#wordpress 2018-04-23

2018-04-23 UTC
[eddie], [mrkrndvs], tantek, [chrisaldrich], [pfefferle], [kevinmarks], schmarty1, Jack, Cathie and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[jgmac1106] @gwg I am happy to help where I can but my php and Wordpress Core skills are no where near whee you need. I can help with style for now but I am going through your issues and plug-ins
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[jgmac1106] I also suggest looking at different computer science clubs as well as sponsorships from hosting companies
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GWG [jgmac1106]: The biggest issues that don't require skill per se right now are documentation and user experience
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[jgmac1106] there I can help out the most. Are the documentation needs well documented? If there isn't a "documentation" tag (wouldn't expect it) I can meet up with you for a video conference and just make a punch list of documentation priorities
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GWG The first question is if the user settings and usage are clear
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[jgmac1106] ....which takes a cognitive lab and some willing guinea pigs for "think alouds." May have to grab the next few folks showing interest #indieweb WP and see if they will do a walk through of their install with me. is there a repo where these efforts would best be tracked?
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GWG Each plugin has a repo. I'm not sure if we have one appropriate for all the plugins combined
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[jgmac1106] Okay will work off GitHub for now and then file relevant issues in each repo. The other idea is to make a "meta"-repo that links to each of the indieweb WP plug-in repo or just keep links on the wordpress projects page of the wiki,
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GWG The Indieweb plugin does act as a plugin installer
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[jgmac1106] I will actually start by doing a clean install of a new instance and recording each step of turning on indieweb
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[jgmac1106] I didn't know for example the rel="me" and h-card are plug-in enabled for example. When I started these all had to be manually coded
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GWG How long ago did you start?
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[jgmac1106] Not sure, never used the installer app? I would have to check my logs to really find out. The reason I have logos on my home page and headers though was that was the only way to get rel="me" links I do remember that
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[jgmac1106] heck you probably talked me through it. I could search my Twitter archives
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[jgmac1106] @gwg do you have a preferred video format and size? Keeping this universal now will make remixing so much easier later.
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[pfefferle] good morning
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[jgmac1106] @gwg will just go mp4 1920X1080 unless you think I should drop down to 720p. Will throw up raw videos on AWS until I can figure out archive.org. Will take me a few tries myself before developing a good protocol for the "think aloud" One good side effect is a lot of raw video clips (hope I don't curse a lot)
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[miklb] GWG I just found myself wanting to re-order the post kinds check box. Any thoughts on that?
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GWG I've never tried to reorder
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[jgmac1106] will upload the video after class, but it gets obvious where pain points will be for new users and where we need documentation (inside of plug-in and on getting-started wiki page.
tantek, [grib], dougbeal|iOS and [miklb] joined the channel
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[miklb] I’ve done drag & drop but only using the CMB2 library
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[matthilt] If I post in the WP GUI and include the tick for Bridgy to publish it for me on Twitter without a link I get a Syndication Link back on the post. If I insert code (<div><a href="https://brid.gy/publish/twitter"></a><data class="p-bridgy-omit-link" value="maybe" /></div>) into the post via function (so that it automatically posts without me having to use the WP client) I do not get a Syndication Link. Is that to be expected?
[eddie], j12t, [kevinmarks], tantek, sebsel, [jgmac1106] and gRegorLove joined the channel
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[jgmac1106] So folks starting to create punch list for WordPress documentation. Currently just recording my own onboarding to develop a "think aloud" protocol but already noticing some addressable pain points
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[jgmac1106] What would be best way to document? A new wiki page? The talk page of the getting started on WordPress article? Or a new repo entirely in GitHub to track documentation efforts?
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] Perhaps stub a section on the /WordPress/Development page?
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[chrisaldrich] create a section called Documentation?
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[jgmac1106] Okay
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[chrisaldrich] Its a start and can always be shuffled/moved; particularly if it becomes large
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tantek [jgmac1106]: better to document a raw list of the pain points
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tantek rather than try to turn it into useful "how to" documentation at the same time
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tantek perhaps /WordPress/pain-points?
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tantek we've needed a page like to for some time
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tantek other folks have blogged their pain points
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chrisaldrich pain points isn't as positive a framing... putting it with Development helps to keep it in an area with a few more eyeballs towards making gradual improvements in my opinion.
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chrisaldrich but the point that it doesn't necessarily need to all be useful documentation either... we need the good with the bad for improvement
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tantek chrisaldrich, how do you put a positive framing on raw negative experiences? we also don't want to sugar coat
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tantek the point of collecting pain points from multiple people's experiences is to start to see patterns (hopefully) and use that to triage and decide which are the *biggest* / worst pain points that need to be solved first
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[miklb] almost sounds like we should create a survey
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tantek [miklb] that would be even better, and requires more work. Starting with a raw list from folks contributing their experiences (including prior blog posts about frustrations) is a good start towards illuminating what survey questions to ask
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chrisaldrich I'm not saying sugar coat either, but put them in a place that's front and center for helping to improve the situation rather than simply a grousing ground... :)
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tantek chrisaldrich: it has much less to do with "Development" than it has to do with "UX" for example
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chrisaldrich Then a page for UX improvements perhaps? I think most of the pain points are generally put directly into repositories where they're usually remedied more quickly.
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[miklb] didn’t we create a generic repo for issues? Am I imagining that?
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chrisaldrich miklb, I thought there was too...
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[miklb] https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-feature-requests
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Loqi [indieweb] wordpress-feature-requests: An issue tracker for general requests for the WordPress IndieWeb plugin ecosystem.
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chrisaldrich maintaining additional pages for these types of issues on the wiki isn't very DRY, and likely won't be as looked at/front-and-center as in the repos as issues.
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[miklb] it definitely will get my attention more in repos vs wiki
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tantek chrisaldrich: yes, better to have them in the repos as issues, however that's also extra work for the person reporting the issues, to figure out which repo / where to file which issue
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tantek having an input funnel would help gather that feedback
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tantek and some feedback could be systemic
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chrisaldrich jgmac1106's earlier comment was a Documentation focused in addition to looking at pain points.
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tantek like where do you propose tracking the "one super indieweb plugin" vs. "lots of little incremental indieweb plugins" issue?
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[miklb] I believe there is an open issue for that in the indieweb plugin repo
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chrisaldrich some of those issues come down to people actually writing the code and I think they are more than well documented for people who are likely to work or want to work on them.
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[miklb] the discussion seems to be shifting towards compiling some of the plugins amongst the developers who create & maintain them. I respect their discussion and think we should let that play out before throwing more stuff against the wall. If that goes through, then a lot of the discussion becomes moot.
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tantek [miklb] makes sense, thanks for the summary
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[miklb] and then we can refocus on the UX
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[miklb] that’s not to say a user survey of some sort and continuing to work on and solicit help with documentation wouldn’t be beneficial
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chrisaldrich yes, we still need some respect for the indie part of things ;)
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tantek yes, hoping we can do both in parallel, e.g. providing [jgmac1106] a place to document his observations since he's doing the "clean install experience"
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tantek perhaps that's a form of onboarding research?
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tantek what is onboarding
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Loqi Onboarding refers to the first experience a user has when first installing, logging into, configuring, and using a new site or application https://indieweb.org/onboarding
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[miklb] We might want to ping the developers to open issues for what features they don’t feel are documented well enough and could use help with.
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chrisaldrich it might be worth stubbing out a survey certainly...
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tantek what is WordPress onboarding?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPress onboarding" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "WordPress onboarding is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG I missed some fun
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tantek chrisaldrich: to your point, is it worth creating a /WordPress/Onboarding to document the WordPress IndieWeb onboarding experience? or is that already /WordPress/Getting_Started ?
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chrisaldrich Potentially, though I think the getting started page needs an additional reworking geared more toward Gen2+
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[miklb] WordPress/Development/Getting_Started and leave that for gen 2+ users?
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tantek agreed - is it possible for Gen2+ folks to setup WordPress? or are we assuming Gen2 can do some command line?
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[miklb] no real command line work needed to set up IW plugins in WordPress
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tantek or is that Gen1.5? can copy/paste simple command lines, but don't expect novel command line usage / debugging
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tantek [miklb]: is the assumption that someone else has already setup WordPress for them using the command line? or they are using a web host that has a one-click install/activation of WordPress?
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[miklb] IMO we need to draw the line between getting started with WordPress and getting started with Indieweb WordPress IMO.
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tantek certainly they are distinctly separate steps
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tantek that makes sense
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chrisaldrich There's a lot of IndieMark stuff which is useful for devs on that getting started page which just muddies the water for Gen2+ who are likely inundated with a lot of jargon
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GWG I'm happy to help.
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tantek chrisaldrich, and we should try to fix that upstream as well as much as possible, by making IndieMark itself less jargony
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GWG My plan, other than trying to rewire the audio cabling for the podcast, was to finish a settings page for the Microformats 2 plugin
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chrisaldrich I've got to pick up a 7 year old, but will be back in a bit... keep outlining Ideas and I'll try to stub them out later this evening....
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GWG I'm going to put some food up and read up
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[jgmac1106] [miklb] yes I started with a quick assumption folks already at level one. May throw up a quick self assessment some day
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] yes I do a few dry runs. I will develop a protocol and I recruited a few people who have blogged for years but never indieweb. They will hold off and let me record think alouds
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[jgmac1106] I am going under a no command line/limited experience as my user persona
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[miklb] right, I’d start with the idea of someone with a one-click install on a shared host.
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[tantek] Awesome