clear to me whether they had rel atproto on it at that point
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[tantek] the IndieLogin error message "This is not a supported authentication provider." provides no clue about whether rel-atproto is needed or missing though. how would they know what to do?
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aaronpk Should I say "add rel atproto" on every unsupported link?
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aaronpk Or should I hardcode a check for the bsky.app domain and show the message? Or at that point assume it's atproto and have it just work?
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[KevinMarks] The number of atproto PDS providers is growing but they're still a small percentage of overall accounts. I saw http://brid.gy was the biggest with ~1% of accounts
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[snarfed] true!...but PDSes are different than (web) clients. aaronpk yeah detecting http://bsky.app + all rel=atproto makes sense to me
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[snarfed] you also then have to hard code handling http://bsky.app's URL format. and same with any other client you may add support for later. ATProto doesn't do conneg or afaik have any other standard for HTML metadata or rel links on user-facing profile pages
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[snarfed] best I see on eg https://bsky.app/profile/snarfed.org is a http://schema.org JSON blob in <script type="application/ld+json"> , which...up to you 🤷
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[capjamesg] [artlung] This may be what you need: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49973885/can-a-recursive-variable-be-expressed-in-css/49977591#49977591
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[capjamesg] Unfortunately you need to add alternating classes.
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aaronpk to be clear, hardcoding the bsky.app domain would be to show a more helpful error message, not to make it work
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aaronpk they should be linking to their actual atproto URL with rel=atproto. if they link to the bsky.app version i would want to show an error saying they shouldn't link to bsky.app
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[artlung] Thanks [capjamesg] It may be cleaner just to push in a factor and assure the calculations work. https://codepen.io/artlung/pen/JobovJM is a start (though an svg of the kitty would de-pixelize the resize.
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[artlung] (it's a mess, but helped me visualize the task at least)
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[artlung] Thanks [Sophia_wood] for the graphic
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[Sophia_wood] I need to redraw it as vector right - then it would work better?
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[tantek] aaronpk, my off the cuff guess is that "hardcoding the http://bsky.app domain would be to show a more helpful error message" would be a 99.999% solution so yes I'd say that's plenty good enough for rapidly shipping.
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[artlung] yes, a vector would scale without jaggies
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[KevinMarks] Can you follow the well-known to get the atproto account from a personal website?
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[snarfed] hah actually that's a good point [KevinMarks]. either DNS or well-known, yes, https://atproto.com/specs/handle#handle-resolution
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[snarfed] maybe technically no longer relmeauth, but still usable
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[tantek] well-known is isomorphic to rel-me. it doesn't help this situation at all (which is how do you check what advice to give people for what markup to add to which rel=me links)
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[tantek] do we have any other rel-atproto consumers besides IndieLogin?
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[tantek] consumers meaning consuming code implementations
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[snarfed] sure. it's a higher level solution of "can I try Bluesky OAuth login for this domain," not "can we advise them whether/how to add markup"
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gRegor On indiewebify.me, reminder that there's still this project if anyone wants to take it on: https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/82
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Loqi [preview] [gRegorLove] #82 Migrate to Slim4 framework
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[KevinMarks] Vouch for github repos https://github.com/mitchellh/vouch/
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[snarfed] mitchell hashimoto! hashicorp founder
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aaronpk the problem is I don't want to check for the well-known URL for every rel=me link on a website, that's why you have to add rel=atproto
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[artlung] [Sophia_wood] [capjamesg] Closer. https://codepen.io/artlung/pen/JobovJM
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aaronpk same problem with indieauth and mastodon, i don't want to have to test whether an arbitrary rel=me URL has an indieauth / mastodon oauth provider
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[capjamesg] [artlung]++ very cool!!
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Loqi [artlung] has 41 karma in this channel over the last year (240 in all channels)
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[tantek] [artlung]++ beautiful and I can't wait to see Sophia's reaction to it
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Loqi [artlung] has 42 karma in this channel over the last year (241 in all channels)
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[capjamesg] https://www.sovereign.tech/news/join-sovereign-tech-standards-network
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[tantek] capjamesg, I am reminded of https://anti.tech/ (who are nice people, I met a few of them last week)
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[capjamesg] Oooh!
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[capjamesg] I just sent them a quick email via the email on their home page to say hi.
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gRegor Hmm, I could have sworn CSS `user-select: all` allowed selecting all text in an input/textarea on focus but doesn't seem to be working for me in Chrome. MDN shows it supported, though the examples aren't form inputs. Was it a different CSS property I'm thinking of?
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gRegor For reference https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/Properties/user-select
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gRegor Hm, it works if I tab into the `input`, though not if I click on the label to focus it. Neither tab nor label click works for the textarea
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gRegor I also have the prefixed `-webkit-` version just in case
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