#meta 2020-06-08

2020-06-08 UTC
[LewisCowles]1, [fluffy] and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
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tantek.com edited /space (+10410) "move space characters section from [[note]] to here" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /note () "(-7934) /* Whitespace */ rename, summarize, and move full content to [[space]] page" (view diff)
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[tantek] phew that was a big gardening task
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aaronpk whoa
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[tantek] and I have now trained myself to write and say "space characters" instead of "whitespace"
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[tantek] and "inline space character" when referring to ASCII 32 0x20
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[tantek] so it's definitely doable (as a renaming / reframing)
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[KevinMarks] lots of unicode spaces
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[tantek] yes there are, and Wikipedia doesn't have a generic term for them πŸ˜›
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tantek.com edited /note (+7) "explicit TOC higher up" (view diff)
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[tantek] anyway if you have opinions about space and space characters, please review /space and and the now summarized text in https://indieweb.org/note#Space_characters (which links out to /space for fully expanded details & history)
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[KevinMarks] safelist/blocklist are also good terminology swaps
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[tantek] see Leah's tweet for a ton more of that. the replies are ... interesting
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[tantek] https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904
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@leahculver I refuse to use β€œwhitelist”/β€œblacklist” or β€œmaster”/β€œslave” terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter. (twitter.com/_/status/1269109776983547904)
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loqi.me created /article_preview (+306) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /search (+189) "/* Aaron Parecki */" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+165) "'Expert Twitter' Only Goes So Far. Bring Back Blogs - WIRED by Cal Newport" (view diff)
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@polarbirke ↩️ I'd love to see that! Can't recall seeing it in any news website yet. But (there's always a but): you might want to have a look at https://sebastiangreger.net/2018/05/indieweb-privacy-challenge-webmentions-backfeeds-gdpr/ by @sebastiangreger who has put together some nuanced thoughts about the ethical and legal implications. (twitter.com/_/status/1269919218277003264)
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@EatPodcast ↩️ I know that @chrisaldrich was involved in doing Webmention and other IndieWeb things with his local paper; see https://boffosocko.com/2018/05/29/indieweb-ifying-coloradoboulevard-net/ (twitter.com/_/status/1269964118359977986)
[LewisCowles], swentel, [jgmac1106], [snarfed], twomanytacos, [KevinMarks] and [tantek] joined the channel
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@zerok Using #webmentions for RSVPs: https://zerokspot.com/weblog/2020/06/08/rsvps-with-webmentions/ #100daystooffload #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1270019793240952832)
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loqi.me created /full_stack_engineer (+285) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^^^ whoa another 100daya example!
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[tantek] Should we add it?
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aaronpk it feels less weird to add people's blog posts from their own site
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aaronpk as opposed to adding things that other people wrote about someone
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aaronpk but i'm still on the fence
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@TrailMarks We are in awe of @orbit_db's practical magic: immutable names to mutable data stores built with @IPFS It let us dream of building @indiewebcamp 3, a MetaVerse of Narrative Trails, make the Player be the Platform! A dream we share with @magicindustries, https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanagill/ https://twitter.com/orbit_db/status/1269922631077236736 (twitter.com/_/status/1270026848961994754)
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aaronpk πŸ€”
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[tantek] πŸ€”
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[tantek] I guess when someone puts a β€œ3” after your thing they’re acknowledging that that thing is already a big deal?
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aaronpk i like how we skipped right past 2
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[tantek] Aaronpk yes similarly. I feel more comfortable citing someone’s blog post than their tweet
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[schmarty] also came here to ask what indiewebcamp 2 was and how i missed out??
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[schmarty] or did i join indiewebcamp 2 and i somehow started the series in the middle?!?
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@mantonsblog I’ll be attending IndieWebCamp West later this month. It’s online-only, centered in the west coast timezone, but anyone around the world is welcome. Need to think about IndieWeb-related goals for http://Micro.blog that week. https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-ZB8zoAAu6sdN (twitter.com/_/status/1270032037299314689)
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[tantek] Aaronpk [schmarty] we might be the 2 if you start counting the original web as IndieWebCamp 1
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aaronpk heh
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GWG Is that like the Jackson Five? The Indieweb 2?
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[tantek] πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ
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GWG The Hollywood 8?
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@geonz ↩️ #indieweb! There are better ways! (twitter.com/_/status/1270041058458718211)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-2) "πŸŽͺ" (view diff)
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[tantek] [manton] was your "I'm going to IndieWebCamp West" blog post supposed to be an RSVP I didn't see it show up here: https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-ZB8zoAAu6sdN (did you send a webmention?)
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aaronpk The site doesn't show an RSVP section when there's a ticket URL set
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@tomasparksts ↩️ @indiewebcamp #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1270048988725567489)
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[tantek] aaronpk feels we have lost something then, since the 2020.indieweb.org events did show Indie RSVPs even with Tito tickets
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aaronpk what's missing is a page on 2020.indieweb.org for this
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aaronpk we had this discussion a while back
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aaronpk it's misleading to show RSVPs on events.indieweb.org when there's also a ticket link elsewhere, since people may think that posting the RSVP is enough
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[tantek] do we have instructions for how to create/clone a page on 2020.indieweb.org for this? I feel it's still something that is non-obvious (there are multiple folders/files to create etc.)
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aaronpk There are some notes in the readme https://github.com/indieweb/2020.indieweb.org
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[tantek] aaronpk, [manton] linked to https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-ZB8zoAAu6sdN so his post should at least show up under Comments or Blog Posts on that page and it doesn't. So either he didn't send a webmention or it was not handled
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aaronpk that is true. let me see if it's hiding it because it's an rsvp
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[jgmac1106] going to work on the definition though, people okay with me removing "foo" from loqi directions?
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aaronpk no i don't see any webmentions from manton in the logs
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[tantek] what is foo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "foo" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "foo is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] what is Foocamp
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Foocamp" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Foocamp is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] foo is jargon that is sometimes used in computer language programming examples to express the name of a variable, usually with another variable β€œbar”, to illustrate a concept or algorithm; FOO is also an acronym for β€œFriends Of O'Reilly” typically seen in the phrase β€œFoo Camp”, the predecessor of [[BarCamp]], which the IndieWeb community uses as a model for [[IndieWebCamps]].
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /foo (+417) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] Foocamp is /foo
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Foocamp (+16) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] [schmarty] would you consider a re-imagined TWITIW podcast that was live interview-based rather than script based? E.g. start with your usual pre-recorded intro, then do a live interview with whichever community volunteers you've gotten to commit to your Friday afternoon/evening timeslot that week (perhaps 1-2 minimum, max 3?) and prompt *them* to pick out something from the newsletter to share / expand on, then close the podcast with your
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[tantek] usual pre-recorded closer (maybe updated to how to organize a HWC in your own timezone πŸ™‚ )
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[tantek] That would eliminate the (your) time spent researching everything mentioned in the newsletter, and hopefully minimize subsequent editing as well to "mostly" prepending intro/outro. They might be a bit longer (like 15 minutes instead of 5) but I think that's ok? Anyway, just a thought if you ever feel a draw to attempting a re-imagined weekly indieweb podcast.
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[tantek] And yes I volunteer as tribute / interviewee to help for at least the first month's worth πŸ™‚
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[schmarty] tantek: that is a cool idea! i have been playing with some of the tech to do livestreams where the audio can be extracted into a final podcast.
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[schmarty] i like the idea of having guests choose an item to summarize (along w/ some discussion)
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aaronpk i like it! no need to cover _everything_ in the newsletter!
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[tantek] [schmarty] to be clear this is mere ideating, not voluntelling or shaming or pressuring in anyway. If it's not something that inspires you like YEAH! then it's totally ok to ignore. πŸ™‚
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[schmarty] haha, thanks. i like the pitch! your proposal really helps knock down some of the major challenges by timeboxing it and spreading out the effort of choosing what to report on and how to summarize it.
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[tantek] distributing burdens/responsibilities is how we construct sustainable community habits
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[schmarty] one hang-up i have about taking it on myself is coordinating with volunteers each week. i don't want to lean too heavily on the same people, for example, so there's work to be done with outreach. particularly important would be working to make sure e.g. white cis male voices are not over-represented. πŸ€”
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aaronpk another thought, i know jean was just talking about restarting micro monday...
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aaronpk maybe there's an opportunity for some collaboration there
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[schmarty] (all that to say: i have skills i need to work on before i'd trust myself to commit and do a good job!)
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[schmarty] aaronpk: good idea! jean is a podcasting pro.
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aaronpk yep! and had been doing a weekly podcast pretty consistently!
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aaronpk https://micro.welltempered.net/2020/06/08/whats-up-with.html
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Loqi What’s Up With Micro Monday?
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[schmarty] she does lots of podcasts, haha
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[tantek] [schmarty] I'm willing to help with coordinating with volunteers each week to help with sharing that part of the responsibility. I am sensitive to and agree with your concerns about overrepresenting white cis male voices.
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[snarfed] [chrisaldrich] GWG https://2020.indieweb.org/ and https://2020.indieweb.org/summit say IWS 2020 is cancelled, but have no mention of IWC West Online, which is basically replacing IWS. want to change those to say that instead, loudly, and point to https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-ZB8zoAAu6sdN ?
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[tantek] [schmarty] I do think we'd want to pick from folks who are semi-active in chat so they have a context for what is already in the newsletter and speak to it meaningfully (with zero prep time), rather than burdening someone inactive with doing research (and thus adding work for someone that may already be burdened).
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[tantek] snarfed we need a 2020.indieweb.org/west first to point to
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[tantek] there I made a link in the archives πŸ˜›
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[snarfed] do we? can't point to the events.indieweb.org page?
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[schmarty] tantek: thank you for the offer, which helps a lot! i agree there is a balance to strike there!
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[tantek] [schmarty] I think we can also get volunteers from the weekly HWC meetups too
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[tantek] (in addition to those active in chat, they're not the same sets of people though there is some overlap)
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[tantek] snarfed, nope, see earlier chat about creating the 2020.indieweb.org subpage where aaronpk pointed to the README
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[schmarty] tantek: very true! and reminds me of the timezone issue when doing a live show, haha. i could see pre-recording a segment or two just before or after an online HWC.
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[tantek] [schmarty] that's fine, I want to prioritize a regular timeslot (or slots) that works for you as host.
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[snarfed] ok! as long as that can happen fast at least. if not, pointing to the existing page might be a worthwhile stopgap to make sure we don't lose any possible attendees who see the other pages first
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[schmarty] tantek: this could work!!
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[KevinMarks] Do we need to get the 5>2 shirts out again?
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] maybe save them for the next old(er) white male standards geeks meetup πŸ˜›
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GWG How do you amend a page on 2020.indieweb.org?
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aaronpk amend?
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[KevinMarks] https://twitter.com/quephird/status/791759139479388160?s=20
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@quephird .γ€€γ€€(β•―Β°β–‘Β°οΌ‰β•―οΈ΅ β”³β”³β”³β”³β”³β”³γ€€γ€€| ┓┏┓┏┓┃　　| ┛┗┛┗┛┃　　| ┓┏┓┏┓┃ ┛┗┛┗┛┃　Ɔ3M β”“β”β”“β”β”“β”ƒγ€€α—‘βŸ˜α—‘ ┛┗┛┗┛┃　ᗑSX β”“β”β”“β”β”“β”ƒγ€€βŸ˜Λ₯SX ┛┗┛┗┛┃　Λ₯WX ┓┏┓┏┓┃ ┃┃┃┃┃┃πŸ”₯πŸ”₯πŸ”₯πŸ”₯ β”»β”»β”»β”»β”»β”» (twitter.com/_/status/791759139479388160)
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Loqi [github] Pull request opened by aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/2020.indieweb.org/pull/40
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aaronpk readme updates ^^
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GWG aaronpk, I think I need to amend the one for Summit
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[tantek] aaronpk, reviewing
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Loqi [github] Pull request merged by tantek: https://github.com/indieweb/2020.indieweb.org/pull/40
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/2020.indieweb.org to https://2020.indieweb.org
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[tantek] sounds good GWG. maybe drop a linehere about which file you're editing if you're worried about conflicts
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/COVID-19 (+17) (view diff)
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[manton] [tantek] [aaronpk] I didn't send a Webmention. I meant to send one manually, and forgot!
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aaronpk aha!
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aaronpk i thought it would be sent automatically though?
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Loqi [github] Pull request opened by dshanske: https://github.com/indieweb/2020.indieweb.org/pull/41
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GWG I also edited the event page and the wiki page
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West (+17) "/* Previously */" (view diff)
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GWG Anyone want to approve a PR?
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[manton] [aaronpk] No, Micro.blog only sends Webmentions automatically for replies, not RSVPs.
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aaronpk i didn't know micro.blog support RSVPs!
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Loqi [github] Pull request merged by tantek: https://github.com/indieweb/2020.indieweb.org/pull/41
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/2020.indieweb.org to https://2020.indieweb.org