#wordpress 2018-10-11

2018-10-11 UTC
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /User:Jgregorymcverry.com/getting-started-with-WordPress-for-beginners (+326) "/* IndieWeb Compatible Themes */ marked Independent Publisher as not recommended for use" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /User:Jgregorymcverry.com/getting-started-with-WordPress-for-beginners (+15) (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] this is a new tutorial page I have been working on. happy to use that as a resource, love feedback on it from people if they try it, or an HWC organizer if they need it for a quick help guide
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] how does it compare with any of the existing getting started with wordpress pages or tutorials?
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jgmac1106 I want to replace the current page, but it is a drastic shift as it is when I first started and didn’t feel comfortable pulling evertyhing away
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jgmac1106 it dropped the indiemark comparison, and then used a common structure going from theme to theme to each plugin, I didn’t finish all the plugin yet
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jgmac1106 https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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jgmac1106 I just find the indiemark stuff a distraction at what the point of a getting started page is,
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jgmac1106 I have not put the mf-2 rel=“alternative” plug in yet as there were needed changes to post kind I think for it to work
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jgmac1106 https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Jgregorymcverry.com/getting-started-with-WordPress-for-beginners&oldid=52757
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jgmac1106 TLDR, use SemPress/ZenPress or 2016-Fork, no your current theme will not work, install indieweb plugin, then edit your profile, add hcard widget, install webmentions, semantic linkback, and brid.gy if you want to POSSE that way, JetPack and SNAP also POSSE but only Brid.gy keepsa a twitter thread together.
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jgmac1106 other plugins are gravy
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jgmac1106 Do not install the mf2 plugin with an IndieWeb compatible theme
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jgmac1106 you are welcome to try your current theme but please earlier note, “no your current theme will not work”
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jgmac1106 ohh duh forgot micropub, and indieauth as critical plugins
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[tantek] I have a really simple WordPress question
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[tantek] how do you post a note in WordPress (assuming you have Post Kinds plugin installed etc.) ?
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[tantek] add new post still seems to ask for a Title as well as Content
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[tantek] do you just leave title blank?
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[jgmac1106] you select note in the post kind menu
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[tantek] where is that menu?
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[tantek] didn't see it
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[jgmac1106] weird bug, you will not see the post kind menu until you visit the set up gae
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[tantek] setup page for what?
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[jgmac1106] so click under the indieweb logo
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[jgmac1106] you will see a link for post-kinds
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[jgmac1106] just unlick or click any box and then the post kind menu will then be in your class editor
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[tantek] ok we already went there
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[jgmac1106] ohh also..if you did a fresh install make sure you select classic editor and not wordpress editor
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[jgmac1106] you can then check screen properties up at the top and see if the post kind menu is selected there
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[jgmac1106] i meant not gutenberg, use classic editor
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[tantek] ohhh ok
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[jgmac1106] would look like this
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[tantek] got it
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[jgmac1106] but you have to unclick and click something in the post kind set up menu for it to appear, it is a known bug and issue filed
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[tantek] why is the title field there still?
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[tantek] where it says "Enter title here"?
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[tantek] shouldn't that go away when you select "[x] Note"
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[jgmac1106] you can not remove it
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[tantek] ?
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[jgmac1106] this is how we handle it, if a post does not get a title or title is optional it goes under body
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[jgmac1106] also note if using Sempress/ZenPress the published post will still include a numerical title, bug is fixed but not yet accepted on WP.org soon
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[jgmac1106] you can not remove the title field in WP editor so we try to give visual cue of moving it down...or atleast 2016IndieWeb, will ahve to go check my SemPress/ZenPress notes
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[jgmac1106] sorry my hands bad tonight
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GWG When I hid it, people complained
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[jgmac1106] ahhh that was the reason
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[jgmac1106] gwg++
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Loqi gwg has 80 karma in this channel over the last year (161 in all channels)
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GWG It was a compromise
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[tantek] Confusing Bridgy Publish error
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[jgmac1106] [snarfed] should look into this third person reporting this today
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[jgmac1106] what is the exact error? I wonder if similar to @mattl
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "exact error" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "exact error is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] didn't capture it in time
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[tantek] something like, was Bridgy publish was expecting to publish to orangemoose.com/blog/?p=126 or something
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[tantek] No account found that matches https://www.orangemoose.com/blog/?p=126
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Loqi [David Bryant] #126
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[tantek] so that makes no sense
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[tantek] why is Bridgy Publish looking for the *permalink*
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[tantek] instead of the blog URL?
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[tantek] or is that just a bad error message?
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] have you had any luck setting up the WP Bridgy Publish plugin and Post Kinds plugin and Syndication Links plugin and Webmention plugin from scratch?
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jgmac1106 yes in all versions of themes'
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jgmac1106 have a series of youtbe videos for each one, but we have been getting strange reports with bridgy
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jgmac1106 Let me finish this post, take the dogs out and do a quick install.
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[tantek] and his Twitter profile does link to https://www.orangemoose.com
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Loqi David Bryant
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jgmac1106 ohh does the person have the link back to the their twitter profile
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jgmac1106 …beat me to it
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jgmac1106 ‘did they add their twitter profile in the user profile area
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jgmac1106 and add the h-card widget to the sidebar?
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[tantek] you don't need h-card for this
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jgmac1106 okay also note the blog lives on http://www.orangemoose.com/blog/
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[tantek] that should be fine
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[tantek] Bridgy shouldn't care about it being at a subdirectory of what is on Twitter
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jgmac1106 but the twitter profile links to http://www.orangemoose.com, should be and what is are never the same in land of WordPress
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Loqi David Bryant
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[tantek] this isn't a WordPress issue at this point
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[tantek] it's a Bridgy issue
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jgmac1106 but this is exact error @mattl was having
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[tantek] we tried publishing using the Bridgy UX itself on brid.gy
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jgmac1106 or Twitter getting ready to finally pull the plug
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[tantek] and it gave the error I quoted
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[tantek] so that's why it's a Bridgy issue
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jgmac1106 yeah I kept getting signed in and out yesterday myself getting same error, hold on I think I did a post abut it to record it
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jgmac1106 can syndicate with SNAP or JetPack, but they don’t thread as well, but that is only important if you get into really long twitter convos
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[tantek] ok found that bug
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[tantek] Bridgy is picky about subdir
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[tantek] but there is a auto-title that WordPress is putting in the note!
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[tantek] "#126"
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[tantek] Bridgy Publish bug: if your site is orangemoose.com, and you want to syndicate from orangemoose.com/blog/ that should be allowed (e.g. have twitter profile link to orangemoose.com) and still work.
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jgmac1106 http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/10/09/having-trouble-with-bridgy
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jgmac1106 yes that bug has been fixed just waiting for it to go live on WP.org I think
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[tantek] what in WordPress is making up the fake title "#126" here? https://www.orangemoose.com/blog/?p=126
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Loqi [David Bryant] #126
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[tantek] we chose "Note" post
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[tantek] so it is way too hard to post a simple note on WordPress
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GWG [tantek]: How so?
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jgmac1106 I can go back through GitHub but shoudl be fixed soon
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[tantek] GWG, because Wordpress is making up a fake title "#126" if we leave the title field blank
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GWG I hate that
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[tantek] how do we stop that?
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jgmac1106 only SemPress. it is the default, but theme specific. [GWG] doesnt do that
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jgmac1106 I am looking for the issue one sec
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[tantek] where do we turn that off?!?
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[tantek] yes we are using SemPress because it was recommended 😂
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[tantek] is this fake # title documented anywhere?
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jgmac1106 https://github.com/pfefferle/SemPress/issues/61
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Loqi [jgmac1106] #61 Display excerpt rather than post number or url
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jgmac1106 and https://github.com/pfefferle/SemPress/issues/62
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Loqi [jgmac1106] #62 Syndicatiion Views
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jgmac1106 said update went live 4 days ago, maybe it isnt live on WP.org?
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GWG jgmac1106: Theme review team?
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jgmac1106 I’ll be your Huckleberry, but combine with new getting started page
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jgmac1106 [gwg] i ahave been doing it allsummer long, have test sites for all three themes. We need to find community stewards for Indpendent Publisher as well
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[tantek] looks like we're resorting to "use excerpt" in the Bridgy settings because we can't figure out how to stop the fake # 126 title from showing up 😞
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GWG jgmac1106: I really need to get on redoing syndication
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GWG I need to finish the other projects and get back to that one
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jgmac1106 but [gwg] how hard would it be to get your theme in WP.org that is the key it doesn’t exist if people have to update fromGitHub
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jgmac1106 …maybe not….I expect Twitter will pull plug in things like Brisdgy soon, just tried to get new keys for Known sites..I fill out developer app and wait and wait
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GWG jgmac1106: You mean, the 2016 fork?
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jgmac1106 yes
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GWG Not sure, I know pfefferle commented he wasn't putting ZenPress in because it was a pain
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jgmac1106 People choose SemPress bc its is there. they autoupdate themes from WP.org, telling someone how they need to make a child theme, and then how to update a theme when a GitHub repo changes is hard
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[tantek] yeah that's way too hard
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jgmac1106 same with Independent Publisher but it has critical errors
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[tantek] basically we need at least one theme that "just works"
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jgmac1106 I woul dmuch rather help you navigate the approval process
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GWG We need a good theme designer.
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GWG I can help with the structure
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jgmac1106 but I do believe and [gwg[ can correct me there are some philosophical differences at some design levels around native post types and post kinds as taxonomies, people love SemPress becuase of high accessibility ratings..
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GWG jgmac1106: Post Formats and Post Kinds, not types
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jgmac1106 I do not know wny #g2 ans #61 fix did not go live
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jgmac1106 [gwg] I also don’t understand what has to happen to post-kinds for mf2-stream to work. I am happy to try and help there as well
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jgmac1106 but [tantek] also a capacity issue, we have not been able to draw in more WordPress developers. [gwg] and [pfefferle] can’t do it along
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jgmac1106 alone
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GWG You mean, mf2-feed?
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GWG I've been working on that
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jgmac1106 my and [chrisaldrich]s skills aren’t there yet, yes I do but I have to call it
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GWG mf2-feed is suffering from mistakes I made in storing mf2 data. The new Post Kinds is trying to fix that.
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GWG It brings a lot more, but I've been working on it
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[jgmac1106] And I think we all try to encourage each other to find the joys in stable releases. This comes from someone who has probably almost bankrupt my company three times chasing features.
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[jgmac1106] Use feature requests not as bugs but as community outreach opportunities
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GWG I do, but I try to distribute what I do
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[jgmac1106] Yeah you are good at switching gears so not to go crazy
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GWG Well, I want to finish a release of Post Kinds, get Micropub out, maybe go back to the new POSSE provider code...
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GWG I also want to get Parse This to parse RSS feeds for Microsub
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GWG Simple Location needs some attention
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GWG My Home Assistant plugin needs to work with the new authentication system...
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[jgmac1106] That is a half a year to three quarters roadmap
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[jgmac1106] Imo
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GWG Depends on what else I am doing
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GWG Bear in mind I wrote a lot of the Syndication code before I took a break
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[jgmac1106] We just need to get both themes with post kinds or without to get note, reply, article, RSVP, photo, like, video, and repost done properly.
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[jgmac1106] Both of these need to be available in WP.org
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[jgmac1106] IMO opinion that is the must have. Everything else is a nice to have.
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[pfefferle] I removed the #Id stuff from SemPress and it is live now. Any actual issues from petiole that installed it lately? Otherwise they might not have updated yet.
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Loqi [pfefferle]: GWG left you a message 6 days, 11 hours ago: I'm not sure I should take over the plugin
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GWG Hello. [pfefferle]
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[pfefferle] And with now I mean it is live since nearly a week
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[pfefferle] Hey
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GWG [pfefferle]: What is going on?
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[pfefferle] Not that much lately
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GWG [pfefferle]: I've decided to come to IWC Berlin.
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[pfefferle] Yes, I read it yesterday
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GWG [pfefferle]: Maybe I'll talk you into coming up
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[pfefferle] When is it exactly?
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Loqi what
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GWG The first weekend in November
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[pfefferle] I will check! Thanks for the reminder!
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GWG [pfefferle]: It would be interesting.
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] not sure about “capacity” issue. Watching and trying to help someone with the what should be trivial task of posting a note was eye opening.
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[tantek] I can’t believe any WP dev actually struggles with the current UX to post notes. So cumbersome and so many odd checkboxes you have to remember to check just for the *simple* *normal* thing to happen
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GWG [tantek]: What should it look like?
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[tantek] Post a note and auto posse to twitter. That should not be so difficult but right now in WordPress it’s ridiculously hard and that’s after finding and installing plugins.
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[tantek] @gwg ideally as easy as twitter posting a note. Is that not obvious?
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[tantek] I don’t even know where to file the “forced automatic title” issue
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[asuh] ^^ that’s a hard problem to solve since WordPress is a platform designed for articles/posts that usually require a title
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[tantek] Asuh if you ignore the title field and leave it blank it should “just work”
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[asuh] Right, but almost all themes still have heading elements looking for a title. WordPress is very opinionated about this
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GWG There's always the possibility of a custom post UI for notes
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[tantek] So there’s an empty heading element - so what? That should be ok bot for presenting and parsing a note
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[asuh] tantek, what theme was forcing the title?
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[tantek] SemPress
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[tantek] What this tells me is that WP devs don’t actually posts notes very often. E.g. WP devs are not typically using their WP site to post notes *instead* of Twitter
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GWG [tantek]: I post notes. More than I post anything else.
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GWG I don't post enough of anything
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[asuh] My understanding is that the concept of a “note” is new to this ecosystem
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GWG In Post Formats, they call it an aside
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GWG https://ma.tt/category/asides/
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[asuh] that’s true about asides, I never really equated the two. but the fact that a title field still appears for “asides” or “notes” makes it possible to become more than the length of a small note. The UX of the post editor was never adapted for it to be more obvious
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chrisaldrich I remember the P2 and O2 themes actually had posting UI for notes built into the top of one's page so one could quickly post a note without even entering the admin interface. It was pretty slick and might make an interesting plugin that adds that piece to one's "blog" page.
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chrisaldrich https://wordpress.org/themes/p2/
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chrisaldrich It has the feeling of how Twitter does note posting on their web interface.
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GWG My solution was to try to do things with Micropub
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[asuh] P2 is an interesting theme, i missed that for a decade
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[asuh] for/by
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chrisaldrich If I recall, WordPress used it as an internal tool for a while, but eventually scrapped it.
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GWG I have a proposal for a version of Quick Draft for notes
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chrisaldrich Micropub is probably the simpler and prettier solution in my opinion too... I ought to just leave a tab always open with quill pre-loaded...
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chrisaldrich GWG: Built into the WordPress dashboard like their current post default quick draft?
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chrisaldrich I think I might use something like that for notes if it had a category/tag fields and a publish button...
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GWG Exactly
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[asuh] Quill is one step away from being a PWA. I don’t see service workers for offline storage
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[Rose] What is PWA?
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Loqi Progressive Web App (PWA) is a web site that a client can progressively enhance into a standalone app that's comparable with a native app https://indieweb.org/PWA
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[Rose] Thanks Loqi 😉
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Loqi you're welcome, [Rose]
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/issues/39
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Loqi [dshanske] #39 Dashboard Widget
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GWG To be honest, Micropub is my plan to avoid Gutenberg for as long as practical
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[asuh] As long as Gutenberg is the new, third option (in addition to Visual and Text editors), I will root for it to succeed. It’s an interesting, progressive idea with a lot of, particularly, a11y flaws.
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[asuh] What is a11y?
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Loqi Accessibility is the practice of designing so that people with disabilities can have equal access to information and functionality, applicable to both websites as well as physical environments https://indieweb.org/a11y
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GWG I just hate how it has sucked the oxygen out of anything else
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[xavierroy] [dshanske] Hi and i recall you mentioning that there were plans to display the featured image in the post kinds views?
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GWG Yes, if I can figure out a good design for it
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GWG I just spent time working on media
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GWG But that was photo, video, and audio posts.
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[xavierroy] oh. Will wait for it
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[asuh] I’ve avoided Jetpack for a long time b/c it was so excessive and lots of unnecessary overhead, which is why I chose the simple Brid.gy plugin for example. Should I be reconsidering this? I keep hearing praise about it and I haven’t really given it a fair shot in a few years
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[asuh] I’d almost want to continue holding off just to see where the functionality of the brid.gy plugin lands since it’s potentially going to be deprecated before too long
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GWG It's going into Syndication Links
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GWG I wrote some of the code, but I am spread a bit thin.
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[asuh] understandable
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[xavierroy] [dshanske] I think I just got featured images to display on posts. Needs more work though: https://xavierroy.com/kind/watch/
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GWG I am still working on version 3.1.0, but will be happy to see about merging anything in.
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[xavierroy] What I did is just a hack:
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[xavierroy] echo sprintf('<img src="%1s" class- "feat_image"/>', $cite['featured'] );
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[pfefferle] SemPress supported title-less posts for a long time for notes and asides... article needed a title otherwise it looked crappy... but the latest version supports title-less posts with correct microformats2 syntax for all posts...
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[jgmac1106] [asuh] when you have ten years of PHP development and you switch to React overnight...I am worried what this does to the community
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[jgmac1106] @gwg and bookmarks, I think there are enough bookmakrs in the wild to consider it a pretty stable post type by now,
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petermolnar the curse of gutenberg is that it's going to break page builder plugins; I have this bad feeling that everyone underestimates how widely they are actually used
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GWG I don't like js heavy code
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[jgmac1106] I use a page builder, only way I can IndieWeb from WordPress and get the site I want
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[jgmac1106] I just add u-photo or u-feature, that doesn't work for everyone?
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] have you checked my SemPress changes on your test installation? does the empty title stuff work?
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[pfefferle] yes, seems so https://sempress.jgregorymcverry.com/uncategorized/77/ 😉
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Loqi [jgmac1106] test note. Also on:
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aaronpk speaking of changes, can we get that "also on" out of the post content on these themes?
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[pfefferle] not really…
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[pfefferle] same problem as mf2 support
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aaronpk well that's irritating
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[pfefferle] sure
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[pfefferle] but there is not really a hook for that, so most plugin developers use the post content
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jgmac1106 [gwg] got rid of it in 2016-IndieWeb I think, it was in the syndication link plugin, but somethign with second menu triggered it stickness for me,
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[pfefferle] but this feels hacky
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[pfefferle] and breaks with all other plugins
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jgmac1106 [pfefferle] it was weird though both sempress installs we did yesterday didn’t have the fix
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jgmac1106 just tell people to manually add class="u-syndication" pretty easy
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GWG My theme embeds it and doesn't use post content as much
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[pfefferle] ah, thats nice
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GWG jgmac1106 was using the older rel Syndication plugin simultaneously
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[pfefferle] ZenPress also implements it native
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[pfefferle] I thought you worket with the <div> hack
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[pfefferle] I take everything back
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] can you tell me the version you have installed?
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jgmac1106 [https://blog.mat.tl/
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jgmac1106 I autoupdate themes from WP.org, I alsways have the latest
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jgmac1106 but it looks like Matt got his second post to work
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aaronpk [pfefferle]: i see you are listed as "interested" https://indieweb.org/2018/Nuremberg/Guest_Book are you going to be able to come?
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] this is weird… because it seems to work on every other installation I tested…
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jgmac1106 and it looks like all these got fixed last night: https://www.orangemoose.com/blog/?p=126
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Loqi [David Bryant] Syndication!
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jgmac1106 I swear, and [gwg] and [tantek] can vouch these were all numbered titles last night
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[pfefferle] caching perhaps?
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[pfefferle] [aaronpk] oh shit, totally forgot about that… will check my calender later… thanks for the reminder!
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jgmac1106 not sure but I did three SemPress installs with people yesterday and they had number titles and now have except titles….maybe it took four days for wp.org to push theme changes?
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jgmac1106 excerpt*
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jgmac1106 pfefferle++
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Loqi pfefferle has 33 karma in this channel over the last year (39 in all channels)
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[pfefferle] this sounds really weird!
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jgmac1106 but [tantek] is right that is why micropub clients essential to WordPress notes, take me like seven different radial buttons to publish a note
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[pfefferle] seems to be fixed in the feed thou https://blog.mat.tl/feed/atom/
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[pfefferle] might be really a caching issue
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jgmac1106 good to know we were pulling our hair out
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[pfefferle] the CSS says he uses the latest version
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[pfefferle] sorry about that
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jgmac1106 don’t apologize for being a hero
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jgmac1106 atleast we know, and [tantek] discovered an interesting thing with subdomains and bridgy all in all productive HWCs yesterday
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jgmac1106 sometimes on Android my response properties box dissapears, is there a way to get to screen options on a mobile browser?
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GWG I don't know if I should consider an alternate post UI
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jgmac1106 Indigenous is mu alternate post UI
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[chegalabonga] link pls?
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GWG It's an Android or iOS app
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GWG Me too, jgmac1106
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[chegalabonga] ah k
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GWG I should buy swentel a beverage
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GWG But there is something to be said for a web based one
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jgmac1106 I want [swentel] and [eddie] to charge me for indigenous, even if profits go to open collective for IndieWenb, I would gladly pay 4.99-9.99 for the app
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jgmac1106 you mean Quill?
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Loqi definitely
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aaronpk I should really make Quill a proper PWA now that that's better supported on platforms
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Loqi agreed.
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[pfefferle] [aaronpk] you have too much time 😉
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jgmac1106 I have been studying and testing and playing and evangelizing WP #IndieWeb for logn time noe, hand hard core, last sixth months, getting the two themes 100% and then just helping out efforts with micropb clients might be way to go…Even WordPress knows WordPress is heavy thus, Gutenberg, React, and JSON, but I fear what happens when you switch langauges and libraries from a hard core open source crew that has built on
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jgmac1106 for a decade
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jgmac1106 I now plugins and things will still work and can be written in php but just watching that entire decision making process of react or not react and deciding super late in the same scares me
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jgmac1106 [gwg] what is that fork Classic WordPress group???
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jgmac1106 maybe we push hard for native and proper mf2 there
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[xavierroy] Does anyone know a WP importer that can handle post types? I/m thinking of putting up all the watch post types onto my site
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petermolnar there used to be a csv importer
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petermolnar that might be able to deal with it
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petermolnar https://wordpress.org/plugins/csv-importer/ "WordPress Version: 2.0.2 or higher" - that's been a while!
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Loqi [Denis Kobozev] Description This plugin imports posts from CSV (Comma Separated Value) files into your WordPress blog. It can prove extremely useful when you want to import a bunch of posts from an Excel document or the like – simply export your document into ...
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petermolnar it can do custom fields and custom taxonomy, so in theory, it should be able to do post types
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[xavierroy] can i add the custom post type too?
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[xavierroy] ok. let me take a look at that. I have got a lot of episodes/series to import
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petermolnar "csv_post_type" - yes, I think it can, read it through though
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GWG I would like to push ClassicPress
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[jgmac1106] What about JSON importers and you used that feed?
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[jgmac1106] @gwg might be a good idea
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gRegorLove what is ClassicPress?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ClassicPress" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ClassicPress is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] no. None of the problems were fixed. We hacked around one (Bridgy being too picky) and gave up on the other (latest official SemPress makes annoying “#126” autotitles that you cannot disable - also a bad / dumb default in this day and age - notes should be the default, not fake articles)
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[tantek] [aaronpk] re avoiding the “also on” text. It is doable because that text and the syndication link markup is inserted by a plugin. That same plugin can wrap that entire thing in a span
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[tantek] Then put the special Bridgy class name on it to exclude it from the content
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aaronpk Not talking about bridgy tho
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[tantek] That’s a bug/issue/feature request to file against the Syndication Links plugin
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aaronpk shows up on my site and reader vis webmention
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] go look back at the two websitea
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[jgmac1106] All the number titles aren't there now, at least when I checked Matt's and Ryan this morning
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[tantek] How did they fix it [jgmac1106] ?
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[tantek] [aaronpk] got it. That seems like a general dev issue then, not WP specific
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[jgmac1106] I dunno.but just opened my test site and now it reads (no title)
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[jgmac1106] I deleted the plugins causing also on and still have it
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] where did you get your theme? Github or official repo?
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[jgmac1106] SemPress official
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aaronpk I only see it from wordpress sites so I assume it's a wordpress issue
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[tantek] GWG one general thing I’ll point out. It’s more important to make simple common post types like “note” work real well (even without micropub) than it is to be adding tons more post types
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[jgmac1106] <Https://blog.matt.tl>
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[tantek] Aaronpk back in the Technorati days Kevinmarks would see that effect (post footer inside post content) across lots of different blogs
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[jgmac1106] Yes mentioned last night we should just get the post types in top category perfect and stable before worrying about other features that are nice haves
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[pfefferle] The #number thing is no wordpress problem
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[jgmac1106] Maybe it was orangemoose just published articles and not notes... I just hoped you folks figured it out last night
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GWG tantek, you have seen the WordPress post ui, what would you suggest?
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GWG Practically
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[jgmac1106] [pfefferle] my mistake I thought when I woke up I saw an excerpt rather than (no title)
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[tantek] GWG suggestions were made last night while we were trying to make it work
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[tantek] GWG try posting a note using the WP Classic UI yourself by *just* typing into the content field, nothing else, and hit publish.
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[tantek] Note (no pun intended) what goes wrong
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[jgmac1106] Not a new UI but let's get the basics on point
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[tantek] Seriously take notes about all the unexpected things that go wrong
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[tantek] All the non-note behavior that happens
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[tantek] Literally that is all you should have to do to make a note post
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[tantek] 1. Click new post / ads post
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[tantek] lol. *add post
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GWG Okay.
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[jgmac1106] That is all I have to hit
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GWG Point taken.
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[tantek] (Darn autocorrect twice changed add to ads wtf)
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[jgmac1106] Note is my default post kind
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[tantek] 2. Type into the content field
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[tantek] 3. Click publish
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[tantek] That should automatically:
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GWG To tantek's point, maybe there shouldn't be a default post kind
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[tantek] 1. Post a note (not an ugly looking article)
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GWG Maybe it should use post type discovery
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[tantek] 2. Posse to twitter (assuming you have Bridgy setup to do so and the BP plugin)
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GWG By the way, I call it the editor.
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GWG Gutenberg is not my post editor
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[tantek] Zero need to fumble with any checkboxes or radio buttons on the post
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[tantek] Content only = note post. Period.
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[pfefferle] the latest version of SemPress (1.5.11) published on 5th october does not add any titles any more…
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[tantek] Ignore Gutenberg
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[tantek] I am taking about the classic UI
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GWG Tantek, you are suggesting 100% auto POSSE?
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GWG I worry about that
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GWG I am, I just want to call it the UI
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[asuh] tantek, regarding “1. Post a note (not an ugly looking article)“, this is dependent on the theme, right? Or are you simply focused on the Editor view in the Dashboard?
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[tantek] gwg yes because of they setup Bridgy and BP plugin, 100% auto is their expectation
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GWG Auto is a setting
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GWG So, that is possible
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[tantek] Also that’s the path to getting people to use their own WP instead of Twitter to post
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GWG Okay
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GWG I don't autoposse everything
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GWG I possibly should more
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[tantek] Asuh, depending on the theme? It doesn’t work right now in ANY theme!!!
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[tantek] Just get to work in one. ONE THEME! Prove that it’s even possible
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GWG It works for me, although I choose not to POSSE
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[pfefferle] as I said it is now working with the latest version of sempress
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[tantek] GWG other way to look at it - make it so there is no excuse to just use the Twitter UI
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[asuh] This is my latest Note on my blog: https://asuh.com/1140-2/
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[asuh] I wanted to test to make sure it worked as I intended
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GWG I think I can improve it though
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Loqi Taking back control takes time…
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[jgmac1106] I think both @gwg and [pfefferle] really close and there are different thinking on the theme design
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[asuh] So what am I missing?
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[tantek] Wat Loqi
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[asuh] Loqi is reading the content from my post lol
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[jgmac1106] Must say the two days where I had to just use Twitter were super easy
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[tantek] Asuh lol. Yes your note LOOKS GREAT. what theme are you using
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[asuh] I have been writing my own custom them from scratch
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[asuh] so this is from ground up
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[tantek] asuh++
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Loqi asuh has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] Had no idea asuh... Awesome
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2018/08/09/2038/
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Loqi [David Shanske] Preparing to board Cathay Pacific flight 845 to Hong Kong. I am not yet confirmed for my connecting flight. Sadly, no internet on board.
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GWG What's wrong with my notes?
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[asuh] I’ve been SLOW trying to get my site up to spec with Indieweb principles, life happens. But I’m making more slow progress
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GWG I posted this using indigenous though
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[pfefferle] https://blog.mat.tl/1937-2/
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Loqi [Matt Lee] Trying to post to Twitter from my own site. Also on:
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chrisaldrich GWG: I'm not sure if/when you may have used the native micro.blog interface last, but it has a slick UI piece where you begin writing a note and when it exceeds ~280 characters the title field automatically pops up to see if you'd like to make it an article with an explicit title.
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chrisaldrich Just some food for thought.
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[asuh] If I’m understanding what [tantek] is saying, these notes visually still look like articles on the front-end
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[asuh] I’ve customized my notes to be closer to what you’d see as a Tweet or Toot
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[asuh] But articles still take article form
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[jgmac1106] .http://jgregorymcverry.com/7848-2/
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] http://jgregorymcverry.com/ux-of-parenting-teething/ @iamjessklein I wrote another post in the UX of parenting series in honor of our conversation around teething.
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[jgmac1106] Note example
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[pfefferle] if you use the post-types as expected they will look like they should with sempress https://ichmagdiesen.link/
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[asuh] That’s a good observation, chrisaldrich. Would be very useful for WordPress editor UX
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chrisaldrich It could also be worthwhile for Micropub clients like aaronpk's Quill.
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chrisaldrich pfefferle++ for tweaking the title/number flow in Sempress!!
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Loqi pfefferle has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (40 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] Honestly I publish from Indigineous more than anything except my most important use case of replying to tweeta
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[pfefferle] [chrisaldrich] this was only a problem for articles… notes and asides never had titles
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[pfefferle] perhaps I should change the post-format if the user hasn’t add a title
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[jgmac1106] Out of all three themes I tested all summer SemPress worked best problem was just the number slug for title on notes and the syndication with Bridgy, specifically quotes was off
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[jgmac1106] I feel comfortable recommending either theme. Any long term WordPress user knows WordPress never works right. Our DIY is trying to figure out what's broken today
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[jgmac1106] That's the WordPress way
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[pfefferle] maybe I have to read some older posts… I have no idea what the problem is…
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[tantek] Not acceptable to say “Wordpress never works right” or “that’s the Wordpress way”. We know we can do better with WordPress
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[jgmac1106] You fixed it. You responded fast to issues
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chrisaldrich I suspect a great deal of the problem is the huge tangle of plumbing between vanilla WordPress and people attempting to use the Bridgy Publish without respecting that their theme needs to be mf2 compliant to work properly.
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chrisaldrich @jgmac1106 I know you've had some issues with WordPress and even webmentions. What can we do to help you overcome them so that WordPress works as you would expect it to?
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chrisaldrich It would be far more productive to fix those issues you're seeing so that others (and particularly educators who rely on it) don't experience them in the future.
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[jgmac1106] I can not and have not been able to send webmentions ever. My solution is leaving WordPress
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[jgmac1106] Nobody and everyone tried can figure out why
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[jgmac1106] I can play advocate while hiding whsr a bespoke approach it all is
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] webmentions will be sent async on the same way as pingbacks/trackbacks
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[pfefferle] have you disabled WP-Cron?
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[eddie] I the issue isn't the "sending" of the webmention, but the "verification" of the webmention
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[eddie] I think if I remember correctly there is a timeout for a service that tries to verify the webmention?
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] which web host do you use?
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chrisaldrich @jgmac1106, given your customizations and other plugins, it might also be useful for us to know what other plugins you're running that may be causing potential issues.
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[pfefferle] [eddie] the timeout is set to 100 sec…
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chrisaldrich I suspect you've had students/others using roughly your same host and set up that have them working, right?
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[jgmac1106] Reclaim but I can spin up a working instance
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[jgmac1106] Yes I need to play plug in whackamole
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[jgmac1106] My publish time can approach ten seconds
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chrisaldrich may be worth spinning up a clone of your site on a subdomain and letting one or two here have access to hack away at the back end to see what may be happening.
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[jgmac1106] So it's turn off all the plugins and turn them on one by one
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[jgmac1106] No point. I am done. I lost Bridgy on Known as I paid for Convoy and had to reply for a new Twitter app
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[jgmac1106] My 14 day WordPress experiment that turned into 90 days was fun, but all the content I am creating is about fixing my website
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[jgmac1106] Just waiting to see if Twitter will approve my app or try to use the Idno plugins
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[jgmac1106] I am still going to be doing most of my support in WordPress as I know for now that is where my tribe will come from, there or blogger... But blogger is just Bridgy for now
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tantek [jgmac1106]: I guess I'm curious what steps you took that got your configuration so messed up. Seems like a (series of?) trap(s) worth documenting and warning others about
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[jgmac1106] Moving between webhosts a ton over a decade
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] do you have a problem, giving me a login to your site?
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[pfefferle] so I might have a look?
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[jgmac1106] Having my old iWeb files that were there on my root nobody could recreate my mess
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[jgmac1106] Yeah [pfefferle] I do think OStatus plus Mastodon Auto share slowing me down together
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[pfefferle] shouldn’t be…
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[jgmac1106] When I get on train. Debating whether I just drive straight to Manhattan... Or just catching train
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[pfefferle] ostatus is simply pinging the websub hub… nothing more
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[jgmac1106] I am using a page builder bc looking the way I want just as important as correct mf2
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[pfefferle] and, as I said, webmentions are async
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[jgmac1106] Yeah I will start whackamoling while I wait for Twitter to deny my app
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[jgmac1106] But will give admin rights, fun fact I think I started at 1to1
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tantek what is iWeb
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "iWeb" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "iWeb is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] iWeb was an Apple product included in iLife for building websites in a way that avoided all html standards and just made up stuff and stuck code anywhere at will.
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk 😂
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chrisaldrich Definitely sounds Web 0.1...
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[chegalabonga] 🙈
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[pfefferle] but the websites were really pretty!!
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[asuh] is Underscores theme waiting out the Gutenberg update? I don’t see updates since May
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GWG pfefferle, I tried the things you thought of with jgmac1106, or I think I did... including manually triggering do all pings
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GWG asuh, underscores has periods of activity
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[pfefferle] hmmm ok
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joedk On indieweb/micropub wordpress plugin
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GWG joedk, yes?
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joedk I installed it on a selfhosted wordpress
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GWG Joedk, that's good. How is it working?
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joedk But in the "installation manual" it says that no configuration is needed
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GWG joedk, install the Indieauth plugin. But Micropub should handle those headers if active
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joedk I tried, same
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GWG What site?
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joedk You are asking my wordpress url ?
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GWG Yes
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GWG And are the plugins active?
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joedk Oh sorry I didn't tried with "IndieAuth"
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joedk but "IndieWeb"
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joedk I'll try that ;)
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GWG Even without it, I should see the headers in your site.
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GWG Do you have anything that caches pages and might not reflect it immediately?
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joedk https://stream.foxlocation.com
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joedk Indeed, no headers
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GWG Strange
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joedk And IndieAuth didn't changed anything
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GWG Both Indieauth and Micropub add them. And they are as active? You see settings pages?
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joedk Oh wait there is that one
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joedk <link rel="micropub" href="https://stream.foxlocation.com/index.php/wp-json/micropub/1.0/endpoint" />
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joedk And Yes they are active
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GWG Very strange.
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aaronpk is there a caching plugin installed?
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GWG You are using the GitHub version of Micropub?
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joedk Fresh wrodpress 4.9 installed
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joedk Yes
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joedk Downloaded from github directly
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GWG Okay. It isn't related but I haven't pushed that to stable
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GWG Can you check the Indieauth settings page and tell me if you see a url for the endpoint?
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GWG And if you have caching, clear it?
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joedk Ok I have 2 headers now, I've downloaded github indieauth plugin instead of activating from "IndieWeb > Plugins"
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joedk Quill is working now ;)
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aaronpk well that's no good. GWG do you know what version of IndieAuth the IndieWeb plugin is installing? seems bad that it could be that out of date
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joedk Thanks guys
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joedk What is not good ?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "not good" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "not good is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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joedk The IndieAuth installation process ?
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joedk Because I think it's normal that the IndieWeb plugin page isn't actually installing the plugin
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joedk When I'm trying to install a normal wordpress module it's asking me for ftp credentials
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aaronpk it's not good that you ended up in that situation via the "IndieWeb" plugin
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aaronpk we need to fix that
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joedk but I didn't setup these credentials, so the IndieWeb plugin is relying on the same process but isn't showing the ftp credentials popup
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[pfefferle] it installs the latest version available on wordpress.or
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[pfefferle] g
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joedk @pfefferle through what script ?
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[pfefferle] not automatic
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[pfefferle] but when you click the install button
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[pfefferle] if you have to setup ftp credentials, your webserver is not configured properly or missing some features
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[pfefferle] perhaps this helps https://stackoverflow.com/questions/640409/can-i-install-update-wordpress-plugins-without-providing-ftp-access
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joedk Yes indeed, but It's only a test, but thanks for the link
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joedk Nice support ! Thanks again
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joedk bye
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GWG The Indieweb plugin only installs from WordPress
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GWG Either version is fine, it is up to date
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GWG The Indieweb panel just triggers WordPress to install
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GWG I have to understand this confusion
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[pfefferle] what confusion?
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[jgmac1106] @gwg one critical bug to fix is the post kind menu not displaying until you edit the setting.
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[jgmac1106] That confuses heck out of people I put it in my tutorials. Maybe [asuh] or [pfefferle] can help leaving Mike out for a bit as I am sure he evacuated and his day job is building response websites for first responders.
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[asuh] [jgmac1106] what setting displays the post kind menu?
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[jgmac1106] It is under IndieWeb @gwg can explain better but I IRC it was the function for the editor. Tiny bug that confuses people. You won't see Post Kind menu in editor UI until you visit settings page
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[asuh] oh, i see. so after a fresh install of Post Kinds, there is a .postbox component in the Post Editor postbox container but within that component none of the kinds appear. I hadn’t seen this before.
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[asuh] it’s just a blank widget
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[jgmac1106] Yep but as soon as you visit settings it populates
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[tantek] Hey WordPress folks, I do have some good news - the Bridgy backfeed/listen support + receiving webmentions seemed to work "automatically" (i.e. after plugins+Bridgy setup) - note the two tweet like that showed up here: https://www.orangemoose.com/blog/?p=126
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[tantek] GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 81 karma in this channel over the last year (162 in all channels)
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Loqi [David Bryant] Syndication!
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[tantek] now the question is, are facepiles vs namelists (for showing likes & reposts) a configuration thing? or a theme thing? or both?
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GWG A Semantic Linkbacks configuration thing
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GWG But there are proposals for more settings/layouts
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GWG Leaving work, so will be more responsive
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[tantek] GWG what is the default? text links like that (with no space? the links touching looks odd), or images? (not saying I have a good answer here as this is something I am personally finding challenging in UI design)
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[tantek] time to try a comment reply to see how that gets rendered by default
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GWG Correction, going to Leave work
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GWG Text links aren't the default, facepiles are
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GWG Text links if you turn off photos
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[chegalabonga] [tantek] I reckon a config thing
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[chegalabonga] Also, with regards to WordPress, I've had great success in getting up and running with the plugins with zero issues. :thumbsup:
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[tantek] [chegalabonga] glad to hear it!
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[tantek] tried posting a reply (and sending a webmention) to that post I mentioned above and my comment is not showing up. assuming it is stuck in moderation
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