#meta 2021-01-11

2021-01-11 UTC
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@jackyalcine Now that we've seen social 'networking' companies can directly profit from hate and political corruption with no consequence - can we start seriously investing in other platforms that don't use us for money? https://runyourown.social/ https://joinmastodon.org/ https://indieweb.org/why (twitter.com/_/status/1348456905723703298)
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@tnolte I've been working for awhile on trying to make my blog the central hub of my online presence taking a #POSSE approach. One issue that I've found is that the #Facepile setup of #Webmentions is getting blown away when using JetPack comments. #IndieWeb https://buff.ly/2Xt7wYr (twitter.com/_/status/1348477582283571200)
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@pshenichnyy Довольно давно энтузиасты пилят тулы по концепции https://indieweb.org. Основная идея, что контент должен принадлежать вам, а не платформе. (twitter.com/_/status/1348554412151754752)
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[tantek] what is decentralization
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "decentralization" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "decentralization is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] wat
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[tantek] decentralization is /decentralized
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /decentralization (+26) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] decentralization << Thread: https://twitter.com/pfrazee/status/1348415859707023362
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@pfrazee Yo, decentralizers. If our projects are ONLY about censorship resistance and NOT about better algorithms for elevating truth, and NOT about creating constrained but real powers of moderation, then we're making things worse. 1/n (twitter.com/_/status/1348415859707023362)
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Loqi ok, I added "Thread: https://twitter.com/pfrazee/status/1348415859707023362" to the "See Also" section of /decentralized https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=74220&oldid=52605
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[tantek] social media << Criticism: 2021-01-10 [http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2021/01/another-way-social-media-is-bad.html Another way social media is bad] <blockquote>Full-fat Twitter and Facebook (and others) are computationally expensive: the bells and whistles cost in terms of JavaScript, and there is no shortage of other client-side analytics to feed you the posts to keep you engaged and to monitor your actions to construct ad
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[tantek] profiles.</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: 2021-01-10 [http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2021/01/another-way-social-media-is-bad.html Another way social media is bad] <blockquote>Full-fat Twitter and Facebook (and others) are computationally expensive: the bells and whistles cost in terms of JavaScript, and there is no shortage of other client-side analytics to feed you the posts to keep you engaged and to monitor your actions to construct ad" to the "See Also" section of /social_media https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=74221&oldid=74052
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tantek.com edited /social_media (+23) "finish blockquote" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Firefox (+52) "Mac G3, G4, G5 support" (view diff)
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[tantek] voxpelli++ for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25701498
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Loqi voxpelli has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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Loqi [VoxPelli] There are two approaches: * The federated approach, where many Twitter like sites can interconnect and exchange messages. One current example of this is Mastodon, older examples are Status.net/Identi.ca * An indie approach, where everyone basically h...
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[tantek] should various IndieWeb projects and protocols be added to this page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_software_and_protocols_for_distributed_social_networking
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voxpelli Thanks tantek :)
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@jimray Joe Biden could show true leadership as an indieweb hipster and nevertweeter-in-chief https://flickerfusion.com/2021/01/10/power-and-the-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/1348634697895698434)
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[KevinMarks] We need to get David Recordon back on the OpenID train
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[KevinMarks] POSSE to @POTUS
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[tantek] lets get him upgraded to IndieAuth 😄
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@openbugbounty @indiewebcamp please notify your IT security team about a security vulnerability OBB-1724191 on your website https://www.openbugbounty.org/reports/1724191/ (twitter.com/_/status/1348686367350550528)
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[tantek] uh wat
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[tantek] aaronpk is this for real?
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[schmarty] the site is generally for real.
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[schmarty] ooh they have a previous report: https://www.openbugbounty.org/reports/1364649/
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[schmarty] the reports are often... technically correct. like yeah it shouldn't be possible to stick javascript in the query string and have it execute on the page but it's also unlikely to lead to leaking anyone's auth tokens.
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aaronpk Yea I should fix that but I also don't have a lot of faith in that system overall
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aaronpk I get those all the time for sites of mine that literally don't do anything and it's just people looking for low hanging fruit hoping to get a bug bounty payout from a company
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[schmarty] myep!
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[KevinMarks] I get one every couple of months for svgshare.com, which does not enable xss, as it only embeds in img tags, and explicitly filters out script using a full html5 parser on the backend.
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[KevinMarks] What it does do though is inline the svg into the submit page so anyone posting an svg with script in gets it executed on them before submitting.
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aaronpk oh also i don't like that the emails i get for these don't actually contain any info, and it asks you to contact the researcher for details of the report
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aaronpk i don't believe that everyone participating in this program is acting in good faith so i'm not willing to respond to them
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aaronpk well it's fixed but i have no idea how to tell them
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aaronpk meh i don't care
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[tantek] lol ok
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[tantek] can you reply with STOP?
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loqi.me created /POSTER (+464) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /POSTER (+366) "[tantek] added "Brainstorming / template request: https://chat.indieweb.org/2021-01-11/1610397568780000" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@flexsite ↩️ @indiewebcamp FTW (twitter.com/_/status/1348744440551190530)
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@ktracycom IndieWeb is Too Complicated for It’s Own Good https://www.ktracy.com/2021/01/11/indieweb-is-too-complicated-for-its-own-good/ (twitter.com/_/status/1348769152534786048)
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[Raphael_Luckom] I'm always curious to read those posts. In this one, I wasn't really surprised by anything (didn't really agree, but not super surprised) until I got to the part about having to stop using Parler (lol/spit take)
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[tantek] thanks for the heads-up / warning!
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aaronpk so many of the "it's too complicated" posts also seem to start by assuming you need to use a static site generator
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aaronpk or criticisms of wordpress
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[tantek] SSGs by themselves are a path to a system of many parts
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[tantek] yup
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[tantek] the observations in the article seem accurate, there are many potential moving parts, that's what makes them more swappable and robust, more self-serviceable (if you're into that sort of thing)
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[tantek] and yes, for *most* folks that's too complicated, that's why there's micro.blog
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[tantek] etc.
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[tantek] it's like either you're a dev who should be comfortable with systems with many parts (and the freedom to tinker), or go signup for an all-in-one service that supports IndieWeb standards
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[tantek] not sure how that's not clear
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aaronpk probly cause we haven't launched the clearer home page yet :D
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[Raphael_Luckom] My patience for the "it's too complicated" argument depends a lot on how much of a software writer the person is. Like if someone is at the level of "has installed wordpress," then I understand _why they would say that_. I don't think it's a _legitimate_ criticism--as far as I can tell, indieweb isn't trying to be an installable solution--but I understand how someone in that position would have that complaint.
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[Raphael_Luckom] s/legitimate/useful maybe
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[tantek] aaronpk++ nailed it 😕
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Loqi aaronpk has 48 karma in this channel over the last year (211 in all channels)
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[tantek] [Raphael_Luckom] sorta. I mean yes, some folks *are* intended their IndieWeb project to be an installable solution, others, a more tinkerable solution. Problem is we don't really do a good job of distinguishing so it's too easy to mistake one for the other.
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[tantek] Which is why I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to these criticisms, they're a good set of datapoints of how people are perceiving the "offerings"
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[tantek] And as aaronpk said, it's going to take a bit of a push on the new home page design to address them (like we know how to address them or most of them, it's "just" a matter of a focused bit of work to create the content, design, links, IA)
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[tantek] what is new home page design
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "new home page design" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "new home page design is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] what is three column
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Loqi 2019/homepage is a project to update the IndieWeb community homepage in 2019, in particular with a three column layout designed for onboarding three common sets of visitors and new IndieWeb community members https://indieweb.org/three_column
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[tantek] new home page design is /three_column
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /new_home_page_design (+25) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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aaronpk i would really like to launch that this year
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tantek.com edited /new_home_page_design (+1) "r--" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk yeah that's a good 2021 goal
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[tantek] maybe it would be a good pop-up topic for those of us involved with moving it forward? and anyone who wants to volunteer to help with the pieces?
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aaronpk i think that'd be a good start
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[tantek] I feel like the pop-ups last year helped nudge larger projects forward
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[tantek] aaronpk minor (I think) request, any chance the "x is /y" redirect creation could first follow redirects on "/y" to create a redirect to the final destination page instead of create a double redirect?
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[tantek] see above example 🙂
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aaronpk that sounds doable
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tantek.com edited /2019/homepage (+278) "/* Three Main Options */ try prototyping a table just to start diagramming *something*" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2019/homepage (+17) "/* Three Main Options */ add pine.blog" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2019/homepage (+58) "style tweak" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2019/homepage (+87) "incorporate a few see also into proper sections, also NEED SCREENSHOTS" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok there's a bit of progress
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[tantek] now if anyone wants to help with screenshots of the examples, that'd help!