#meta 2017-10-29

2017-10-29 UTC
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tantek Missed this Friday - would have made a good photo for the newsletter! https://twitter.com/DKundel/status/923834656944001024
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@DKundel Interesting talk by @adactio about Micropub, RelMeAuth, Quill, Webmention, brid.gy and publishing across the web #viewsource @viewsourceconf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIetREX0AMpJKi.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/923834656944001024)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+192) "move oct events to past, add photo of adactio" (view diff)
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tantek hmm maybe I'll link the others
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tantek https://twitter.com/viewsourceconf/status/923835590365335558
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@viewsourceconf Jeremy Keith reminds us what is most important about the world wide web. Check http://indieweb.org/principles for details. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIfic8W0AAgRIb.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/923835590365335558)
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tantek https://twitter.com/htmlandbacon/status/923836748337164288
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@htmlandbacon Love the principles of the indie web. ?  https://indieweb.org/principles Via @adactio at @viewsourceconf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIgjUtX0AA1n_v.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/923836748337164288)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+137) "/* October */ links to a couple more photos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+97) "/* October */ one more" (view diff)
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tantek fascinating that so many of the photos of adactio are of his reference to /principles ? Have fun
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tantek clearly that resonated
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GWG What room is that with the murals?
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tantek GWG, good question, you'd have to ask adactio. It was at the Mozilla View Source conference
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[kevinmarks] Royal College of Art, I think
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jkphl.is edited /2017/Berlin/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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www.stefanjudis.com edited /2017/Berlin/Guest_List (+462) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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www.stefanjudis.com edited /2017/Berlin/Guest_List (-19) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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derhess.de edited /2017/Berlin/Guest_List (+277) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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tantek hey indieweb-meta folks, I need help with a couple of things. or rather, the two most important (IMO) indieweb-meta things that I need help with:
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tantek 1. When Loqi shows tweets / superfeedr search references to indieweb or building block technology (webmention, micropub etc.), I need help adding those as citations/examples to the wiki, and *especially* if they're photos - adding them to event page(s).
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tantek (that's in/from any channel)
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aaronpk do we have a template for citations? that was a somewhat frustrating thing i ran into the other day. wasn't sure how to format it, using blockquote, cite, etc.
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tantek 2. really need help directing dev-related questions & conversations from #indieweb to #indieweb-dev.
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tantek aaronpk: we don't because frankly, there are so many different ways, that creating a bunch of templates would just move the problem
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tantek from one of english punctuation / formatting, to cryptic mediawiki template punctuation / parameters
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tantek that's one of the pitfalls of templates
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tantek they have the appearance of making something "easier" (maybe by saving 10 characters of typing?) but end up making it *harder* by raising the barrier of entry (learn one more thing - the template)
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tantek simplest citation: paste the link. done
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aaronpk i guess if the alternative is just text and the link that's easier
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tantek better: go find the date, put that in YYYY-MM-DD + link
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aaronpk but i was trying to make it look nice, or at least use <blockquote>
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tantek even better: date [link article-name]
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tantek even better: date author: [link article-name]
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tantek even better: date {{indiewebauthor}} [link article-name]
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tantek and that's it
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aaronpk i was talking about tweets where you want the actual text, not an article name
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Zegnat There is Template:citation which I have used several times over my last wiki edits. It does date/author/title/url, basically
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tantek ok, not quite it
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Zegnat Also allows for an Internet Archive link, which I have been adding to everything.
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tantek optinally add a <blockquote> to any of those
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tantek e.g. date link <blockquote>key relevant sentence(s)</blockquote
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aaronpk oh yeah https://indieweb.org/Template:citation is good
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tantek it's ok, it made up its own terms instead of re-using h-entry h-cite property names
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tantek I have enough difficulty remembering it and find the syntax awkward enough that I do the above examples instead
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tantek no template is easier than just entering: YYYY-MM-DD link
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tantek also ^^^ that's much more readable "in source", and thus easily editable etc.
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tantek that being said, use whichever way works best for you!
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tantek my point was, it's trivial to enter citations in plain text as in the examples I gave above. not rocket science.
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tantek not even computer science. :)
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tantek and I would think that "plain text citations" would appeal to the markdown crowd here
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tantek instead of learning/using another form of code (template markup)
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tantek going to capture some of this braindump on /wikify#Add_Citations (new section coming)
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tantek aaronpk,Zegnat does this help? https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Add_Citations
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aaronpk yes!
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tantek what is jargo
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jargo" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is jargon
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Loqi jargon is a specific unobvious concept, or re-use of a word to mean something other than its common meaning https://indieweb.org/jargon
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tantek and for my #2 request above, needing help directing dev-related chats from indieweb to dev,
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tantek aaronpk,zegnat,kevinmarks does this help? https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat
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aaronpk yeah that's good
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tantek what is a framework
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Loqi A framework (in this context software framework or web framework in particular) is a software library and ways of using it that provides an alternative (often simplified) way of writing software, typically explicitly instead of how you would normally write that software https://indieweb.org/framework
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tantek a few more updates to /discuss#Chat
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tantek I'm hoping that the explicit listing of specific topics (Webmention etc.) will help encourage folks to steer conversations to the right place
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tantek s/right/better
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tantek added second columns and tried to neaten up the top two sections of https://indieweb.org/discuss as well - please take a look and review
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tantek still feels like there's got to be a way to collapse those first three sections in a nice compact easy to view / use / read way, but that will take some more design thinking to figure out
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raretrack How about removing the duplication of channels in the 'Using an IRC Client' section, as they are already listed in 'Join Channels'? Something like 'Channels: choose from the list above' instead?
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tantek raretrack++ that's a good incremental suggestion
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Loqi raretrack has 1 karma
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tantek hey IRC links used to have a nice CSS graphic
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tantek of "chat"
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tantek and now they have a lame unlocked lock
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aaronpk Zegnat was experimenting with new icons for links, mainly getting rid of the lock icon for https links since that is more or less the default now
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tantek somehow the irc links were a casualty?
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aaronpk what was it before?
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Zegnat I don’t think my css targetted IRC links specifically. Odd that they would get hit
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sknebel speech bubble icon I think
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aaronpk orly
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tantek looks up an example
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tantek yeah some sort of speech bubble thingie
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aaronpk ah the new css rule for the unlock overrode the other one
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tantek here's one http://microformats.org/wiki/irc#Quick_Start
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Loqi #microformats on freenode
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aaronpk IMO i think we can just not have the unlock icon
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tantek it has helped show some unintentional http: links
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tantek like to stuff on the wiki or chat etc.
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aaronpk hm
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tantek but it should only match "http:" literally
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tantek rather than be some sort of default for all links
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aaronpk this is the selector right now: div#content a.external,div#content a[href ^="gopher://"]
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tantek wow what
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Zegnat I just copied the selectors from the default CSS, so it would overwrite it (have the same specificity)
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aaronpk not sure why gopher is in there lol
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aaronpk Zegnat: the css rule for the chat bubble is on div#content a[href ^="irc://"]
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tantek browsers dropped support for gopher: a while ago
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aaronpk so your new one overrode it
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Zegnat It also seemed to be a bit finicky with order :/ Where it tends to overwrite a lot. The order between the http and https CSS in my overwrite CSS also had to be this way.
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tantek unlock icon should only be on a[href^="http://"]
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tantek however else you want to put the rest of the style rule
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Zegnat Maybe because of how it sets an icon for all a.external by default and just overwrite that over and over for all different type of URLs.
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tantek you should limit it to that attribute selector
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tantek yeah don't override that generic default for external
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tantek that's still helpful
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Zegnat Just that attribute selector wouldn’t win the specificity war with a.external, I think, tantek
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tantek to know you're going "offsite"
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Zegnat which is the problem
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Loqi definitely
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tantek Zegnat: I didn't say "just that"
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Zegnat Maybe a.external[href^=] ...
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tantek hence "however else you want to put the rest of the style rule"
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Zegnat I didn’t do a lot of testing, just copied the theme’s default CSS and changed the images around. Feel free to reverse, I am on mobile and can’t right now
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aaronpk i'll try something hang on
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aaronpk i think i got it
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Zegnat Looks OK
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Zegnat I do like spotting non-HTTPS links. I fixed some URLs on /Microsub-spec yesterday and noticed OWFa is only available on HTTP, had expected a Google hosted thing to be on HTTPS.
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tantek wow IWC NUR 2018!
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tantek when is IndieWebCamp Nürnberg?
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Loqi what
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tantek https://www.facebook.com/events/132770784138382
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sknebel yes, was announced a few weeks(?) ago
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tantek is it on the wiki?
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tantek when is IWC 2018 Nuremberg?
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Loqi what
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sknebel yes, Joschi made the pages
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tantek when is IWC Berlin
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin 2017 is on 2017-11-04 at Contentful GmbH https://indieweb.org/IWC_Berlin
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tantek when is IWC Nuremberg
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Loqi what
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tantek when is IWC Nürnberg
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Loqi what
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tantek hmm
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tantek need to update that Berlin for 2018, and add similar redirects for Nuremberg
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tantek sorry, Berlin to 2018 *after* IWC Berlin coming up :)
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tantek uh what happened to the "redirected from" links?!?
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sknebel ?
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tantek e.g. no such link on https://indieweb.org/IWC_Berlin
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tantek which is actually a redirect to /2017/Berlin
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sknebel might be the __NOTITLE__ macro?
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tantek.com edited /2017/Berlin (-55) "remove unnecessary dupe of title" (view diff)
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tantek yes
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tantek sknebel: I thought IWC 2018 Berlin was announced too
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tantek but no https://indieweb.org/2018/Berlin
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sknebel tantek: I don't think it was, no
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tantek ah ok I was confused, I think I saw Berlin when it was Nurnberg
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tantek a while ago
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tantek hence why I was surprised about 2018 Nurnberg today
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sknebel ah
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tantek adding to /events
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tantek.com edited /Events (+742) "/* 2018 */ IWC Nuremberg" (view diff)
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tantek uh, why the diamond ring emojicon for /2018-01-01-commitments ?
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-11-01-homebrew-website-club (+417) "Topics, fix heading level, add a few" (view diff)
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tantek hmm iemoji has "Locked with Key" for "commitment" http://www.iemoji.com/view/emoji/768/objects/locked-with-key
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tantek.com edited /2018-01-01-commitments (-22) "ring seems a bit odd for this, dropping since we didn't have it last year either" (view diff)
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tantek hey what do fellow HWC organizers think about: https://indieweb.org/events/2017-11-01-homebrew-website-club#Topics
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Zegnat I will probably mostly talk about IWC, as HWC happens the evening before I leave for Berlin
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tantek aww darn
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tantek looks like the bots beat me this month
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tantek just two days left