#microformats 2018-11-06

2018-11-06 UTC
jgmac1106, [Khurt] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
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@ChrisAldrich
I wish I could attend this talk by @gRegorLove. If you're a web developer or designer in the San Diego area, I highly recommend you attend as there aren't many people who could speak on the important topic of #microformats as well as he can. #PHP @SDPHP https://boffosocko.com/2018/11/05/rsvp-an-introduction-to-microformats-november-7-2018/
(twitter.com/_/status/1059632195680165888)
[asuh], wakest[m], [kevinmarks], [pfefferle], [dave], [tantek], [schmarty], tglobe, [Rose], [abhi], mblaney, [markmhendrickso, [Vincent], [aaronpk], larry, [eddie], [jgmac1106], [tonz], [Khurt] and [tmiller] joined the channel
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sknebel
would like further comments on https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/37 - I too think the spec is clear, but php-mf2 is diverging from other parsers here (https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/issues/205) and I'd like that to be cleared up either way (mixed formats appear in WP quite a bit, so we actually have differing behaviour in the wild)
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Loqi
[gRegorLove] #37 Clarify parsing for mf2 property + mf2 root inside mf1 root
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[aaronpk]
Oh weird i thought we just did a round of updates to the php parser to fix this kind of thing
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[aaronpk]
Maybe we missed this particular case
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sknebel
that was about *roots*
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sknebel
think I fixed hte same in mf2py
dmcweeney, ZegnatAtWork, [Khurt], kisik211, [schmarty], [eddie], [kevinmarks], KartikPrabhu, [pfefferle], [jgmac1106], jackjamieson and [aaronpk] joined the channel
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gRegorLove
I follow the reasoning on #37, but it would still like to clarify that "and is a property element" means what was identified in the earlier steps as a `property element`
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gRegorLove
vs. the general concept of a property element (mf1 or mf2 agnositc)
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gRegorLove
*agnostic
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sknebel
ah, ok
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gRegorLove
Maybe even just some formatting the term, like we do on https://indieweb.org/authorship#How_to_determine
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sknebel
yeah, following the lines quoted by kartik it defines property element: " if such class(es) are found, it is a property element"
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sknebel
maybe changing the order works? "find property elements by inspecting the classes: a) if it is a backcompat root, b) otherwise ..."?
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[kevinmarks]
why is the python parser not seeing the u-photo inside the e-content here? https://fireburn.ru/photo/bug-in-comments/
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sknebel
(it also does with the crappier html parsers)
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[kevinmarks]
hm, what version do I have in unmung?
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GWG
Zegnat, been thinking about bookmark-of to read-of
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GWG
Why can't a bookmark turn into a read post? Instead of both properties
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Zegnat
It can do that too. Just makes it not be a state of a bookmark
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GWG
Yes, but it's no longer a bookmark possibly if I read it
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gRegorLove
read-of should definitely be considered experimental and we should look into ways to consolidate and re-use
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gRegorLove
same for read-status
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[jgmac1106]
I see them as different uses. Bookmark is an archiving tool, read post note an action "I read this"
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GWG
Gregorlove, read status started this conversation
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GWG
I don't want to use it, but I need to reflect unread vs read
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gRegorLove
among listen, watch, and read post types, there's definitely some room for re-use of something to indicate "status"
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[jgmac1106]
So @gwg in your case I might publish two. I would bookmark it and then if I want publish a post saying I read it I could... Or someone could revise a bookmark and make it a read
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gRegorLove
Although "status" itself feels too vague
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gRegorLove
bookmarks can be 'to read later' too. I've often used that.
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gRegorLove
And I post more 'to-read' read-of posts than the other statuses
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GWG
See the problem
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[jgmac1106]
But I think to later, start, finish should be same for read, listen, watchhh...something like dt start and dt finish in events
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[jgmac1106]
For me bookmarks are more social. I use that to build our library... To read and read more personal
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[jgmac1106]
I am still wondering why bookmark not elevated to canon yet. Seems to be enough examples in wild
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Loqi
[gRegorLove] #12 Upgrade u-bookmark-of from proposed to draft property
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gRegorLove
I need to do more research and documenting for other formats and existing practices to portray the information in `read-of` and `read-status`
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GWG
So what do I do?
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gRegorLove
I don't follow. What's the specific question?
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GWG
I was trying to posse to Pinboard but lack a read property
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Zegnat
Also want to throw in that a side comment from aaronpk was to look into some sort of “progress” property. Started/finished/20%/whatever could be the value.
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GWG
I got to him pre coffee
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[jgmac1106]
Maybe status, dt-start and dt-finish could be used for any media..and I could see someone adding a span on a bookmark to also note their status of the media
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gRegorLove
`category` could maybe be used for general status too
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gRegorLove
`p-category="to-read"`
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gRegorLove
That would work for POSSE to pinboard, too, since it supports tags.
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gRegorLove
Hmm, I'm really liking that idea.
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GWG
Pinboard has an explicit read status
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KartikPrabhu
dt-start already has a different meaning for h-event http://microformats.org/wiki/h-event#Properties
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] h-event is a simple, open format for events on the web. h-event is often used with both event listings and individual event pages. h-event is one of several open microformat draft standards suitable for embedding data in HTML. h-event is the microfor...
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gRegorLove
re-use is good, but I think start/end date is a slightly different topic
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KartikPrabhu
re-use is good if the meaning does not change drastically
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KartikPrabhu
like p-name
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gRegorLove
A simpler problem is "how do we convey whether we want to read, are reading, or finished reading?"
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gRegorLove
or some other status.
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gRegorLove
GWG, could you document that on indieweb.org/Pinboard ?
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GWG
Not in the air, but eventually
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: doing that like p-rsvp sounds promising
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KartikPrabhu
use value-class-pattern with some "standard" values and let the text version change according to author preferences
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gRegorLove
That's how p-read-status is being used currently
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KartikPrabhu
right, but the "read" part could probably be made more generic to include other media
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KartikPrabhu
so "read", "watch", "listen" could all be in the same property
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gRegorLove
But it feels overly specific, and since indiebookclub is the primary publisher of it and *only* consumer (that I know of), definitely want to find a better solution
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KartikPrabhu
I guess "p-status" is too generic
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gRegorLove
I'm liking p-category currently, pending any serious consuming uses cases
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gRegorLove
yeah, p-status feels too squishy
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KartikPrabhu
so some "standard" set of values in p-category will be used as a "Status" ?
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gRegorLove
standard, or not. *shrug*
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KartikPrabhu
I mean p-category could have other tags too
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KartikPrabhu
that are mostly useless as read-status
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gRegorLove
Yeah, but no one is really consuming read-status
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KartikPrabhu
no. I am asking how would IBC do it?
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gRegorLove
I say "no one" and "serious consumers" because I don't want IBC to drive this.
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gRegorLove
IBC's main use-case for having a distinct property is to include it in the micropub request.
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gRegorLove
It could send `category=to-read` instead of `read-status=to-read`
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gRegorLove
Yeah, internally IBC would map the human-friendly phrases to specific categories
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KartikPrabhu
right. so there would be a list of allowed ones I suppose
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gRegorLove
It's a drop-down. There's also a text field to enter your own categories, so it would merge and de-dupe
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KartikPrabhu
that would be weird for consumers of read-status
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KartikPrabhu
like category=humperdoo would mean nothing to consumers of read-status
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gRegorLove
I'm not aware of any! :)
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KartikPrabhu
IBC does consume too no?
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gRegorLove
Yeah, but I can easily change that easily. That's what I mean when I say I don't want it to drive this.
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gRegorLove
IBC only consumes if you use the query params to pre-populate the form, which I'm not sure anyone even does.
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[kevinmarks]
There is prior usage of tags for read status in delicious and pinboard
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KartikPrabhu
yeah pinboard was brought up
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KartikPrabhu
wonder what goodreads does, probably a special value