#meta 2022-10-31

2022-10-31 UTC
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[tantek] "not having confidence in your messages arriving at their target ruined the fun for them" <-- this is very true
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[tantek] partial interop is a proof of concept at best, it must be a step towards user-friendly interop, because like what you were saying, user-frustrating interop is a recipe for abandonment
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[tantek] I'm not even sure partial interoperability is fine for nerds 😛
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barnaby yeah that insecurity is one of my biggest issues with the inbox/outbox message-passing model vs just having content at a URL which can be fetched
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[tantek] same tbh
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[tantek] though that being said, that inbox/outbox model is further along than say private WebSub notifications
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[tantek] we should take this thread to #indieweb-dev
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[tantek] !tell [timothy_chambe] another suggestion for https://indieweb.social/about/more — it should link to the Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/indiewebsocial
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi yea!
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@ttaskett ↩️ Munecat is on Mastodon as @web3isgreat@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1586883919760203776)
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[tantek] aaronpk, currently the permalink display of a chat message from a chat long only shows that one message. WDYT of providing the immediately previous and subsequent message (like in a smaller font) to provide at least *some* minimal context
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[tantek] use-case: when someone makes a typo in a chat message and then immediately corrects it in the next message, the correction would show up on the display of the chat message permalink, which would help understanding of anyone who happened to find a link to the message out of context
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[tantek] open to making that 1-3 previous/next chats as context. asking for at least 1 to help solve that particular use-case
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[snarfed] [tantek] instead of the time link, try the # link, it's the fragment of the line in the full day's log page
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[tantek] snarfed, big differences:
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[tantek] the permalink has a single h-entry which is useful for sharing/consuming use-cases
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[tantek] the # link shows too much and the thing you're citing can get lost in the noise
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[tantek] the # link might not actually work to "scroll it" into position if there is insufficient chat for the day, or if it was one of the last things said that day
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[snarfed] 🤷 maybe? i've pretty much always used the # link, and I've never heard complaints or regretted it. but context in the other one is definitely a good idea?
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[snarfed] wait, that last part, why would that be true? sounds surprising
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[tantek] I usually use the # link too, however I've noticed those limitations
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[tantek] browser don't put extra vertical blank space after a page
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[tantek] so if you # link to something near the bottom of the page, it won't be scrolled to the "top" of your view
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aaronpk [tantek]: it used to do that, but when i switched to the file-based storage, it wasn't as easy to query "around" a permalink, and i haven't gotten around to making it work again
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[snarfed] oh, true, that's standard browser behavior
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[snarfed] but yeah if you really want it at the top of the viewport, then ok
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aaronpk it's very easy to ask a database "give me the previous 5 lines sorted by x", but it's harder to ask that of a filesystem
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[tantek] aaronpk, I guess I was hoping that the next/prev button code would be enough to pull in that info
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aaronpk hm the immediate one before and after might be already available, and i suppose that is an incremental improvement
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[tantek] lol just now realizing that chat message permalinks don't have next/prev functionality 😂 😭 (they're grayed out)
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aaronpk oh! well
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[tantek] and that's probably the reason why
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aaronpk indeed
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[tantek] darn I saw the links and always assumed they worked
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[tantek] hadn't tried clicking them before
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aaronpk guess they aren't super necessary then 😂
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aaronpk clicking the timestamp takes you to the day page scrolled to that message, so that's how i've always been navigating to find the context
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aaronpk it's doable to show more context on the page, it just hasn't been "itchy" enough to scratch
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[tantek] I mean sure, if you know to look for the context that works well
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[tantek] this is for the cases where it's not obvious that context could change the meaning of what you're looking at
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[tantek] e.g. when someone accidentally omits (or includes!) a "not"
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[tantek] alternatively, could the fragment highlighting also grow the text size?
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[tantek] e.g. this selector `.hilite .in` could include `font-size: 130%;`
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aaronpk huh that's an idea
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[tantek] that may make the # referenced text more obvious
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[tantek] frankly that's also an accessibility thing as we should use more than "just" color to distinguish something semantically
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aaronpk done
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[tantek] oh wow that makes a big difference!
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[tantek] aaronpk++ thank you!
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Loqi aaronpk has 26 karma in this channel over the last year (107 in all channels)
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[tantek] almost gives it a pull-quote like quality
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[tantek] and works well for cases when the highlighted text is not scrolled to top
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@m_ott ✍️ New post: Syndicating Posts from Your Personal Website to Twitter and Mastodon #TwitterTakeover #IndieWeb https://matthiasott.com/notes/syndicating-posts-personal-website-twitter-mastodon (twitter.com/_/status/1586890198943641600)
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Loqi [matthiasott] has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] [matthiasott]++ nice article!
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[tantek] definitely worth IndieNewsing!
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aaronpk sure
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barnaby huh cool, that mastodon post creation API looks extremely similar to form-encoded micropub
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barnaby I guess that’s a mastodon-specific thing and nothing to do with activitypub?
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[tantek] correct
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[KevinMarks] Mastodon api is still a bit more OStatus shaped
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[tantek] barnaby, if you have further thoughts on that, please feel free to say something supportive in https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/2234 🙂
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Loqi [dissolve] #2234 Micropub Support
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] unsurprising since Mastodon used to support OStatus
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barnaby nothing specific to say about it, but I added a thumbs-up for all that’s worth
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[tantek] your observation that "mastodon post creation API looks extremely similar to form-encoded micropub" could be worth explicitly noting, as an encouragement to take the incremental steps to get Micropub support in Mastodon by building on Mastodon's post creation API
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barnaby does activitypub have provisions for client apps to post content, or is it exclusively for federation?
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barnaby hmm yeah maybe that’s worth noting
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tantek.com edited /Mastodon (+199) "/* Micropub */ note issue to add, encourage contribution" (view diff)
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[snarfed] barnaby yes, AP has both client/server and server/server protocols
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aaronpk tho mastodon doesn't support the client-server protocol
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barnaby yeah, interesting that they made their own, although if they started out with ostatus and moved to AP later then maybe their client/server API predates AP
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tantek.com edited /YAGNI (+293) "dfn Indieweb relevance, move Wikipedia link to SA" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /to-do (+72) "/* See Also */ social web map needs" (view diff)
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@PatatasSmall ↩️ More tips -Check hashtags #twittermigration #feditips #introduction -View a user's posts as an RSS feed by adding .rss to the profile URL like so: https://indieweb.social/@smallpatatas.rss -Get a sense of a server's community by adding /explore to the URL: https://indieweb.social/explore 5/ (twitter.com/_/status/1586917056787714048)
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@PatatasSmall ↩️ Pick an instance (server). The largest ones are currently overwhelmed. I picked http://indieweb.social, but this page has a good list: http://joinmastodon.org/servers YOU CAN ALWAYS SWITCH SERVERS LATER and the process is quite smooth, so no need to overthink this decision. 2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1586917046851452934)
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@alex_j_h Trying out Mastodon - @ajh@indieweb.social if you want to follow (twitter.com/_/status/1586920786027483136)
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@distractable @ceedon@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1586926087971512320)
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loqi.me created /clapback (+218) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /this_you (+21) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /clapback (+31) "[tantek] added "[[dunking]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@Nezteb ↩️ It involves more work from an implementation perspective, but I’m hoping movements like #indieweb and protocols like https://activitypub.rocks/ might provide better opportunities for a social internet. TLDR: protocols over platforms. (twitter.com/_/status/1586948258999730178)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1586979281418289152)
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@dmugge ↩️ I've made an account and am ready to put my shoulders under an alternative to the "richest man in the world builds and owns the everything app"-craziness: @dmugge@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1586979086731280386)
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@jpcaruana If you too left over to Mastodon, you’ll find me there: https://indieweb.social/@jpcaruana (https://jp.caruana.fr/notes/2022/10/31/if-you-too-left-over-to/) (twitter.com/_/status/1586982427272028162)
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@dmugge Giving #Mastodon a try: @dmugge@indieweb.social. Simply can't be the case that people's only way to communicate will be a single guy-owned commercially extractive panopticon "super-app". (twitter.com/_/status/1586984688194920449)
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@michaelgraaf RT @matthiasott@mastodon.social ✍️ New post: Syndicating Posts from Your Personal Website to Twitter and Mastodon #TwitterTakeover #IndieWeb https://matthiasott.com/notes/syndicating-posts-personal-website-twitter-mastodon https://mastodon.social/@matthiasott/109260238666388770 (twitter.com/_/status/1586987309068881920)
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@eay ↩️ Wie stehst du dann zu POSSE (https://indieweb.org/POSSE)? Fun-fact: Ich lese deine Tweets über deinen worldwide-Feed. Hier in Twitter rauschen sie an mir vorbei. (twitter.com/_/status/1587001540044378112)
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@megarush1024 ↩️ Also, fewer screnshots of text. The only other platform I can think of with really high user-encouraged image description is http://micro.blog, which also supports the protocols Masto uses. Plus indieweb standards. (twitter.com/_/status/1587021225200685056)
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@gerwitz @mxbck are you in the fediverse? I’m very curious to see how the IndieWeb world interacts with it over the next year. (twitter.com/_/status/1587024431918063616)
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@Animeazing ↩️ Ook ben ik mij aan het inlezen over de concepten van Federation en IndieWeb, want dat vind ik heel interessant. Wat… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587023569896329216 (twitter.com/_/status/1587023569896329216)
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@m_ott ↩️ however, microblog on my own personal website more and syndicate the posts to different platforms. #IndieWeb FTW! I wrote about it here: https://matthiasott.com/notes/syndicating-posts-personal-website-twitter-mastodon (2/2) (twitter.com/_/status/1587047232242696198)
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@aaronbieber To all my Tweeps stampeding to Mastodon... First, find me at @aaronbieber@indieweb.social Second, link your blue bird account to your Mastodon account on Twitodon so we can find you! https://twitodon.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/1587051401947095042)
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@jgmac1106 I am trying to put my Halloween costume on the homepage this year: https://bit.ly/3WiHSTy and can't seems to squeeze into my stylesheet: https://bit.ly/3WiHSTy If @github lists one of your primary language as "Hack" are they trying to tell you your code is awful #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1587063851287289860)
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@kkomaitis I am not leaving Twitter but I am keeping my options open via my new @joinmastodon profile: @kkomaitis@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1587074291878723584)
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@acuedadamente ↩️ Why did you choose indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1587074452159926274)
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@tkadlec ↩️ Honestly, the biggest outcome for me is giving me a big enough kick to finally sort out all the IndieWeb stuff I'd been putting off (webmentions, publish-once-syndicate-everywhere, etc) I've been saying I was going to do this for literally years, but I'm a slacker. (twitter.com/_/status/1587078079779930113)
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@seizemeans Seeing a lot of people worried about how they've built their audiences here and are rightfully worried about new ownership. Thinking about the indieweb POSSE mantra and how The Verge redesign preempts the platform problem and follows it. https://indieweb.org/POSSE#:~:text=POSSE%20is%20an%20abbreviation%20for,directly%20interacting%20with%20your%20content. (twitter.com/_/status/1587078042232537101)
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@thatfatguy_bg ↩️ иначе според мен правилната посока е POSSE, но за съжаление не е за нормални потребители... https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1587081796071657474)
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@250exabytes ↩️ до речі, там порішали з верифікацією в простий спосіб https://indieweb.org/rel-me (twitter.com/_/status/1587082948406386690)
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@remeranAuthor ↩️ For 2023 I'm gonna POSSE it up. https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1587087016717877249)
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[tantek] lots of POSSE love today
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[tantek] Should we do spooky Halloween-themed IndieWeb posts today?
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[tantek] I mean we have /death and /zombie
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barnaby or take the opportunity to resurrect dead sites or links
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[tantek] ooh repairing links to dead or zombie sites would help
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[tantek] are there tools that scan your site for links to dead/zombie sites?
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loqi.me created /female_zombie: (+19) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /male_zombie: (+19) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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@cbrzeszczot ↩️ "POSSE is an abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, the practice of posting content on your own site first, then publishing copies or sharing links to third parties (like social media silos) with original post links [...]" https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1587101715425370113)
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[tantek] checks the stats again
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tantek.com edited /Bridgy_Fed (+462) "add myself and screenshot of search result" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Social_Web_Working_Group (+422) "add brief history section with link to a wiki page that lists a bunch of the approaches that were rejected" (view diff)
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[tantek] reminder to [benatwork] — still working on https://etherpad.indieweb.org/How_to_transition_from_Twitter if you'd like to collab on that. It's an incremental start and could use expansion / ideas.
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[tantek] first draft made it into the newsletter last week, would be great to iterate on it and get it into the "most edited pages" for this week too: https://indieweb.org/How_to_transition_from_Twitter
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loqi.me created /Halloween (+26) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /holiday_theme (+6) "/* Github */ 2022 also!" (view diff)
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@wjmaggos If you're looking for an alternative to @twitter, please try a server on the #fediverse. Mastodon is the flagship, but there's lots of servers. Like http://indieweb.social. #TwitterMigration The difference in how it works matters. (twitter.com/_/status/1587119158067593217)
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@ivan3bx Moving to https://indieweb.social/@ivan3bx where I'll continue posting for a while.. (twitter.com/_/status/1587121163569856513)
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@cmairn ↩️ I started playing with @joinmastodon, too. https://indieweb.social/@chadmairn (twitter.com/_/status/1587128864504963073)
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@p2wy I set this up last time we went through this. https://indieweb.social/@p2wy (twitter.com/_/status/1587144153426972672)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ The real answer is not a software monoculture but a collection of protocols with multiple implementations, which is the #indieweb approach (twitter.com/_/status/1587147343186608129)
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[tantek] [KevinMarks]++ nicely said. Worth linking to https://indieweb.org/plurality in replies like that?
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Loqi [KevinMarks] has 11 karma in this channel over the last year (50 in all channels)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ The plurality principle is key https://indieweb.org/plurality (twitter.com/_/status/1587162021828648961)
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@stevebennett ↩️ Oh, I have another Mastodon account on a different server. I forgot about that. So, I’m also @steve@indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1587165778499051520)
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tantek.com edited /🎃 (-4) "->Halloween" (view diff)
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@thomn0ttom Really need to work on my profile. I think part of my trepidation is that I'm not sure what I really want to claim ownership. Technically I crosspost to my twitter account, but I still view this account as very different… https://indieweb.social/@thom/109264717345782928 (twitter.com/_/status/1587176731655303169)
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tantek.com edited /Halloween (+2192) "extract Halloween examples etc. from /holiday_theme into this new page since there's enough of them" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /holiday_theme () "(-854) generalize a bit, move Halloween lists to its own page, IndieWeb Examples date sort, collapse same holiday examples, incorporated a few SA entries into content" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🕎 (+27) "r for more inclusivity of holidays, feel free to add more holiday emoji redirects" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🪔 (+27) "r for more inclusivity of holidays, feel free to add more holiday emoji redirects" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /link_in_bio (+42) "/* Other Examples */ +Dr Katrine Wallace" (view diff)
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@courtneyr_dev RT @jan@geekcompass.com What IndieBlocks Does, and Why https://jan.boddez.net/articles/what-indieblocks-does-and-why #BlockThemes #indieweb #microformats #plugins #wordpress https://geekcompass.com/@jan/109263478489104480 (twitter.com/_/status/1587203873864908801)
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@cswordpress Initial Gutenberg support for #indieweb building blocks. (twitter.com/_/status/1587208630914400257)
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@AlWirtes I have decide to #DumpTwitter. You can find me in the #Fediverse over in #Mastadon : https://indieweb.social/@alwirtes #TwitterMigration (twitter.com/_/status/1587208169029148674)
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@mookpool I have decide to #DumpTwitter. You can find me in the #Fediverse over in #Mastadon : https://indieweb.social/@alwirtes #TwitterMigration (twitter.com/_/status/1587208005002530818)
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@_alivealife_ ↩️ Sounds different. Webmentions is the way people talk to each other across platforms on the indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/1587219096151670790)
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@m_ott ↩️ Another option: publish on your on site, syndicate elsewhere (what the IndieWeb community around @t and others calls POSSE), e.g. https://matthiasott.com/notes/syndicating-posts-personal-website-twitter-mastodon (twitter.com/_/status/1587225486031216640)
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@caffeneko ↩️ This is why I chose http://indieweb.social (twitter.com/_/status/1587230504696557568)