#microformats 2016-05-18

2016-05-18 UTC
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velorina edited /hcard-advocacy-fr (+29) (view diff)
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@lidyacota that it is possible to express meaning on the web in HTML in a simple way far simpler than the complex alternatives http://microformats.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/732768012348985345)
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@strongerhead One of the longest testimonial that can be termed as essay by Lifang. http://strongerhead.com/testimonial/?wpcrp=1#hreview-313 (twitter.com/_/status/732818818771374080)
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@migueldelmazo microformats https://dev-website.nc43tech.com/user/1458236345-209a1b43-04fc-49eb-921d-9377ecbc6456 (twitter.com/_/status/732881038926565376)
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@dylanbeattie @RehanSaeedUK JSON+HAL is kinda like HTML+microformats - it's still the same language, but offers rich semantics to clients that support it. (twitter.com/_/status/732891355077304320)
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willnorris I seem to recall reading somewhere that microformats2 references a section of an HTML spec for how it formats dates. Specifically, that is uses a space between the date and time rather than a "T" like is sometimes common. But now I can't find that reference anywhere. Does anyone know where that is specified?
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willnorris http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Date_and_time_parsing talks about using the "T" separator, but I think that's targetted at microformats1?
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willnorris (by the way, is anyone at OSCON this week by chance?)
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kylewm tantek^^ did you see will's question?
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tantek hmm
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tantek checks logs
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tantek darn willnorris left the channel
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tantek !tell willnorris yes microformats2 prefers space between date and time, there's an outstanding resolved issue on this to make this more clear: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#parsing_a_dt-_property
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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willnorris (I'm at OSCON, so dropping in and out of IRC as I move between sessions... working on getting znc setup. Checking logs though)
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Loqi willnorris: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 5 minutes ago: yes microformats2 prefers space between date and time, there's an outstanding resolved issue on this to make this more clear: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#parsing_a_dt-_property
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willnorris tantek, at https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-25#t1461606553653 you mention "Date and time keeps the authored level of specificity". Where is that quoted from?
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tantek hopefully the microformats2 spec :)
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willnorris can't find it
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willnorris where "spec" == http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2 ?
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tantek parsing spec
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tantek now I'm having trouble finding it
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willnorris part of the problem (I think) is that the parsing spec links to the value-class-pattern page for dt-* values. And I think that page is trying to cover both mf1 and mf2. that's mostly fine, but there are a few small changes I think
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tantek yes, and those problems should be documented here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#parsing_a_dt-_property
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willnorris I've been knee deep in writing dt-* parsing code the last couple of days, and running into a handful of discrepencies between how I'm interpreting the parsing spec and what the microformats/tests repo (and other implementations) say
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willnorris I'll try and get them captured on the issues page
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tantek then this is a good time for me to update vcp per the issue resolutions
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willnorris yeah, I think that'd be great
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aaronpk Oh fun
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willnorris also, I found the "Authored level of specificity should always be kept in dates." quote. It was a comment from Glenn on the parsing-issues pages
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tantek yes
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tantek interestingly, while avoiding that overspecificity for seconds, it makes sense for minutes
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tantek e.g. when humans communicate times in whole hours (of the clock), they are strongly implying :00 minutes
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tantek that is they are still implying that precision. they are not implying "sometime during that hour"
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tantek whereas that's not true with seconds.
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tantek it's an interesting case where the human behavior is different, so the spec should match that
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tantek edited /value-class-pattern (+177) "per http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#parsing_a_dt-_property, do not imply 00 seconds, ok for minutes though because common use" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+328) "/* parsing a dt- property */ Consensus resolutions: Drop value-class-pattern implying 00 seconds" (view diff)
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willnorris tantek: those parsed values still show the use of "T" rather than a space separator. Is that still the recommendation, or should that be updated? Not sure if you feel like there was consensus on that
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tantek working on that update now
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tantek like code changes, sometimes I prefer atomic spec updates, especially to older more stable specs
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tantek edited /value-class-pattern (+369) "more updates for do not imply 00 seconds (except artificial precision needed by iCalendar and Atom), use " " char for separator if needed" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+144) "/* parsing a dt- property */ Value-class-pattern parsing should instruct to use a single space as the separator" (view diff)
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tantek !tell willnorris like code changes, sometimes I prefer atomic spec updates, especially to older more stable specs. Regardless, vcp parsed values now use " " (space char) separator rather than "T" when combining separate date and time. No consensus on *replacing* *author* use of "T" as separator (leave as is seems to be the sentiment)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+200) "/* parsing a dt- property */ dropped: replace a "T" separator (when authored that way) with a single space" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+36) "resolved "parsing a dt- property" issue" (view diff)
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tantek !tell willnorris all those dt-* parsing issues should be resolved now: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#parsing_a_dt-_property let me know if you have any more questions!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell willnorris also, would love to see you at the IndieWeb Summit! http://2016.indieweb.org/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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willnorris hi loqi
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Loqi willnorris: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 3 minutes ago: like code changes, sometimes I prefer atomic spec updates, especially to older more stable specs. Regardless, vcp parsed values now use " " (space char) separator rather than "T" when combining separate date and time. No consensus on *replacing* *author* use of "T" as separator (leave as is seems to be the sentiment)
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Loqi willnorris: tantek left you a message 42 minutes ago: all those dt-* parsing issues should be resolved now: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#parsing_a_dt-_property let me know if you have any more questions!
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Loqi willnorris: tantek left you a message 40 minutes ago: also, would love to see you at the IndieWeb Summit! http://2016.indieweb.org/
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@tlksio Microformats with Tantek Çelik http://tlks.io/talk/microformats-with-tantek-celik via @repejota (twitter.com/_/status/733009267578540033)
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tantek wat
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tantek tlksio is a place for finding talks
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tantek I feel like this is a pattern. People are frustrated by not being able to find something (web search fail / Google / Yahoo etc.), so they build a silo to collect all the stuff which is then horribly incomplete and eventually likely dies of neglect, or acquishutdown.
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omarhuanca hi everyone
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omarhuanca I have a question about image about structure hentry
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tantek hello omarhuanca what is your use-case you're trying to use h-entry for?
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omarhuanca I use h-entry for my project, current I need document about this
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tantek great!
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tantek can you add your h-entry page(s) to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Examples_in_the_wild ?
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tantek Reminder US West Coast folks! HWC tonight in LA, SF, PDX!
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omarhuanca maybe a image about structure?
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tantek I don't understand what that means - could you give an example?
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omarhuanca I have a example, I need a image represent items
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