#microformats 2023-07-18

2023-07-18 UTC
[jacky], [pfefferle], [jacky]1, [pfefferle]1 and gRegorLove_ joined the channel
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[aciccarello] `h-cite` has a `p-publication` property. That could match the site name.
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[KevinMarks] Or h-feed p-name
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[KevinMarks] note that the Wordpress site-name is a fallback for p-name in h-feed
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[tantek] yes h-feed p-name is the closest to that.
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[tantek] gRegor, it's unfortunate that the title element has turned into a place to jam things for SEO
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[tantek] like you observed with CNN, the title element on many sites is more like a tagline than a title or actual site / org name
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[KevinMarks] That was given as a reason why OGP created a separate og:title
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[tantek] indeed
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[KevinMarks] should I redefine https://www.kevinmarks.com/partialsilos.html as a metaformats test page?
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Loqi [preview] Decaying Silos as dead malls 2018-01-20
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] not redefine, but rather clone to a new URL for testing purposes!
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[tantek] at this point your Decaying Silos page is cited resource, so better to keep it relatively as is
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j​kingweb [KevinMarks] I didn't realize at first that the bottom two, Yahoo! and MySpace, are real. Wild.
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[KevinMarks] The Yahoo one was a physical billboard in San Francisco for years, though I think the MySpace one was a mockup
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j​kingweb Ah, I see.
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[KevinMarks] https://flickr.com/photos/yahooeditorspicks/galleries/72157628043571881/
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[tantek] sad that the blog post that that gallery links to is gone (redirects to generic top level)
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[KevinMarks] there are Instagram and Tinder ones in the original artist's gallery https://www.behance.net/gallery/52646779/Social-Decay
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j​kingweb The Twitter one is certainly apropos lately.
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j​kingweb https://github.com/mensbeam/tests/commit/96cc6f6d6da1b9088cd60ff82e6ba33364c106bd
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j​kingweb This stuff is a mess. 😦
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gRegor I wonder about the made-up h-* root names. Do we have best practice recommendations for or against those in the test suite?
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gRegor I usually try to use a vocab like h-entry even if I'm making up a test, but could just be personal preference.
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j​kingweb I had two reasons:
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j​kingweb 1. I wanted to emphasize the fact that v2 parsing is generic and the same for any vocabulary
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j​kingweb 2. I wanted to make sure that each microformat in a file is distinct in some way, and depending on what's being tested sometimes the only way to make them different is the type
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[tantek] gRegor, yes we have some best practice recommendations for made-up h-* root names, but not specifically in the context of the test suite
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tantek created /extensions (+45) "redirect" (view diff)
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tantek edited /extensions (-7) "better redirect" (view diff)
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[tantek] from the spec: https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#extensions
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[tantek] jkingweb, maybe it would be worth adopting a vendor extension for the test suite unique tests, e.g. h-ts-
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j​kingweb That's a fair criticism. Though I wish it had come sooner. 😛
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j​kingweb It'll be a lot of strings to change.
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sknebel I dont think its really relevant for the tests, total fantasy names are fine there
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[tantek] sure, it's ok if names are very obviously total fantasy names, however if things "look" like a "real" vocabulary then it would be easy for people to mistake them for real
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j​kingweb First-level microformats in the tests would not be confused for real vocabularies, for the most part. I've been less diligent with second-level ones, for brevity. They're usually h-a or h-child when they're not h-not-part-of-test.
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[tantek] indeed, something like h-a sounds generic enough. h-child looks official, especially since there is a children collection in the parsed mf2json output
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aaronpk h-banana
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aaronpk h-octopus
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gRegor h-as-note and some like that were experimented with before I think
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gRegor https://indieweb.org/h-as
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gRegor +1 for h-ts-*
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gRegor "The h-octopus microformat has 8 child elements..."
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aaronpk 😂
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j​kingweb 🐙
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j​kingweb Okay, I'll add a "test" prefix where it's not already clear. That should keep me busy for a while. 😉
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tantek edited /Template:main (+92) "update to multiple params" (view diff)
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tantek created /Template:main/doc (+794) "copy from indieweb" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Template:main (-62) "try simplifying" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Template:main (-5) "simpler" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Template:main (-17) "try 2 params" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Template:main (+62) "try restoring docs" (view diff)
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tantek edited /Template:main (+157) "empty if" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok so I decided I really dislike the MediaWiki feature of "replace the linktext with the h1 title of the destination page" feature of this MediaWiki setup. How do we turn that off, i.e. leave the linktext alone in wikilinks, like the IndieWeb wiki? aaronpk
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[tantek] it's trying to be too clever and frankly has screwed up too many intra-wiki links with bad linktext
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[tantek] like just show the linktext that the user typed into the link, don't go "auto-correct" it by extracting something from the destination
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[tantek] I'm also pretty sure it is interfering with updating the "main" template to allow a conditional and a second optional parameter
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tantek edited /Template:main/doc () "(-794) blank until we've got the weird MediaWiki linktext replacement feature turned off" (view diff)
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aaronpk I don't understand what you mean
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tantek edited /Template:main (-219) "going to stick with a forced second parameter (not optional) until we can turn off the darn MediaWiki "feature" which is unhelpfully replacing wikilink linktext with a page level h1 extracted from the destination (fully ignoring fragments for example)" (view diff)
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[tantek] it's super obvious right there on https://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page
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[tantek] every occurence of a miscapitalized or mispluralized word is due to MediaWiki "fixing" linktext by replacing it with the destination H1
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[tantek] for example: "Write a Testimonals"
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Loqi [preview] microformats.org
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[tantek] the source for that is: * Write a [[testimonial]]
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[tantek] MediaWiki is *unhelpfully* taking that [[testimonial]] wikilink, following any redirects to /wiki/testimonials and then extracting "Testimonals" from the h1 on that page
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[tantek] also note the spread of the typo
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[tantek] "Testimonals" [sic] vs wiki path "testimonials"
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[tantek] can you see it aaronpk? that's MediaWiki screwing things up, not the actual contents of /wiki/Main_Page
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[tantek] we don't have this problem on http://IndieWeb.org
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Loqi [preview] Main Page https://indieweb.org/images/f/fd/2019-summit-day-1-group-animated.gif
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[tantek] is there some option like "smart wikilinktext" or something we can turn off?
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aaronpk I had no idea that was a feature or option
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[tantek] but you see the problem right? and we don't have that nonsense "smart" behavior on http://IndieWeb.org so SOMETHING must be different about the setups
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Loqi [preview] Main Page https://indieweb.org/images/f/fd/2019-summit-day-1-group-animated.gif
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[tantek] not helpful Loqi
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aaronpk i think it's this? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Display_Title
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[tantek] yes that looks suspicious. let's disable it
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[tantek] it doesn't even do the right thing for section links so it's a fundamentally buggy extension
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure it has always been enabled on the wiki
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aaronpk interesting, on the indieweb wiki there is a "displaytitle" parser function, but not that extension
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aaronpk ok I just disabled the extension, I don't know if the result of the extension is cached or something or if you have to save a page to see the diff
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aaronpk looks like the parser function still works, as in this page shows a different title than the URL of the page https://microformats.org/wiki/introduction
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aaronpk I don't know what happened to the main page links showing {{{2}}} now, they were doing that before I disabled the extension too https://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page#Introduction
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gRegor I've gone in to some pages and removed the {{DISPLAYTITLE}} template to fix that previously
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[tantek] well that was opt-in at least per page. now it's not
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gRegor The Edit page used to show a warning about it being an outdated template tag or something. I forget exactly. Should be some mention of it from me in the chat logs.
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gRegor Nice, agreed it's better having it off
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gRegor https://chat.indieweb.org/microformats/2022-09-16#t1663294089388900
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j​kingweb gRegor [tantek] Done. Thanks for the feedback. 🙂
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j​kingweb https://github.com/microformats/tests/pull/126/commits/a69ed8dcda131aa8628213933406d8ab358b0ee6
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[tantek] whoa that's a big PR!
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[tantek] jkingweb++
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Loqi jkingweb has 2 karma over the last year
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j​kingweb And I'm not even close to done yet. But I've found dozens of bugs across the eight parsers I'm spot-checking.
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c​apjamesg jkingweb++
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Loqi jkingweb has 3 karma over the last year
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gRegor jkingweb++
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Loqi jkingweb has 4 karma over the last year