#meta 2020-05-05

2020-05-05 UTC
strugee and [jgarber] joined the channel
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[jgarber]
Whoa, I had no idea that was a thing. Awesome!
strugee, [KevinMarks], nickodd, [fluffy], [Ramiro_Ruiz], jjuran, gRegorLove, Naptra, Ruxton, [LewisCowles], swentel, jeremych_, [Arne], jjuran_, jacky, [schmarty], swentie, jolvera, [jgarber] and [tantek] joined the channel
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sknebel
jeremycherfas: did you get Zoom credentials?
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jeremycherfas
Not yet. Haven't asked.
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jeremycherfas
!tell aaronpk can I have Zoom credentials for a room tomorrow for WithKnown, 18:00-19:00 CEST?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
jeremycherfas: what's a good email? I can add you to our 1password account
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Loqi
aaronpk: jeremycherfas left you a message 4 minutes ago: can I have Zoom credentials for a room tomorrow for WithKnown, 18:00-19:00 CEST?
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jeremycherfas
The one in my h-card! At least, the h-card on individual posts.
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aaronpk
jeremycherfas: you now have access to the "video" vault
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jeremycherfas
Just looking around.
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jeremycherfas
A bit confused because I already have a non-subscription 1password account.
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jeremycherfas
Very cool; thanks. So I can use any of the rooms. I will liaise with calum.
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jeremycherfas
Is there any advantage to me copying my previous passwords into the private section of the IndieWeb vault?
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aaronpk
no, better not to do that
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aaronpk
keep the indieweb vault just for organization stuff
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jeremycherfas
So how do I get to the indie vault on my phone?
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aaronpk
the little rainbow icon in the top corner
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jeremycherfas
I don't have that, probably because I am not a subscription member.
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jeremycherfas
Yeah, the only account I have is the indie one.
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jeremycherfas
Ah, but, I signed in with the Indie account and now I have the rainbow thing and I was able to get to my vaults. So, all good.
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boffosocko.com
edited /Hugo (+123) "Articles: 2020-04-01 To the Un-Known! How I moved from Known to Hugo"
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jacky
how opposed are we to having something like https://docs.indieweb.org that can serve/hold landing pages for more 'refined' forms/data and using the wiki for persistent / documented discussion on concepts?
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jacky
or even using the /talk pages to handle more of the extra discussion that happens on the pages for the wiki
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jacky
my question is coming from a want to have the wiki present more of a 'unified, singular-ish' voice as well as being something more of a resource versus a notepad
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aaronpk
it's come up a few times
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aaronpk
i'm super in support of that idea
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aaronpk
(the idea of a separate website with more tutorial-like content that is)
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jacky
hm alright. what are some hard constraints for a site like that?
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aaronpk
tho i was thinking more focusing on content for developers
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jacky
oh like a guides/cookbook kind of site?
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jacky
yeah that's what I'm leaning towards to
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aaronpk
the webmention tutorial i wrote was an attempt at that style of content
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jacky
or even having more pages be like "[dfn] -> [potential dependencies] -> [smallest MVP] -> [link to pages with more detailed examples]"
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aaronpk
oh gosh what's going on with my css
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Sending your First Webmention from Scratch
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jacky
ah I was just searching for it
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[tantek]
it's come up multiple times. jacky the problem is not a (sub)domain or navigation, the problem is "more refined" is hard work
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aaronpk
i've been meaning to create an outline of what i'm imagining goes there
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aaronpk
the content is the challenge, not the domain or which tool to use
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[tantek]
and planning something around requiring hard work from a volunteer community usually means you get "crickets", or worse, domination by only 1-2 people and their personal viewpoint
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jacky
I know - I used the domain to encourage a 'greenfield' versus having to handle with existing work / interrupting the current wiki
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jacky
[tantek]: ha, if that isn't the truth, I don't know what is
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[tantek]
jacky, the prior response to that"greenfield" is that your own User: page and / subpages are a greenfield to work on anything like that you want! a few people have and have eventually brought forth like brand new WordPress Tutorials and such
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jacky
I do think having individual pages that are interactive-ish like your post are needed tho just to demonstrate but having more detail when needed (linking out ideally)
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sknebel
jacky: you know about calumryan's https://indiewebguides.org/
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jacky
I did not
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jacky
what are guides
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "guides" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "guides is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky
oh it reminds me of csstricks a bit
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Loqi
Self-hosting overview
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[tantek]
ah that's the other failure mode (after crickets, narrow domination), rapidly becoming out of date, because the bar to maintain "more refined" is even *higher* than creating it in the first place (per jacky's observation that a "greenfield" helps with creation)
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jacky
okay I think I might experiment with something over the next few days (still have a bit of a backlog)
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jacky
well the 'docs' page would also double as a implementation of what's defined in the docs
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jacky
s/the docs/the wiki/g
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jacky
like I was thinking of a series of pages like aaron's post tbh
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jacky
I _know_ indiewebify.me _can_ do this
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jacky
but I don't want to introduce/enforce my thoughts on the site tbh
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aaronpk
i'd love to take a look at what you're thinking, so an easy way to start is making sub-pages under your wiki user page with rough outlines of the content and structure
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[tantek]
what are tutorials
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Loqi
Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page and other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Tutorials
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jacky
totally
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jacky
alright
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jacky
I'll document it ;)
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aaronpk
oh another thing i wrote up the other day is something i'd like to fit into this somehow: https://indieweb.org/Webmention-brainstorming#receiving_webmentions_for_syndicated_copies
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aaronpk
obviously nicer formatting and with some better examples
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aaronpk
but that's written with a particular use case in mind, and the target audience is a particular kind of developer
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[tantek]
also note these are guides for *developers* that y'all are talking about
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aaronpk
yeah i'm specifically talking about content for developers
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[tantek]
that has other aspects that make separation desirable too, a lot of previous requests for separate docs has been focused on users
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[tantek]
like if you're looking at it from a subdomain perspective, dev.indieweb makes more sense IMO than docs.indieweb for that purpose. note we already have spec.indieweb and that does serve a very narrow purpose (which also makes it easier to keep timeless / updated)
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jacky.wtf
edited /User:Jacky.wtf (+1029) "/* Itches */ add notes on a guide"
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jacky
tear it up, critique it down/up, whichever way
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[tantek]
Oooh I really like this description *and* I feel like this is a high level vision for where IndieWebify should go / evolve
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[tantek]
(something we haven't had since the original folks who worked on it disappeared)
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[tantek]
Well said: "The goal of the page is allow people (namely developers or code-friendly people) to "tinker" on their site in real-time and get immediate feedback."
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[tantek]
I think that would be exceptionally powerful
[LewisCowles], strugee, [KevinMarks], [chrisaldrich] and [benatwork] joined the channel
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[tantek]
jacky, were you thinking something like these guides? https://www.smashingmagazine.com/guides/
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jacky
just got back from lunch
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jacky
yeah! like with the 'high-level' terms (rel-me, indieauth, webmention, etc) and pages under it
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www.lewiscowles.co.uk
edited /GitHub (+87) "/* Self-hosted alternatives */"
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gregorlove.com
edited /GitHub (+423) "/* Features */ unlimited public and private repositories, inline citation"
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[tantek]
jacky, do you think we could come up with (2-4?) grouping categories like Smashing has? I mean if there are natural clusters to express
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jacky
I do!
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[KevinMarks]
Indiewebify.me is good at staged teaching, and webmention.rocks is too, but at slightly different dev levels
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[tantek]
I like the idea of restructuring (and expanding) IndieWebify features along the lines that jacky is thinking
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aaronpk
it does seem like a natural extension of that
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boffosocko.com
edited /book (+291) "Joel Dueck example of a dual web/printed-book publishing using Pollen, LaTeX, Quad, etc."
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boffosocko.com
edited /read (+128) "/* Other Examples */ Alex Chan personal library"
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[fluffy]
Has there been any more talks about IndieWeb Summit’s future? My understanding is that Oregon’s following the same (or very similar) social distancing easing schedule as Washington State, and even the most aggressive/optimistic end of that would exclude Indieweb Summit from happening as an in-person event at the end of June.
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aaronpk
we decided on friday to cancel it, and do some sort of virtual event around the same time instead. so far just updated the event page, i still need to go around to the rest of the sites to update that
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[fluffy]
Ah, okay. So I should cancel my train and AirBnB then.
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aaronpk
yes :(
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[tantek]
yeah sorry about that. was hoping the announcement in the newsletter of it being canceled would make it out to folks
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[fluffy]
I, uh, don’t read the newsletter very often. 🙂 Any chance an email could be sent out to everyone who registered? Also what about refunds for the various registration fees?
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aaronpk
yes and yes
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[fluffy]
oh god, amtrak wants to charge me a cancellation fee, AND only provide it as a voucher for a future trip 😐
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aaronpk
a cancellation fee?? that's BS
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[fluffy]
yeah I’m gonna contact customer support on this
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jacky
[KevinMarks]: I disagree that indiewebify.me is good at that
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jacky
like it works
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aaronpk
most of the airlines i've cancelled with so far have only given me travel vouchers, but extended the time the credit can be used. I haven't felt like fighting back on that
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jacky
but I don't know if it's good
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jacky
that's a strong opinion from me tho
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jacky
and I'd rather make something versus discuss it because it's easier to diff that than opinions
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[fluffy]
ah, “If you want to cancel your reservation with no fee, you must call 1-800-USA-RAIL and speak with an agent (not available via Amtrak.com or the app).” well that’s accessible 😛 but whatever
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[fluffy]
ugh they still charged a cancellation fee. now on the phone with them AGAIN
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[fluffy]
anyway moving this over to #indieweb-chat