#wordpress 2018-04-24
2018-04-24 UTC
tantek and [miklb] joined the channel
# 
jgregorymcverry.com created /WordPress/Onboarding (+2605) "Adding a self-assessment survey." (view diff)
# 
[jgmac1106] I took a stab at writing a short self assessment survey for the Wordpress crowd. I went with four items (personal preference for not liking middle ground in Likert scales) and I feel the first is response is multidimensional. You could have heard of something but not used it.
# [jgmac1106] I alsotried to go from basic to complex wordpress skills and then indieweb plug ins from basic to advanced
# [jgmac1106] Thx for heads-up. Will revise in morning.
# [jgmac1106] I like having a self assessment before doing cognitive labs with users
# [jgmac1106] I also understand that lumping all indieweb plug ins, protocols, and standards into "tools" but I needed one word most would grasp. Figure tools casted a wide enough ontological net while also being technically correct.
# 
aaronpk This is the same person who was having trouble with the IndieAuth plugin right? https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/issues/112#issuecomment-383780001
[mrkrndvs] joined the channel
# 
[mrkrndvs] There are some days/weeks where I keep up with what is happening in here, but then there are others when I just need to wave the white flag
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# 
[chrisaldrich] I'm often in the same boat, and on those weeks, I pay special attention to schmarty's podcast...
# [chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106]++ for jumping in with both feet
# [mrkrndvs] Agree. Love the podcast 👍
chrisaldrich joined the channel
# chrisaldrich Some weeks I add stuff to the wiki or IndieNews and it makes me feel like schmarty is my own personal podcast producer because he goes into some solid depth.
[pfefferle] and tantek joined the channel
# 
[pfefferle] Btw... I pimped the indienews plugin for Wordpress, so you can read the streams in the dashboard
# [pfefferle] Also added „this week in the indieweb“
# [pfefferle] Have to push it to the wp.org repo at some point
# [pfefferle] [tantek] thanks ☺
[unoabraham] joined the channel
# 
[unoabraham] I'm not giving up, but it seems to me that it is going to be much easier to learn PHP and stick with WordPress than learn Hugo.
# [unoabraham] Now coming to Hugo, I'm having to not only learn Hugo, but also Github.
# [unoabraham] Not entirely true, I am trying to learn Github and Hugo.
# [unoabraham] WordPress has a lot more development when it comes to themes and plug-ins, and is a lot easier to learn.
# [unoabraham] Case in point, my WordPress theme has an inbuilt CSS builder as well as a PHP builder. It's all point and click and totally visual, and that means even someone like me who has never learned to code can change the background color, font size and color, insert titles, or remove elements, etc.
# [unoabraham] Just that I have way too much free time on my hands, and I don't like quitting so I'm soldiering on.
# [unoabraham] And I cannot seem to find a way to delete a Hugo website. i mean the command for it.
[pfefferle] joined the channel
# [pfefferle] good morning
# [pfefferle] GWG I thought about the WordPress plugins a bit… And I think we should start smaller… Before we plan merging stuff, we should start to make plugins simpler… I had a deeper look at the webmentions and semantic linkbacks plugins and they are mainly complicated because of the wordings…
# [pfefferle] noone understands the spec names… so we should start fixing the settings and to write some nice help texts…
# [pfefferle] I will try to improve the webmention settings and to add some help texts…
# [pfefferle] perhaps we can also add a dashboard help, like an indieweb version of http://www.wpbeginner.com/wp-tutorials/how-to-remove-the-welcome-panel-in-wordpress-dashboard/
# [pfefferle] I added the news-feeds
# [pfefferle] so that you can read them directly in the dashboard
# [pfefferle] have to add some changes, so that you can cite/reply to them dircetly
# [pfefferle] and it also pings indienews if you use a tag like “indie*”
# [pfefferle] I am talking with my employer to donate our plugin/theme wizard to the indieweb project… perhaps we can make an installer based on the indiemark
# [pfefferle] first you choose plugins, it supports recommended (which are checked by default) and optional plugins… in the second step you choose from a list of themes and then it installes everything and redirects you to a page of your choise
# [pfefferle] you can find an older version from 2015 here https://community.1und1.de/1und1-wp-assistent/
# [pfefferle] here is the english version https://community.1and1.com/1and1-wp-wizard/
# [pfefferle] this, in combination with UX and UI imporved indieweb plugins, might perhaps be better then a monolith plugin (I still try to argument for the single plugin approach 😉 )
# [pfefferle] I am also against fewer plugins, I must admint… I love the indieauth plugin but I still don’t use the micropub plugin… for example
# [pfefferle] not really against… it depends
# [pfefferle] I must admit, that it really makes things easier, after I merged the webmention-forms and webmention-for-comments plugins into the core plugin… and perhaps to add SL some time
# [pfefferle] but I vote against the indieauth/micropub merge
# [pfefferle] but is it so much code?
# [pfefferle] isn’t it a simple indieauth.com integration?
# [pfefferle] haven’t had a look at the code
# [pfefferle] ah, I see
# [pfefferle] the authorize code for example
# [pfefferle] what about an extra class for the authorisation/authentication stuff? so that it’s easier to enable/disable it?
# [pfefferle] GWG++
# [pfefferle] what about using the rest-api?
# [pfefferle] indents, indents, indents… 😄
zb111 joined the channel
[kevinmarks] and [unoabraham] joined the channel
# [unoabraham] Noob question... how much different is coding a plugin vs. a theme? Why not a single theme that has all the functionality built in?
jeremycherfas joined the channel
# [unoabraham] IndieWeb. All of the bits like post/format types, webmentions, IndieAuth, etc.
schmarty1 and [pfefferle] joined the channel
# [pfefferle] because not everyone wants the same theme
# [pfefferle] and then you have to code all of the stuff in different themes
# [pfefferle] and that makes changes very difficult
# [unoabraham] It's the interaction with social media and other websites that drew me in. Like being able to reply to comments and tweets from my website.
# [unoabraham] That's what sets IndieWeb about from other independent and self hosted blogs.
# [unoabraham] So I don't think people will not want all of the functionality. Remove that and IndieWeb is no different from anything self hosted.
# [pfefferle] I am not sure I understand your point
# [unoabraham] @GWG, My theme has WordPress format support inbuilt, so I don't need the Post Kinds plug-in. If other functionality like webmention support can be added to my theme then even better.
# [pfefferle] but why not use the plugin… there is no disadvantage
# [unoabraham] [pfefferle] I have been self hosting and blogging from 2004. Pretty much a WordPress user from back then.
# [unoabraham] It's the IndieWeb functionality of webmention support, IndieAuth, etc. that has got me interested in IndieWeb.
# [unoabraham] I'm sure there are many bloggers like me who would be more interested in the IndieWeb functionality. I believe they're already a part of the IndieWeb philosophy as long as there are already self hosting their blogs.
# [unoabraham] IndieWeb will give them the option of posting to Twitter from their blogs, as well as being able to reply and comment.
# [pfefferle] I understood that point!
# [pfefferle] we are also working on a simplification of the plugins and/or the installer
# [unoabraham] So my thinking is that's exactly what bloggers want. Being able to use their site as a central hub.
# [pfefferle] we hope so, at least 😉
# [unoabraham] And what sets IndieWeb apart from everybody else.
# [pfefferle] also agree on that
# [unoabraham] I also think IndieWeb will be an easier sell with such functionality. Who doesn't want to reply to Twitter from their website?
# [pfefferle] ok, but this is something we don not have properly integrated yet… at least into wordpress…
# [unoabraham] Selling owning your content, owning your domain, privacy, etc. doesn't sound that much exciting as being able to host all tweets on your own site and posting from there.
# [pfefferle] 🙂
# [unoabraham] Not just WP. I'd take any CMS. The functionality would win people over.
# [pfefferle] GWG I fear the GDPR 😞
# [pfefferle] I think I have to quit using brid.gy 😞
# [pfefferle] who does not 😉
[xavierroy] joined the channel
# [xavierroy] right now I'm documenting how GDPR affects the customer at my workplace
# [pfefferle] yes, but sadly this does not help with the brid.gy “problem”
# [xavierroy] thing is it doesn;t affect us directly.. but customers using our products need to say that they are compliant 🙂
# 
jeremycherfas !tell [unoabraham] I see what you're saying, but the point remains, that themes are mostly about what the site looks like, while IndieWeb is based on what the site can do. People choose different themes for their look. Until most themes support all of the things that can be done through IndieWeb, the place for those functions is plugins. Could be one plugin, could be several. That's not an argument I can add anything to.
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] Wow 1&1 was my original shared host. Didn't know you worked there. I am intrigued by the interest from big hosting companies
# [jgmac1106] Thx [chrisaldrich] I try to donate 15-20% of my time to Open Source projects and with Mozilla withdrawing from the learning space I needed new community
# [jgmac1106] Already enjoying open source where project leads don't have bosses, no Board of Directors changes the goal post every quarter, a day there are no grant funders that must be pleased
# [jgmac1106] Plus I can get behind the indieweb community principles and I want to empower my students to own their data.
# [jgmac1106] So I will work on WP documentation and onboarding while I personally try to think about microformats and scholarly activities in open source
# [jgmac1106] @gwg cool. I am going to do another dry run and then check out each plug in activation for users.
# [jgmac1106] I hate making tables in wiki markup but will create a place as a punch list.
# [pfefferle] GWG this filter should hide the other widgets https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indienews/blob/master/indienews-widget.php#L56
# [pfefferle] but it seems not working correctly
# [pfefferle] 😞
# [pfefferle] but you can hide it in the settings on the top right
[xavierroy] joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] Here was my first video: https://s3.amazonaws.com/indiewebvideos/indiewebwalkthroughraw1.mp4 Got a phone call in the middle and missed the directions on the indieweb plug-in installer completely.
# [jgmac1106] ohh and @gwg bumped down to 720p
# jgregorymcverry.com edited /WordPress/Onboarding (+117) "Fixed the P, added video from first walk through attempt." (view diff)
# [xavierroy] I use the People and Places plugint o do this
# [jgmac1106] @gwg can this work like a webmention or linkback through bridgy? So if folks link to a page with an h-card or something you could get a message, "You were mentioned...."
# [jgmac1106] ohh you actually menat tag in the traditional wordpress sense
# [xavierroy] The people and places plugin uses https://xavierroy.com/wp-admin/edit-tags.php?taxonomy=people
# [xavierroy] One use case for me is to find who i had lunch with 🙂 or what movies I had watched with a certain someone
# [xavierroy] I have both enabled, but I kind of use his for the Places as it integrates with Swarm and yours, i just use for weather 🙂
[kevinmarks], tantek, [snarfed], [kaushal_modi] and [miklb] joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] [miklb] It works closely to that now, but you still have to individually activate each plug-in (which I like I don't want them all on)
wagle joined the channel
alex_mayorga joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] I get that it was different. It was very interesting to try and do it from a clean install having the wiki open and comparing it to my experience
kaushalmodi and [pfefferle] joined the channel
# [pfefferle] [miklb] it is either too nerdy https://github.com/indiewebpress/composer or you have to deal with “class already exists” errors https://github.com/willnorris/wordpress-hum/issues/16
[kevinmarks], tantek, [jgmac1106] and dougbeal|iOS joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] so the main IndieWeb plug-in (and I know I am wrong just assuming persona of new user) is what gives you the IndieWeb menu in your dashboard
# [jgmac1106] That is the first use case for the plug-in @gwg I think new users want that feature and as you get more advanced you get more and more particular to the company you keep in your dashboard sidebar
tantek and [unoabraham] joined the channel
# [unoabraham] Oops... wrong chat. My bad.
# [unoabraham] Seems to be no way to delete.
kaushalmodi joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] [unoabraham] yeah it's okay this Slack instance a bridge to irc. Some functionality doesn't exist
# [jgmac1106] I lost the indieauth option on my log in screen when I updated this morning: http://jgregorymcverry.com/wp-login
# [jgmac1106] ahhh now I see what you were saying
tantek joined the channel
# [jgmac1106] but nowhere can I find checkbox. Will have to go listen to podcast
# [jgmac1106] ahh general settings page
# [jgmac1106] goit it
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# [chrisaldrich] Maybe there should be a link to options in the plugin activation section? I didn't think it was obvious either.
# [jgmac1106] I just recorded a quick Indieweb in a minute to show: https://s3.amazonaws.com/indiewebvideos/IndieAuthUpdate.mp4 but I cut off the last five seconds because it didn't work for me
[matthilt] joined the channel
# [matthilt] [aaronpk] I agree. It took me forever to figure out that I didn't have to hard code rel=me even after I'd installed the Indieweb Plugin
# [jgmac1106] no, there is no indieauth log in on wp-admin
# [jgmac1106] [matthilt] that happened to me but that was because I did it before the rel=me and h-card were included in the plug-ins
# [jgmac1106] I expected it to be IWC>Options>Checkbox
# [matthilt] Yes, now I know to look elsewhere, but as a new Wordpress user. I just wasn't aware that that was an option. Live and learn I guess.
# [jgmac1106] nevermind. It was working. I was signed into WP in another tab from filming. Had to close all the other tabs and check the box
# [jgmac1106] [matthilt], trying to help. If you have just started as an indieweb user I would love to get some feedback from you on the onboarding
# [matthilt] [jgmac1106] Sure I'd be glad to help. Now isn't a good time though. Should I DM you later?
# [jgmac1106] yeah no worries here, Drop me a note here or anywhere on the web. pretty much jgmac1106 everywhere
# [jgmac1106] and I went to go back to add the last 5 seconds showing it working and got "Did Not Receive a Valid Authorization Endpoint"
# jgregorymcverry.com edited /WordPress/Onboarding (+146) "Added video of enabling IndieAuth 2.0.1" (view diff)
tantek and [tantek] joined the channel
# jgregorymcverry.com edited /WordPress/Onboarding (+609) "Added my list of recommended changes" (view diff)
# [matthilt] [jgmac1106] Heads up, I could search for both themes in my install.
[cleverdevil] and jgmac1106 joined the channel
# jgmac1106 can’t get IndieAuth to work on https://indiewebsandbox.jgregorymcverry.com but that was just me trying to see if adding to the profile without me manually adding links worked. I get nothing there with IndieAuth didn’t try to validate with any service
[miklb] joined the channel
# jgmac1106 when trying to log into https://indiewebsandbox.jgregorymcverry.com using https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com I authenticate using Known and then get a message: The authorization endpoint did not return a JSON response
[pfefferle] joined the channel
# [pfefferle] [miklb] look at the second part of my answer
# [pfefferle] if you install other plugins as dependencies, you have to get sure that you do not produce duplicates
# [pfefferle] because the plugins still can be installed by hand
# [pfefferle] but sure, feel free to try a prototype 😉
tantek, kaushalmodi, jackjamieson, [jgmac1106], [kimberlyhirsh] and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
[cleverdevil], [kevinmarks] and tantek joined the channel