#social 2014-10-28

2014-10-28 UTC
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dromasca
no way to limit broadcasting to groups, circles, etc.
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dret
q+ r: pubsubhubbub also missing mgt parts or the control flow
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Zakim
dret, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
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dromasca
fewer and fewer feed providers are supporting it now
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dret
q+ re: pubsubhubbub also missing mgt parts or the control flow
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford, tantek, dret on the speaker queue
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Lloyd_Fassett
q+
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford, tantek, dret, Lloyd_Fassett on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford, tantek, dret, Lloyd_Fassett, jasnell on the speaker queue
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dromasca
Lloyd_Fassett - open source?
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dromasca
evanpro - not sure, gogle published only the spec
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oshepherd
I think once you reinvent it for ACL'd posts you might as well drop it and lose the complexit yand bagage
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MarkCrawford
With respect to the Federation Protocol, I would hope that we can define a protocol that can support multiple solutions and not limit to LDP or webmention or any other. There are those that are focused on OData driven solutions for outbound feeds and experimentation around federations.
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Arnaud
ack MarkCrawford
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Zakim
sees tantek, dret, Lloyd_Fassett, jasnell on the speaker queue
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tantek
MarkCrawford: there are those using OData for their outbound feeds
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tantek
MarkCrawford: including SAP and Microsoft
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lehawes
Re SubPubHubbub: Lack of access control is a showstopper for social business
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hadleybeeman
is going to pop out — will be with this group for most of tomorrow. Thanks for letting me observe!
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dromasca
MarkCrawford - must it be based on LDP, or webmention - newer cases based on social data
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Zakim
sees tantek, dret, Lloyd_Fassett, jasnell on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees tantek, Lloyd_Fassett, jasnell on the speaker queue
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lehawes
To clarify on MarkCrawford's comment, the social data is published using oData
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Zakim
sees tantek, Lloyd_Fassett, jasnell, evanpro on the speaker queue
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harry
There was a conversation around mapping oData and RDF in W3C ages ago
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Arnaud
ack tantek
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Zakim
tantek, you wanted to reply to elf re: verifying relationships in a distributed social network, why we nounify things even like following
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harry
not sure where that went.
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Zakim
sees Lloyd_Fassett, jasnell, evanpro on the speaker queue
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AnnBassetti
I appreciate Arnaud's skill managing the queue ... makes for a better meeting
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dromasca
tantek - delayed response how to verify relations - every verb becomes a post - list of followers can be linked
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dromasca
evanpro - digital signatures can be another idea
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elf-pavlik
reminds me of hosted and signed assertions in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges
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Arnaud
ack Lloyd_Fassett
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Zakim
sees jasnell, evanpro on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack jasnell
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Lloyd_Fassett
q-
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Zakim
sees evanpro on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees evanpro on the speaker queue
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dromasca
jasnell - many of these techniques based on pings / fat pings (content included)
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Arnaud
ack evanpro
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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dromasca
evanpro - pompeio - inbox endpoint that you ping
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evanpro
pump.io
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dromasca
pumpio
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oshepherd
is very nearly ready to submit his pump.io derived proposal to the WG - sneak peak @ http://oshepherd.github.io/activitypump/ActivityPump.html
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dromasca
we're not ready, open to proposal, may need to wait til next f2f
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harry
ACTION: hhalpin to cycle with Wendy and Google on PUSH licensing
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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RRSAgent
records action 3
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trackbot
Created ACTION-6 - Cycle with wendy and google on push licensing [on Harry Halpin - due 2014-11-04].
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dromasca
Arnaud - what is the next step? not clear yet
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tantek
for federation, perhaps we can start a wiki page like we did for social api?
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evanpro
oshepherd: wow
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dromasca
harry - few suggestions - one draft on http-based api and a strawman proposal for federation
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wilkie
oshepherd: very nice!
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dromasca
ldp work , action handlers work already have owners
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jasnell
elf: not yet. I believe we'll be talking actions in detail tomorrow
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evanpro
Micropub is on there
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elf-pavlik
jasnell, cool! :)
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dromasca
tantek - wiki page for api proposals - add more content?
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harry
that wiki page looks like its covering everything
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dromasca
sandro - ldp only a place holder
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oshepherd
pffft. EVERY TIME I need to log into w3.org on a new device I have to do the forgot my password thing
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dromasca
Arnaud - try to wrap-up
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dromasca
Arnaud - showing agenda for tomorrow
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dromasca
annotation wg - move to 3:30 (to avoid conflict w/ AC meeting)
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elf-pavlik
I wish you all nice dinner! :)
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KevinMarks
is agenda on wiki right for tomorrow?
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tantek
KevinMarks: yes
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oshepherd
I'll be back on tomorrow evening (afternoon your time, I guess). See you all tomorrow
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KevinMarks
so 9am start?
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evanpro
KevinMarks: what are you doing right now?
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evanpro
Come have dinner with us!
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harry
KevinMarks, do you have any recs for food in the area?
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harry
Faultline Brewery?
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evanpro
We need to find a place to eat nearby?
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AnnBassetti
trying to figure out a nearby place to eat
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elf-pavlik
tantek, thanks once again for setting up talky!
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KevinMarks
I'm having dinner at home shortly, sorry
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harry
RRSAgent, generate minutes
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RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html harry
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KevinMarks
hm, not many good palces over that side
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elf-pavlik
signing out 1:30AM here
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tantek
elf-pavlik: you're welcome! glad it worked out.
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oshepherd
Yeah, its 00:30AM here. I'll be back tomorrow after work :)
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KevinMarks
to eat there you're either in the hotels nearby or a drive into town
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tantek
KevinMarks: there's all the places in the Mercado Center too
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tantek
I think we're considering the Italian place
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
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tantek
forgot the name
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Lloyd_Fassett
Informal dinner right now at Tomatino 3127 Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA 95054
bblfish, tantek, npdoty, nvdbleek, Arnaud, jasnell, jtauber, bblfish_, nicolagreco, nicolagreco_, cmhobbs and elf-pavlik joined the channel
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Zakim
excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
pfefferle, pfefferle_, cmhobbs and barnabywalters joined the channel
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rektide
are the 0.8.2 consumer changes different than 0.9.0 consumer rewrite?
Arnaud, nvdbleek, jtauber, AdamB, jasnell, shepazu, lehawes and MarkCrawford joined the channel
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Arnaud
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
Zakim joined the channel
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trackbot
Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 28 October 2014
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wseltzer
rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
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RRSAgent
ok, wseltzer; I will not start a new log at midnight
EdK joined the channel
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MarkCrawford
Arnaut: we did pretty good yesterday. We started out with a loose agenda but ended up filling the whole day. It is always hard at the beginning when we have no preset issues, so we did pretty well.
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MarkCrawford
Arnaut: It is hard to solve a problem that is not well defined. When we talked about Social API, people don't really know what we mean - client or server. If we come to consensus, we can do a better job of solving defined problems. The IG has a broader scope for use cases, and can come up with use cases over time whereas the WG has to clearly identify what we want to focus on in a shorter period of time.
jasnell_ joined the channel
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Zakim
sees sandro on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
Arnaut: There is a feeling that the WG doesn't need to redefine use cases, but we should have a document that we can point to that identifies what we want to focus on. If there is a document that we can leverage, then fine, but we have to agree to do this.
dromasca joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
hopes to get audio (or even video) soon :)
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MarkCrawford
Arnaut: The IG has agreed to initially focus on those that are most important to the WG. the IG report is not important, but we need something for the WG that we can point to that clearly identifies what we are working on and what problems we are trying to solve.
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MarkCrawford
elf: - Tanteck is not here yet
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Arnaud
ack sandro
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
Arnaut: identified use cases prove extremely useful as we move forward to develop our deliverables. This issue came up several times yesterday which just reinforce my thinking.
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MarkCrawford
Sandro: do we need only 3 or so valid use cases to do our work?
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wseltzer
s/Arnaut/Arnaud/g
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Loqi
wseltzer meant to say: rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
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AdamB
can somebody throw in here the link to the swat0 use cases sandro mentioned?
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MarkCrawford
Sandro: a paragraph or so should be sufficient for each use case
AnnBassetti joined the channel
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AdamB
thanks elf!
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AdamB
and others!
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Arnaud
zakim, room for 4
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Zakim
I don't understand 'room for 4', Arnaud
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rhiaro
elf-pavlik: What's the talky address?
bryan_ joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
elf -- we're going to try to get you going with Talky
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
I have a web cam
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Arnaud
ok, we're trying to get talky set up
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elf-pavlik
Thank You :)
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MarkCrawford
elf: the presentation we are about to see is in the IG wiki main page
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elf-pavlik
MarkCrawford, got it!
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elf-pavlik
thx lehawes!
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rhiaro
elf-pavlik talky should be good to go
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elf-pavlik
i'll just watch and listen
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elf-pavlik
pleaes go on!
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elf-pavlik
no worries
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elf-pavlik
we can sort it out during coffee break
wy joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, I see slides directly from pdf
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Social IG Update. Agenda is to talk about work that has preceeded us, review our charter/scope/deliverables, give status update, look at example use cases and next steps.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: slide 2 - review Pre-IG use case work. Social Web Incubator Group has 5 years of effort and at least one solid use case in their final report.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: the other very influential report is the Cloud standards customer Council which has 4-5 solid use cases.
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AnnBassetti
elf, OK .. trying to show you the person presenting ... in this case Larry Hawes .. guy in blue shirt, dark hair
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MarkCrawford
Larry: we have also brought in those already identified by the WG as well as some of our own.
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elf-pavlik
perfect! thanks AnnBassetti :)
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MarkCrawford
Larry: slide 3: charter and scope. Chartered to deliver use case report by 12/31/2016. Intend to harvest existing and produce new use cases that illustrate non-technical requirements.
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AnnBassetti
elf, any idea why my video is split?
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elf-pavlik
no, but let's just roll with it for now
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Slide 4 Deliverables. Use Case and requirements report; Social architecture report (Leveraging Headlights report); social vocabularies inventory.
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AnnBassetti
ok, sorry
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Slide 5 - Membership. Enough to get good work done
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Slide 6 - Process.
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MarkCrawford
Sandro: When is the IG meeting this week?
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MarkCrawford
Larry: during the ad hoc time today
KevinMarks joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
elf, we smell gas in the room ..
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elf-pavlik
it wasn't me!
wei_james joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
sorry we have to leave the room ... we'll be back
jasnell joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
ok, good luck with overcoming those issues!
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Slide 7 - Status. # meetings, task forces. Scenarios are just a narrative for use cases. Use Case is more detailed per our template which will give us a formal way to document and publish them.
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elf-pavlik
I'll keep an eye on the room! you folks can got out get some fresh air :)
bblfish, jasnell, evanpro and jtauber joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
can you hear, elf?
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MarkCrawford
resuming
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MarkCrawford
still on slide 7 status
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elf-pavlik
yes i can hear
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AnnBassetti
we have the doors open, behind me ... is there too much ambient noise
AdamB joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
i can hear good (even better than yesterday!) video got frozen though
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MarkCrawford
Larry: working to categorize use cases and we have a first stab at that on the wiki
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AnnBassetti
hmm .. I see people moving on video
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Slide 8: just read
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AnnBassetti
elf, do you need me to restart video?
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, yes please
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Slide 9 - Next steps: discussed
harry and dromasca joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
hmm .. maybe I need to drop off and come back in
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harry
anyone scribing?
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elf-pavlik
q+ re: any implementations we derrive usecases from? eg: PLP has one https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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harry
I'll do it for a bit
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harry
LarryHawes: Going over a slide-set describing use-cases
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harry
... see wiki for updates
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MarkCrawford
Larry: switched to wiki and discussed how you can find the use case TF from the social ig wiki.
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elf-pavlik
sandro, can you unmute yourself so i can hear?
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harry
... most of focus on profile federation and social data syntax use-cases
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elf-pavlik
please :)
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harry
... we want to work on API and Human interaction, but that's next
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harry
MarkCrawford: We've created a few links to non-existent wiki pages
npdoty joined the channel
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harry
... we will create web-pages in the wiki
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harry
... and use blanks to refine categorization
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harry
... currently red ones are from the W3C Headlights report
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harry
... there's a bit of duplication, will try to refine it.
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harry
LarryHawes: Jump to the use-case themselves
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elf-pavlik
sandro, please mute again :)
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harry
... mapping to the CRUD framework
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, can you unmute please? :)
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harry
... social profile creation
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harry
... its in the template
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AnnBassetti
done
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elf-pavlik
great! thank you :)
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AnnBassetti
can you hear?
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harry
... narrative, actors, goals of actors, success scenario, success criteria, failure criteria
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Social Profile Creation Use Case. We want your feedback on both the template as well as the content.
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harry
... feel free to give us input on the template itlsef
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AnnBassetti
now there's a big fan behind me .. is that too noisy?
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harry
MarkCrawford, you want to take over scribing?
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elf-pavlik
a bit but not a big deal
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Social Profile Creation wiki page
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Working with an openID model around social profile creation such as google that could then be federated to other social profile maintainers.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: Noted Success Scenario and Success and Failure Criteria.
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MarkCrawford
Not crazy about verb: federate.
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MarkCrawford
Sandro: copied or mirrored
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, can you ask tantek to mute?
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MarkCrawford
Harry: do you want to copy, open, or share?
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harry
copy on request to another system or automatically update other systems?
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, your laptop has better sound then tantek's webcam
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MarkCrawford
James: should at least spell out the different options
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AnnBassetti
ok
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AnnBassetti
better?
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MarkCrawford
Larry: some could have graphic representation. We also need to add id for original submitter.
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, yes and with 2 cameras i can now see everything :D
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AnnBassetti
yes, cool
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MarkCrawford
?? How do we get comments?
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AnnBassetti
I wish I could zoom my view
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elf-pavlik
+ remote control ;)
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jtauber
:-)
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MarkCrawford
use cases need to be on individual wiki pages, have comment section, and tolerate inline changes to leverage wiki concept
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cwebber2
oh, are we still doing our meeting today?
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cwebber2
I guess everyone else is at TPAC
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elf-pavlik
cwebber2, join us :)
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MarkCrawford
Larry: federation of Profile Information to a nNew Network or System.
JonathanJ3 joined the channel
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jasnell
Mark: there are two James' in the room :-) ... please show my comments as jasnell to differentiate
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MarkCrawford
Larry: read Social Profile Updates UC
harry joined the channel
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MarkCrawford
Larry: read social Profile Deletion UC
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dromasca
+q
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, dromasca on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik, dromasca, jasnell on the speaker queue
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harry
elf-pavlik, feel free to type question as well
JonathanJ3 joined the channel
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Arnaud
ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss any implementations we derrive usecases from? eg: PLP has one https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs
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Zakim
sees dromasca, jasnell on the speaker queue
dret joined the channel
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MarkCrawford
elf: we have a prototype for the use cases here, wondering if we have others to compare?
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elf-pavlik
we have implementation and i wonder about other implementations
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MarkCrawford
Larry: elf is pointing to a scenario, not something in our UC format.
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elf-pavlik
so we can compare and test interoperability
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud: I don't understand elf's point.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: this is detail oriented, but not UC
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elf-pavlik
do we track somehow implementations?
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud: I am interested in - we just saw an overview of what we saw as profiles. Is that capturing what we are thinking, or is there others that we also need to capture so that my problem can be solved.
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Arnaud
ack dromasca
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Zakim
sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
?? Does profile include privacy options?
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sandro
q+ to ask how this connects to identity, and changing identity
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Zakim
sees jasnell, sandro on the speaker queue
tantek joined the channel
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MarkCrawford
Larry: It should, and i think we tried to capture.
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MarkCrawford
?? I define privacy as between the owner and provider.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: No, we don't currently capture that?
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MarkCrawford
Larry: we have not yet gotten to requirements out of these yet. My vision is you build high level use cases and then build requirements out of that.
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MarkCrawford
?? Is your federated system considered an end to end type of relation?
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MarkCrawford
Larry: that is an implementation choice and there should be a way to control
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MarkCrawford
q+
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Zakim
sees jasnell, sandro, MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack jasnell
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Zakim
sees sandro, MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
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dromasca
?? = dromasca
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Zakim
sees sandro, MarkCrawford, evanpro on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
james: so, the actors in this case we cant create or delete and the system controls. We may be the subject, but not the owner. there is an additional role - profile owner might be the providor.
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Arnaud
ack sandro
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Zakim
sandro, you wanted to ask how this connects to identity, and changing identity
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford, evanpro on the speaker queue
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dromasca
s/Is your federated system considered an end to end type of relation?/Is your federated system considered an n to n type of relation?
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Loqi
dromasca meant to say: ?? = dromasca
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cwebber2
whoo, finally connected
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elf-pavlik
hi cwebber2 :)
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MarkCrawford
Sandro: the way I think of profiles as different than this. Profiles as the art of identity. The way I talk about people is their profile. You frmaed this as like facebook. What are the identifiers?
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rhiaro
So profiles are for personas rather than persons?
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MarkCrawford
Larry: We do not plan to touch ideentity. there is a relationship between these.
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AnnBassetti
cwebber2, can you hear OK?
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AnnBassetti
cool
harry joined the channel
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harry
waves
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford, evanpro, harry on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
q-
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Zakim
sees evanpro, harry on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack evanpro
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Zakim
sees harry on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
evan: I want to express concern about identify management, it is a big topic that has been addressed by other organizations and we may want to defer.
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MarkCrawford
Ann: won't be solved here.
JonathanJ3 joined the channel
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sandro
+1 harry: avoid use of the word "identity", and just deal with profiles
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MarkCrawford
Harry: I have a simple rule - dont use the word Identity as there is confusion when it is used. littany of organizations who deal with this. For this particular use case the word profile helps clarify that we are talking about editing and sharing profiles.
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MarkCrawford
Harry: access control is something that is very hard.
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud: Charter did not address the access control issue because it could be a rat hole so we agreed that we would only address requirements/use cases. Next version of charter can address once we are clear on what we are concerned with.
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Zakim
sees harry on the speaker queue
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harry
ack harry
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack harry
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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AnnBassetti
can you guys hear Tantek? (at far end of room from me)
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elf-pavlik
good enough
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AnnBassetti
good
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MarkCrawford
tantek: I share evan's concern about the use of the word federation. Need to be more clear about what you mean. A lot of us use more specific terms like syndication which is much more specific.
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MarkCrawford
tantek: pushing or pulling is something you can implement to.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: I hope it would be as we do requirements as to what choice we are making. We are purposely trying to find a vague term and once we get to requirmements we can refine.
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MarkCrawford
Larry: may be a difference between business and development.
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MarkCrawford
tantek: whatever thing you are federating, you use the same identifier for that across the network.
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MarkCrawford
tantek: phone number and email are examples of federation across networks
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MarkCrawford
tantek: example of breaking federation is twitter t.co. that is not federation as it breaks the identifier.
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sandro
tantek: It's only federation if you're using the original identifier
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MarkCrawford
tantek: both openID and indiauth use the same identifier.
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Zakim
sees evanpro on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
Evan: we have different ideas about this.
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MarkCrawford
sando: is there another word?
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Arnaud
ack evanpro
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
tantek: looking it up in the context of technology passport and passport number is an example of federation across countries.
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AnnBassetti
q+
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Zakim
sees AnnBassetti on the speaker queue
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AdamB
q+ to share that within the enterprise its common that people have the same identifier / identity across systems
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Zakim
sees AnnBassetti, AdamB on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
me: tanteks vision strikes me as a federated network for a specific id rather than a federated profile.
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evanpro
ack AnnBassetti
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Zakim
sees AdamB on the speaker queue
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jtauber
q+
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Zakim
sees AdamB, jtauber on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
ann: trying to understand the distinction between identifier and federation. IDs like phone number, passport number use to identify me, but I don't see that as federated. the example I have in my brain is where we all create our user profile in boeing where the sys creates a generic profile and the subject can then amplify. We then have sharepoint which creates a separate profile. We want to create where sharepoint pulls the profile.
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MarkCrawford
Tantek - that is not federation, its centralization.
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MarkCrawford
Ann: I don't understand how the passport is federation and not identification
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elf-pavlik
tantek, maybe worth capturing your point somewhere in https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Hypotheticals
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MarkCrawford
q+
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Zakim
sees AdamB, jtauber, MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
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harry
I think Tantek has a very good point BTW
jasnell joined the channel
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MarkCrawford
action - need to define what we mean by federation
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot
Error finding '-'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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harry
i.e. decentralized creations of identifiers that are accepted across different systems
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harry
but arguing is hard
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jtauber
q-
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Zakim
sees AdamB, MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
Ann: we need to collectively define.
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AnnBassetti
and have consensus on our use of these terms
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evanpro
ISSUE: need glossary for terms used in use cases e.g. "federation"
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trackbot
is creating a new ISSUE.
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trackbot
Created ISSUE-5 - Need glossary for terms used in use cases e.g. "federation". Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/5/edit>.
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Zakim
sees AdamB, MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack AdamB
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Zakim
AdamB, you wanted to share that within the enterprise its common that people have the same identifier / identity across systems
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford on the speaker queue
jasnell_ joined the channel
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EdK
q+ to say that business use cases can extend beyond the internal company, i.e. collaborations beyond (in response to AdamB
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Zakim
sees MarkCrawford, EdK on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack MarkCrawford
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Zakim
sees EdK on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees EdK on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees EdK, jasnell_ on the speaker queue
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evanpro
ack EdK
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Zakim
EdK, you wanted to say that business use cases can extend beyond the internal company, i.e. collaborations beyond (in response to AdamB
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Zakim
sees jasnell_ on the speaker queue
bblfish joined the channel
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AnnBassetti
waves at bblfish
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Zakim
sees jasnell_ on the speaker queue
PaulJeong joined the channel
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evanpro
ack jasnell_
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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dromasca
+q
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Zakim
sees dromasca on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees dromasca, evanpro on the speaker queue
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AnnBassetti
MarkC: I want to know, as we share profiles across systems, that we have commonality on profile component definitions
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evanpro
ack dromasca
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Zakim
sees evanpro on the speaker queue
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AnnBassetti
Ann: yes, we will come to the day when we have external partners and suppliers logging in at our firewall
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AnnBassetti
... and we will need to federate profiles in each direction
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evanpro
ack evanpro
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
MarkCrawford joined the channel
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tantek
when two or more orgs agree to federate, they agree to treat each others' identifiers as first-class citizens, use them directly, and expect that users on each system may use them directly, without requiring "local" wrappers/versions of each identifier.
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AnnBassetti
suggests dromasca enter his comments into irc
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MarkCrawford
all - for the last ten minutes my typing was not posting in irc. If you spoke, please enter your comments in irc so we don't loose them
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AnnBassetti
dang computers
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MarkCrawford
Larry: now that we have a better understanding, we can refine what we are doing.
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AdamB
It’s interesting the different perspective that a corporation brings to these situations. Corporation have one unique identifier for an employee, the ‘employee identifier’. That identifier is used in all the systems I use throughout the course of the week so identity isn’t nearly as much of a problem for corporations.
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MarkCrawford
Evan: I want to get more involved
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elf-pavlik
MarkCrawford, cany you copy paste from your machine?
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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dromasca
we seem to be talking about federation of identity information - not all belongs to the social space
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dromasca
i posted the url of prior art work in the scim wg in the ietf - http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-scim-use-cases/
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tantek
Examples of federated orgs and identifiers: phone companies & phone numbers; email hosts & email addresses; countries & passport numbers
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tantek
Non-example: US social security numbers: single provider, many consumers.
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AdamB
There is what we refer to as Human Resources (HR) data and then user provided data. A person cannot delete their HR data but can remove their user provided information.
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hadleybeeman
can talk about identity federation and passports and things, if you want a view from someone who's worked on them
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EdK
EdK discussed that primary "federation" is about profile information between dissimilar systems, primarily between business collaboration efforts e.g. suppliers, university partnerships, etc. This IMHO is beyond identity - for example SKILLS is a profile component, not an identity component.
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud: before we leave, we need to talk about the next F2F meeting. I am hoping that what we have already accomplished these two days convinces folks about the importance of F2F meetings. Perhaps a two day meeting is most reasonable.
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tantek
half-way examples: OpenID and IndieAuth - many *providers* of OpenID & IndieAuth identities, however, not all *providers* also consume all identifiers from other providers.
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud: The F2F is hosted by one of the WG members. Provide a meeting room big enough for the number of expected participants, food, etc.
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hadleybeeman
annbassetti/tantek: Passports are a particularly good example, because they're issued by multiple authorities (countries) and recognised/used by multiple entities (other countries).
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MarkCrawford
Ann: we should be fair to geographic considerations. I need to get permission before I can commit.
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Zakim
sees evanpro on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees evanpro, harry on the speaker queue
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MarkCrawford
Sandro can also volunteer
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elf-pavlik
fair to geograhic considerations - Europe? ;)
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MarkCrawford
Tantek: if folks don't show up they feel left out.
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rhiaro
+1 Europe :)
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MarkCrawford
tantek: Sandro suggested that we try to co-locate with e.g. an IndieWeb camp.
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cwebber2
if doingit near MIT, might be interesting to do it near libreplanet
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cwebber2
time-wise
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MarkCrawford
general back and forth on different locations
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Tsyesika
is from europe
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cwebber2
some relevant people might already be in cambridge :)
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AnnBassetti
thanks Tsyesika
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cwebber2
(libreplanet is the FSF's conference)
#
AnnBassetti
are you, cwebber2?
#
MarkCrawford
Arnaud: not trying to settle anything yet. Question is timing. List of possible dates and locations.
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cwebber2
AnnBassetti: I'm not in cambridge, but I will be for libreplanet
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rhiaro
tommorris and oshepherd are also Europe I believe
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AnnBassetti
aha
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bret
waves to talky :)
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elf-pavlik
oshepherd?
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AnnBassetti
waves to bret
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jasnell
how many days? 2 ...? with possible interop event included to test implementations?
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tantek
welcome bret on talky!
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MarkCrawford
evan: Perhaps align with due dates when we are expecting to have somehting like a federation protocol that we can discuss?
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harry
It's about 8 folks from Europe, 6 folks from Asia/Austrailia
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bret
You are not getting sound from me right?
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MarkCrawford
?? Doodle poll?
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AnnBassetti
Harry, and, how many from NAmerica?
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tommorris
rhiaro: I've resigned from the WG for personal reasons, but thanks for the thought.
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Tsyesika
bret you're muted if you're the person who just joined :)
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MarkCrawford
Harry: typically WGs do 6 months.
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bret
cool
ahdinosaur joined the channel
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bret
(sometimes my mic still makes noise on Zakim if I mute client side.. no idea why)
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MarkCrawford
Harry: we should rotate so we are not geographically biased.
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AnnBassetti
bret, we're not using Zakim
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Tsyesika
I vote march around the same time as libre planet
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cwebber2
I'm going to be proposing a federation hackathon at libreplanet, for those who might be there
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Tsyesika
as I'm likely to be in boston then
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cwebber2
evanpro: maybe we should coordinate on doing such a thing
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evanpro
cwebber2: that'd be nice
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KevinMarks
I'm about to head over to the location.
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KevinMarks
Should I bring my external mic for later on?
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harry
Mostly
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bret
KevinMarks: yeah audio is pretty rough
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elf-pavlik
KevinMarks, do you have mic with protection from wind?
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MarkCrawford
general discussion around dates.
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evanpro
cwebber2, Tsyesika: that's the end of March, too far out
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lehawes
First week of February in Cambridge, MA works fine for me
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KevinMarks
There is wind? I normally put a towel over it for that
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cwebber2
evanpro: gotcha
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cwebber2
I can probably make something in feb in cambridge also
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tantek
First week of March is better for me
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evanpro
ISSUE: make sure we have teleconferencing equipment for next F2F
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trackbot
is creating a new ISSUE.
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trackbot
Created ISSUE-6 - Make sure we have teleconferencing equipment for next f2f. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/6/edit>.
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MarkCrawford
discussion around providing virtual attendance capabilities for future meetings
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elf-pavlik
let's do next one in summer europe then :D
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Zakim
sees evanpro, harry on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik
second next
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rhiaro
elf-pavlik: +1
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tantek
Cambridge MA is fine, also I can host in San Francisco at Mozilla SF for early March.
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rhiaro
Summer in Turin
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Arnaud
ack evanpro
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Zakim
sees harry on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik
+1 Turin
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MarkCrawford
evan: How do we push to a decision point?
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MarkCrawford
Larry: don't we need to include those not here now?
npdoty joined the channel
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MarkCrawford
arnaud: we need to make sure this is minuted and broadcast so that objections can be raised.
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AnnBassetti
dromasco says there was good WebRTC support for remote participation for joint IETF / W3C meeting
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MarkCrawford
tantek: wants to keep first week of march on table.
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AnnBassetti
we need to find out how they did that
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud: we can have poll
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MarkCrawford
Arnaud to take action to set up doodle poll with different options
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Arnaud
ACTION: arnaud to set up a doodle poll for next F2F, with 1st week of Feb and March
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RRSAgent
records action 4
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot
Created ACTION-7 - Set up a doodle poll for next f2f, with 1st week of feb and march [on Arnaud Le Hors - due 2014-11-04].
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MarkCrawford
Evan: suggest we have as a minimum the chairs and editors can make it to the meeting.
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Zakim
sees harry, jasnell on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack harry
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Zakim
sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik
can't hear now...
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MarkCrawford
We will resume at 3:30
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Arnaud
ack jasnell
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek
background reading before joint meeting with annotations WG at 3:30: http://indiewebcamp.com/marginalia and http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions
claudio joined the channel
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KevinMarks
Yay for fragmentions
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KevinMarks
(biased, me?)
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bret
heh, probably a little
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AnnBassetti
you folks on the camera ... I have to go to AC meeting .. break now, then others will have task force meeting.
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AnnBassetti
they'll use Tantek's camera
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AnnBassetti
see hyou later
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elf-pavlik
thanks AnnBassetti have a good AC meeting!
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bret
which camera is pointing at the projector? seems to be the most clear
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elf-pavlik
bret, frozen one? :D
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bret
well frozen now. Was working earlier
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bret
signs off talky
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elf-pavlik
really, stayed frozen for me all the time ...
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bret
weird
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bret
webRTC is funky
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tantek
cool - looks like I confirmed with elf-pavlik that we're live
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elf-pavlik
tantek, unmute?
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tantek
I'll be leaving that connection in the room for the next 4.5 hours but won't be here in person
jtauber and jasnell joined the channel
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oshepherd
Of all days why did my Occulus Rift have to turn up today? :p
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elf-pavlik
oshepherd, you want 3D stream?
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oshepherd
elf-pavlik: No, I want to play with it :p
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elf-pavlik
well you have your chance now for a bit...
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oshepherd
Hah it'll probably take me that long to get it set up
npdoty joined the channel
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oshepherd
bret: WTF is that?
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bret
360 webcam!
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elf-pavlik
cool! put it on a drone and fly around room ;)
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bret
bzzzzzzzzzzzzz
bblfish and evanpro joined the channel
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evanpro
On the subject of use cases, I added a couple of links to the wiki
tantek and AnnBassetti joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
we do it now?
AdamB joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
i just listen
jasnell joined the channel
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rhiaro
scribenick: rhiaro
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rhiaro
lehawes: Offical meeting of use cases TF begins
harry joined the channel
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rhiaro
... goal to talk about AS scenarios
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rhiaro
EdK: Talking about internal and federated
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rhiaro
lehawes: How will AS be used within Ford?
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elf-pavlik
q+ re: tracking implementation efforts for use cases we gather and prioritizing them accordingly
#
Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
EdK: Information streams, by IBM & Ford. Unique value proposition of social platform. Connecting people who don't normally connect, and to connect people with information that they wouldn't normally have connections with
#
rhiaro
... Nodes aren't just individuals, but the information itself
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rhiaro
... Driven from core applications within the company, where information posted from the system itself, rather than by individuals
#
rhiaro
... eg. all data centre incidents get published (server down, network congestion etc)
#
rhiaro
... this information published into a stream as events
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rhiaro
... once issues are known, reduces calls to helpdesk
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jasnell
for those joining remotely... we're doing a quick ad hoc Social IG meeting. The full WG meeting is reconvening at 3:30 pacific
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lehawes
Thanks jassnell!
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rhiaro
... Also, if system posts there's an outage somewhere, somebody elsewhere is having the same issue, which allows issues being tracked and eg. escalated to global vs local
npdoty joined the channel
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lehawes
To clarify, this meeting is the Use Case Task Force subgroup of the Social IG
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rhiaro
... Need to bridge between social discussions around things, and the system itself. System doesn't have a concept of the social interactions going on
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rhiaro
... The social thread becomes an important part of how the system functions
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Zakim
sees elf-pavlik on the speaker queue
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lehawes
ack elf-pavlik
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Zakim
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss tracking implementation efforts for use cases we gather and prioritizing them accordingly
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
npdoty_ joined the channel
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elf-pavlik
i see it important that we track implementation efforts for use cases and prioritaze them accordingly
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lehawes
go ahead elf
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elf-pavlik
in WG we need feedback from people who implement AS etc.
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lehawes
elf: who is "we"
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elf-pavlik
if no one implements use case i would prioritize it lower
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rhiaro
jasnell: For every use case, identify someone doing osmething with it - bit early
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rhiaro
EdK: Proof of concept not necessarily implementation
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lehawes
elf-pavlik: Understood and agreed on prioritization. I think we're too early in process to begin doing that now, but should happen later.
Lloyd_Fassett joined the channel
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jasnell
right now we're in the process of identifying the use cases. Documenting implementers comes next. It's still too early and would be counterproductive to focus on implementations too much at this point
#
Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
EdK: Four or five procurement systems in use. The person making a request sends an email to someone who puts it into the system, then a buyer gets involved, then there's a finance system, then a recieving system
#
rhiaro
... The person who needs the item isn't a part of any of those systems. So can't subscribe to notifications from those systems.
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lehawes
Reminder to self to harvest EdK's procurement use case from Social Business Community Group's work
#
rhiaro
... Security/authorisation issue in large companies.
#
rhiaro
... So subscribing is one part in the social system. Further, actions that can be taken on things in the stream
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rhiaro
... Using an embedded experience to grab data (if allowed), preserving the original security around the data object
tantek_ and grantmacken joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... Then to be able to take action about something with the same system, is beyond the normal definition of a social system
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rhiaro
... Notion of priorities in AS. If you're expected to take action, you need to be actively notified, not just see it by chance in the stream.
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lehawes
For those just joining the #social IRC chat, this is an ad hoc meeting of the Use Case Task Force of the Social IG. We're having an informal discussion of Activity Streams 2.0 related use cases until Noon'ish.
#
rhiaro
... This is from the social business community
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rhiaro
... It was a proof of concept, not finished building.
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lehawes
Sounds like use cases should be focused on core functions of AS2
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: Sounds like AS didn't have priorities, and now it does, that was the gap.
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rhiaro
... The standards we're discussing are generic, not specialised, but a hook for a specialised vocabulary
tantek joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... Specialisations like domain expertise
dret joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... But currently no way to hook that into AS?
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rhiaro
jasnell: That's what JSON-LD context is for
#
rhiaro
... you can have multiple contexts
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rhiaro
... publish specialised vocabs in a public location and add it as a context. Reciever can't necessarily do anything with it, but it can be processed
#
rhiaro
KevinMarks arrives!
#
elf-pavlik
R2-D2 style mic ;)
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: So we need to delineate types of use cases
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rhiaro
... We're not going to worry about vertical issues, specialisations
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lehawes
elf-pavlik: yes, it's quite shiny too!
#
dret
big question is: will AS2 *require* JSON-LD context mechanism, or allow the AS1 way of using terms. my preference would be to allow but not require JSON-LD contexts, and have a registry for namespaces so that people can make their vocabularies know to the world. these may be described in the JSON-LD way, or like the AS1 vocabulary: as a simple list of terms annotated with human-readable descriptions.
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elf-pavlik
sound got much worst :( can't really hear any more ;(
#
elf-pavlik
now better
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rhiaro
jasnell: Two camps of consumers with JSON-LD
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rhiaro
... some people just want JSON
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rhiaro
... some people want semantics
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lehawes
elf-pavlik: Good. Sorry, but we tried to make it better for you. :>)
#
elf-pavlik
thanks! much appreciated :)
#
rhiaro
... We can have a publisher of an AS document write a document in more than one way. comes out the same regardless of whether you use JSON-LD
#
rhiaro
... People looking at things from a pure JSON point of view can't interoperate, because every consumer has to understand JSON-LD
#
rhiaro
... there's code available, it's not too difficult
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... but people who just do json might not like that
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rhiaro
+1 json-ld
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rhiaro
... Some clients only care about one endpoint, so they're going to write their client to interoperate with that endpoint
#
rhiaro
... and that's fine
#
rhiaro
... if they want to optimise so they're only parsing json, that's fine
#
rhiaro
... Publishers can add JSON-LD augmentations or not. It's the consumers who have the problem, not knowing what they'll be consuming
#
Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
#
elf-pavlik
in which cases exactly one can't treat JSON-LD as JSON? (not AS1 JSON)
#
rhiaro
KevinMarks: Adding more constraints doesn't necessarily make things work properly
#
rhiaro
jasnell: Key thing is we can't target / make it easy for both camps
#
rhiaro
... (recognising that not everyone will be happy)
#
dret
all of this will need to be answered in the processing model section of the AS spec: as a generic client, when you see AS data flowing by, what can you say about it? and also: in which ways can you rewrite AS data (as an AS proxy) without changing what it means?
#
KevinMarks_
adding JSON-LD extra to a JSON structure is fine, but requring them to be correct makes this much harder
#
lehawes
dret: thanks for injecting that into the meeting record!
#
jasnell
the key challenge is that if we allow publishers to use JSON-LD mechanisms, consumers MUST be capable of processing those, or we break interop
#
dret
elf, JSON-LD always is JSON, of course, but for somebody with JSON-LD goggles, the world looks different. if you want to see the world the same way, you essentially have to implement JSON-LD.
#
rhiaro
EdK: Client-side resolution starts sounding like aggregation. Talking about resolving things into a thread so that the conversation makes sense. Keeping the social fabric seperated. It's useful to end user, but not to overall enterprise
#
KevinMarks_
jasnell if you MUST the LD parts you break interop directly
#
rhiaro
... So question becomes: where is the connection between the system and the social?
#
elf-pavlik
dret, even if we recommend always using JSON-LD compacted with AS2.0 context?
#
jasnell
publishers are not required to use the LD stuff
#
jasnell
they MAY
#
rhiaro
... Direction of discovery is an issue. User has to find something vs thing finding user through system
#
dret
jasnell key question is if AS2 allows free-form JSON as AS1 did. this would be invisible to consumers with JSON-LD goggles.
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: That's data-first. Kind of different from this group, which is profile-first
#
KevinMarks_
I thought JSON-LD was supposed to add context, not remove it
#
elf-pavlik
dret, can you post some concrete examples to mailing list?
#
jasnell
the AS2 @context maps unknown properties to blank nodes, so they are at least preserved through the expansion algorithm
#
rhiaro
... In data first, define the data well, and add the social layer on top
#
rhiaro
lehawes: To bring this back to AS, jasnell: are there specific use cases to help move forward
#
rhiaro
jasnell: No
#
dret
jasnell if you say MAY JSON-LD, then JSON-LD is out of the picture in the processing model section, and there's just an appendix that explains why the base syntax supports JSON-LD, but processors have to be prepared to deal with any JSON. that will make life hard for people working with JSON-LD toolsets, because they cannot assume to always see everything through their JSON-LD goggles.
#
rhiaro
... Where we use AS, it doesn't matter if it's coming from a system or a person. Something happens and we need to let people know what happens based on their relationship to the actor or the object
#
rhiaro
... Entry point to a workflow / starting point to an interaction
#
rhiaro
... I have to know what's going on in order to be able to respond to what's going on
#
rhiaro
... AS is a lower priority than actions. Acting on something in context is the next step
#
rhiaro
... Right now, push notifications send an action, but use their own format. Needs mapping to Android, iOS, webapps, etc. Need a consistent model for this.
#
rhiaro
EdK: Once you get to that, you want the response mechanism as well
#
rhiaro
... to also be consistent
#
rhiaro
lehawes: So you would see this task force focussing on the actions / embedded experiences use case, rather than sharing the stream?
#
rhiaro
jasnell: Sharing is pretty well defined
#
rhiaro
... AS is the latest iteration of this, been working on for years
#
rhiaro
... We don't need to worry about documenting use cases for AS itself
#
rhiaro
... But for embedded experiences, potential actions, we do
#
rhiaro
... need use cases
#
rhiaro
... This will be discussed more this afternoon.
#
rhiaro
lehawes: Any other comments?
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: There are actions at the AS 2.0 level, then there are embedded actions?
#
rhiaro
jasnell: They're basically the same
#
rhiaro
... AS lets you attach a Potential Action to any Activity
#
rhiaro
... eg. potential http request or opening a browser view
#
rhiaro
... describes specific actions (or commands) that can occur
#
rhiaro
... eg for carrying out a like or a follow
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: Can't that adapt to a market place scenario?
#
rhiaro
jasnell: Yes, that's one of the use cases being worked on
#
rhiaro
... where multiple third parties make offers, and how you handle it depends on who is providing it, but it's all tied to the same 'offer' action
#
Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
#
rhiaro
EdK: It's the same offer, but if you already have a relationship with someone it might be different to if you don't - but implementation worries about that. 'Offer' action is the same
#
rhiaro
lehawes: Food market scenario can be fleshed out to become a use case
#
rhiaro
... by Lloyd_Fassett
#
rhiaro
jasnell: another use case is pushing to mobile devices
#
rhiaro
... pushing an activity out as a notification
#
rhiaro
... We want to be able to integrate with notifications without having to write extensions to the mobile device APIs
#
rhiaro
... Need simple declarative ways of describing what an action is supposed to do
#
rhiaro
KevinMarks: At the moment this is done by people embedding forms and iframes
#
rhiaro
jasnell: Currently you can say eg. you do a share by embedding this html
#
rhiaro
... if it's a browser view, you do a share by opening this window
#
rhiaro
... if it's a REST API, you do a share by passing these params
#
rhiaro
... etc.
#
rhiaro
... Currently no standards for deep linking
#
rhiaro
... Every platform does it differently, and 3 or 4 competing efforts
#
rhiaro
... 4 different for Android currently in use
#
rhiaro
lehawes: We need actions use cases
#
rhiaro
... Post scenarios to turn into use cases please!
#
oshepherd
Not sure what you mean by "4 competing efforts" on Android for sharing things
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: Could flesh out with jasnell if time
#
oshepherd
Erm, you fire off an ACTION_SEND intent
#
KevinMarks_
on android, you can claim http URLs as intent from an app; the OS manages contention - on iOS you need to define your own protocol per app and there is no contention resolution
#
rhiaro
... it is a real-world scenario
#
oshepherd
KevinMarks_: Only if you're explicitly targetting another app. On Android sharing is a part of the platform
#
rhiaro
lehawes: We can get multiple scenarios around the same concept that can be normalised into one use case
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: To do a marketplace you probalby need JSON-LD
#
rhiaro
jasnell: yes, for domain specific information
#
rhiaro
... There are existing vocabs out there
#
KevinMarks_
on android, my app can claim http://twitter.com/*
#
KevinMarks_
the OS will manage contention over them
#
KevinMarks_
on iOS behaviour is undefined
#
oshepherd
KevinMarks_: But claiming URIs isn't at all involved in the process of "sharing" things
#
rhiaro
Lloyd_Fassett: MarkCrawford says vocab task force should create a list of vocabs
#
oshepherd
To share things on Android you send an ACTION_SEND intent without a URI
#
rhiaro
lehawes: Watch out for licensing issues
#
rhiaro
... but they should be on the list so we can eliminate things
#
rhiaro
... so put everything on the list
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#
rhiaro
... might get ruled out, but don't have that constraint building list
#
rhiaro
... Time to wrap up!
#
KevinMarks_
share is an OS verb on android that anyone can hook; on iOS this was hard-coded, just changed a bit
#
rhiaro
Lunch time!
#
elf-pavlik
enjoy your meal everyone!!!
#
rhiaro
is starving
#
lehawes
Thanks everyone for your thoughts around scenarios and use cases related to action-oriented aspects of AS2!
#
KevinMarks_
"Note: If more than one third-party app registers to handle the same URL scheme, there is currently no process for determining which app will be given that scheme." https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/iPhone/Conceptual/iPhoneOSProgrammingGuide/Inter-AppCommunication/Inter-AppCommunication.html
#
oshepherd
KevinMarks_: Yeah. There seemed to be insinuation that there were ~4 ways to share things on Android. Maybe I was misreading the conversation
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elf-pavlik
cwebber2, still with us?
#
elf-pavlik
Tsyesika, online?
#
elf-pavlik
great! :)
#
elf-pavlik
i prepare comparison of actions in AS, schema.org and Hydra
#
elf-pavlik
and may use example of movie review with rating
#
elf-pavlik
do you have review/rate feature in MediaGoblin?
#
Tsyesika
not at the moment, just commenting
#
Tsyesika
would be a good feature to have
#
elf-pavlik
schema.org uses such example in their docs http://schema.org/docs/actions.html 'Example: Movie review site API with -input and -output'
#
elf-pavlik
cool, once i have it published maybe you could give me feedback?
#
Tsyesika
okay, how long until you publish
#
Tsyesika
you cought me as i was going off for the evening :P
#
elf-pavlik
oh, please just go ahead :) anytime in next days will work just fine!
#
Tsyesika
okay cool :) feel free to ping me on here or via email and i'll pick it up tomorrow :)
#
evanpro
I added a diagram to the wiki
#
Tsyesika
i think chris will be around later too
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: oh hi
#
evanpro
Which I think might be useful to guide our ideas about the Social API
#
cwebber2
I didn't realize things were continuing, opening back up
#
elf-pavlik
ok, have a good one Tsyesika!
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: I did get your email btw
#
cwebber2
and will respond to it... I just got back from another conference
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, no rush!
#
elf-pavlik
evanpro, looks cool :)
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: it is!
#
cwebber2
evanpro: elf-pavlik: btw, I know it's maybe not directly in the scope of this working group, but I wonder if maybe it would be good to get feedback from here, esp from those with experience
#
cwebber2
tsyesika is currently overhauling our db schemas to handle the additions of federated activitystreams stuff
#
cwebber2
it's quite a lot of stuff to figure out how to handle moving this into a relational db design, especially given that simple foreign key patterns don't work anymore once you're about to link to just about anything (though we have some ways around we're investigating)
#
elf-pavlik
evanpro, do you understand my point with advantage of hypermedia controls over arbitrary paths like /evan/notes /evan/images /evan/friends /evan/meals /evan/books etc. ?
#
cwebber2
I'm not sure if there's anyone with experience or interest who might be interested in reviewing... it could be helpful, also, for mediagoblin to write up how we handled the schema in a relational db so other implementers can reference it
#
cwebber2
I realize that's out of scope of the wg specifically tho :)
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: yes I absolutely do
#
evanpro
I think that's an API design issue that we'll need to address
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, please send it directly to WG (implementers) list, i don't see it out of scope at all!
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: okay, great!
#
cwebber2
Tsyesika: ^^^^
#
evanpro
The big advantage of arbitrary paths is that it's what social developers are used to
#
cwebber2
we'll talk tomorrow about doing that
#
elf-pavlik
in silo environments ...
#
elf-pavlik
similar as symetric relations like friends, we will face some need to change our way of thinking in federated environment
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: not sure where the arbitrary paths bit is being referenced from, but I agree it is important if I'm reading right
#
elf-pavlik
but i do get your point about people currently having certain expectations to APIs
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, we had this conversations yesterday, sorry for mixing conversations ...
#
cwebber2
esp since projects that are trying to add federation later may have their own URL schemes
#
cwebber2
apologies if I'm jumping in unhelpfully
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: okay, will watch... maybe tonight when unwinding :)
#
elf-pavlik
much shorter :D
#
elf-pavlik
second just 7min and IMO very relevant to MediaGoblin!
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, James will talk about Actions during next session - this 7min vid can give you great intro :)
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: aha, great! Tsyesika and I were trying to see how we might make use of them
#
cwebber2
am I right that in some ways they could be useful as a kind of flip side to webintents?
#
elf-pavlik
also Caley may solve your issues with relational database ...
#
cwebber2
ie, webintents has a user say "I want to favorite with this" whereas this might mean between services "you can favorite this with our tool here"
#
cwebber2
I guess I can wait for the talk :)
#
oshepherd
How long until the next session? 15 min?
#
oshepherd
Currently geting a bunch ofn oise over the talky. elf-pavlik, an issue on your end?
#
elf-pavlik
no session now
#
elf-pavlik
next one in ~3h i think 15:30 their time
#
oshepherd
Yeah, thats why I presume you, they're offline :p
#
oshepherd
Maybe try muting yourself?
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cwebber2
elf-pavlik: great video, thank you for sharing :)
#
elf-pavlik
welcome :)
#
elf-pavlik
relevant to GMG?
#
cwebber2
highly, I think!
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: one thing we have been figuring out how to deal with is that many mediagoblin sites can have different media types supported
#
cwebber2
and those media types may be configured to have certain features on / off
#
cwebber2
so you can't assume
#
elf-pavlik
for example?
#
cwebber2
this seems like the perfect way to broadcast what without assuming
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elf-pavlik
with hypermedia you just include supported controls so client app will not expect features you don't provide!
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: well, the different media types is an easy one: we have images/video/audio/documents/3d models
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cwebber2
ascii art ;)
#
cwebber2
by default, only images is turned on
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elf-pavlik
yes, so audio would have 'listen' control and video 'watch' for example
#
cwebber2
there are some features, like geolocation support, which aren't on by default also for images
#
cwebber2
but you can turn them on
#
cwebber2
geolocation is a bad example, there are better, but I'd have to look at the config specs since I'm very jetlagged :)
#
cwebber2
but you get the idea.
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, do you have some form of collections / albums ?
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: we do, they're a bit crude, but we have a collections feature
#
elf-pavlik
BTW i think we SHOULD extract some use cases based on GMG features!!!
#
elf-pavlik
expecially if you will work on implementing stuff and providing much needed feedback
#
wilkie
yes, real-world implementation use-cases are great
#
cwebber2
a collection
#
elf-pavlik
wilkie++
#
Loqi
wilkie has 2 karma
#
cwebber2
could be better
#
cwebber2
but they're there
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: I've somewhat wondered how we're going to express different media types with federation
#
cwebber2
we already have some... I mean, audio / video are represented
#
cwebber2
but stuff like presentations aren't.... I've figured json-ld will help make this cleaner
#
cwebber2
but one thing that the actions stuff seems to make really appealing is that it removes the assumptions/guesswork from stuff like audio / video playing
#
elf-pavlik
we can create types for them, for example sub types of http://schema.org/CreativeWork
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: ah great :)
#
wilkie
they should be extensible enough. should be able to create an arbitrary object type. "image", "displayName" and "content" are all generic for all objects in AS and can be used to kinda represent them on systems that don't know what those object are.
#
wilkie
and they you'd have a link to the actual content which is navigated in the normal way or something
#
cwebber2
so actually
#
cwebber2
one thing Tsyesika and I are discussing that I think is going to be cmplex
#
cwebber2
complex
#
cwebber2
is assuming you do something like youtube-style "subscriptions" in mediagoblin
#
cwebber2
or even adding media on different domains to collections, etc, other federation examples
#
cwebber2
if you click a thumbnail to a federated video, for instance
#
cwebber2
will that destroy navigation locally?
#
cwebber2
there are a lot of UI decisions we're going to have to make... at the moment, I've assumed those are outside of the WG
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2 i think James will present embeded experiences during next session :)
#
cwebber2
but maybe if other people are thinking about these things
#
cwebber2
oh great!
#
cwebber2
stellar
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: btw, you may be interested
#
wilkie
oh yeah, embedded views are possible. but even in the low-tech minimal sense, a thumbnail that navigates is not that bad I don't think.
#
cwebber2
that Tsyesika is collecting her research as she goes at https://theperplexingpariah.co.uk/GMG/mediagoblin_research.html
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, thanks for link!
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#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: yup
#
cwebber2
maybe we should be getting more in the habit of Tsyesika and I discussing some of the federation implementation issues in here as we run into them
#
cwebber2
as well as on the list, obviously
#
elf-pavlik
needs micro break before last round of remote TPAC participation :)
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, please do!
#
elf-pavlik
otherwise if you two plan to figure it all out on your own, please let us know so we stop wasting our time and find something else to do ;)
#
oshepherd
cwebber2: BTW, as somebody familiar with the Pump API, you might like my WIP soon-to-be submission: http://oshepherd.github.io/activitypump/ActivityPump.html . Comments very much invited :-)
#
cwebber2
elf-pavlik: haha :)
#
cwebber2
no, I think we'd prefer to work together :)
#
oshepherd
elf-pavlik: I'm not sure if you're aware but GMG is going to implement the Pump.io API at the present moment in time
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2++
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Loqi
cwebber2 has 2 karma
#
cwebber2
we're already in process of implementing it
#
cwebber2
or rather, Tsyesika is in process
#
cwebber2
but we intend to support the social wg specs, assuming all goes well :)
#
elf-pavlik
IMO implementing Pump.io API as its stands now can give very useful input to Social WG work!
#
elf-pavlik
now really needs to go afk :)
#
cwebber2
enjoy your typing break ;)
#
evanpro
oshepherd: I'm interested in your thoughts on https://www.w3.org/wiki/images/5/54/Social-api-layers.png
#
oshepherd
evanpro: My concern with all resource-based direct updates is when do these turn into activities, or, more importantly: do I do a thing and that generates an activity, or do I post an activity and that does a thing?
#
evanpro
It's confusing!
#
oshepherd
I kind of feel that it should be "You do something, that generates an activity", because that makes all activities not special
#
evanpro
At least with pump.io a POST to /user/evan/following will generate an activity
#
oshepherd
goes looking for more stuff to play on his Occulus Rift
#
oshepherd
(hard to concentrate on things when new toy is screaming at you "play with me!" :p)
#
evanpro
No way
#
evanpro
What do you do with it/
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oshepherd
evanpro: Its' only just arrived, so mostly set it up so far :p
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evanpro
oshepherd: I find it really interesting but don't know what I'd do with it
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oshepherd
Maybe if I ever find the free time (HAH!) I'll develop something for it...
#
oshepherd
In the meantime its' squarely in the "Play" category
#
jtauber
I haven't done anything interesting with either of mine (DK1 and DK2), but here are my (ongoing) notes in case you're interested (although most of them are about the DK1): https://thoughtstreams.io/jtauber/oculus-rift/
#
oshepherd
Oh FFS energy companies are useless "Heres your bill. You can pay it online" Great! Whats my account number? -_-
jasnell joined the channel
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oshepherd
Like, seriously, why is my account number not on the bill?!
#
oshepherd
Hurrah! Of course its' hidden in the small print about paying by telephone
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rektide
thanks for the great post, departed evanpro
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#
oshepherd
jtauber: I'm fortunate enough not to wear glasses
#
jtauber
yeah, it's tough with them
#
oshepherd
One of the game demos I tried put a reflection of your face in the field of view. That was quite cool
#
oshepherd
(your avatar is wearing a helmet, so it makes physical sense)
jasnell, evanpro, shepazutu and cmhobbs joined the channel
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rektide
evanpro: thanks for the great diagram! really enjoyed seeing something
#
evanpro
rektide: I hope it informs the discussion
#
Zakim
excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
#
evanpro
rektide: by "mentions" do you mean the type of thing where I say "@rektide good idea!" and it goes to a special stream that shows all posts that mention you?
#
wilkie
that would get filtered through the general inbox for activities?
#
wilkie
although you probably want a route to pull all mentions that have been filtered "/evan/mentions"
#
wilkie
seems like an optional thing for implementors
#
wilkie
since it is more server->client than server->server syndication stuff
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evanpro
So it's probably worth breaking this kind of thing up
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oshepherd
I think filtering should be orthogonal to the general API
#
wilkie
I agree
#
evanpro
That's an interesting idea
#
wilkie
it's possible that "mentions" is a completely separate feed, and thus a whole other object and thus a unique resource
#
oshepherd
You should be able to request filtering from any API endpoin (and the server should also be free to ignore you)
#
evanpro
I don't know where to capture this stuff
#
wilkie
but filtering of any particular feed, yeah, would be good
#
wilkie
it's the kind of thing that you'd want to subscribe to... "/evan/activities" where activities are posted articles
#
wilkie
so in that case, it is server->server facing hm
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rektide
evanpro: yeah, external resources with inbound linkage
#
rektide
wilkie: i think /evan/mentions might be a candidate collector for mention resources, but otoh i'm not sure why individual resources wouldn't expose their own mentions collector
#
wilkie
if you want to filter a feed, you'd do it as a query like oshepherd suggested
#
evanpro
Mentions really breaks down to two different important actions
#
oshepherd
TBH I think that "mentioning" somebody is really just cc:ing them
#
evanpro
One is sending someone a note or image or whatever "@oshepherd check this out!"
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#
evanpro
And the second is search and monitoring, "Who is talking about me?"
#
rektide
i don't feel like /evan/inbox is a good permenant resource for the mention... where does it really get filed?
#
oshepherd
rektide: In your inbox. Everything gets filed in your inbox
#
evanpro
Not all social software conflates the two
#
rektide
oshepherd: ahh ok. sorry, not quite up to speed /w ya'll across the board.
#
rektide
evanpro: agreed with your breakdown
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#
oshepherd
rektide: Just think of your "inbox" as your feed (what you see on the homepage of facebook or twitter or whatever)
#
wilkie
a "timeline"
#
wilkie
or whatever
#
evanpro
"Stuff by people I follow, or in groups I'm a member of, or sent directly to me, or by me"
#
evanpro
Roughly
AdamB, evanpro_, evanp, jasnell, jasnell_ and npdoty joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik
next session in 20min ?
#
evanpro
I don't know if anyone else saw this great infographic on Web Annotations
#
evanpro
But I really like it
#
jtauber
that's great!
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elf-pavlik
evanpro, when do we start?
#
evanpro
elf-pavlik: I think 3:30PM PDT
#
evanpro
Roughly
#
elf-pavlik
in ~10 min
tantek and jasnell joined the channel
#
cwebber2
should we be joining talky.io?
evanpro joined the channel
#
cwebber2
I see a potted plant, at present.
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#
KevinMarks
we're in the other room - the #annotation one
#
evanpro
So we just moved into #annotation
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2, yes i wait for someone to start it in the room
#
evanpro
People who are participating remotely may want to join that
#
evanpro
Since someone is scribing there
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#
bigbluehat
hi new friends!
ujvari, azaroth, nickstenn, tilgovi and JakeHart joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
can you scribe in 2 rooms at once?
AdamB and tantek joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik
hi #annotation :) hey tilgovi!
#
KevinMarks
I could noterlive...
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evanpro
We're not scribing here
#
evanpro
So please come to #annotation
#
tantek
we're asking to scribe in here
#
tantek
we are scribing here
#
KevinMarks
who will annotate the annotators?
#
azaroth
ScribeNick: nickstenn
bjdmeest joined the channel
#
tantek
because #social folks are split across rooms
#
tantek
physical rooms
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#
nickstenn
shepazu: we have a charter that contains a number of things
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#
nickstenn
... some deliverables we hope we don't have to make and #social will make instead
#
nickstenn
... want to explain what we're trying to accomplish overall for annotations
#
nickstenn
... [presents diagram of "Web Annotation Architecture"]
aron_ joined the channel
#
nickstenn
... this is an attempt of a description of what we hope to see as the overall architecture
#
nickstenn
... everything starts with someone creating some content
#
nickstenn
... content creator sends content to a publisher (maybe the same person) who publishes it
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#
nickstenn
... footnotes and comments may be added to the document
#
raphael
RRSAgent, draft minutes
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html raphael
#
elf-pavlik
cwebber2 oshepherd folks will go in ~30min to room with webcam for overview of AS2.0 PotentialAction
#
nickstenn
... comments aren't in separate documents
#
evanpro
loves this infographic
#
nickstenn
... another role -- a reader -- who can annotate documents
#
nickstenn
... can annotate footnotes or comments
#
nickstenn
... they target a discrete selection within the document
#
nickstenn
... support for overlapping annotations
#
nickstenn
... annotations aren't supposed to live on the same document
#
nickstenn
... when I submit a comment to someone's blog, I'm implicitly entering into a creator-publisher relationship with the blog owner
aron_ joined the channel
#
nickstenn
... we think it would be more interesting if an annotator can publish their own annotations without the say-so or involvement of the publisher/creator of the document
#
nickstenn
... we also want the ability to notify a publisher of annotations made on their documents
#
raphael
s/!!!!/Topic: Joint meeting Social/Annotation WG
#
Loqi
raphael meant to say: RRSAgent, draft minutes
#
raphael
RRSAgent, draft minutes
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html raphael
#
nickstenn
... annotation services provide a way for readers to discover and subscribe to annotation content on the web
#
nickstenn
... the aim is a distributed mechanism for creating, storing, and discovering annotations
#
nickstenn
... we introduce another character, the "sharer"
#
nickstenn
... people can share the annotations [as first-class entities]
#
raphael
nickstenn, would be good if you could type: s/!!!!/Topic: Joint meeting Social/Annotation WG
#
nickstenn
... and there's a chain of attribution
#
nickstenn
s/!!!!/Topic: Joint meeting Social-Annotation WG/
#
Loqi
nickstenn meant to say: ... and there's a chain of attribution
#
raphael
RRSAgent, draft minutes
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-social-minutes.html raphael
#
nickstenn
???: this is a perfect use case for the stuff we're looking at
#
tilgovi
s/???/James Snell/
#
nickstenn
... this flow here fits in perfectly with what we've been talking about
#
tilgovi
I don't have to escape those ?s do I? This isn't regex?
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#
nickstenn
??2: i'll run through a status update on what [social] have been working on
#
nickstenn
tilgovi no, don't think so
#
azaroth
tilgovi nope, ??? is fine
#
harry
s/??e/Evanpro
#
KevinMarks
ironically can't annotate that presentation with fragmentions as it's in SVG
#
nickstenn
harry: mark crawford is chair of interest group
#
nickstenn
mark crawford: we have a template for use cases
#
nickstenn
... on the wiki
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harry
this is MarkC speaking
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nickstenn
... you can fill that out, add any figures you want
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nickstenn
evanpro: social ig/wg chartered in julyt
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tilgovi
s/julyt/july/
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Loqi
tilgovi meant to say: I don't have to escape those ?s do I? This isn't regex?
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elf-pavlik
can someone kick Loqi ? ;)
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nickstenn
... social ig is working on use cases and issues around social and identifying ways the w3c can be helpful in this space
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nickstenn
... three main deliverables
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KevinMarks
Loqi is logging
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shepazu
Social data syntax
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nickstenn
... 1) social data syntax
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shepazu
Social API
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shepazu
Federation protocol
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nickstenn
... 2) social api
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nickstenn
... 3) and a federation protocol
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raphael
who is Loqi?
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nickstenn
... 1) is a repr of activities (status updates, etc.) that happen in a social context -- changes to the social graph, content creation, content replies, etc.
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tilgovi
This link (appears first above) is to slides being summarised right now: http://evan.prodromou.name/files/TPAC/
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nickstenn
... it's a syntax that's JSON(-LD)
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azaroth
link for the FPWD would be useful please
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nickstenn
... just went to FPWD with activity streams 2.0
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nickstenn
... activity streams is a subject-verb-object structure "Evan - posted - this image"
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KevinMarks
Loqi is the social logging bot for indieweb et al - generates nice HTML logs http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-10-28#bottom
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raphael
Activity streams 2.0 FPWD at http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/
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nickstenn
... 2) social API -- a client/server HTTP based API that will use the social data syntax
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AnnBassetti
elf, setting up talky right now
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nickstenn
... there's a client embedding API
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Loqi
Loqi has 314 karma
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nickstenn
... we are currently in the process of developing this social API
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nickstenn
... working off existing work that came out of open social, and a number of other social APIs
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nickstenn
... goal is to get social API to a WD this quarter
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nickstenn
... 3) federation protocol -- a syndication of activities across different security domains
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nickstenn
... if I generate a number of activities that I'm storing in a social store
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nickstenn
... people will be able to follow me remotely and receive updates on those activities -- under my control
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nickstenn
... aim is to have a well-documented mechanism to transfer social data between different locations
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nickstenn
... we could walk through the Web Annotation Architecture, but a lot of people in the room can probably see where they fit pretty quickly
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nickstenn
shepazu: everything that's not at the document level is a pretty obvious fit
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nickstenn
... i want to call out the work we're doing that you're not
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nickstenn
... we're defining a data model that says what an annotation is
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nickstenn
... also working on serializations
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KevinMarks
people like JSON-LD?
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azaroth
KevinMarks - is that an activity event? ;D
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nickstenn
... working on the piece that links to a specific part of a document -- what we're calling robust anchoring
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cwebber2
yes, I like JSON-LD
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nickstenn
tantek: some of the work on webmention may have overlap on that as well
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cwebber2
it solves a major problem for us
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nickstenn
james snell: we're not modelling the specific content types so this fits very well for us
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elf-pavlik
thank you AnnBassetti :)
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti++
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Loqi
AnnBassetti has 1 karma
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nickstenn
AnnBassetti: [introduces people from Europe on a webrtc link]
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elf-pavlik
orange color
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nickstenn
fjh: I want to know what the actions are when we're done discussing
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nickstenn
shepazu: at the very least we should be giving [social] some use cases
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nickstenn
james snell: we're looking for feedback on our FPWD
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tilgovi
elf-pavlik et al, video laptop just lost power, coming back momentarily
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nickstenn
tantek: hi, I'm the co-chair of the social WG
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nickstenn
... one of the inputs to the federation protocol is webmention
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nickstenn
... [demos a note, with a bunch of comments that have come into the site via the webmention protocol]
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nickstenn
fjh: is this an open-source implementation?
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raphael
pointer ?
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nickstenn
tantek: [demos an example of a reply made using an open-source implementation hosted on someone's own site]
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nickstenn
... the other example you're probably more interested in is marginalia
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AdamB
sorry guys, lost power on the webcam
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nickstenn
... ??? combined webmentions with fragment identifiers to create "fragmentions"
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evanpro
Aaron Parecki
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nickstenn
... [shows example of inline margin comment, published again on someone's own site, but which makes reference to a specific location in a published document]
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nickstenn
s/???/Aaron Parecki/
harry joined the channel
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nickstenn
shepazu: I'd like to see what the next steps look like
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tantek
elf-pavlik: so far no JSON-LD needed for webmention comments, or marginalia, or fragmentions
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cwebber2
may very well be needed for adding new media types in mediagoblin, etc
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cwebber2
or, at least, keep various identifiers in the json from being lonnnnng
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nickstenn
fjh: why do you folks need use cases from us?
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elf-pavlik
didn't intend to gent into that now... just spoted TrIG in http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/
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nickstenn
James Snell: we can look at it and see if our stuff [Activity Streams] fits what you're doing
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tantek
In summary - I showed this post with favorites and reposts and comments federated via webmentions: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/15/3/border-none
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nickstenn
harry: we can formalise the relationship between the WGs if there are clear dependencies
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nickstenn
fjh: there may be some of our standards effort that overlaps with social APIs, and some that doesn't
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harry
Social IG for use-case discussion is Wednedays at 10:00 AM
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harry
Eastern (biweekly)
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nickstenn
fjh: is fragmentions something you're looking to standardise?
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harry
Social WG (focussed on ActivityStreams and specs) is Tuesdays Noon Eastern
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harry
See web-pages
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harry
www.w3.org/Social/WG
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harry
www.w3.org/Social/IG
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tantek
KevinMarks - came up with fragmentions after attending the Annotations Workshop in April
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nickstenn
KevinMarks: came up with it after I Annotate 2014. it was the simplest thing I could think of which addressed the problem of identifying a part of a document.
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nickstenn
... so far it's just on the IndieWebCamp wiki
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nickstenn
TimCole: there are potentially issues with fragmentions (IP, overloading the meaning of fragment identifiers, etc.)
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nickstenn
shepazu: the way fragmentions and what we're looking to do dovetails is as follows
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nickstenn
... you currently need a javascript library to make that work
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nickstenn
... one possibility is that we standardise a "find text" in page API
Zakim joined the channel
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees fjh on the speaker queue
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nickstenn
tantek: hasn't been proposed for standardisation, but it is CC0, on the web
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tantek
and interoperably implemented
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azaroth
q?
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Zakim
sees fjh on the speaker queue
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AnnBassetti
Lloyd Fassett
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nickstenn
Lloyd_Fassett: there was a mention of if someone liked "Ice Cream" they could follow "Ice Cream" ... what are the proposals for that?
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Zakim
sees fjh on the speaker queue
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nickstenn
fjh: probably a throwaway comment we can ignore
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AnnBassetti
elf , did you want to be on queue?
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nickstenn
s/fjh/someone/
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Loqi
nickstenn meant to say: someone: probably a throwaway comment we can ignore
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elf-pavlik
AnnBassetti, just Zakim not present when fjh tried get on queue...
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fjh
s/probably a throwaway comment we can ignore/not sure that we have an answer for this/
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Loqi
fjh meant to say: q?
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AnnBassetti
aha
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nickstenn
sandro: is there a nominated liaison between the two groups?
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fjh
didn’t I?
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elf-pavlik
+1 liaison
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elf-pavlik
fjh i did /invite Zakim and then added you :)
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nickstenn
azaroth: we have no invited experts at the moment, but this may be an opportunity to add one
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nickstenn
ACTION: identify a liaison between the two WGs
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is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot
Error finding 'identify'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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nickstenn
fail
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harry
I believe we just nominated Kevin Marks
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harry
or as he prefers to be called in IRC, KevinMarks
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nickstenn
ACTION: KevinMarks to act as liaison between the two WGs
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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records action 6
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trackbot
Error finding 'KevinMarks'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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nickstenn
ok, i'm gonna stop that now
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elf-pavlik
KevinMarks, your w3 nick?
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nickstenn
Arnaud: there's a pretty big overlap in general, not restricted to robust anchoring
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elf-pavlik
ACTION: kmarks2 to act as liaison between the two WGs
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot
Error finding 'kmarks2'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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azaroth
q?
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Zakim
sees fjh on the speaker queue
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azaroth
ack fjh
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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nickstenn
fjh: maybe just Evanpro and I should just talk and arrange the liaison we deem appropriate
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AnnBassetti
you guys on talky have any questions or comments?
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raphael
trackbot hates nickstenn :-)
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trackbot
Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot hates nickstenn :-)'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
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nickstenn
Arnaud: it's good we've identified the overlap early on
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raphael
and me
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elf-pavlik
trackbot says Loqi s/LOL/:D/ ??
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trackbot
Sorry, elf-pavlik, I don't understand 'trackbot says Loqi s/LOL/:D/ ??'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
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nickstenn
tantek: it'll be interesting to see how the overlap pans out, as the social WG is focused heavily on use cases, user scenarios, whereas you are starting from an abstract model
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nickstenn
azaroth: we have discussed use cases at length in the CG, it's simply that we're not going to be rediscussing those in the WG
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nickstenn
James Snell: I can take an action look at the existing data model and see how it fits
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nickstenn
fjh: we'll get back in touch before our next call
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AnnBassetti
ACTION: James Snell will look at web annotation model and figure out how it maps into social work
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trackbot
is creating a new ACTION.
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records action 8
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trackbot
'James' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., jsnell, jktauber).
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nickstenn
azaroth: I'll take the corresponding reverse action to look at Activity Streams 2.0
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azaroth
ACTION: azaroth to look at the Social WG FPWD
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trackbot
Error finding 'azaroth'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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nickstenn
Arnaud: where are you in terms of legacy, backwards compatibility problems?
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nickstenn
... in social WG we have some issues around this -- that's why it's Activity Streams 2.0