#meta 2024-03-15

2024-03-15 UTC
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lifeofpablo.com
edited /Planning (+18) "/* Los Angeles */ add myself to LA in participating"
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Loqi
Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
jacky joined the channel
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alexsirac.com
edited /what_to_post (+589) "taken from [[post]]"
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alexsirac.com
edited /post (-420) "/* What to post */ moved section to its own page, left redirect behind"
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alexsirac.com
edited /post (-121) "/* See Also */ done: what to post separate page"
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alexsirac.com
edited /post () "(-1083) /* Why */ removed section, moved it to [[why post]]"
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alexsirac.com
edited /why_post (+1423) "added section from [[post]]"
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alexsirac.com
edited /blogging (+18) "/* Why to blog */ internal link"
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alexsirac.com
edited /why_post (+539) "/* See Also */ added links from [[blogging]]"
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to2ds, revi, [pfefferle], [contact898] and gRegor joined the channel
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alexsirac.com
edited /what_to_post (+149) "+ 1 list of themes"
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jacky joined the channel
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[tantek]
what is what to post?
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[tantek]
what to post << to-do: add a [[definition]]
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Loqi
ok, I added "to-do: add a [[definition]]" to a new "See Also" section of /what_to_post https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=94035&oldid=94034
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loqi.me
edited /what_to_post (+47) "[tantek] added "to-do: add a [[definition]]" to "See Also""
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[tantek]
what to post << post
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[tantek]
What is why post
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Loqi
why post is a question that can help you post things more intentionally, perhaps less or more often, and provide motivation to post on your own site instead of social media silos or in addition for more distribution per the POSSE method https://indieweb.org/why_post
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[tantek]
why post << post
to2ds, [Murray], [Joe_Crawford] and [Scout] joined the channel
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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btrem.com
created /User:Btrem.com (+289) "Create page with basic bio info"
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[jeremycherfas] and jacky joined the channel
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[tantek]
newsletter needs a select few photos from IWC Brighton! i.e. upload directly to https://events.indieweb.org/2024/03/indiewebcamp-brighton-2024-xRTP2hAZOvZd cc [Paul_Robert_Ll]
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[tantek]
maybe group photo day 1 and group photo day 2 would be good
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /Template:Infobox_person (+21) "let's see if inline CDATA commenting out works to exclude the style element contents from mf2 parsing that ends up in the newsletter"
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Loqi
[Event Updated] aaronparecki.com updated "Mar 9 - 10, 2024 IndieWebCamp Brighton 2024" changed video_url, description "remove zoom link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/572/history/1618/diff
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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tantek.com
edited /Template:Infobox_person (+7) "close. try HTML commenting out the CSS comments also"
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tantek.com
edited /Template:Infobox_person (+7) "close/open the HTML comments before/after the CDATA directive. this is almost a CSS test case now"
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[tantek]
haven't had to do that kind of nested overlapping multilingual comment hackery in quite a while. might be worth a blog post if this works
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[tantek]
oh no, [contact898]'s created pages aren't showing up in the newsletter as new pages because they were edits of redirects.
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[tantek]
what is why post
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Loqi
why post is a question that can help you post things more intentionally, perhaps less or more often, and provide motivation to post on your own site instead of social media silos or in addition for more distribution per the POSSE method https://indieweb.org/why_post
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tantek.com
edited /what_to_post (+188) "stub, add dfn, de-dedupe SA section, note to-do delete & recreate (for proper credit for creating a page from a redirect)"
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tantek.com
edited /why_post (+92) "note to-do delete & recreate (for proper credit for creating a page from a redirect)"
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[tantek]
worth the very minor history loss to get these pages to show up in the newsletter as new (because effectively they are)
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[tantek]
[contact898] feel free to edit, copy all content, delete, and recreate with pasted full content the /what_to_post & /why_post pages - that way they'll also show up in the newsletter as being created by you!
[dominik], gRegor and [aciccarello] joined the channel
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
angelo and [Paul_Robert_Ll] joined the channel
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[Paul_Robert_Ll]
Photos added to the IWC Brighton 2024 event page
to2ds joined the channel
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /Medium (+296) "Organize api shutdown section"
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[tantek]
Great selection of photos [Paul_Robert_Ll]++
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Loqi
[Paul_Robert_Ll] has 33 karma in this channel over the last year (48 in all channels)
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[tantek]
Looks like my style element comment hackery is functioning exactly as expected. Need to write that up then
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /2024/Brighton (+106) "Add direct links to sub pages from schedule"
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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jacky
how did I miss HWC Pacific on the same day? lol
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Loqi
misses HWC Pacific on the same day too
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+104) "Update to use IndieWeb Events site, move below ticketing step"
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[tantek]
!tell [contact898] to be clear, obv as a Wikipedia editor you very likely know how to do / about the del redirect / recreate page trick (re: https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-03-15#t1710524694423800), was stating explicit steps here in chat for the benefit of others. I'll handle it ~14:00 PDT (21:00 UTC) if you don't get to it first πŸ™‚
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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loqi.me
edited /bridge (+249) "[tantek] added "Software Example: https://hatsu.cli.rs/ Hatsu is a blog to ActivityPub bridge that you can self-host. If anyone here starts using it, feel free to create a new [[Hatsu]] page for it with that definition and your IndieWeb Example!" to "See Also""
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[tantek]
112 minutes until remind T to copy/del/recreate /what_to_post and /why_post if Alex hasn't already done so
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Loqi
I added a countdown scheduled for 2024-03-15 9:09pm UTC (#7099)
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[tantek]
!cancel 7099
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Loqi
Okay, I cancelled it!
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[contact898]
i feel like a #bot channel wouldn't hurt
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[contact898]
the bot speaks more than the humans on this server, it's a bit overwhelming at times
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loqi.me
created /math (+312) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]"
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tantek.com
edited /math (+94) "citation for fraction confusion by most people (US folks at least), one fewer like in dfn"
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loqi.me
edited /math (+33) "[tantek] added "[[microcopy]]" to "See Also""
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[aciccarello]
My first impression was that it'd be on the ActivityPub page but I guess it makes sense on the bridge page since AP is only one side of the bridge
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[tantek]
[contact898] the bot used to stream indieweb posts in here too until we created the #indieweb-stream channel for that
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[tantek]
we could consider a new channel for wiki edits as well
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[contact898]
ah alright, I see lots of non-bot posts in stream that actually are of more interest to me than the bot commands for definitions etc so that's what confused me I think
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[aciccarello]
Personally I like having the wiki edits here. Usually our meta conversations revolve around the wiki anyway
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[tantek]
[contact898] the #indieweb-meta channel gets more crowded with wiki edits on Fridays because its newsletter day πŸ™‚
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[bjoern]
[tantek] Will upload when I'm back home on Sunday.
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[tantek]
[bjoern] will miss the newsletter then! Are you able to email it to someone to upload perhaps? Happy to do it myself if you like. tantek@ (my usual domain) should work
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[bjoern]
[tantek] Ok will do that
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[tantek]
πŸ‘
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[tantek]
now let's try that "simple" time math again
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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[bjoern]
[tantek] On its way.
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[tantek]
will look for it!
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[tantek]
84 minutes until hey Tantek can you check /what_to_post and /why_post to see if they are new pages today and if not, copy/del/recreate them so they show up in https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html#new-wiki-pages ?
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Loqi
I added a countdown scheduled for 2024-03-15 9:00pm UTC (#7100)
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capjamesg
Such a good newsletter!
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[Fran]
Heya πŸ‘‹ Went back to work this week, and I let the IndieWebCamp ideas simmer a bit. Still interested in testing a forum, and I'll have some time to look into that this weekend.
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[Fran]
a) Should I go for a separate domain, or would it be an `*.http://indieweb.org` initiative?
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[Fran]
b) I can temporarily set up things on a VPS, but I'm open to suggestions for hosting.
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[Fran]
Bus-factor is a thing, so I'll strive to document the process and would be useful to have someone to share access with, just in case.
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capjamesg
There were a few other people interested in a forum too.
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capjamesg
Benji noted interest, whose username I can’t remember right now.
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capjamesg
And maybe a few others on HWC Europe this week.
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tantek.com
edited /math (+112) "also time math is hard"
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[tantek]
[bjoern] haven't received it which makes me wonder if it bounced or got spam-trapped upstream (I checked my spam folder). feel free to retry sending to my gmail which is "tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /math (+43) "Examples, relative dates"
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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[bjoern]
[tantek] Sent it to your Gmail address
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tantek.com
edited /relative_dates (+718) "move criticism/warning into a pitfalls section, expand on why, dfn expansion"
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[KevinMarks]
aren't relative dates a way to avoid having to do maths?
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loqi.me
created /maths (+17) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]"
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[tantek]
[KevinMarks] precisely why I noted them as an Example in the /math page πŸ™‚
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+738) "Separate things needed from order in which activities before an event should be taken"
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[Paul_Robert_Ll]
☝ Made a start. The list in Before was a growing mix of things needed and the order in which activities should be taken before an event. Going for some lunch, but going to continue editing later, adding in some lessons from IWC Brighton.
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tantek.com
edited /math (+13) "whole number arithmetic in particular"
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tantek.com
edited /math (+8) "instead"
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[tantek]
[Paul_Robert_Ll]++ yes that's a good split. from that edit I can see things that need updating too
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Loqi
[Paul_Robert_Ll] has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (49 in all channels)
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gRegor
what is indieforum
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indieforum" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "indieforum is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gRegor
what is indieforums
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Loqi
IndieForums is an IndieWeb friendly forum that allows users to post content or replies on their own site and cross post to the forum automatically using Webmention notifications both to the forum itself and to the original posts on other authors' websites https://indieweb.org/IndieForums
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gRegor
indieforum is /IndieForums
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loqi.me
created /indieforum (+24) "prompted by gRegor and redirect added by gRegor"
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gRegor
Maybe that for the forum?
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[tantek]
indeed, that could be an interesting experiment
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[tantek]
alright, I'm going to attempt a summary / overview page for IWS that describes what Summits are / have been, distinctly from Camps and lists the ones we have had both explicitly and implicitly
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[tantek]
[bjoern]++ got the photo and that's a great shot!
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Loqi
[bjoern] has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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tantek.com
deleted /IndieWeb_Summit "delete redirect to create new page for newsletter content was: "#REDIRECT[[2020]]" (for a few years)"
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[Fran]
[gRegorLove]
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[Fran]
(argh, slack)
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /Medium (+727) "clean up business model pivot criticism"
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[Fran]
The IndieForums concept sounds interesting, but to interact with it you would already need a running website. Not exactly friendly to newcomers
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tantek.com
edited /Planning (+0) "/* Summit */ 10th actually. only had 9 from 2011-2019 so far"
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /Medium (+197) "Clean up nagware section"
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tantek.com
edited /2021 (-30) "update verbs and such"
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tantek.com
edited /IndieWebSummit (+12) "r to new page"
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tantek.com
created /IndieWeb_Summit (+823) "stub a general page about summits, dfn summary of how they are different, link to past summits, next summit planning"
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tantek.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+383) "participants instead of attendees. Camps try to avoid having spectator-only folks. Exception to number of participants, Summits have more"
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tantek.com
edited /2022 (+33) "camps template, SA"
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tantek.com
edited /2023 (+33) "camps template, SA"
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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tantek.com
edited /2020 (+22) "SA"
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tantek.com
edited /2023 (+26) "linky"
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tantek.com
edited /2022 (+26) "linky"
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tantek.com
edited /2021 (+26) "linky"
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tantek.com
edited /2020 (+4) "linky"
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jacky joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /Github_Actions (+109) "link dfn, add dfn markup, minor wording, linky, SA"
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capjamesg
β€œlinky” β€” I love it haha.
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tantek.com
edited /IWS (+12) "r to new page"
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tantek.com
edited /Summit (+11) "r to new page"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Summit_this_year (+9) "fix double redirect"
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[tantek]
so much gardening
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aaronpk
🌱
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tantek.com
edited /own_your_data (+249) "see related POSSE at the top in case folks come here first"
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /Medium (+1) "Organize other criticism"
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Loqi
hey Tantek can you check /what_to_post and /why_post to see if they are new pages today and if not, copy/del/recreate them so they show up in https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html#new-wiki-pages ?
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Loqi
Countdown set by [tantek] on 2024-03-15 at 7:36pm UTC
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[tantek]
and back in
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tantek.com
deleted /what_to_post "content was redirect then stubbed today by extracting from [[post]] by alexsirac.com (thank you!); recreating so it shows up as a new page in the newsletter"
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tantek.com
created /what_to_post (+923) "recreating so it shows up as a new page in the newsletter; was stubbed earlier today by extracting from [[post]] by alexsirac.com (thank you!)"
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tantek.com
deleted /why_post "content was redirect then stubbed today by extracting from [[post]] by alexsirac.com (thank you!); recreating so it shows up as a new page in the newsletter"
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tantek.com
created /why_post (+2621) "recreating so it shows up as a new page in the newsletter; stubbed today by extracting from [[post]] by alexsirac.com (thank you!)"
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tantek.com
edited /User:Rosano.ca (+30) "Infobox has been fixed to not pollute p-summary parsed value with CSS. Undo revision [[Special:Diff/93691|93691]] by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])"
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[tantek]
done cleaning up my (recent) messes at least
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[tantek]
[contact898]++ again for being bold and creating new articles for "why post" and "what to post" β€” appreciated!!
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Loqi
[contact898] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /Medium (-15) "accessibility improvements to lists (prevent gaps in ul)"
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /Medium (-9) "I think we can safely say this isn't a stub"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Github_Actions (+137) "automation tools in dfn, indieweb sites one possible use, stub IndieWeb Examples section"
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tantek.com
edited /post (+192) "clean-up dfn, be more specific, contrast with page, link to related pages in prose context"
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gRegor
what is github actions
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Loqi
GitHub Actions are automation tools for Github that can be used to publish changes for flat-file content management and static websites, or for testing IndieWeb software https://indieweb.org/Github_Actions
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gregorlove.com
edited /Docker (+123) "dfn link, relevance, IndieWeb capitalization"
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tantek.com
edited /Github_Actions (+212) "Why / Deployment"
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gRegor
!tell lifeofpablo Want to add your Docker use/experience to https://indieweb.org/Docker#IndieWeb_Examples?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor
MW syntax, like math, is sometimes hard :D
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www.ciccarello.me
edited /silo-quits (+370) "/* Silo quits to File */ Suggest moving silo-quits to silo pages"
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aaronpk
back when twitter existed, we had !rt which required two people to !rt a tweet and then Loqi would go retweet it
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tantek.com
edited /post (+235) "How to parse a post is for web developers"
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aaronpk
should we have a similar command for indienews?
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[Paul_Robert_Ll]
Back from dinner. Thanks for those edits [tantek]! Good to get the Summit/Camp distinction in there.
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[tantek]
yes aaronpk we have discussed this πŸ˜‚
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aaronpk
i suppose i don't even have to modify indienews to do this, i just have to get the chat logs or sometihng on loqi.me to create a bookmark post
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tantek.com
edited /post (+22) "/* What to post */ main what to post"
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tantek.com
edited /post (+37) "/* What to post */ main what"
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Loqi
Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-15.html
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Loqi
[preview] [aaronpk] for news.indieweb.org, who should be allowed to delete posts? same policy as the wiki and events? anyone who logs in?
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tantek.com
edited /post () "(-1451) /* Brainstorming */ why post has its own page now"
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aaronpk
hm, moderation queue is harder
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tantek.com
edited /why_post (+1254) "move brainstorming for this from /post to here"
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tantek.com
edited /post (+71) "/* Why post */ restore past id in case it was being used"
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[tantek]
going to take some work to bump "to-do" off recent pages
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[Paul_Robert_Ll]
At what point usually does a camp move from /Planning to getting it’s own wiki page? Once there’s organisers, a date and a venue?
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gregorlove.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (-48) "/* Meetings */ mv Nuremburg to "popups" status since they've had a few recently"
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gRegor
[bjoern], are there notes for the recent Nuremburg HWCs? I've been adding them on https://indieweb.org/Template:Homebrew_Website_Club as wiki pages to be created.
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[tantek]
[Paul_Robert_Ll] that and when the wiki page for the camp itself is setup, then it makes sense to create the /Planning subpage under the camp's wiki page and move the /Planning content there
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[Paul_Robert_Ll]
Cool – I noticed this the other day, an aspect I missed. Will include that in my updates!
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[tantek]
and it's not-critical either so sometimes happens after the camp too which is fine
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[tantek]
almost more of an archival function
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[tantek]
though it can (and has sometimes) also be used to continue doing planning for other aspects of the camp.
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[tantek]
goal is to capture/archive the thinking / discussions that went into the initial planning like options for venues that were explored (why some didn't work out, or one venue was preferred over another), options for dates that were discussed and how many folks expressed a preference for which date options, how many folks expressed interested in participating (vs how many and who showed up)
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[tantek]
this kind of background helps prospective planners see some of the background of how past camps came into existence, step by step, involving the community and hopefully provide a kind of implicit set of steps they can take as well as demystifying some of the initial ideating -> announcing steps
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aaronpk
ok who wants to help me test the !news command
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aaronpk
i need another post to submit
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Loqi
Thanks! We need one more person to confirm the submission to IndieNews!
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Loqi
[indienews submission by aaronpk and capjamesg] "Use a penguin avatar to navigate my personal website" https://jamesg.blog/2024/03/12/penguin-avatar/
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aaronpk
next step actually submitting it from the chat logs
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Loqi
[preview] Use a penguin avatar to navigate my personal website
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capjamesg
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 39 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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[tantek]
wait, when it works we'll see a notification of "[indienews] New post:" in #indieweb right?
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capjamesg
Wait... it didn't submit.
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capjamesg
Oh, you're still doing that bit?
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+544) "Add a date as something you will need, with things to consider when choosing one"
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aaronpk
yeah, two steps
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aaronpk
now it's in the chat logs, next i need to submit from the chat logs to indienews
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[tantek]
I have a sneaking suspicion that in less than a minute we'll see another update of the Newsletter but it won't be sent out because Loqi's newsletter generation still doesn't understand DST πŸ˜‚
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[tantek]
and here we go!
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[tantek]
or it just stopped?
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Loqi
Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2024-03-22.html
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aaronpk
aw manual regen fail
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aaronpk
well hope the last one is good enough!
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aaronpk
next week's has a head start
jacky joined the channel
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kvibber.com
edited /file-storage (+15) "/* Flat file "CMS" systems in the wild */ Add Eleventy to the list of flat-file CMSes"
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[aciccarello]
I'm not touching this today but I threw out an idea about documenting silo quits (reposting for visibility): https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=94106&oldid=93573&rcid=93993
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kvibber.com
edited /database-antipattern (+0) "/* community split */ Move Eleventy from the database list to the file-storage list"
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+203) "Begin tidying up list of activities to do before an event"
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aaronpk
now i need to figure out how to find that permalink and actually send a webmention
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Loqi
[preview] [Loqi] Use a penguin avatar to navigate my personal website
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+50) "Move family-friendliness into own section, link to from venue"
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (-65) "More updates to before list"
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[tantek]
epic newsletter this week! well done everyone!
claudinec joined the channel
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+28) "Move catering into the week before section"
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+5) "Move packing under the week before"
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tantek.com
edited /why_post (+190) "/* See Also */ be more explicit about differentiating why blogging vs why post"
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capjamesg
aaronpk The newsletter came out a bit sparse.
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aaronpk
ignore that last one, that's next week's
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aaronpk
oh no did it actualyl send that out??
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[tantek]
yes, got the email
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aaronpk
dammit
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[tantek]
math is hard πŸ˜‚
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capjamesg
That's the theme of the day.
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aaronpk
that's what i get for trying to fix things
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[tantek]
shall I start the /math#IndieWeb_Examples section? πŸ˜‚
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capjamesg
If my Taylor Swift bot was up, I could have retrieved a quote from the song _This is Why We Can't Have Nice Things._
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aaronpk
well the website and feed are correct, so hopfully more people read that
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www.claudinec.net
edited /User:Www.claudinec.net (+108) "placeholder intro"
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jacky joined the channel
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (-184) "Consolidate signage/printables content"
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www.claudinec.net
edited /chat-names (+117) "/* A-C */ add claudinec"
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (-112) "Split After section into sub-sections"
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paulrobertlloyd.com
edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+261) "Arrange a Pre-Event Social"
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gRegor
robots_text << [https://coryd.dev/posts/2024/go-ahead-and-block-ai-web-crawlers/ Go ahead and block AI web crawlers]
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Loqi
Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "robots_text" or similar
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gRegor
robots_txt << [https://coryd.dev/posts/2024/go-ahead-and-block-ai-web-crawlers/ Go ahead and block AI web crawlers]