#meta 2018-11-01

2018-11-01 UTC
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[kevinmarks] There is fisking
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@TechLifeWeb Once again thinking about resurrecting my Know site. #indieweb (https://stream.techlifeweb.com/s/uFHG6) (twitter.com/_/status/1057785201026314240)
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[tantek] fisking was the original dunking
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loqi.me edited /fisking (+31) "[tantek] added "[[dunking]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[tantek] this is kinda my point kevinmarks. "annotation" as an abstraction is kinda overly general and useless
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[tantek] a /dunking is an "annotation"
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[jgmac1106] disagree I can ask 10 people on the street what does it mean to annotate and they can all define it. I ask same people what is fisking and 0 out of 10 will know
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[jgmac1106] an annotation is simply some kind of note, mark up, or explanation added to a text for additional information
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GWG I still am trying to get consensus on any post type
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@malcolmblaney https://unicyclic.com/indieweb is great reading at the moment, but got some serious Berlin FOMO... (twitter.com/_/status/1057824024305324032)
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Zegnat [frank]: re IndieAuth-and-Mastodon, although it has rel-me verification now, because it can be selfhosted at any URL it is non-obvious to recognise a profile page as being Mastodon. Neither is it obvious how indielogin.com (or the old indieauth.com) can make use of its api for authentication. So it simply isn’t supported as a login method at this time.
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Zegnat I thought we had a discussion issue about this on either the indielogin.com or indieauth.com github repos, but I don’t see it. Might be worth documenting in case the question comes up again
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aaronpk Sounds like a good FAQ for indielogin.com anyway
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[frank] Thanks Zegnat
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-358) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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[tonz] @zegnat [frank] Are you saying that because indie-mastodon-instances are non-obvious (as opposed to centralised Github/Twitter etc) they can’t be used for indie authorisation? I get your technical point, but it is also non-obvious and self-defeating logic when indie can’t work with indie because it’s indie and only non-indie is ‘allowed’ to work with indie because ?
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aaronpk Almost
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aaronpk it’s more like twitter and github are good bridges for auto between a pure indie experience because they are widely supported
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aaronpk auth not auto
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aaronpk even better than relmeauth with mastodon would be if mastodon supported IndieAuth natively. Relmeauth is really just a middle ground before getting to a purely indie experience
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[tonz] " just a middle ground” that makes sense [aaronpk]. So to you relmeauth is ultimately a temporary thing? (Not the ‘these sites are under the same control’ part of it but the auth bit.)
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aaronpk As auth, yeah. Well maybe not temporary exactly, but certainly a less than ideal solution. There are some technical reasons I can get into about that as well, but probably a -dev conversation.
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aaronpk For that reason, it seems wrong to me to shoehorn mastodon into that role since mastodon is at least theoretically totally set up to be a completely independent thing rather than a silo.
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[tonz] yes, from what you said, that is clearer now.
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[kevinmarks] Not sure if this sounds like a good idea for the mf wiki or not https://security.googleblog.com/2018/10/introducing-recaptcha-v3-new-way-to.html
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4xGwUxU9.jpg
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loqi.me created /movim (+149) "prompted by petermolnar and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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realize.be edited /2018/Berlin/Guest_Book (+0) "Has to cancel the trip :( Will be available on IRC these days though!" (view diff)
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aaronpk :(
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petermolnar what's the plan for tomorrow lunch?
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[Vincent] [kevinmarks] Spam is a technical problem, not a user problem. CAPTCHA pushes this on to the user so it’s not a good solution IMO. In GOVUK, we side-step using it by instead using the honeypot method, combined with looking at the speed it took to complete a process. If this speed outside the average it gets flagged. At which point we can silently discard it or send an email to the user to confirm they made the change before actioning it.
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[Vincent] Not sure if you can do any of this on the MF wiki, but food for thought.
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[tantek] We've had to fight tons of different kinds of waves of spam on the microformats wiki so I'm not sure those generalizations apply
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[tantek] We've literally had to apply a defense-in-depth strategy with many barriers to spam (including a captcha) to effectively block spam down to nearly zero maintenance.
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[tantek] (which we have to do since it's all-volunteer, not paid, very low labor time available, maintenance)
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[Vincent] [tantek] ouch. Not good
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tantek.com edited /personal_cloud (+412) "Cozy not a content hosting / blog hosting service - lack of selfdogfooding" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /movim (+55) "no known indieweb examples or sites" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /selfauth (+57) "see also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /authorization-endpoint (+15) "/* Other Examples */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /authorization-endpoint (+101) "/* Open Source Authorization Endpoints */" (view diff)
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[tantek] !tell aaronpk heads-up, just volunteered you to keynote your "State of the Social Reader" talk at IndieWebCamp Berlin if you're up for it - see email with Joschi and feel free to follow-up.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk I saw, sounds good
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[tantek] (we seriously need to demo the modern Social Reader UX, especially on both mobile and desktop, as often as possible)
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[tantek] It's such an "a-ha!" moment for folks new to indieweb
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[tantek] aaronpk, I'll be getting on a plane in a few hours (up early now and packing) so I may need your help with wiki updates and such from now until Friday morning-ish (local German time)
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aaronpk okay
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www.jeremycherfas.net edited /annotation (+515) "/* Brainstorming */ Adding myself as an example." (view diff)
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[tantek] jeremycherfas++ looks good!
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Loqi jeremycherfas has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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[tonz] [aaronpk] just reading your 2015 post on Social Reader, re Twitter keyword search. What I (also) do, is hunt for patterns across collections of keyword mentions. Things like all mentioned URLs in those tweets and splitting them into blogposts / presentations / videos / journo articles / PDFs. And ranking them by number of mentions in the last 24 hours and last 7 days. Allows me to find the most talked about links, as well as hunt down hidden pot
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[tonz] number of mentions).
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aaronpk oh nice! I tried an experiment like that too but it kinda stopped working
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aaronpk also sounds kind of like https://belong.io
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[tonz] yeah, I haven’t run the script in a while (on a VPS I shut down in January and haven’t reactivated yet) so not sure if it still plays nice with what Twitter allows you to do with their API etc.
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aaronparecki.com edited /2018/Berlin/Organizers (+216) "/* What */" (view diff)
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[tonz] Good to read that 2015 posting [aaronpk], I def need to dig out my ‘info strategies’ postings from ’05 ’06 and update them for how I do things today. You link to [tantek]’s 2013 posting on people focus. That is how I always work with feeds, group them by people and by social distance to me. So that feed reading is more like walking over to everyone I know and visit the public square to catch up on the latest talk.
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[tantek] needs to get back to that people focus and iterate. What have I been doing since 2013?!?
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aaronpk heh I had that same thought last week when I realized that I had been saying I need to rename indieauth.com since 2014
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petermolnar [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (85 in all channels)
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[tonz] [tantek] I use the term ‘people centered navigation’ for how I shape my feed reading / info strategies.
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[tonz] I also tried to / like to see it apply it to real time interruptions, where it’s ok to tell me by psuh someone close to me is in the vicinity, but not to tell me 12 others also checked into a location in the past 12 hrs.
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[jgmac1106] [tonz] I organize more by topic currently https://jgregorymcverry.com/following but I don't have any cool search algorithms like you or the social graphs that [sebsel] demoed.... Getting excited
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Loqi [Laura Fleming] Thank you. I appreciate the discourse around these important topics.
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[jgmac1106] And I need to put an h-card on that page for me... But migrating anyway will fix on new site
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aaronparecki.com edited /generations (+443) "stub criticism section" (view diff)
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[tonz] [jgmac1106] organising by topic is of interest to me too. Especially I’d like to be able to tag feeds from people, not just by a single topic but by various aspects of them. So that I can filter: e.g. show me all people in the list who are Berlin based and working in UX design. Most readers only support exclusive adding to folders, and searching across postins (who’s posting about Berlin and UX design currently).
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[jgmac1106] [tonz] so many of us do checkins. I was wondering how to leverage those for feeds. Show me IndieWeb folks in 50 miles... If I built a checkin feed... Could be possible
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[tonz] btw [jgmac1106] there’s one link on your following page that renders vertically (the one to Flypaper) , at least it does in my opera browser
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[tantek] aaronpk do you know where the logos for other indieweb building blocks came from in this hex diagram? https://indieweb.org/2019/Vlissingen#Photos
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petermolnar [jgmac1106]: I still don't like checkins; instead, what I'd love to have, is an acl list of who can ask me for my current location.
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petermolnar not that i provide any sort of interface for this at the moment
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[jgmac1106] Yeah I have to fix it [tonz] it's a weird http https in the img avatar that does it... I am migrating going to look like https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/following.html
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[jgmac1106] @petermolnar I do that now but it's in my Google history, my wife and few other people can always track me
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[tonz] @petermolnar yes something like that I’d like. In general for social software/media/tools I’d like a granular layered access to my stuff. If you’re socially close to me you get to see more from me, sort of.
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petermolnar I really don't want to use google for this
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[tonz] [jgmac1106] that looks pretty nice.
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[jgmac1106] Be cool to do that with indielogin... I have a "Where in the world am I" based on your website you can see this in your feed or my site
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[jgmac1106] Thx need to do the media queries may remove cards on smaller screens
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] I think a few folks built that into their home page h-cards? As in if you logged in with your domain name and you were on their friends list, their h-card showed you more (location?) information
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[tantek] petermolnar, I see both checkins and "request my location" as useful use-cases for different sets of people
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[tantek] (I'm ok with more people seeing my checkins and a much smaller set being able to ask me for my location)
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[jgmac1106] [tonz] in a perfect world if I published a u-follow-of post it would get syndicated to my following page... Even better if I add to Aperture a Micropub client publishes the following post and syndicates to my following page
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[jgmac1106] Could we have an h-card phone book site where a user could determine what info is displayed based on url logging in?
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www.zylstra.org blog edited /2018/Berlin/Guest_Book (+373) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Inrupt (+65) "move tweets to relevant section" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /Inrupt (-34) "why would the inrupt dfn word point at a twitter thread instead of the actual homepage?" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Inrupt (+13) "/* Requested volunteer diversity */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Inrupt (+348) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2018/Berlin (+16) "/* Adjacent Events */" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Inrupt (-137) "removing criticism so it is only in the criticism subsection" (view diff)
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] I disagree with that removal because it is essential to counterbalancing the excess hype around Inrupt due to association with TimBL
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[tantek] In general dfns should have summaries of key points like that about a project / effort especially when it is something exceptional that is being ignored by the mainstream (tech) media etc.
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tantek.com edited /Inrupt (+671) "world domination inappropriate, update a woman hire as of Mozfest, criticism summary for dfn to counter press hype - Undo revision 53384 by [[Special:Contributions/Jgregorymcverry.com|Jgregorymcverry.com]] ([[User talk:Jgregorymcverry.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Finishing study of #DS106 and #IndieWeb as learning communities using comparative case study analysis and matrix analysis using Gee's Affinity Spaces as the criterion. Final phase of data reduction comes in writing itself as story unfolds. #el30… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/finishing-study-of-ds106-and-indieweb-as (twitter.com/_/status/1057995968505888768)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+217) "/* pinned posts */ another real world use-case" (view diff)
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redaktor.me edited /2018/Berlin (-12) "/* Hotels */" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 One of the major reasons #ds106 and #IndieWeb succeed is because as learning communities there is both a physical and online presence. The nodes of the network do not have hard boundaries but are more porous between our digital and physical realms #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1hcT4a) (twitter.com/_/status/1057998591548145664)
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[tantek] [jgmac1106]++ that's a very good point. Is there some way we can summarize that insight on the top of https://indieweb.org/Events ? Perhaps in a 1-2 sentence "Why" section?
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Loqi [jgmac1106] has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (70 in all channels)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ "An experiment in Thinking where we ask the students to frame their narrative on their own space and on their own way" (Groom & Burris, 2011) Another critical similarity between the #IndieWeb and #ds106 cases in the study. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/mbqPL) (twitter.com/_/status/1058005939159252993)
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@jgmac1106 In both #ds106 and #IndieWeb space is organized around a common endeavour that driven by a focus of individual goals. Groom cites Gardner's "personal cyberinfrastructure" as key design and #IndieWeb driven by idea of your own website is better than… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/in-both-ds106-and-indieweb-space-is (twitter.com/_/status/1058014090667401223)
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@Mixed_Realities More adventures while indiewebifying my site learningwithmoocs #el30 #indieweb https://learningwithmoocs.com/decentralized-web/indiewebifying-this-site/ (twitter.com/_/status/1058014298197385217)
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@jgmac1106 @johnjohnston can you get me a publication date on this: http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/in-both-ds106-and-indieweb-space-is I tried looking at source code but not too deeply. Need for citation thx. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/qwToR) (twitter.com/_/status/1058017639610699777)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Whereas #IndieWeb community has physical presence with homebrew website clubs and @indiewebcamp. Yet they had a deliberately high, but still open technical barrier to "membership" and also some unapologetic biases (shifting IMO) to specific standards… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/whereas-indieweb-community-has-physical-presence-with (twitter.com/_/status/1058021859143417856)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ For college participants, #ds106 had same tech high-bar. People who never had a website were given a domain and a CMS told to "go at it." This has historical bias of access. Similarly higher barriers of tech expertise #IndieWeb reflects cutural and… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/for-college-participants-ds106-had-same-tech (twitter.com/_/status/1058022824655360000)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ #el30 #IndieWeb really got its roots as @indiewebcamp when another conference in PDX didn't happen. Founder had helped to get barcamps going which in turn became edcamps. Homebrew website Club name super nerdy h/t to group of even older super nerdy… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/el30-indieweb-really-got-its-roots (twitter.com/_/status/1058025438679891969)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ HWCs are times to hack on personal websites, IndieWebCamps, and one is happening in Berlin this weekend, occur as two day hacking events. These physical events are paired with a virtual 24 hour chat, podcast series, and constant blogging. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/FnBgH) (twitter.com/_/status/1058026602028769280)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ That is exactly how #ds106, especially open participants operate. One key difference #ds106 can rely on formal structures of higher ed. There are buildings and paychecks, and hosting for students. #IndieWeb has no formal organization. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/FHMSK) (twitter.com/_/status/1058027066694733824)
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@jgmac1106 Though many key #IndieWeb organizers build their professional lives to help maximize involvement (myself included which is why I am doing this research). Ability to globetrot to these events come from a place of privilege but also passion. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/xRXxs) (twitter.com/_/status/1058027687560790016)
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@jgmac1106 BTW #el30 here is paper @jackjamieson and I are working on asomparative case study of #ds106 and #Indieweb I want to see website can be the only container I need. Trying to play with qual research and hashtags and formative participatory analysis as… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/btw-el30-here-is-paper-jackjamieson-and (twitter.com/_/status/1058029886118469633)
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[jgmac1106] forgot about that wish there was a way for me to mute myself for an hour or so...using the hashtags for my own alaysis later...sorry for the bacon
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[jgmac1106] because nothing I write is spam
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[jgmac1106] SWEET organizer meeting in afternoon....don't have to time shift a ton
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eddiehinkle.com edited /2018/Berlin/Organizers (+22) "/* Remote Participation */ +me" (view diff)
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redaktor.me edited /2019/Vlissingen (+46) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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pflug.email edited /Inrupt (+141) "Adding citation" (view diff)
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@edugeekjournal Modernizing Websites: html5, Indieweb, and More? http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2018/11/01/modernizing-websites-html5-indieweb-and-more/ (twitter.com/_/status/1058079841688391682)
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@jgmac1106 @edugeekjournal welcome to the #IndieWeb. I dream of a world where our professional organizations said good by to listservee or didn't rely of private social media groups. If you want folks to give your theme a once over stop by the WordPress room… http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/01/edugeekjournal-welcome-to-the-indieweb-i-dream (twitter.com/_/status/1058085485023846401)
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gregorlove.com edited /nicknames-cache (+89) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ subheadings, update p3k section link" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /2018/Berlin/Organizers (+28) "/* RSVP */ $me: clarify that for main event, won't be at lunch" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2018/Berlin/Organizers (+77) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2018/Berlin/Organizers (+1) "/* RSVP */ Not only is it likely I will make it to Berlin, I might even make it to lunch!" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /petname (+178) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
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@hiperterminal ↩️ @Wilsofo @Vi_Simon Como decía acá: hay que apoyar la #indieweb http://a.nomono.co/fs (twitter.com/_/status/1058120066301075456)
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