#meta 2023-12-19

2023-12-19 UTC
gRegor joined the channel
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boffosocko.com
edited /typecast (+1058) "examples; What is the Typosphere article; Classic Typewriter Page; Online Typewriter Groups;"
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[Murray], [KevinMarks], AramZS, [tantek], marion, [aciccarello] and [Caleb_Hearth] joined the channel
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Loqi
[github] Successfully deployed w3c/webmention to https://webmention.net
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[tantek]
^ aaronpk WDYT of adding a few more notifications from very specific GitHub repos to here, e.g. new issues and PRs, perhaps specifically on the repos for the specs listed in https://spec.indieweb.org/ ?
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[tantek]
I don't think they're very noisy right now, and they could be useful to get things merged faster (like implementation reports! I see two other past implementation reports in the Webmention repo for example https://github.com/w3c/webmention/pulls 107 and 114 there)
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aaronpk
Yeah for sure
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aaronpk
Right now it's tied to the repos that are hosted on the server but I can probably open that up to some more
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[tantek]
Should we pre-emptively ask in our contribution text (e.g. that says "don't copy from Wikipedia") to not use LLM generated text in contributions?
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[tantek]
I liked this: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9518.html#appendix-A-4 "No large language models were used in the production of this document."
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[tantek]
capjamesg ^
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[tantek]
right now we have these two bold commands in the edit UI: "*Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!" / "Do not copy text from Wikipedia!"*
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sknebel
apparently "to short to trigger Loqi" is the answer ;)
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capjamesg
Is that a thing?
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capjamesg
What is A?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "A" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "A is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek.com
edited /definition (+238) "stub a Do not copy from LLM generated text section"
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capjamesg
What is AI?
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capjamesg
Oh come on :D
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capjamesg
[tantek] I do have one concern about this as currently worded.
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capjamesg
"Please do not use tools like ChatGPT to write a complete definition for the IndieWeb wiki. Tools like ChatGPT should instead be used to guide you to a definition that you think clearly conveys the point you want to make."
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capjamesg
I think ChatGPT, et al. could be used to help someone for whom {language} is not their first language get their point across.
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "AI" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "AI is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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capjamesg
I don't have any attachment to those exact words, but I think we need a clause for this.
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capjamesg
I think the behavior we want to discourage is copying verbatim.
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capjamesg
Maybe this is a broader point around content for the wiki, not just for definitions.
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capjamesg
(I need input from someone else :D)
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tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+628) "/* What not to contribute to the IndieWeb wiki */ Wikipedia or LLM text (except maybe in a quote to demonstrate a problem)"
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Loqi
[preview] The IndieWeb (according to ChatGPT)
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[tantek]
capjamesg, I disagree about using ChatGPT to help someone "get their point across".
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[tantek]
if someone wants to use ChatGPT to learn a language, that's their prerogative. I'd rather they learn then use their skills to write in their own words.
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[tantek]
also, better to contribute to the IndieWeb wiki in languages you are comfortable in, as we have translations
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capjamesg
"if someone wants to use ChatGPT to learn a language, that's their prerogative." -- that's not related.
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[tantek]
it is, in that I'm saying the wiki is not the place to experiment with ChatGPT to get better at using a language.
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capjamesg
I used to work with a Ukrainian software team who would sometimes switch to the Ukrainian language to discuss technical details. Precisely communicating technical concepts was easier in their native language.
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capjamesg
I can see ChatGPT being used in this sort of arena, where you know _what_ you want to say, but you don't know _exactly how_ to say it.
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[tantek]
probably shouldn't contribute automatically translated text either
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[tantek]
I bet Wikipedia has guidance for this sort of thing we can look at as prior work
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capjamesg
Maybe we're debating a hypothetical here, but I think we should exercise caution.
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[tantek]
we're less likely to get such contributions since they're tied to people's domains (their logins on the wiki) but better to make a decision and block it up front than have to deal with it after the fact
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[tantek]
it's a hypothetical for us (AFAIK) however it is not a hypothetical in that people are submitting papers etc. that are LLM generated
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capjamesg
Agreed.
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capjamesg
I'll support the current language but we should revisit it if anyone has concerns.
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capjamesg
I don't think we should encourage AI-written text. This community has spent so much time making the wiki wonderful. Text that has been written without proper effort and regard to relevance of all kinds -- AI or otherwise -- is not appreciated.
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capjamesg
I wonder if there is a broader rule about "Use your own words" that we could note.
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capjamesg
We say don't copy from Wikipedia or ChatGPT. The pattern should be "Use your own words to express a relevant definition that will be helpful to readers of the wiki."
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capjamesg
I think we can do more by empowering people that this is a place where sincere, personal contributions are greatly valued and awarded.
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gRegor
aaronpk, maybe an issue with github chat logs, last commit 5 days ago: https://github.com/indieweb/indieweb-chat-archive/commits/main/
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loqi.me
created /chat_archive (+25) "prompted by gRegor and redirect added by gRegor"
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[aciccarello]
FYI, I'm seeing 2 loqis from Slack (Loqi and Loqi_). Not sure if that's important.
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capjamesg
Loqi has finally figured out cloning.
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gRegor
gives Loqi a clone
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Loqi
enjoys the clone
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gRegor
One Loqi always tells the truth, the other always lies...
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[tantek]
That sounds more like Gemini tho. Protocol vs LLM
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