#microformats 2023-07-17

2023-07-17 UTC
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[aciccarello] I saw a verge article with at least 3 different titles.
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[tantek] aciccarello, that sounds reasonable about only returning metaformats if there are no microformats (mf2 I'd say) on the page. I'm expecting that theoretically, there's some chance that invisible OGP *might* be more accurate than broken classic hentry (e.g. WordPress) on the page, though I do wonder if we should special-case WordPress for that.
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[aciccarello] Cool, I'll keep iterating on that and do testing on different sites to see when it makes sense to use the fallback.
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GWG The way [pfefferle] just changed it, it uses microformats then metaformats for any missing elements. But microformats always prevail
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[tantek] GWG, mf2 or even backcompat?
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[tantek] I'm open to that
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[tantek] (to both mf2 mf1 / all)
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GWG mf2, in none of my versions do I consider if it is backcompat.
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GWG php microformats enables it by default
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[tantek] got it, so in the parsed form it "just" looks like mf2 whether it came from actual mf2 or backcompat mf1
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GWG Exactly
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[pfefferle] exactly
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[pfefferle] and then it falls back to WordPress-API, Meta-Header (including OGP and twitter-cards) and finally JSON-LD: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/blob/main/includes/class-handler.php#L22
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[tantek] makes sense that JSON-LD is the lowest, least quality / usage expected.
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[tantek] mf2 > metaformats > JSON-LD
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[tantek] presumably nothing else, like no generic RDFa or eRDF or microdata?
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[pfefferle] we have some dublin core (eRDF) https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/blob/main/includes/Handler/class-meta.php#L83 but there is no real Microdata/RDFa parser implemented yet.
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[pfefferle] but could be easily added
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[pfefferle] oh, there is a lib by [jkphl] but it's quite complex https://github.com/jkphl/rdfa-lite-microdata
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Loqi [preview] [jkphl] rdfa-lite-microdata: RDFa Lite 1.1 and HTML Microdata parser for web documents (HTML, SVG, XML)
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[tantek] yes point being what if any marginal benefit would there be to taking on the ongoing tech maintenance/debt?
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[tantek] like can you name any sites that would get better results because you added the code? if not, it's not worth adding, that's the point
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[pfefferle] I think most site owners would use JSON-LD instead of microdata or rdfa if they implement http://schema.org
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[pfefferle] The bigger problem is sites without any data, like gackerndes for example
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[pfefferle] Hacker-News
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sknebel German auto-carrot is fun :D
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gRegor haha
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sknebel (I was wondering if that was what you intended to write ...)
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sknebel (actually, if I'm going to be slightly mean, that's not a bad label, instead of "orange site" etc...)
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[pfefferle] 😂
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[tantek] wow the Google translation is not an inaccurate reference for HN
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[tantek] [pfefferle] see #indieweb-chat 🙂
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[aciccarello] I was wondering about JSONLD but I figured it would be a pain to parse. Pretty much everyone has some basic meta tags for social sharing.
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[aciccarello] I need to look at that WordPress code
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aciccarello Just found http://microformats.org/wiki/link-preview-brainstorming which should probably be linked to metaformats
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[tantek] oooh and https://microformats.org/wiki/link-preview-formats !
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[tantek] ok will do
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[tantek] only 6-8 year gap between those pages and /metaformats lol
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aciccarello I see the wordpress code has special parsing for site_name. Is there any mf2 representation for that?
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aciccarello I see some thoughts on https://indieweb.org/Site_name but otherwise it doesn't look like it.
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gRegor I think h-app.p-name might be the closest explicit mf2 corresponding to og:site_name
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gRegor But that's mostly used on app-type sites
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gRegor https://microformats.org/wiki/app-examples
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gRegor Just looked at CNN for an example, title element is "Breaking News, Latest News and Videos | CNN", og:site_name is "CNN"
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