www.svenknebel.deedited /Template:sparkline (-16) "remove u-photo class. template is only used in contexts where it can be implied, and it stops implied url from happening" (view diff)
benwerd, jackjamieson and [Vincent] joined the channel
[Vincent][jgmac1106] I like that idea. Getting setup is quite hard if you haven’t done it before. Splitting it up in to allows you to engage at your own pace.
[jgmac1106]what I am thinking as well. [tantek] already noted the page length. i think it's a good break point. Glad the redone page helped you figure everything out
jgmac1106I didn;t know ABC was a thing, just kept seeing it and asked for more diversity, then I saw it has been ahistorical inequity for a long time, as pages come up I keep th ABC but use mroe diverse names
jgmac1106Be coool script for someone to write someday, if A,B,C found on a page replace A=$name, B=$name, C=$name and have a database of names that can be weighted for diversity and inclusion
[tantek]Point being, picking names that work better for each example can be done and be more inclusive, simultaneously, but requires human (cognitive) effort.
[tantek]Using (seemingly) random non-Anglo names kinda devalues them and may even appear to be a form of superficial tokenism. Please read the alicebob.pdf article I linked.
[tantek]sure, not sure I would use a religious tale either, however the choice of names with first letters as mnemonics (S for Sender, R for Receiver) made sense
jgmac1106would you have a dynamic system that would match a name to what the”sender” is in the default language choice of browser….not that I could do that
[tantek][jgmac1106] re: "a dynamic system that would match a name to what the”sender” is in the default language choice of browser" no - language choice of browser is not the match here - but rather the language of the spec.
[jgmac1106]i think that is over thinking it, its just a real life example with people, the reader is supposed to envision the exchange IRL and not worry as much about the spec..but I don't read specs for a living so I could be over simplifying
[tantek]such examples are there to serve a better understanding of the spec, so yes, that's quite essential and shouldn't be dismissed (re: don't read specs for a living)
[jgmac1106]but went A, B, C chosen as a cue of 1,23rd...so do you lost that...no I guess you are right you gain more context, if there are more actions.... a normal reader won't remember that many mnemonic connections IMO don't think the +- 7 rule will hold up here
[tantek][jgmac1106] I noticed in your edit to /welcoming that you kept the 1 "male" 1 "female" name distribution, whether intentionally or not. I'm wondering if there's perhaps a positive step to be taken by using all "female" names when there are 2-3 folks interacting for a protocol. A protocol Bechdel's test of sorts. In addition, for any diminutive/introductory/teaching usage (e.g. welcome new person), I'm wondering if it would be better to use a m
[tantek]It started with your edit to the welcoming page, but then we discussed in vHWC EU the implications of using people names in examples for all sorts of things, and thus the research into previous thoughts on culture, gender etc.
[tantek]I think that's even harder to keep track of, and once again, loses the potential for a mnemonic connection between first letters of names and protocol roles
[eddie]I think functional names definitely help. I can see it being helpful to tie it in with protocol, I could also see a more user-friendly role association to be less technical
[eddie]For example: You could so S for Source and T for Target (Sally sends a webmention to Tony), but I could also see Sender and Reciever so you could have Salley sends a webmention to Roger
[eddie]I definitely think linking it to the functional role is helpful. I can see arguments for and against using exact protocol names vs. more user friendly roles depending on your target audience
[tantek]in the case of webmention, the challenge is that as part of verification etc., even the target acts as a "sender", sending an http request to the source
[eddie]Now that said, if we have onboarding tutorials for an audience that just wants to understand things and we use the Post Author, Comment Author, Like Author, etc. Then on the in-depth pages with the more protocol/dev audience, then using the different names there would work
[eddie]But You would want to give the onboarding tutorials a bit of a different look using CSS so it is obviously not just another "standard wiki page"
[schmarty] something like 3pm PST on Friday
[jgmac1106] okay thx....
tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2018-332-hwc-sf.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2018-332-hwc-sf.jpg"
jgregorymcverry.com edited /events/2018-11-28-homebrew-website-club (+287) "/* Photos */ added new haven photos" (view diff)
kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-474) "update from /Events" (view diff)
[tantek] [jgmac1106] did you follow the discussion about names in examples? did you see http://cryptocouple.com/#cultural-interpretations-of-alice-and-bob and https://web.archive.org/web/20131205064820/https://profpartha.webs.com/publications/alicebob.pdf Thoughts? I'd like to have some sort of actual methodology here that could scale to multiple participants instead of one-off fixes from organizers etc.