#known 2019-07-09

2019-07-09 UTC
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[zach] My summer weekends are rather busy, but I will definitely try and make it if I can
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[wtmonroe] [zach] thank you again! That makes sense.
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mapkyca Re S3, yep. It's probably suffered a bit of bitrot. Things have moved on quite significantly in core since the S3 plugin was written but there's only one of me so I can't keep track of everything. Been broken for months now, so I figure not many people are using Known on AWS
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mapkyca Apropos, in one of my other personas I'm in the process of migrating a very complex system into AWS, so a lot of the learnings from this could be fed into known. Particularly getting things running on Fargate etc. Anyway.
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mapkyca Re Mongo: Urgh. Don't get me started. Personally I'd like to see MongoDB support taken into the woods and shot for a number of reasons... not least of which the inconsistent driver support, weird incompatibilities in the versions of the php libraries, and dependancy hell when trying to install it on any sort of modern computer.
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mapkyca Oh, and lets not forget that the whole nosql document store thing is basically an overly complex way of implementing a bad filesystem
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nekr0z Dear all! I've noticed that sometimes posts on my known site get created with blank "search" database field (in "entities" table). Naturally, such posts are not searchable via builtin search. I'm trying to figure out what triggers this behaviour (not all posts are created this way) and would appreciate any advice on debugging this.
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mapkyca The search field is a fudged conflation of a number of object datas - title, body, etc. It's done as part of the individual database engine's saveRecord() method so it'd be good to know what database you're on.
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nekr0z mapkyca: MySQL
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mapkyca It's possible that either the entity isn't providing title, body and tags (which is unlikely, but possible if it's a custom type that stores everything in non-standard metadata)
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mapkyca The search field was always a hack, this isn't the way FT search should be done. But sadly most people aren't going to run an elastic search server
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nekr0z mapkyca: The entity in cases I've observed is standart Post.
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[jgmac1106] yeah search is meh..probably my least favorite feature, no boolean operators, body text not searched for, you have to use hashtags if you ever want to find something again
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[jgmac1106] but like you said you are one person
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[jgmac1106] "most people aren't going to run an elastic search server" wonders if that is an option
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[jgmac1106] each post carries every kind of metadata used since Sumerian librarians started to categorize scrolls...always wondered if any of these could be used for search
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nekr0z For instance, this post: https://evgenykuznetsov.org/2019/%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5-%D0%BC%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%BE-%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82 is searchable.
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nekr0z https://evgenykuznetsov.org/2019/%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%82-%D0%B2-%D1%87%D1%91%D0%BC-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81 - this one is not
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mapkyca Search is hard, and is a product in its own right. The current full text search is a fudge to just get things working, but is in no way the "correct" way of doing things. For clients and paid for known builds I have implemented this sort of thing in AWS using Elastic Search cloud servers.
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nekr0z And I can not figure out the difference. Observe also that they share one tag, and the second post isn't even searchable by tag or listed when you click on the tag.
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mapkyca Metadata search, yeah possible. But the data model of Known needs some work - currently it suffers a great deal for having been built on Mongo first, and trying to preserve the document store way of doing things. When we can finally give mongo the bullet I'd like to go back and make the model more relational
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mapkyca Nekr0z I wonder whether it's a utf8 utf8mb4 thing
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mapkyca Object models are fine because it's encoded, but search field would run into trouble storing anything that's not on the BMP
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nekr0z mapkyca: hmmm... maybe. How do I check?
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mapkyca Probably the quickest thing to do would be to change the collation and see if that fixes things
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mapkyca Want to do this as part of a database patch, but there's hilarious fun with indexes on mysql and using real utf8 support and I've not had time to really dive into it
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nekr0z mapkyca: OK, at least now I have something I could do in my spare time. Thanks!
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mapkyca https://github.com/idno/known/issues/2451
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nekr0z mapkyca: Thing is, at least regarding these two posts, they were created a couple of days apart, and using the same procedure. Is it possible that different collation was used all by itself? I mean, I do update the site to latest master regularly.
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mapkyca Already got part of the way through it, but ran out of time
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mapkyca Unlikely, unless you also updated the database server as well
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mapkyca But the issue is with the collation is mysql's utf support isn't real utf - so characters outside of the bmp cause storage problems
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mapkyca Most people hit this when using emojis
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nekr0z mapkyca: thing is, I can't seem to find any character in the "bad" post that hadn't been used in the "good" one.
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mapkyca It was a hypothesis, but it might be another issue that's preventing it.
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mapkyca Might be worth seeing if you can build a failing test with the "bad" data
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mapkyca If we can replicate it we can fix it :)
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nekr0z mapkyca: OK, now I have even more things to do when I have spare time! :)
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mapkyca It's good to keep busy :)
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nekr0z OK, it's no longer reproducable, or so it seems. I open the "bad" posts, click "Edit", change nothing, click "Publish" - lo and behold, now the post is searchable. Too bad there's no guarantee it doesn't happen again.
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[jgmac1106] [wtmonroe] I added your ideas of the regular Monday IndieWeb edu meetings to the calendar in July. Happy to hang each Monday morning and chat
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[wtmonroe] [jgmac1106] that's great! Where can I find that calendar?
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mapkyca Weird. Maybe it was a particular bug with your install at that one time... or maybe we fixed something since you created the post
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[wtmonroe] [jgmac1106] and I'll be in touch about Monday. Also looking forward to your instructions regarding updating composer in the Reclaim environment. I've managed to install composer in my Known directory using these instructions: https://getcomposer.org/download/ But I'm unsure of what to do next.
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jgmac1106[m] Next you either update to latest build using Terminal and Composer or you FTP. Will do a full video tomorrow
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[wtmonroe] It appears that the most recent version of Known on Marcus Povey's site is 0.12.2 released on 6/15 https://withknown.marcus-povey.co.uk/?C=M;O=A Would that be the correct version for updating if you are seeking non-development builds?
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mapkyca I'll try and build a newer version when I remember, but if memory serves there haven't been any major changes since that build
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[wtmonroe] [mapkyca] thank you! I've downloaded 0.12.2 and am uploading it now.
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[wtmonroe] I've made an attempt to upgrade my Known instance from 0.9.2 to 0.12.2 but was not successful. I posted some comments and error messages here: https://pastebin.com/SbgkJhFP
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mapkyca Yep. PHP 7.0 is EOL, so Known only supports 7.1 and above
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[wtmonroe] Under cPanel > phpMyAdmin it states that PHP version: 7.2.7 is in use.
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[wtmonroe] But surely I've missed something because of the error message I received
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mapkyca Cli != mod apache != php_fpm. This can cause much confusion. Simplest way to be sure is to put a phpinfo() in a file and upload it to your web server
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[wtmonroe] [mapkyca] thank you for that tip. I'm afraid I'm unsure of how to implement it though. I did confirm that terminal in cPanel was showing PHP 7.0.33.
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nekr0z [wtmonroe]: Depends on what hosting you are using. For example, on Dreamhost I had to export path for correct php version (they still offer 5.6 for default, but have up to 7.3 available) for known to work reliably.
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@raldridge @withknown is this project still active? I’m thinking of implementing but wanted to be sure it’ll be around. Thx (twitter.com/_/status/1148657363223638016)
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aaronpk seeing a lot of those tweets lately ^^
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aaronpk worth finding out what they are seeing that would indicate it's not active
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[davidmead] probably because the last tweets were from 2018
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aaronpk ooh didn't even think about the twitter account haha
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[davidmead] and looks like the last Facebook posts are from 2017
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[davidmead] might be worth whoever is in control of them just post a link to an update , or maybe the recent summit
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[mapkyca] I think it's just [benatwork] and erin who have the keys
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@mapkyca ↩️ @raldridge @withknown Very much active. http://github.com/idno/known (twitter.com/_/status/1148674403628212224)
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aaronpk good reminder that setting up a company/project twitter/facebook has the implication that you have to keep updating it otherwise it looks dead
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[davidmead] true [aaronpk]
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[benatwork] Yes
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[benatwork] I’ll do that
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[davidmead] GitHub would not be the first place I’d look (if at all) to see if something is being maintained. For a lot of people that for developers and not end-users
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[davidmead] Though I agree with [mapkyca] that gives the best view into it being “active”
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[benatwork] And lo, I have pumped some life into the social presences, and will continue to do so
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@UnlockProtocol You shouldn't need to learn about crypto to sell memberships to your independent website. We make it possible with just two lines of code. Here's how we integrated the Unlock protocol into the @withknown CMS: https://unlock-protocol.com/blog/integrating-unlock-with-known/ (twitter.com/_/status/1148690743835316224)
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@withknown We believe everyone has the right to define their own identity. We don't just stand for an independent web: we stand for an independent world, where everyone can represent themselves on their own terms and build safe, nurturing communities. #indieweb is the future. (twitter.com/_/status/1148701594424229889)
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@benwerd ↩️ Let me be clear: I was delighted when @withknown was used for groups for racial equality. I would be mortified if it - or @UnlockProtocol - was used by racists, nationalists, sexists, incels, transphobes, etc. Intent matters. I intent to build for inclusive communities. (twitter.com/_/status/1148725288211062784)
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@benwerd ↩️ Let me be clear: I was delighted when @withknown was used for groups for racial equality. I would be mortified if it - or @UnlockProtocol - was used by racists, nationalists, sexists, incels, transphobes, etc. Intent matters. I intend to build for inclusive communities. (twitter.com/_/status/1148725569665691648)
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