#social 2015-05-02

2015-05-02 UTC
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melvster i have tried indieauth and helped test the twitter integration, i have helped with the indiecert spec, it's more than a 'tiny' effort
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melvster but you're welcome to your views
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elf-pavlik ok, so you already can use IndieAuth?
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melvster as i said, i support it ... ive been using it on my homepage for years, you could have checked that too
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elf-pavlik i got no matches on curl http://melvincarvalho.com/ |grep rel="me"
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melvster try escaping the quotes
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aaronpk or use a mf2 parser http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmelvincarvalho.com%2F
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elf-pavlik my bad! curl http://melvincarvalho.com |grep rel=\"me\"
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elf-pavlik so you can try for example https://reader.kylewm.com or https://monocle.p3k.io/
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melvster i was able to log in
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melvster maybe they can pick out some data from my home page such as my name and avatar to personalize it
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melvster or my friends
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elf-pavlik do you use XFN ?
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aaronpk showing your name and avatar is a great idea
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elf-pavlik or h-card?
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melvster i use foaf : img in my rel tag
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elf-pavlik http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmelvincarvalho.com%2F
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melvster nice
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elf-pavlik ATM I would only expect understanding of
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elf-pavlik "me": [
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elf-pavlik "https:\/\/twitter.com\/melvincarvalho",
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elf-pavlik "https:\/\/github.com\/melvincarvalho"
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elf-pavlik ],
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elf-pavlik and
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elf-pavlik "openid.server": [
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elf-pavlik "http:\/\/openid4.me\/index.php",
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elf-pavlik "http:\/\/openid4.me\/index.php"
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elf-pavlik ],
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elf-pavlik "openid2.provider": [
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elf-pavlik "http:\/\/openid4.me\/index.php"
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elf-pavlik ],
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elf-pavlik http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values
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elf-pavlik expecting... from app developed as part of IndieWeb explorations
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elf-pavlik just as SoLiD exploration might not understand data people publish with h-card and XFN
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melvster when you're parsing "rels" it may help to see what something is relative to
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melvster just grepping the string isnt really robust
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aaronpk rel values are relative to the page URL
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melvster no, they're not
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melvster they are relavent to the URL or to a section of the page
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melvster this was what facebook said when we had them in the XG
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melvster for example comments can come from various sources
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elf-pavlik http://microformats.org/wiki/triples
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melvster but a comment on a post may contain a rel and not be the same as the post itself
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melvster it's very good to parse out machine readable data from rels, but it's important to see what the data is relative to as well
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elf-pavlik melvster, https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax/Comparison#Microformats_.26_RDF
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elf-pavlik see second JSON example in http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#h-card_org_h-card
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elf-pavlik on 'just grepping the string' - http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing
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melvster need to add a subject to the json
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elf-pavlik which JSON?
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melvster the one you showed me and pasted above
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elf-pavlik :)
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elf-pavlik today we stumbled upon notion of quads in microformats http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-05-01/line/1430520345442
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melvster great
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elf-pavlik http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-05-01/line/1430520499560
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elf-pavlik melvster, IMO we all can try to put more effort into understanding the other instead of getting upstet that the other dosn't understand me
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melvster yes
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elf-pavlik and it goes to all of us in all the ways
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melvster but it's easier to go from a triple to a double, than it is to go from a double to a triple, because information is lost one way, and not the other
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elf-pavlik agreed!
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melvster so sometimes even if there is understanding the information loss provides a barrier
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melvster that's the advantage of tying rel values to a subject
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elf-pavlik on API endpind side, i started compiling also comparison for that https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Comparison#Endpoint
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elf-pavlik micropub+webmention and pumpio seem to have a lot in common
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melvster which is already standardized, so sometimes it's less about understanding, and more about implementing an existing standard, then it's possible to run a test suite
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elf-pavlik https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-5.2 ?
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, ^
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elf-pavlik melvster, have you seen this one: https://github.com/mnot/I-D/issues/39#issuecomment-89789736
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melvster elf-pavlik++
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Loqi elf-pavlik has 19 karma
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melvster yes i saw that
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melvster timbl, as usual, is right
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melvster and as usual wasnt listened to
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elf-pavlik he makes certain point, you and me can agree with it others not, we also don't agree on various points with each other (ehm HTTP 303) let's try to do our best with what we can agree upon while working in patient way where we don't understand each other
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aaronpk pretty sure HTML5 defines rel to be relative to the entire document http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/links.html#linkTypes
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melvster trust me im being patient, this stuff was standardized 15 years ago, but im still here, working with what people are doing
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, for example in Social WG charter we have JSON not HTML so maybe we shouldn't try to apply HTML5 spec to everything we work with?
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melvster well, which ever subject you think a rel is relative to, put that in your @id field
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melvster it may be different based on the doctype
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, so microformat page with list of people couldn't allow to use rel="me" for each person to link to their social accounts?
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aaronpk correct, you'd just use a list of h-cards and multile u-url properties
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aaronpk that would be relatively easy to add to this page if we wanted to start listing more than one URL for people https://www.w3.org/wiki/Irc-people
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elf-pavlik what about feed agregating posts from many feeds (plantet style), each post can't have it's own rel="webmention" ?
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aaronpk that's an interesting idea, but you'd just need to fetch the URL of the post and find the webmention endpoint from there
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elf-pavlik so in general nested microformats can NOT have any rel?
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elf-pavlik just the top level one can
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aaronpk correct, you use regular mf2 properties for describing microformat objects, rel values describe the whole page
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aaronpk that's why parsers always include the rel values outside the list of items
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elf-pavlik what about again planet type feed, each item can't have rel="shortlink" or even rel="author"
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aaronpk u-shortlink and "p-author h-card"
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elf-pavlik hmmm... so u-shortlink and p-author in a way duplicate two http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values
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aaronpk in practice people are using the microformats properties more than rel values, with the exception of things like rel=webmention and the indieauth ones
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elf-pavlik some people use more rel values :) http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmelvincarvalho.com%2F
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aaronpk that's different
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aaronpk you were talking about properties specific to individual pieces like single blog posts on a page
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elf-pavlik i think he could put them all in HTTP Head and just use anchor there for each *subject* https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-5.2
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elf-pavlik should really go to sleep
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, melvster nice talking with you - see you on monday \o/
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melvster cu
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aaronpk waves!
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social syntax/Comparison]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83962&oldid=83961
kylewm, bblfish, KevinMarks, the_frey, the_frey_, jaywink and elf-pavlik joined the channel
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elf-pavlik o/
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Federation/Candidates]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83963&oldid=83947
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elf-pavlik bblfish, http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/#link-relation-describedby
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Loqi Rhiaro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-28-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83964&oldid=0
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Loqi Rhiaro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83966&oldid=83960
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elf-pavlik bblfish, http://www.w3.org/TR/eventsource/ & http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/eventsource/basics/
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cwebber2 hey elf-pavlik
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cwebber2 oh, that was a bit of an old o/
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cwebber2 but hi anyway :)
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elf-pavlik cwebber2, hi :)
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cwebber2 <rhiaro> Can we find a way to pitch how beautiful and harmonious it is that rdf and microformats actually fit together so well? :)
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cwebber2 <rhiaro> Can we also get a big button someone can push whenever two people start arguing about terminology that indicates "you are actually saying the same thing, stop arguing"
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cwebber2 yes yes
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cwebber2 rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 67 karma
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cwebber2 infinitity karma for rhiaro
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cwebber2 everyone says they want different groups to come closer together
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cwebber2 indieweb people and linked data people in theory both express the desire for common ground
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cwebber2 but there's simultaneously a pushback from certain members of the group from doing a technical analysis, because technical analysis in theory shouldn't happen because implementations win
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cwebber2 but how can we make our communities work together
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cwebber2 ?
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik++
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Loqi elf-pavlik has 20 karma
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cwebber2 you get karma too
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cwebber2 thanks elf-pavlik and rhiaro for trying to bridge groups
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cwebber2 I feel like both of you are doing the hard work of trying to analyze how our groups are different and how they are similar, and that needs some real appreciation
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cwebber2 so, I appreciate it
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cwebber2 http://40.media.tumblr.com/657ba51e8d3ef20155cd22797d70bb65/tumblr_niia4isROx1r83ei3o1_500.png
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cwebber2 (that comic from the actually generally safe for work though it doesn't sound like it is from the domain, and ever great http://butthug.com/ ... a fun distraction, if you are in need of some)
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cwebber2 oh I shoulda checked before I linked, now I'm afraid the second comic currently on that page makes me look wrong!
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cwebber2 ohhh well.
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cwebber2 http://butthug.com/post/116568466490/tumblepup balances it all out.
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cwebber2 anyway
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cwebber2 I hope everyone gets along and conversations are productive and the face to face is used as an opportunity to understand each other
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cwebber2 yes, even from... maybe even especially!... a technical perspective :)
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cwebber2 indieweb, linked data type people have a lot to learn from each other. High implementability is great. Explicit and clear architecture is great.
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cwebber2 there's my background cheerleading.
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cwebber2 wooooo
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elf-pavlik thanks cwebber2 :)
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elf-pavlik i sit at flat where bblfish and listen to his feedback after he took first look at schema org ....
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elf-pavlik my ears start hurting ;)
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elf-pavlik a lot of critique, in most places well deserverd
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cwebber2 :)
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elf-pavlik we do need to stop getting stuck in differences and get better at finding things we can agree on
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elf-pavlik and of course i keep failing here *a lot* myself!
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elf-pavlik today i had some fun trying http://www.w3.org/TR/eventsource/
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elf-pavlik recommended to my by some people presenting at http://apidaysberlin2015.apistrat.com/
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elf-pavlik in general i find it important to go to such events and see what people do nowadays
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elf-pavlik https://github.com/linkeddata/SoLiD/issues/11
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bblfish Well I understand why schema.org do things the way they do it. For search engines it provides a great improvement of data. But for people like us who want to develop light weight JS clients to read data, having strings used in place of URIs, etc... is not going to make our life easy
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bblfish anyway here is first use case for SoLiD https://github.com/read-write-web/SoLiD/tree/master/UserStories