#meta 2020-05-30

2020-05-30 UTC
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GWG I've been thinking about that tagline.
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GWG "Two days with independent web creators of all kinds, graphic artists, designers, UX engineers, coders, hackers; meeting up online to share ideas, create & improve their personal websites, and build upon each others creations."
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GWG Haven't we sort of emphasized that you can not be a graphic artist, designer, UX engineer, coder, or hacker?
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GWG We keep reusing that text. Wondering if it should emphasize...or just want a website
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gregorlove.com edited /2020/West (+183) "some h-event mf2" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /IWC_West_Coast (+22) "prompted by gRegorLove and redirect added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (+151) "/* 2020 */ London, online West Coast" (view diff)
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gRegorLove iirc we wanted to emphasize didn't have to be a developer, so those were put last. It's been a while since we revisited it, though. I thought "blogger" was in there, but maybe that was some HWC descriptions
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gRegorLove yeah, from NYC meetups "IndieWeb Meetup NYC is a meetup for anyone interested in personal websites and a distributed web. Whether you’re a blogger, coder, designer, or just someone who wants to improve their presence on the web, this meetup is for you."
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gRegorLove also "All skill and experience levels welcome."
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GWG gRegorLove: Think it is worth changing?
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gRegorLove that'd be up to the organizers ;)
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GWG Which is so far 50% me.
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West (+74) (view diff)
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GWG Will try that
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[chrisaldrich] sgtm
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[John_Payne] ↩️ going to micro.blog hosted blog I get:
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[John_Payne] You tried to sign in as
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[John_Payne] https://threadreaderapp.com/https://threadreaderapp.com/twitter@jpayne.sackheads.org but you are signed in as @jpayne.
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@isellsoap ↩️ created microdotblog account (still figuring out how it fits to me though). Generally the ideas and ideals behind #indieweb grow on me stronger and stronger by the day. (2/2) (twitter.com/_/status/1266618710585819136)
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@rMdes_ Can't wait for Known to have a "reader" built-in so I can use it with Indigenous micropub/microsub app #indieweb (https://blog.rmendes.net/s/zEdP8) (twitter.com/_/status/1266708427625172995)
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[chrisaldrich] I'm appreciating the fact that the way WordCamps online have been being done, even if one wakes up late and misses sessions the live streams can be rewound to play a bit of catchup.
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[chrisaldrich] An example: WordCamp Kent (Ohio) is on a lunch break, but I can go back to the opening remarks in the youtube stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPWcYVuqEc&feature=emb_logo
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, aaronpk: is this a possibility for 2020/West if we're Zooming it?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: We've never fed our Online events into a Livestream, but there is nothing that says we can't
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GWG Of course, remember that we aren't using YouTube right now
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[chrisaldrich] GWG it seems like we'd done this before with streams to YouTube, but I don't know if we'd done this.
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GWG I defer to aaronpk as a professional streamer
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aaronpk i could see posting a recorded version of the opening remarks shortly after they air
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aaronpk doing the actual live replay of the stream like youtube would be something i’d haven’t on look into
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aaronpk i’d have to
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aaronpk wow autocorrect ate that one up
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aaronpk also the stupid autocomplete bar covers the text area on my irc client on this ipad
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[chrisaldrich] Mostly I'm thinking about it because I woke up late and feel bad I missed chunks of Kent and I'm glad I can catch up on the morning while they're having lunch.
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aaronpk we could also decide to stream to youtube again
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aaronpk personally i feel lesss bad about streaming to youtube compared to posting our archived videos on youtube
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GWG aaronpk: Streams usually get auto archived though
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[chrisaldrich] they could be deleted though after streaming though, no?
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GWG Either way, Zoom has YouTube integration, I believe
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GWG So it should be easy enough
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[chrisaldrich] For people at home watching live or close to live it would be nice if they can walk away to take care of various things, pause and still catch up quickly if necessary.
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aaronpk right, we could use youtube for streaming and recent replay, then archive them to archive.org and delete from youtube after
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aaronpk i should look at how to set up zoom->youtube streaming
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Loqi totally
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GWG Wonder if that means we can do registration and only give registered people the Zoom password
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk, if you do find something that seems simple enough, let me know and I'll write up some details about the benefits and some copy to feature it for attendees before and day of.
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GWG My goal is to try new things and iterate on the online format
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aaronpk it’s built in to zoom somehow i just have to figure out how to enable it
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West (+661) "zoom lunch ideas; brainstorming" (view diff)
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Zegnat as I have said before I am a big fan of YouTube streams, so if I can assist I am happy to. I think that whatever problems it may have as a longterm platform or as a sole platform of people’s content, these platforms have some of the most accessible streaming solutions around. If you want to give people easy access, having different quality encodings for different bandwidths is huge.
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West (+1451) "Remote participation stub; possible pre-event "tech session"" (view diff)
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aaronpk we can do our own encoding of multiple bitrate streams too, it just requires a very expensive computer
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Zegnat aaronpk: yeah, I understand that technically nothing is stopping anyone from doing it. It is just that YouTube (or Twitch, if one is lucky) has handled that huge headache of live reencoding for you
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boffosocko.com edited /to-do (+123) "demo category to add past demo sessions to the demo page" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] we could use https://ds106.tv/ Jim and Tim would let us
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West (+1077) "participation section stub" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] it is open really for anyone to use, just need to ask for the keys: https://ds106.tv/howto/
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: that looks like what i set up for our last indiewebcamp stream in austin
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aaronpk i don't see any mention there of being able to play back past streams there
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[jgmac1106] yeah we use it for conferences a lot, how we did KarOERokee at #oer20 just plugged in ZOOM though OBS
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[jgmac1106] i dunno, never tried it, I just stream to the radio channel
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[jgmac1106] do rememeber people in Berlin not comfortable with likenesses on YouTube but I did not hear as much at IWC last year
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[jgmac1106] but we used Twitch didn't we?
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West (+125) "posts; previously" (view diff)
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Zegnat Twitch doesn’t (or at least didn’t) guarantee reencoding. That IMO takes away a lot of the argument. If it does not reencode for you, maybe we can have a stream on own hardware
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aaronpk yeah twitch only reencodes after you qualify for some stuff
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aaronpk plus they force the viewer to watch a 15+ second ad at the beginning
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Zegnat Used to be a costs concern. But I am not sure if they may be changing that, being owned by Amazon and all that
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aaronpk we should document this on the wiki so we stop repeating this conversation
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Zegnat I find Twitch to be great for community reasons, I spent a lot of time on Twitch previously. But for generic streaming of things..?
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Zegnat what is streaming?
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Loqi streaming is a method of content delivery where the user starts viewing a post on a site, typically timed media, and when it finishes, the site may automatically start showing another, either by scrolling or playing https://indieweb.org/streaming
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aaronpk wat
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aaronpk i disagree with that definition
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Zegnat Ah
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Zegnat What is live streaming?
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Loqi live streaming is the practice of streaming media (mostly audio or video) live as the captured event is happening https://indieweb.org/live_streaming
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[jgmac1106] aaronpk archive happens some howhttps://ds106.tv/archives/
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Zegnat Honestly when I hear someone say “streaming” these days I think of what “live streaming” describes on the wiki
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aaronpk i just don't think "may automatically start showing another" is part of streaming
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Zegnat That is also not what all the examples do?
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Zegnat Unless Spotify changed how they work recently
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aaronpk also you can disable auto-play on youtube and netflix
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aaronpk i'm just going to remove that
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aaronparecki.com edited /streaming (-73) "auto-play is not a core feature of streaming" (view diff)
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Zegnat Do not browser’s have build in streaming now, even for just <video> and <audio> elements? I am still not sure what that wiki page is actually trying to document :/
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Zegnat Thanks for fixing the live streaming link, aaronpk!
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Zegnat aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 64 karma in this channel over the last year (220 in all channels)
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aaronpk i think that page is actually documenting something different than "streaming"
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aaronpk if you look at the services and projects mentioned
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Zegnat It documents … online media platforms?
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aaronpk something like that
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aaronpk i guess i have heard those called "streaming services"
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Zegnat I personally would never refer to YouTube or Netflix as a streaming platform though, at least not today, that term feels completely overtaken by Twitch/Mixer/etc
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Zegnat I may have refered to Spotify as a streaming service, as in “music streaming trumps piracy”
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aaronparecki.com edited /live (-130) "Redirected page to [[live streaming]]" (view diff)
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GWG So, what is the consensus? Zoom + YouTube stream, archive to Archive.org?
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aaronparecki.com edited /live_streaming (+463) "add some more examples" (view diff)
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aaronpk i think that's the best option
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aaronpk ok zoom -> youtube is super easy to set up, just did it
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sknebel "streaming" probably needs the equivalent of a disambiguation page
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aaronpk oh cool custom RTMP streaming is easy on zoom too
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[chrisaldrich] Another side benefit of posting to YouTube (at least emporarily) is that the'll process the video and do an auto-closed caption of the video which we should be able to strip out and use to provide a transcript.
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aaronpk those are...not great. they require a lot of cleanup
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[LewisCowles] I understand we don't have a page for formatting.
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[LewisCowles] they are all related to formatting, but I am uncertain if there is a better place for such information?
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[LewisCowles] Something came up and I'd like to put some links into the wiki https://adrianroselli.com/2016/06/on-link-underlines.html
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West (+1286) "sponsors; session proposals" (view diff)
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Zegnat What is accessibility?
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Loqi Accessibility is the practice of designing so that people with disabilities can have equal access to information and functionality, applicable to both websites as well as physical environments https://indieweb.org/accessibility
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Zegnat What is usability?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "usability" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "usability is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat The accessbility page has several links to stuff about colours and texts, I think.
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boffosocko.com created /2020/West/Proposals (+3619) "stub page geared towards first-time participants" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West () "(-2552) moved brainstorming section to 2020/West/Planning" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com created /2020/West/Planning (+2594) "stub page with content from 2020/West" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] GWG outside of the events.indieweb RSVP page should we provide other methods (especially non-indieweb members) to RSVP and/or collect email addresses so we can send out reminders?
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[chrisaldrich] Do we want to create a https://2020.indieweb.org/ like page and/or use Tito or something similar?
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[jgmac1106] gwg, schmarty on another note IWC NYC....Is late Sept/Oct too early.....any later and things could get to Wintery
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[schmarty] uh, we're talking virtual, right?
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GWG The advantage of registration is?
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aaronpk being able to send out reminders
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aaronpk and an explicit step to agree to the code of conduct
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[jgmac1106] perfect, just wanted to know what people were thinking Sept wise, leaning same way, especially if virus spikes again in fall
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[jgmac1106] yeah I would still make the ti.to tickets, third reason is donations
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[jgmac1106] just this is when usually have to start negotiating dates, we just got out plan for the fall, they made up a term HyFlex
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[jgmac1106] nobody allowed back on campus after Thanksgiving, any f2f must be able to shift to online instantly, and faulty given choice if they want to teach on the ground
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GWG And we can share the Zoom link that way too
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GWG It also has some positive benefits to people having to think about coming
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GWG Re IWC NYC, if it's all remote, do we want to brand it East?
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GWG I think branding online only IWCs by timezone might make sense
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[jgmac1106] we have time, on that gwg I just wanted to see what folks were thinking
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[schmarty] there's a lot to the east of NYC
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GWG [schmarty]: That's IWC Europe?
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[jgmac1106] did your know the fartherst place east and West in US are both in Alaska
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[schmarty] "US East"
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[schmarty] would be a reasonably disambiguated name for me
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GWG Yes, I was more asking if we want to expand from just NYC...
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[schmarty] i think it makes sense to try
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[jgmac1106] works for me and late Sept works as a good distance in time from IWC West
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[jgmac1106] If anyone would like to get involved as a mentor Elm City Webmakers is forking into a free remote summer tech camp for teens: https://jgregorymcverry.com/tech4teens
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[jgmac1106] so IWC New Haven will be a bit different in the fall, 100% will be remote but I want it organized by youth
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@jjdelc So many screenshots of notes apps for longer form content. They don't own a place to express themselves to call my own. The peep hole they are allowed to use makes them believe this good for their content #indieweb #pose https://jj.isgeek.net/2020/05/30-182514/ (twitter.com/_/status/1266797842615668739)
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GWG [jgmac1106]: As your attendee last year, I am pleased to hear it
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GWG I am glad we are moving forward with new IWCs in general
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@ChrisAldrich I RSVP'd YES to IndieWebCamp West 2020. If you're interested in creating or improving your personal website, I encourage you to join us. #IndieWeb #DoOO https://boffosocko.com/2020/05/30/rsvp-to-indiewebcamp-west-2020/ (twitter.com/_/status/1266807554673274880)
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www.lewiscowles.co.uk edited /accessibility (+392) (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] Are we limiting ourselves to a maximum of three Zoom rooms for /2020/West?
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www.lewiscowles.co.uk edited /accessibility (+17) (view diff)
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Let's try to fill them... and see
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[jgmac1106] yeah so far in last two remote events only one room was needed
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@frankmeeuwsen Cool dat @threadreaderapp nu in beta heeft om threads op je eigen site te posten. Met dank aan de #indieweb community! https://diggingthedigital.com/threadreaderapp-biedt-blogfunctie-aan-in-beta/ (PS: How do I get in the beta?) (twitter.com/_/status/1266823278552928258)
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[KevinMarks] Reading scrollback, the definition of streaming has been contested for a while
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[KevinMarks] This is another one of those tech arguments that I lost in the company and saw it adopted later
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[KevinMarks] "we can use http for streaming" was controversial once
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johan.land created /User:Johan.land (+18) "Created page with "https://johan.land"" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /2020/West/Planning (+1805) "Tentative schedule" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] I've fleshed out a tentative schedule if GWG or others have comments/thoughts before we finalize: https://indieweb.org/2020/West/Planning#Tentative_Schedule
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Zegnat “RPG room” o.O
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Zegnat That is not enough details, [chrisaldrich] :P What RPG? Tabletop? Should I reset my clock to be there?!
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@hopeslife83 ↩️ Although I'm sure some do. They're #indieweb evangelists. (twitter.com/_/status/1266855491558232065)
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[chrisaldrich] Zegnat, I was just talking about the tentative schedule in that one section.
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[chrisaldrich] Though feel free to comment/brainstorm on those other sections and how they might be realized online!
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GWG I wonder if we could do some sort of board game type play?
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GWG Like Trivia...might work
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[chrisaldrich] If there's enough movement on the Pokemon concept on hack day, maybe a game later that evening?
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[chrisaldrich] 😉
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GWG I thought some sort of Trivia game because it might be easy to do over Zoom
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GWG No opinion toward anything...just think a social activity is worth trying.
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[chrisaldrich] Charades maybe?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Someone needs to invent an Indieweb themed game
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[chrisaldrich] Maybe a session idea for Saturday: https://indieweb.org/2020/West/Proposals
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[chrisaldrich] Maybe a scavenger hunt based on personal websites?
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[chrisaldrich] Using only webrings?
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sknebel hm, can any of the wikipedia games be converted? although I guess not all our posting patterns work for that very well
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sknebel (5-clicks-to-jesus and such)
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sknebel i.e. fastest path to a page containing a word or a picture of something or ...
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