#meta 2020-04-26
2020-04-26 UTC
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tantek.com edited /watch (+920) "Brainstorming, additional how-to with example, subheads for brainstorming ideas, add ▶ as an option" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com created /2020/Pop-ups/GardenAndStream (+19458) "session details, videos, and notes from etherpad; still have some formatting to do..." (view diff)
# boffosocko.com created /2020/Pop-ups/Schedule (+1893) "Schedule stub with details for The Garden and the Stream" (view diff)
# boffosocko.com created /2020/Pop-ups (+3303) "IWC Pop-ups page; meant to roughly mimic broader camp pages so we can capture individual sessions in roughly the same standardized manner as in the past" (view diff)
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# boffosocko.com deleted /events/2020-04-25-garden-and-the-stream "Author request: content was moved to a better canonical page path"
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[chrisaldrich] or is that meant to be the other way around?
# [chrisaldrich] what is manual until it hurts?
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Loqi manual until it hurts is an indieweb principle of resisting automation until you have done it enough times to really understand it, and know that it is worth doing https://indieweb.org/manual_until_it_hurts
# boffosocko.com edited /2020/Pop-ups/GardenAndStream (+183) "/* See Also */ Additional notes by h0p3" (view diff)
# boffosocko.com created /2020/Pop-up/Sessions (+513) "stub for future session proposals" (view diff)
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# tantek.com edited /watch (+38) "/* Tantek */ newest example is in reply to a video post" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /2020/Pop-ups/GardenAndStream (+469) "/* Participants */ adding jgmac1106 links" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] indier +1 to what aaronpk said in Accra we have decided to mainly use What's App now, I am so opposed to facebook but meeting needs of community more important
# [jgmac1106] If you want to organize a remote meetup takes you and another person, many people share your philosophy and you may have people attend. Give it a whirl
# [jgmac1106] on video.etherpad.org a committment was made to keep servers running 3 years after covid-19 (for the pads I do not think the video stores)
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aaronparecki.com edited /discuss (-23) "/* Read Discussions */ drop "log" since it's redundant and you can also join the chat from that link too" (view diff)
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indier Hello, copy of question on wrong channel by mistatke: A question about the online homebrew web site clubs. Anyone tried MIT 'unhangouts' web conference?
# indier > jgmac1106: what are these needs that mandate whatsapp?
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jeremycherfas From # chat -> wiki gardening is something I am conscious of, because I try to garden my personal zettelkasten once a week, and I do it by weeding the 10 most recent pages and the 10 oldest pages. I would definitely tackle wiki gardening if, for example, I could summon a list of the 10 pages that have the most ancient edits. That way, I'm not simply chasing my own preferences.
# [jgmac1106] indier "that everyone in our OER community right now uses whatsapp, been the most reliable way to get info out in a time when local network very strained"
# [jgmac1106] indier and I have used unhangouts multiple times but not in a few, maybe >5 years
# jeremycherfas Of course, gardening too has its tastes and fashions and styles. My exuberant herbaceous border is your unholy mess.
# [jgmac1106] we set everyone up with riot and matrix, but people talk on WhatsApp and meet on Google Hangouts...network conditions now though we organize on WhatsApp and will meet on etherpads, making small screencast videos available ahead of time to download both through torrents and file link
# [jgmac1106] jeremycherfas mine is coalescing now that I have started a wiki...tried so many things....my gardening works..rss that quickly becomes overgrown wetlands seaping with life....but too dangerous to wade into and not catch malaria
# jeremycherfas Block that metaphor!
# indier Excuse my ignorance of the context and your histories, but presumably OER (assuming we refer open educational resources) is about trying to achieve change?
# [jgmac1106] yes it is if you want to learn more goifnetwork.org and goifoundation.com
# [jgmac1106] What is OER?
# Loqi OER is an acronym for open educational resources which are educational resources, including courses, lessons, and other media or materials used for learning purposes https://indieweb.org/OER
# indier The old "feed a human fish, teach a human how" comes to mind...
# [jgmac1106] everyone who is in our network gets a personal website and we have shared wiki...
# [jgmac1106] I think it is more important to make them yearn for them to yearn for the see more than learning to fish
# [jgmac1106] yearn for sea*
# [jgmac1106] I tried a matrix chat, people don't want to download clients. data very expensive in Ghana, they are already on WhatsApp, me the white guy coming in from US saying "stop that WhatsApp its not FOSS" is the exact opposite goal I have in "aheieving change"
# indier If people are set up with matrix (side question: were the recipients given, or taught?), then used proprietary, then there is a strategic problem
# [jgmac1106] if you have better ideas on starting and spreading OER networks in West Afroca built on indie websites please jump in and help out...
# indier Agreed. FOSS needs to be on the ground. Whatsapp was downloaded on relatively poor local network or obtained pre-installed on pre-owned equipment?
# [jgmac1106] demanding a preexisting community adhere to your communication protocols isn't the best approach IMO, if you share the values and ethos have as many onboarding channels possible
# [jgmac1106] they already have it is how they do 90% of all mobile communication hey did this link work for you: https://video.etherpad.com/p/testpad
# indier Am ignorant, but initiatives such as tessa (http://www.tessafrica.net/) have been around a while
# [jgmac1106] no need to qualify a resource with your lack of knowledge you seem well versed, this is with [Sadik_Shahadu] he is a friend, always more space to help.
# indier Yes, new link successful, but the webrtc plugin?
# [jgmac1106] if you have better ideas for organizing HWC please start them up. I have to get back to work
# indier Then need to go back a step and ask a stupid question: what is the goal?
# [jgmac1106] I also have a Pro Google Meet Account I make available to any community member to use is you disagree with Zoom, Google privacy/security for G Suite accounts pretty good, IMO but I do have to go. We publish our goals for the Global Open Initiative Foundation on our webiste, welcome to check those out as well
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# indier So far (again, important to remind, no prior knowledge), it seems that indieweb is about diversity, or as the perl man says "more than one way to do it"
# indier OK bye
# indier What was trying to be achieved in Ghana
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trying to be achieved in Ghana" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "trying to be achieved in Ghana is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# indier If data ownership and identity is important, it's useful to explain why. Simple analogy. A company office was to be "green" and puts recyling bins everywhere for the staff to use. Cleaners come and dump into non-recyclable section: point understood
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aaronpk i will just leave this link here again https://indieweb.org/why
# indier Yes, reading it in another tab :)
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# aaronpk haha "ancient pages" https://indieweb.org/Special:AncientPages
# jeremycherfas Oh boy! For knowing where to look, Aaronpk++
# indier Anyone aware of Neocities and Hubzilla? Compatible with Indieweb?
# jeremycherfas I figure people do the new stuff as it is created, no?
# Loqi NeoCities is a free website hosting silo in the spirit of defunct silo GeoCities (Yahoo shutdown in 2009) that looks like a stepping stone to getting started on the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/NeoCities
# jeremycherfas I can say right now that I will not be attempting any gardening on pages about named people!
# indier Thanks for the wiki: https://indieweb.org/HubZilla :)
# jeremycherfas However, I immediately run into problems. What is XRDS?
# jeremycherfas What is XRDS
# jeremycherfas Thanks Loqi Now, does anyone -- tantek? -- care whether that page continues to exist?
# aaronpk i'm just gonna redirect that to /Webfinger
# jeremycherfas You could say, and many people do, that storage is cheap.
# jeremycherfas It already says see webfinger.
# jeremycherfas Aaronpk++
# jeremycherfas Absolutely fascinating digging in the ancient dirt. E.g., we still don't have good positives rather than non-negatives. Or do we?
# jeremycherfas I propose that a wiki sysop delete /distributed_social_network
# www.jeremycherfas.net edited /NASCAR_problem (+55) "/* See Also */ Removing link to internal page, which is effectively a redirect." (view diff)
# jeremycherfas is beginning to think that the weeds win. They have such deep tap roots.
# jeremycherfas Another example: the potentially valuable link on /user-profile gives a 404. Internet Archive dutifully captures that. And an earlier capture is empty. So, what's the value of the page?
# aaronparecki.com edited /payment (+720) "/* Brainstorming */ payment request post type" (view diff)
# jeremycherfas And /note-post too
# jeremycherfas I think all you said ()on that page) was that it hadn't been mentioned.
# aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:square-cash-request.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:square-cash-request.png"
# jeremycherfas That's definitely my plan, to ask. Or, at the very least, to draw attention to pages here.
# jeremycherfas Tantek, you're doing that thing again, where you say something is dogma, and there's little room for discussion.
# jeremycherfas To be continued.
# jeremycherfas You're welcome.
# indier Hello. Reading this via a web browser, the recent history seems to have disappeared (i.e. my recent posts). Is this normal, designed behaviour?
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# jeremycherfas Are you at https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2020-04-26 ? The whole day's entries are there for me.
# jeremycherfas And I see a message from you at, for example, https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2020-04-26/1587917577730900
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# indier Maybe some problem with the web browser; thanks. If the wiki is understood, the chat log disappears? Although the wiki explains the decision about mailing lis, it is not understood the reason not to keep anything; or is this an error in understanding?
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[KevinMarks] What is discovery?
# Loqi Discovery is a variety of methods for finding content, websites, communities, or people to follow on the web including search, directories, recommendation engines, tags, or other serendipitous methods https://indieweb.org/discovery
# [KevinMarks] I think the definition accurately captures that no one had thought much about XRDS in ten years
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