#microformats 2020-06-07

2020-06-07 UTC
KartikPrabhu, [snarfed], [KevinMarks], [schmarty], [jeremycherfas], [tantek], [fluffy], jeremy, Loqi_, milkii, [jgmac1106] and [LewisCowles] joined the channel
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aaronpk who's ready for day 2!
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[schmarty] I am (almost)
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[tantek] waking up slowly
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jacky is in a last minute meeting that'll run until about 10:30 AM
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jacky but I'm 85% confident that you can just plop the nginx configuration from the gist (with `php7.3-fpm` installed and you'll be good to go with at least the blog and wiki)
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jacky munin requires a bit more system configuration
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aaronpk kewl no worries!
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aaronpk alright gonna make another cup of coffe then will be ready to start
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[schmarty] good morning and hello!
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[schmarty] i recall we were working with php7.4 yesterday because it seemed to be the default for ubuntu 20.04 - did we end up rolling that back?
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aaronpk i was going forward with 7.4
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jacky (you can put 7.4 there, it'll work as well)
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jacky I'm guessing y'all figured out a way around the 16.04 max for linode issue
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aaronpk 16.04 is the latest version that media temple runs, so today we're staging it on linode in 20.04
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jacky bet
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aaronpk i also got a DM back from linode that they're willing to talk about sponsoring it so i'm gonna write up a pitch to email to their marketing team
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[schmarty] aww heck yeah
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aaronpk here we gooooo
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[tantek] aaronpk, the current hosting is sponsored but then we got very little support after (post acquisitions etc.) and they never bothered to make https freely available via LetsEncrypt
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[tantek] and it's part of why we felt stuck
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[tantek] so if we're talking to another host about them sponsoring, it's worth asking what does that support over time look like for a "sponsored" site like that, and what the linking requirements are if any
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aaronpk sounds good
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[tantek] to be clear, it's very likely microformats.org still gets A LOT more traffic than indieweb sites and is worth having a solid sponsoring host like that. it's one of the reasons Rohit and I switched from a VPS to a dedicated sponsoring hosting provider that was committed to scaling as needed for site demand (knowing that we were not planning on expanding the set of "apps" running on the server as it were)
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aaronpk as far as i can tell there's nothing in the media temple setup that will do any sort of auto scaling
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aaronpk it's just a beefy VPS
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[schmarty] i also wonder if we could mitigate some of the need-for-beefiness with some caching, etc.
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[schmarty] for example the current wordpress setup has no cache layer at all
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[tantek] scaling != auto-scaling
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aaronpk yeah and tailing the apache logs yesterday it doesn't look like a significant amount of traffic compared to indieweb.org or oauth.net
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[schmarty] and given how rare writes are we could get pretty aggressive with it
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[tantek] it means there's a human (on their side) monitoring whatever they need to monitor and adjusting the hosting as necessary
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[tantek] which is probably why it ended up being a "beefy VPS"
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[tantek] aside: when did "beefy" become a metaphor for strong? was that a deliberate carnivore capitalism marketing campaign? (not missing the irony of seeing it used here from a vegetarian lol aaronpk 🙂 )
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk 104.237.157.157
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aaronpk 45.33.42.194
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[tantek] huh, should those be in the etherpad?
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aaronpk guess so, they're ephemeral
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GWG How goes it?
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aaronpk going well
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GWG Just finished some offline time... wanted to check in
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aaronpk [tantek]: opinions? we need to change <entry-title>h-entry</entry-title> to {{DISPLAYTITLE:h-entry}} on every page, there are somewhere around 200 occurrences. would you prefer that the database is imported with the values swapped (all previous edit history and all old revisions will show the new DISPLAYTITLE syntax), OR after importing the existing database, make new edits to all the pages to make this
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aaronpk change?
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[tantek] the latter IMO
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aaronpk I am leaning that way as well, even if it's more work
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[tantek] make new edits to all the pages to make this change
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[tantek] the principle here is: data integrity, historical integrity, even if it is "just" the wiki source, even if it is "just" markup
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[tantek] added to https://etherpad.indieweb.org/microformats-server-migration methodology section
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aaronpk 👍
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[tantek] funny how we're now abandoning an XMLism (so mid-2000s) to just go back to using the native MediaWiki template syntax (which I'm totally ok with)
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[tantek] also ironic how <entry-title> could literally be a web component custom element as well these days in HTML(5)
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[schmarty] other technologies ate the syntax space, haha
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[schmarty] GWG found a tiny CSS bug. happy to fix on my end but starting to feel the github coordination steps become overwhelming: https://github.com/microformats/microformats-wordpress-theme/pull/1#pullrequestreview-425841668
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@ysamjo ↩ī¸ I'm aware of WebMentions. But as with other Microformats, I don't think they stand a chance without active pushing by big players. I mean it's already late in the game. For example, why are those things not the standard for every wordpress com account? (twitter.com/_/status/1269693680396447746)
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GWG [schmarty]: You said the class was menu-primary in your example... honestly didn't check to see ..
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[schmarty] that's my bad!
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GWG I will be happy to
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GWG Have to get my computer here back together
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[schmarty] i'm a transposer!
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[schmarty] haha there is no hurry.
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GWG Relocated outside NYC for a few days
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aaronpk oh nice email is already completely disabled on the wiki
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aaronpk proposal: deprecate this page: http://microformats.org/discuss in favor of the wiki page http://microformats.org/wiki/irc
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aaronpk or this one http://microformats.org/wiki/discuss
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aaronpk this could use some cleanup :)
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[KevinMarks] Seems like a redirect to the wiki page makes sense
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@simplyAaronS Did Google Search suddenly remove support for Microformats and hreview-aggregate? 2,000+ errors started today "Itemâ€Ļ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269703867027120129 (twitter.com/_/status/1269703867027120129)
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gRegorLove I'll help with the displaytitle wiki edits
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aaronpk want to try scripting it?
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aaronpk should be doable with the MW search and edit API
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gRegorLove The live site has sent emails to me for pw resets
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gRegorLove WordPress, that is
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gRegorLove I'll take a look. not familiar with that api
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aaronpk other option is it's 200 pages and could be done by hand
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aaronpk ( in which case we'd wait until it's actually on the real new server )
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gRegorLove I was thinking the latter. don't think I'll be able to script anything before launch today
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aaronpk well we can't actually launch today since we need info on DNS hosting and also need to find a new web host
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aaronpk so for now we're getting everything ready on a staging server and writing down exact steps to recreate that in the real production environment
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gRegorLove ah ok
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[tantek] great
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[tantek] I have been slowly over time trying to redirect / replace (manually) some of the static pages at the root with wiki pages
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aaronpk ah cool
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[tantek] so in general yes I'd like to move in that direction, helps make those pages easier to update by more people
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aaronpk schmarty left for the day, i'm still working on scripting the entry-title edits
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[tantek] basically wiki as default CMS = much more resilient and scalable in terms of content and accuracy and community updating
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aaronpk current status and open questions are here: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/microformats-server-migration
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[tantek] more so than one-off pages that require editing on the server, or even WordPress "pages"
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[tantek] in general for community resources there's a value/principle of make it something the community can more easily update as more important than make it pretty etc.
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[schmarty]1 lol aaronpk i was just talking w/ amy about all the migration stuff
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[schmarty]1 and with the value of hindsight realized that we could probably have launched an ubuntu 16.04 on mediatemple
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[schmarty]1 then dist-upgraded it to 20.04 while it had nothing on it
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[schmarty]1 then proceeded as normal
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[schmarty]1 and kept the existing hosting / sponsorhip
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[schmarty]1 *sponsorship
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[tantek] Can't count how many "prettier" wikipedia-like attempts there were that got a bunch of $, hired designers, launched with a splash and maybe intitial interest, then died of neglect
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[tantek] pretty != resilient
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aaronpk oh that's a thought
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[tantek] (often the opposite, because it's too hard to maintain the "pretty")
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aaronpk [schmarty]: well i can try spinning up a new server and doing the dist-upgrade right now anyway
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[tantek] yes I know there have been people complaining that the IndieWeb wiki is too boring looking or all the struggle with the home page etc. or people whining why doesn't just use github markdown like the geek workflow they're used to. but they're the minority. the growing number of casual users and contributors (c.f. Wikipedia) is the quiet majority. geeks tend to be the ones that are far more loudly outspoken about their personal preferences for
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[tantek] their personal productivity. mediawiki markup is obv imperfect too, however per Wikipedia it still seems to be the current most decent compromise among a lot of different options.
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[tantek] anyway just ranting a bit, not sure that has any implications for the migration because we're not changing those things now anyway
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[tantek] aaronpk, there are some static pages that I was not able to move to the wiki though, I think with forms and and script and such?
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[tantek] did you want me to try again with those?
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aaronpk those should be all ported over already, they were just html pages with some static files
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[tantek] oh great. then that can continue as a post-migration task
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aaronpk yeah we're real close
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aaronpk woo automatically edited! https://microformats-staging.indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=hatom-issues-resolved&type=revision&diff=69502&oldid=39461
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[tantek] uh coincidentally I got notice from MT that emergency maintenance was necessary on the host
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aaronpk wat
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[tantek] started at 13:50
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aaronpk that's suspicious
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[tantek] "Your hosting settings, including IP address(es), will remain the same -- only the physical hardware will change. The anticipated service interruption will be minimal"
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aaronpk well the good news is if the entire thing blows up we have a complete backup ready to restore now
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[tantek] sounds like a coincidental hardware failure
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[tantek] "In order for this to impact you with as little service interruption as possible, we are currently moving your service to a new host machine."
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[tantek] nah they've been very good about anything like this in the past
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[tantek] it's been 100% transparent with zero loss of any functionality
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aaronpk cool
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[tantek] just minor downtime
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[tantek] started at 13:59
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aaronpk the bot finished all the edits!
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aaronpk https://microformats-staging.indieweb.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
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[schmarty] 🎉
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[tantek] wow
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[tantek] anyway please sign out of the microformats.org server until further notice
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[schmarty] aaronpk++ nice work and great automation++
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Loqi automation has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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Loqi aaronpk has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (226 in all channels)
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aaronpk hmm it didn't find them all
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aaronpk https://microformats-staging.indieweb.org/wiki/events
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Loqi An Introduction to Microformats
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[schmarty] Awww karma's too soon
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[schmarty] Karma'd
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aaronpk i guess i could go through *every page*
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aaronpk search just didn't work i guess
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aaronpk there's only 3500 pages so it fits in a single request for allpages
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aaronpk this is working fine
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aaronpk mediawiki has a nice "bot passwords" feature too
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aaronpk wow search missed a lot of pages
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aaronpk done!
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gRegorLove The libxml changes appear to make php-mf2 work on Dreamhost. Built-in tests are passing; the new grouping doesn't seem to work for me: https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/pull/163#issuecomment-640282185
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: is there a link to the staging site just to see?
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jacky KartikPrabhu: https://microformats-staging.indieweb.org
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gRegorLove Awesome!
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KartikPrabhu looks nice! Let me know if you need CSS help at some point
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (227 in all channels)
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KartikPrabhu jacky++
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Loqi jacky has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (90 in all channels)
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KartikPrabhu [schmarty]++ (also?)
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Loqi [schmarty] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (61 in all channels)
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aaronpk still a half hour in my scheduled time today, i'm going to spin up a 16.04 linode and see if i can upgrade it to 20.04
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aaronpk if that works, then i'll see if i can actually create a new VPS on media temple in the current account
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gRegorLove GWG++ as well
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Loqi GWG has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (135 in all channels)
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KartikPrabhu 16.04 to 20.04! be careful
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aaronpk i know right
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KartikPrabhu might be easier for server software which is more stable (?)
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aaronpk it'll also be a blank machine, nothing on it
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KartikPrabhu aah then possibly yes
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aaronpk successful update to 18.04
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[schmarty] Haha very exciting!!!
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[schmarty] I seriously don't know why that didn't occur to me yesterday
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aaronpk me either haha
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aaronpk normally i don't do system upgrades like this because they're too fragile, but on a brand new machine it seems more likely to work
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aaronpk upgrade to 20.04 is successful!
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[schmarty] Hahaaaaaa nice
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[schmarty] aaronpk++
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gRegorLove woo!
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aaronpk just ran through all the apt installs and looks like everything works?
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aaronpk so uh, i guess i have to see if this actually works on media temple
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aaronpk i'm just scared to press "checkout" on this $100/month shopping cart where i have no idea how the billing works
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aaronpk aha...i can't
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aaronpk no credit card on file, and it's asking me for a new card
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[schmarty] Aahhhh okay
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[schmarty] So we will need to engage with them anyway
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk [tantek]: can you either get me access to the google analytics account or ask whoever has access for some stats on number of monthly pageviews and visitors?
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aaronpk heh i could just swap out the GA code with one on my account for a week and check too
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[tantek] yeah it's benward. I could try sending an email
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[tantek] (not benwerd to be clear)
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