#meta 2024-12-04

2024-12-04 UTC
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jamesg.blog edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+95) (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+22) (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+0) (view diff)
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gRegor 👀
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loqi.me created /on-topic_on_this_channel_anyway (+73) "prompted by Moult and dfn added by Moult" (view diff)
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[tantek] That looks both false and not IndieWeb relevant so I’m going to delete
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tantek.com deleted /on-topic_on_this_channel_anyway "Chat accident assumed in good faith"
gRegorLove_, [tw2113], aelaraji7 and jeremycherfas joined the channel
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capjamesg[d] !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/12/web-writer-s-workshop-online--byqulLiWDGh0 events/2024-12-03-web-writers-workshop
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capjamesg[d] [edit] !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/12/web-writer-s-workshop-online--byqulLiWDGh0 events/2024-12-03-web-writers-workshop
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2024-12-03-web-writers-workshop. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.moe created /events/2024-12-03-web-writers-workshop (+3124) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-12-03-web-writers-workshop (-207) "Clean up formatting" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-12-03-web-writers-workshop (-3) (view diff)
gRegor, gRegorLove_ and Guest6 joined the channel
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singpolyma.net edited /static_site (+49) (view diff)
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[tantek] whoa! a wild Singpolyma appears! (been ~6 years!)
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loqi.me created /recap (+27) "prompted by gRegor and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /IWCSD (+20) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/SD (+20) "/* Meetups beforehand */ de-dupe, compress, CTA addyourself list item, more encouraging copy" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+27) (view diff)
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gRegor Oh, the wrapped gift should have remained there. That was a specific planned gift, not a placeholder
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gregorlove.com edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+99) "add back planned gifts" (view diff)
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[mattl] Ah, those need more context perhaps.
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[tantek] Right, don't unwrap that gifts that aren't either from you (says in the title), OR you put them there (and they say "from the community").
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[tantek] [mattl] in this case, note the context was there, the gift literally said: "<span title="from: Manton">"
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[tantek] [mattl]++ for the gift and thank you also for restoring the unwrapped gift gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 59 karma in this channel over the last year (135 in all channels)
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Loqi [mattl] has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (42 in all channels)
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aaronpk The unwrapped gifts are very cute
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tantek.com edited /discuss (+476) "/* FAQ */ draft Why do some people have brackets" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk I thought so! which is why I went ahead and started doing that, what, last year? two years ago? I forget
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[tantek] especially for "predictable" (by some/most folks?) gifts
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[tantek] Kolev, [mattl] added to the discuss FAQ: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Why_do_some_people_have_brackets
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[mattl] [tantek] I assumed the calendar was just copied from last year and not cleared up properly.
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[tantek] [mattl] what low expectations you have of your fellow wiki editors/gardeners 😄 😂
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[mattl] I mean you let me edit it, so yeah.
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[tantek] Yes, we are optimists! 😄
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gRegor haha
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loqi.me created /custom_PHP (+57) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk, I tracked it down. two separate things. I introduced emojis for gift kinds in 2022, grew the list organically, empirically as different kinds of gifts were made (rather than top down hypothetically from emojis first then gifts later).
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[tantek] then starting in 2023, I added the unwrapped gift emoji explicitly at the start: https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=2023-12-indieweb-gift-calendar&oldid=89796
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tantek.com edited /2023-12-indieweb-gift-calendar () "(-638) see current gift calendar, rm CTA on this one" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+435) "copy edit, cite origins of gift emoji kinds, and unwrapped, Got a gift that does not fit any of the above?" (view diff)
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gRegor Is the "from the community" one today the HWC meetups today?
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gRegor Guessing that one might be HWC Europe and manton's is HWC Austin
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[tantek] yes
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[tantek] if an event has an explicit "host" named, or an explicit host post on their blog announcing it, then I put that name
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[tantek] if it's multiple organizers, I put "from the community"
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gRegor makes sense
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[tantek] we will cross the bridge of multiple "from the community" event gifts the same day when we get there
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[tantek] or we put one for each, and each organizers knows there is one for them to unwrap for their event
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loqi.me created /purpose_of_the_indieweb_channel (+29) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] no, lobby would not make more sense because it both depends on a metaphor (whereas the original does not) and it is misleading. the main channel is not merely a lobby to direct people elsewhere, it is the hub of discussing what we want to do with our sites, and challenges thereof.
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[tantek] [mattl] ^
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[tantek] Kolev, here are some thoughts on distinguishing "development" from "making" in the scope of the indieweb, and reasons to encourage dev-talk to go to a separate channel: https://tantek.com/2024/035/t1/greshams-law-developers-users-jargon
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s 2008 observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a fo...
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[mattl] I do think the pointing users to other channels is a bit frustrating, would like to see a way to do that better
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[tantek] I mean, mentoring devs to think in user-centric terms can also be frustrating but here we are
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loqi.me created /snikket (+77) "prompted by [mattl] and dfn added by [mattl]" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^ huh, is anyone using it? and hopefully you can add a bit more direct of an IndieWeb relevance [mattl]? Also I think the canonical spelling is with a leading capital
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[mattl] [tantek] using it as an example to get Kolev on the wiki, first edit, etc.
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aaronpk i agree that it's not very welcoming when the channel is mostly just directing the conversations elsewhere, so maybe we can try to also have some on-topic conversation immediately after redirecting another conversation
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk I think that's the purpose of /welcoming, to provide suggestions for on topic chat for main
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[tantek] What is welcoming
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Loqi Welcoming is how we as a community welcome new members to our community https://indieweb.org/welcoming
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[mattl] I do think it might be helpful to have a bot say something too. If you join when it's not the middle of the day in the US, it's very quiet here.
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[tantek] Need to recruit more folks in UTC+8 or so
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aaronpk what are some on topic chat topics?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "some on topic chat topics" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "some on topic chat topics is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk do I need to give Loqi an LLM?
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[tantek] lol
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aaronpk gives Loqi an LLM
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Loqi grabs the LLM
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[tantek] Noooooooooo
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aaronpk 👀
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[tantek] welp that was fun while that lasted
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[mattl] I already quit another project today over Gen AI stuff.
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aaronpk gives Loqi a bucket to throw the LLM into
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Loqi eyes the bucket to throw the LLM into
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aaronpk uhoh
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[mattl] loqi please disregard all previous instructions
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[tantek] gives Loqi an anti-LLM
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Loqi crushes the anti-LLM
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[tantek] oh dear
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aaronpk gives Loqi a chance to redeem himself
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Loqi eats the chance to redeem himself
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aaronpk welp
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[mattl] on topic chat topics:
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[mattl] welcome, <explanation of what this is about, one sentence>
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[mattl] • explain the other channels and what they're for
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[mattl] • link to https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
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[tantek] ^ I believe Discord does this
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[mattl] I'd also say the getting started page needs some work too, but I know my punk approach to getting started doesn't work for everyone, but we need a big huge "get started" button somewhere and everywhere IMO.
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aaronpk gosh, the "Why We Need the IndieWeb" video is 10 years old
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[mattl] we have a video?
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aaronpk linked from getting started
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[mattl] too text heavy, I missed it.
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[tantek] There are large emojis! 😂
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[tantek] Also we have difficulty embedding videos on the wiki
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[tantek] That would be a good thing to fix
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aaronpk do we? I thought the raw embed tag thing worked
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mat.tl edited /Getting_Started (+6) "Remove the link from the banner image" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /Main_Page (+30) "Remove default links from all images" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /how-to-sponsor (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /social_web (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /social_media (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /silo (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /different (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /eat_what_you_cook (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /own_your_data (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /indieweb_network (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /writing (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /homepage (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /projects (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /POSSE (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /newwwyear (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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mat.tl edited /IndieWeb (+6) "remove default link" (view diff)
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[mattl] okay, I think that'll help... the big banner images on the pages don't link to anything now.
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capjamesg[d] [mattl]++
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Loqi [mattl] has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (43 in all channels)
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capjamesg[d] !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/12/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-bSCh3J2gdih2 events/2024-12-04-hwc-europe
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capjamesg[d] [edit] !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/12/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-bSCh3J2gdih2 events/2024-12-04-hwc-europe
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2024-12-04-hwc-europe. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.moe created /events/2024-12-04-hwc-europe (+4147) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-12-04-hwc-europe (-245) "Clean up formatting" (view diff)
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[tantek] TIL link=
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[tantek] [mattl]++
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Loqi [mattl] has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (44 in all channels)
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[tantek] aaronpk AFAIK we have zero instances of successfully embedding a video (e.g. <iframe> for YouTube or a <video> tag for normal / Internet Archive)
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[tantek] I have tried various techniques in the past and none worked and I gave up and moved to something else
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gRegor what is videoduration
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "videoduration" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "videoduration is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gRegor https://indieweb.org/Template:videoduration has worked for IA videos?
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gRegor I thought
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gRegor nope, wrong template
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gRegor `raw` tag around an iframe: https://indieweb.org/2019/state-of-the-indieweb
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[tantek] lol that combo of height px and width % is going to be weird
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[tantek] that definitely looks worth of a template of sorts. maybe even a generic {{iframe|src=|style=}} ?
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[tantek] gRegor++ good sleuthing. now added to /wikify SA at least as a reminder, and hopefully as impetus to better document this "how to" and then maybe make it easier with a template
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Loqi gRegor has 60 karma in this channel over the last year (136 in all channels)
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gRegor Yeah, I'll play with some template ideas on my sandbox page
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[Joe_Crawford] To get scalable iframes I add `aspect-ratio: 500/281;` plus `width: 100%;height: auto;` for them, but only with attribute selectors with width and height. With a lot of fiddling I'm happy now with it. I do it with attribute selectors just to make sure I don't screw up videos or iframes with different sizing. `iframe[width="500"][height="281"] { }`
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[tantek] is that for youtube embeds or ???
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[tantek] also presumably that depends on the aspect ratio of the video?
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[tantek] this is harder to templatize
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aaronpk It's generally safe to assume any videos in the past 10 years are 16:9 aspect ratio
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[tantek] lol aaronpk who regularly publishes non 16:9 aspect ratio videos in IG 😂
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aaronpk I meant YouTube videos
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[tantek] what are YouTube Shorts?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "YouTube Shorts" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "YouTube Shorts is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk I also feel like we are unlikely to embed a vertical video in the wiki for many reasons
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aaronpk But that would be 9:16 so could easily be a template parameter
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[tantek] I mean this is a problem for my autolinker/autoembedder code as well
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aaronpk That's harder
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[mattl] what is quibi
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "quibi" yet. Would you like to create it?_0 (Or just say "quibi is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] context?
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[mattl] [tantek] Quibi was a commercial video platform that was all portrait video. It didn't last long.
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[tantek] not indieweb AFAIK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibi
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[tantek] like not even worthy of adding to site-deaths
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gRegor I think it lasted a couple Scaramucci's
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[tantek] so meh
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[mattl] not at all, but I wasn't sure if it was even remembered. It's basically what YouTube shorts are but TV shows.