#wordpress 2018-12-10

2018-12-10 UTC
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cjwillcock chapeau GWG. thank you kindly, and you're welcome!
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GWG cjwillcock: Do you use Simple Location?
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cjwillcock I do not - I think that will help identify the location I post from, right?
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cjwillcock I rarely post outside of home (so far)
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GWG Yes
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GWG I am doing bug fixes
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GWG It also does weather
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cjwillcock does it work worldwide? I have a little weather feature I source from Gov. Canada. But it's just a /now page feature.
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cjwillcock I like the weather part. I'll probably use it on that feature alone :)
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GWG It uses DarkSky or Open Weather Map at your option
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GWG I abstract APIs so you could use anything
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[Serena] thanks for that! The Classic Editor works just as advertised!
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GWG [Serena]: How is everything working for you?
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jeremycherfas Have I got this right, that I can upgrade to WP5 and install Classic Editor and essentially nothing changes?
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[jgmac1106] Yes and you should... Though I know many waiting a month or two for bugs to be squashed
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[jgmac1106] @gwg people testing Post Kinds with Gutenberg said this is missing step https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/handbook/designers-developers/developers/backwards-compatibility/meta-box/
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Loqi Meta Boxes https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/wp-content/themes/pub/gutenberg/assets/images/github-mark.svg?20171212 Edit
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[jgmac1106] Also [pfefferle] and @gwg met a few people using the Mf2 Feed plugin... If there are bugs in post kinds for compatibility we should bump those.
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[pfefferle] The plugin should work as it is, because it does not yet use the meta data of post-kinds
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Loqi [pfefferle]: [jgmac1106] left you a message 1 day, 15 hours ago: look what sknebel noted may want to do for themes and jetpack share buttons it seems like themes can override where the jetpack buttons go? https://jetpack.com/support/sharing/#move-buttons
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[pfefferle] So it simply uses generates feeds for the core Wordpress data
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[jgmac1106] perfect thx, yeah I checked the markup and it looked fine
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] Thanks! But this is still only a temporary thing, because it can get really messy if theme developers have to implement custom code for every big plugin...
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[pfefferle] I speak about the jetpack thing
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[jgmac1106] I just remembered you two talking about something being off..just want to give out correct info
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[jgmac1106] [pfefferle] okay I will update the getting started page tell people just "no jetpack share buttons" nobody uses them anyways
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[pfefferle] at least until there is an implementation
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[jgmac1106] Do you think it is okay to tell people "Hey if you are on a theme that doesn't work with IndieWeb you can now use the mf2 feed plugin"
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[pfefferle] to be honest, I do not want to recommend any microformats plugin… there were a lot of discussions about the whole topic and very different opinions…
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[pfefferle] that is also why I want to step back a little from the development of these plugins
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[pfefferle] I hope [dshanske] will take over if he has some spare time
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[pfefferle] but long story short… if you checked the JSON and it works, you can recommend it to people that are using themes that do not support microformats 1 or microformats 2
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[jgmac1106] respect your wishes the most, your goals, your web. All I no is 90% (made up number) won't abandon a theme they have had for years...mf2 feed, while yes technically not in line with human readable metadata in HTML provided a solution for that use case
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[jgmac1106] [pfefferle]++
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Loqi [pfefferle] has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (35 in all channels)
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[pfefferle] thanks 🙂
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[jgmac1106] I think you are right though, themes and not plugins is only way to go
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[pfefferle] btw. Semantic-Linkbacks also support microformats 1 very well and this is supported by lots of themes, because of the core implementation
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[jgmac1106] We have SemPress, 2016 IndieWeb, [cjwillcock] is building one, and he posts a loit of animation so he may appease art/photo corwd
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[jgmac1106] bunch of us want to touch up Independent Publisher over Dec-Jan (welcome to help if you have spare time)
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[pfefferle] don’t get me wrong… I still think the mf2-feed idea is the best way to go for now… but that caused a lot of discussions…
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[jgmac1106] between SemPress, ZenPress, Independent Publisher, CJ's new theme, and 2016-IndieWeb we will have five
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[pfefferle] I currently switched focus a bit and work on ActivityPub… See http://the-federation.info/wordpress and http://fediverse.network/wordpress
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[jgmac1106] cool lot of activity pub action...let me know when to remove all the OStatus and try what you are building
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[pfefferle] I build it, to be compatible with OStatus
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[pfefferle] so, you do not have to disable OStatus, but also use AP
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[jgmac1106] ...just thinking speed, always want fewest plugins possible
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[jgmac1106] are you Slack or IRC?
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[pfefferle] slack
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[jgmac1106] Okay I am going to record the mf2 feed plugin tutorial for the rest or WordPress...while we try to build up the theme base
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[jgmac1106] somebody should check if they stripped microformats1 from 5.0...that was in roadmap
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[pfefferle] was it really on the roadmap? 😳
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[jgmac1106] yes 100%
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[pfefferle] I thought it was part of the _s theme
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[pfefferle] WordPress really wants me to also quit!!!
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[jgmac1106] there is an open ticket in _s to remove all microformats
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[jgmac1106] I am
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[jgmac1106] going to continue to support community, but I am done
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[pfefferle] 😞
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[jgmac1106] that is my newwwyear resolution
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[pfefferle] I know… just listend to your myurlis interview
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[pfefferle] always interesting to get to know the different motivations and their stories how they got involved in the IndieWeb idea
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[jgmac1106] Only thing that works in WordPress is the mantainers...and watching Automatic control and shape the direction without community input and you realize WordPress is released openly but hard to say its developed openly and by the community. It is a product of Automatic they are willing to share with an open license
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[jgmac1106] really got to go, enjoy lunch
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[pfefferle] thanks
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[jgmac1106] we can get all you PHP folks to hack on Known for me....but I know as soon as I finish I will want to try something else...keep flirting with Perch Runway and seeing if I can learn to spin up a CMS with 40-60% of the plumbing done for me
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[pfefferle] 😄
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[jgmac1106] Will say after working on two Known plugins, the storage seems a bit complicated...seems a few extra steps for each plugin it isn't just form>php>database>render...but I am teaching myself php as I do this so it could be just the way it is supposed to work
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[pfefferle] I really thought about contributing to known, but is it still active?
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[jgmac1106] yeah Ben and Marcus have been publishing some major releases and hope to get a 1.0 version out soon
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[pfefferle] and there is the spare time problem again 😉
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[jgmac1106] I would say 3-4 people still actively hack on plugins....that is like a 100% increase over the WordPress crowd
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[pfefferle] I should search for a company that will pay me for contributing to the open, portable, interoperable, social, synaptic, semantic, structured, distributed, (re-)decentralized, independent, microformatted and federated social web 😄
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[jgmac1106] Do you really want to work for Mozilla?
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Loqi I agree
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[pfefferle] hmmm, never thought about that! 😉
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[jgmac1106] ouch Loqi, that was mean, I was being sarcastic
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[pfefferle] perhaps I should talk to tantek one day 😉
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[jgmac1106] https://careers.mozilla.org/ lloks like they are goind heavy into VR with current hires...Dietrich runs up their decentralized browser stuff.....
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[pfefferle] I still try to convince my employer, that the IndieWeb idea is a strong opportunity for a hoster…
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GWG Post Kinds is not Gutenberg compatible, jgmac1106
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[jgmac1106] Yes and from what @pauljacobson told me if you make a few minor tweaks to metaboxes you should be okay
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[jgmac1106] I am working with him to try and document what has to be done... We have quite some time to decide if we go all in on Gutenberg or try Really hard for mf2 in ClassicPress in say good riddance to Automatic and WordPress
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GWG jgmac1106, I don't think setting the metabox compatibility flags will do it
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[jgmac1106] But from our convo.. Just a few small tweaks to post kinds...he is using mf2 feed plugin... And his json of standard WP post types looks great
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GWG But I will look
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GWG I am currently working through the other plugins
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[jgmac1106] Thx, I am just passing along the links
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GWG I think Simple Location can work well enough with a few tweaks
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[jgmac1106] Makes total sense... Dig your roadmap, fits your needs
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GWG I looked at Syndication Links first
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GWG And Indieweb
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GWG I looked in order of perceived difficulty
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106] oh gosh… haven’t seen, that you released that many tutorials! https://www.youtube.com/user/intertextrEvolution/search?query=sempress
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[pfefferle] have to link them in the theme readme!!!
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106]++
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Loqi [jgmac1106] has 12 karma in this channel over the last year (85 in all channels)
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GWG pfefferle, I am not sure about the Microformats plugin
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GWG The feed plugin I might do some work on
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[pfefferle] fine for me
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GWG Not sure what order I am doing things. I am also working on the parser for Yarns whenever I get bug reports back from jackjamieson
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[pfefferle] sorry for queue jumping in the first place and now stepping back 😞
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GWG I really want a Microsub endpoint
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[pfefferle] feature collector? 😉
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GWG pfefferle, I have been working on fixing the Post Kinds storage markup since you mentioned it
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[pfefferle] [dshanske] don’t feel forced!
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GWG I read a lot of articles, it is something that I would use
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[pfefferle] sure, wasn’t meant that serious 😉
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GWG Not forced. I just made it part of a bigger piece. Separating the pieces of Post Kinds further
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[pfefferle] ok
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GWG I am afraid of Gutenberg, so I am slowly separating storage of Microformats from rendering
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GWG So if I have to change how I display things, I don't have to change the storage part
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[jgmac1106] [pfefferle] give me few days. I am going to move all IndieWeb tutorials off of YouTube and on to Archive.org... Also need to redo the h-card, syndication links and Bridgy tutorials
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[jgmac1106] Trying to keep videos modular to make updating easier as plugins and themes change
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[pfefferle] 😳
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[pfefferle] this is possible?
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[jgmac1106] Ohh yes... Moved my podcast there yesterday
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[pfefferle] haven’t heard about the archive video thingy
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[jgmac1106] Added directions to the /archive.org page on wiki..
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[jgmac1106] Video... was always my biggest hangup with open. Archive.org fixes this
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[jgmac1106] https://archive.org/details/2toPonder
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[jgmac1106] My podcast... Also started my IWC tutorial channel
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GWG pfefferle, have you looked at blocks yet?
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[jgmac1106] https://archive.org/details/AddCustomPropertiesToMenuLinksInWordPressIndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] I can't push code...but happy to help with documentation and tutorials
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GWG jgmac1106, I am sorry
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GWG I just realized every time I change something you have to rerecord
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[jgmac1106] No apologies, necessary. How it works...why I make 10 videos for each theme rather than one long walk through
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[jgmac1106] And the goal is to model how other nontechnical contributors help... So many open source projects fail by ignoring role of nontechnical contributors.... And no one knows how to bring in Designers
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GWG Maybe I should do a post on Gutenberg and Post Kinds and why it might not be a quick fix
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[jgmac1106] Content++
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Loqi Content has 1 karma over the last year
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[jgmac1106] ... That said a heads up by a day or two before you release updates so I can record or find people to record would be totes awesome
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[jgmac1106] Release Schedules++
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GWG You suggest a level of organization that I may not have
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GWG I don't always know when I will release
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[jgmac1106] Cool... Then just keep publishing those awesome posts where you describe changes... Not just GitHub change log
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GWG I may do that for some of the post kind archive fixed
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GWG fixes
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GWG That's already live
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GWG I need more extensive unit testing. I am doing it in Simple Location to track down a serious bug
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GWG Someone private location keeps getting broken
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GWG So I added a test that should tell me if I broke it
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GWG No one will trust a plugin if it keeps showing what you want to hide
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jeremycherfas GWG is there any difference on the surface with WP5? I don't mind updating, if I must, but I want to keep the classic editor and not have to rethink any aspect of my site if I can help it.
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GWG jeremycherfas, so far not for me
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jeremycherfas OK. Well, I'll probably do a full backup and then take a look.
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GWG As long as you install the clasic editor plugin, you can continue till 2022
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GWG Either way, I am testing Gutenberg compatibility with my things plugin by plugin
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GWG Compatibility being defined as usable, not integrated
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GWG Post Kinds... currently not compatible or integrated
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GWG Syndication Links and Indieweb, compatible
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jeremycherfas That's a good approach.
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GWG Simple Location, nearly compatible. If I make some tweaks
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GWG So, that should give me some wiggle room to decide what to do long term
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jeremycherfas Long term, I wonder whether WP really is too big to fail.
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GWG There is ClassicPress
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jeremycherfas There is, or there will be?
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GWG It's in beta
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GWG https://www.classicpress.net/migrate/
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GWG They are open to the sorts of things that I suggested
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GWG I am expecting a lot of changes on the WordPress side too
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GWG They are talking about moving from svn to gjt
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GWG git
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GWG Bumping the minimum php version
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jeremycherfas I think I will wait until it is out of beta and then make my moves.
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GWG I think ClassicPress may have caused them to pivot on some developer issues
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jeremycherfas I really have no interest in blocks.
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jeremycherfas At least, I don't think I do.
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GWG jeremycherfas, I may set up a test site
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GWG I don't think I do either, but I would like someone to try and talk me into them
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jeremycherfas Rather you than me.
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GWG I have to consider the people we'd lose if we abandoned WordPress
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GWG So I need to give it a fair hearing
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[pfefferle] I like the blocks concept from the user perspective
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[pfefferle] it is really simple and smooth to write posts
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[pfefferle] much like the medium.com editor
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GWG pfefferle, have you given thought to how it might work with mf2?
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GWG It's a hard thing for me to envision
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[pfefferle] not really, and as I said, I do want to step back from the mf2 discussion a bit
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[pfefferle] but one thought: it might not really help, because in the end it is all inside the p-content, so we have the same issue then now
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GWG That is my problem exactly
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[pfefferle] I experimented with a widget area below the content area, so that you are able to use share links outside the content
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[pfefferle] https://github.com/pfefferle/ZenPress/blob/master/templates/partials/entry-footer.php#L34
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[pfefferle] And you can also use for example the h-card widget
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[pfefferle] For example
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[pfefferle] This felt like the most generic implementation
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[jgmac1106] So we need away to store metaboxes outside of p-content?
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[pfefferle] that would fix the problem of the share-links be part of the e-content
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[pfefferle] we can set an accept header for wordpress parsers to something like “application/html+microformats” and remove all filters from the content if set 😉
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GWG pfefferle interesting idea
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[pfefferle] https://web.archive.org/web/20081222164509/http://tetlaw.id.au:80/hmeaningless/
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[pfefferle] > hMeaningless is an easy to implement microformat indicating the lack of semantic markup. Adding class=“meaningless” to any HTML element indicates that the element contains no semantic markup what-so-ever.
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[pfefferle] 😄
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[pfefferle] or `p-ignore`
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GWG pfefferle, accept headers I am told are tricky
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[pfefferle] Was not meant that serious ;)
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[pfefferle] And it does not really solve the mf2 issue
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GWG aaronpk does it
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[pfefferle] Only one little aspect
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GWG Nothing may solve it
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[pfefferle] I know... that is why I started the mf2 feed plugin initially
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GWG I believe in that as an option
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GWG But Gutenberg may blow everything out of the water
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GWG I can't conceive a solution, so I am not yet working on the problem
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GWG I'm working around it
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[pfefferle] But I do not see where Gutenberg makes things more complicated, except the post kinds UI thing
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[pfefferle] But I don’t see anything that makes the mf2 easier or more complicated
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GWG pfefferle, it is a merging of post content and post meta
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[pfefferle] Not really, you can still use post meta fields
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GWG So now all meta ends up in blocks inside content. Where the content filter was putting it in some cases before, so that part isn't a new problem
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[pfefferle] If you use blocks this way
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GWG Yes, but for how long
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[pfefferle] Ok, but this is a very general question
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[pfefferle] Nothing lasts forever
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GWG pfefferle, I may, as the expression goes, not be able to see the forest for the trees
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GWG I see a possible future I don't like and it is impacting my ability to figure out a short term goal
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[pfefferle] Hmmm, not good
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[pfefferle] But if you think so, you have to write your own tool from Karatschi
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GWG So, I am focusing on what I can do
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[pfefferle] Scratch
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[pfefferle] Every open source tool might change over time
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GWG I am making sure any plugin that can work with Gutenberg does
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GWG So, that will be everything but Post Kinds
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[pfefferle] Drupal seems to also implement a Gutenberg similar editor
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GWG And try that last
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GWG But Post Kinds is the most mf2 heavy
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GWG Micropub won't care as it is a posting UI to itself
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GWG pfefferle, I have been in this situation before. I will decide how to handle it at some point
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[pfefferle] Sure
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GWG Until then, expect stuff from me as if it wasn't something I was worried about
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[pfefferle] ☺
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GWG Like Parse This taking on comment parsing
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[pfefferle] 👍
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[jgmac1106] Did you see the post from @bradenslen this is just Gutenberg Phase One, the editor, Gutenberg Phase Two will require all the themes and metadata updates
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GWG I read the post
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[johnjohnston] Hi, Does anyone use the TextMate blogging bundle to post to WordPress? I do but it doesn’t support Post Kinds. I wonder if it could be made to. Would need some ruby knowledge of which I have none. https://github.com/textmate/blogging.tmbundle
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Loqi [textmate] blogging.tmbundle: TextMate support for Blogging
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GWG Anything is possible if someone is interested in doing it
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GWG How active is the developer?
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[jgmac1106] [johnjohnston] that hasn't been updated in 11 years, I am surprised it works with 4.9.8 at all
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GWG Sounds like a no
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gRegorLove It must be XML-RPC then?
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[jgmac1106] [johnjohnston] Sublime has a WordPress Snippet that is actively updated
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[jgmac1106] And really couldn't we just write the html templates with correct markup, you wouldn't need a postkind plugin,
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GWG jgmac1106, you think it is time?