#indiewebcamp 2014-03-27

2014-03-27 UTC
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tantek KartikPrabhu - no I don't but if you want to note any specific issues / topics that we should capture on the wiki, feel free to bring them up. I'd prefer to focus on discussing/debating issues rather than the sources thereof (citations are good of course, but labeling something as someone's personal issue is not)
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aaronpk I must not be rendering the uid that bridgy sets in my /mentions feed
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aaronpk cause it's there, but not in my mentions feed http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrid-gy.appspot.com%2Flike%2Ftwitter%2Faaronpk%2F448714131483275264%2F13734
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aaronpk but, the url of the bridgy "like" is actually the URL of my tweet, which seems incorrect
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tantek reads more scroll back
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tantek oh dear
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aaronpk so, the answer to your question is, yes there is a real h-entry in the wild that has no url or uid, it's here http://aaronparecki.com/mentions (I can't send you a link to it obviously cause it has no link)
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@dougmckown @elegantthemes Do any of your themes support microformats? And can I search the themes based on that feature? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/448973349809422336)
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tantek KevinMarks gRegor` pdurbin please let's avoid criticisms of Dave Winer as a person, regardless of what he may or may not have done to any of you personally.
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aaronpk so it's not *just* a theoretical problem, because it's a problem with my feed right now
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tantek It doesn't help discussion of indieweb *topics*, technologies, features, etc.
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gRegor` Sorry, I didn't mean that as a criticism actually. Just a comment.
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gRegor` If I was in his shoes, I might have blocked me too. Not like we have any relationship.
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aaronpk and I assume that if I managed to generate an h-entry with no uid/url then probably someone else will soon too
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tantek gRegor`: I'm not debating whether any such actions were right or wrong.
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tantek I just want to avoid any of us falling into the trap of debating or criticizing an argument based on criticizing or other behavior of the person making the argument.
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tantek we're (trying to be) better than that - let's discuss ideas on their intrinsic (de)merits, not by who is making what argument or taking what position
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tantek also - doesn't matter if others *do* criticize arguments by criticizing the people making them. we can set a better example.
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gRegor` Understood. I wasn't even concerned with a topic of argument. It was just an offhand comment about being blocked. No grudge here
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gRegor` I still think well of him. :)
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tantek thanks gRegor` appreciated.
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gRegor` But I could have made that more explicit in my remark
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tantek and to be clear, I've made this mistake myself in the past. it's never been to my (or any of my arguments) benefit.
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tantek aaronpk, the Bridgy example is interesting, but I guess I'm still confused by how you got the h-entry in the first place if you can't point to it
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tantek surely you got a "source" URL in the webmention of it?
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aaronpk yes, there is something wrong with the way i'm handling it. my point is that I still was somehow able to generate html for an h-entry that does not have a URL or UID
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pdurbin tantek: I'm critical of Dave Winer's words, which smack of homophobia
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aaronpk so my question is what should a consumer of a feed do if there is no url or uid
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aaronpk a) find/make some other unique identifier, or b) treat the h-entry as invalid
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aaronpk (other options?)
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tantek aaronpk - how about start with a) the consumer should ignore it, and b) debug why you're generating it
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tantek because I guess what I'm saying is, I don't see a valid use case for such h-entry's yet
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aaronpk if the consumer ignores it, then I am going to make the consumer report the error back to the producer like how google webmaster tools has a lot of debugging tools
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tantek and it seems like the result of a bug anyway
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aaronpk i don't care whether it's a valid use case of h-entry or not
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aaronpk my question is how does a consumer handle it
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tantek my point is, if it's not a valid use case, then default ignore
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aaronpk so if it's essentially required for an h-entry to have a uid or url, then I should report missing uid/url as an error
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tantek no, that's not what's required
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tantek what's required is for someone to produce a real world use-case
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tantek absent that, default ignore
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aaronpk you know what i'm working on, right?
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gRegor` Perhaps of indieweb interest: thinkup.com I forgot I had an install of it. They've now made a public, hosted version of it too.
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tantek gRegor`: last I checked ThinkUP was a) PESOS-centric (not POSSE), and b) monoculture centric (their one project was going to save everything)
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tantek aaronpk - reader feature?
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gRegor` I installed it years ago for the "local copy of my tweets", plus analytics
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app is a consumer of a list of h-entrys, and it needs to know whether or not it has seen a particular entry in the feed before
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gRegor` But I haven't kept up with it.
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tantek definitely seems like something that can easily ignore things that don't look "real"
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tantek but yeah, what you said, about ignore / report errors in debug mode seems fine
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aaronpk if there is a "problem" with an h-entry, it needs to make a decision on how to handle it. I want it to be useful for people to know what is wrong with the feed rather than silently ignoring failures
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aaronpk so it sounds like the correct behavior is that a consumer should treat either uid or url as a required field, and report it as an error if not present
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aaronparecki.com edited /mention-app (+116) "ignore h-entry with missing uid/url" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps consider filing "problem with an h-entry" thoughts as feature requests for indiewebifyme? not every consumers of h-entry need to be error reporting / debugging validators
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aaronpk ignoring h-entries with no url/uid is getting dangerously close to one of those being a required field
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aaronpk but i'll leave that for another discussion
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aaronpk as long as I know how to proceed for now
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tantek aaronpk - ignoring it - FOR THAT APPLICATION
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tantek != required field for a *format*
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aaronpk that's why I said it's another discussion :)
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tantek well, rather, the whole notion of "required field" doesn't work
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tantek because saying something like that in prose doesn't stop people from ignoring it
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tantek and you end up having to figure out what to do in that case *anyway*
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aaronpk which is where the error reporting comes in
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tantek it is never worth thinking of any field as "required"
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tantek it's just a bad framing
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aaronpk so instructing consumers on how to handle the case is very important
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aaronpk otherwise you get different implementations making different decisions and everything becomes a mess
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aaronpk so guidance on that is useful
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tantek "very important" ? you can't make that statement absent an important use case that demonstrates its importance
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aaronpk i think my use case made that pretty clear
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tantek it doesn't because yours is a (self)generation bug
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aaronpk that's not relevant
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tantek it is because such bugs are not use-cases
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aaronpk as a consumer of a list of h-entrys, I had to make a decision on how to handle missing uid/url
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aaronpk the options I saw were a) generate a unique id, or b) ignore the entry
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aaronpk or I guess c) pretend this isn't a problem and probably have my code crash
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onewheelskyward possibly is how I'd phrase that
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onewheelskyward But I'm an optimist.
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Loqi snarfed: cweiske left you a message 2 hours, 9 minutes ago: linkback to my website failed (https://www.brid.gy/twitter/kyle_wm), could you re-run it? I tried to fix it
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Loqi snarfed: cweiske left you a message 1 hour, 55 minutes ago: it worked since bridgy tried after 1 hour again
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caseorganic waiting in Mozilla lobby with lots of people for Homebrew website club to be let upstairs
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caseorganic Mozilla Portland*
snarfed, demis, fmarier, tantek, tilgovi, pfenwick, lukebrooker, sparverius, pauloppenheim, iangreenleaf, bpayton, nihiser, paulcp, kylewm, bnvk, josephboyle, realzies, pasevin, CheckDavid, BjornW, mydjey, melvster, nloadholtes, KevinMarks_, hadleybeeman, nfn, ben_thatmustbeme, tahnok, jjuran, Garbee, ddysart, brianloveswords, tommorris, netweb, michel_v_, gavinc, ireheart, acegiak, pavelz, pdurbin, inimino, jden, dietrich, bear, arcatan, bret, igalic, JasonO, tomstuart, hidgw, muhh, onewheelskyward, JonathanNeal, Phae, ryana, rknLA, b0bg0d__, bigbluehat, hugoroyd, rektide, sdboyer, icco, edrex, lmjabreu, zaal, catsup, jacus, mko, otterdam, jtzl_, aaronpk, XgF, wagle, hober, saurik, walkah, reidab, the_merlin and etymancer joined the channel
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tantek Darius - dunlaps.net
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tantek got SSL working on his blog at IndieWebCampSF
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aaronpk dietrich: is IRC blocked on the mozilla guest network?
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tantek rest of that day got full POSSE / Bridgy working on his blog
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tantek he's using WordPress
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tantek got JetPack setup to syndicate out to a bunch of silos
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tantek when he posts on his blog, he has a UI to optionally POSSE copies
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tantek with URLs back to his site
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tantek if people comment on those copies
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tantek Bridgy sees those interactions and copies them back to his blog
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tantek with links back to the originals too
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tantek he showed this to his wife who runs SquarePeg foundation non-profit
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tantek and she said - we must have this!
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tantek because she's constantly managing their FB page etc.
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tantek snarfed: this is where Amber's talk of "Generations" comes in
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tantek snarfed: we're slowly making stuff work with less technical work
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tantek darius: one of the things he did with the HTTPS stuff on the wiki was to edit those pages to make them more clear - to him as he was working on SSL support
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caseorganic Blocking: can't access #indiewebcamp on freenode from mozilla guest network
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caseorganic Otherwise would take notes
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tantek Brian Alvey: worked on a platform crowdfusion
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tantek … met Tantek 12 years ago
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tantek … and Kevin Marks
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tantek … who mentioned Homebrew is happening
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tantek … Interested in meeting smart people
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tantek … live in NYC but out in SF to work on stuff
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tantek snarfed: IndieWebCampNYC is coming up!
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tantek Brianalvey.com is his site
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tantek brought Randall with him
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tilgovi huh
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tantek Randall Bennett - I build stuff
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tilgovi different Randall?
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tilgovi ah
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tilgovi I should turn of that highlight. No one calls me Randall on IRC.
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Loqi definitely
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tantek builds software that eliminates hardware in broadcast
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tantek wants to move it all to the web
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caseorganic I feel like I'm missing half of Homebrew club without the back hammer
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tantek and have the client do all the work
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dietrich aaronpk: hm i don't know
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tantek we figured out way to use CSS transformations to auto-scroll when content is bigger than a certain area
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tantek Ben Werdmuller - werd.io
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pauloppenheim http://www.brianalvey.com/
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tantek … complains about twitter mentions
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caseorga_ aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 407 karma
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pauloppenheim http://www.randallb.tv/
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aaronpk guess irc isn't blocked? just was being weird... or werdio
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tantek … tantek notes not to complain about twitter mentions noise ;)
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tantek … Ben has a Knight News challenge out there
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tantek … has been using idno for himself since June
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caseorga_ http://benwerd.com/2012/03/26/check-out-our-entry-for-the-knight-news-challenge/
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tantek … day job is working for broadcasters
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tantek … works for Latakoo
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tantek Randall says "we'll talk"
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tantek [thanks caseorganic for adding links in realtime :) ]
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caseorga_ Knight News Challenge Grant Link: http://newschallenge.tumblr.com/post/19496167198/latakoo-makes-video-simple-send-share-collaborate
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tantek … idno - would like people to check it out
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tantek … it's PHP based with Mongodb (but he's fixing that)
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tantek Amy MacKinnon - first Homebrew meeting!
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tantek … has been wanting to come for a very long time
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tantek … has been aware of the indieweb for a couple of years
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tantek … didn't know what it was about til last fall
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tantek … went to website, realized it was what she wanted to do for a while now
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tantek … get everything off the silos etc.
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tantek … amy-mac.com is her site
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pauloppenheim http://amy-mac.com/
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tantek … keeping things on her own site
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tantek … her site is built on Jekyll
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tantek … which she is really liking
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tantek … having done much to advance it much lately
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tantek … but hoping to get it more and more connected to stuff
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mattmartin hello world
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tantek … the next thing is - setting up social media APIs to automatically tweet and all that instead of having to manually do it
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tantek … POSSE
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tantek … used to have it setup with Jekyll
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tantek s/Jekyll/Wordpress
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Loqi tantek meant to say: … used to have it setup with Wordpress
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tantek … now has to set it up with Jekyll
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tantek Jack - was at IndieWebCamp 2013 in PDX
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tantek … had a lot of fun there
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tantek … jacksenechal.com
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tantek … not a lot going on there
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tantek … primary use is as an OpenID platform
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tantek … using MyOpenID
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caseorga_ tantek: can you ask amy mac about http://usslomaprieta.com/ (it's a star trek club linked from her website)
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pauloppenheim http://jacksenechal.com/
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tantek caseorganic - you should!
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bret !tell barnabywalters do you have your h-feed to atom feed code availble anywhere?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek aaronpk: aaronparecki.com
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tantek … put together IndieAuth as a provider for OpenID when MyOpenID announced shutdown
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tantek … works a lot on the auth side of things
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tantek … couple of weeks ago setup ownyourgram.com
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tantek … lets you use the IG app as a client
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tantek … and then posts it to his site in realtime within a couple of seconds
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tantek … looks like he is doing POSSE
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tantek … ownyourgram.com has a tutorial
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tantek … of how to setup an API on your site
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tantek … so that you can use other apps to post to your site
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tantek … he wants to be able to use an app that Barnaby makes
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tantek … to post to his own site
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tantek … by signing into that app with his site
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tantek … and having that app post to his site first
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tantek … also started working on "Mention-App"
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tantek … to get push notifications from your own site
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tantek … similar to name mentions etc.
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tantek … micropub is the reverse of microformats
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tantek … microformats is a way to make HTML machine consumable
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tantek … micropub is the reverse of that, a way to create microformats entries
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tantek … he can create a micropub endpoint on his site
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tantek … for other apps to create content on his own site.
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tantek … microformats + IndieAuth turns your site into an OAuth server
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tantek … that's the idea is that you should be able to with your own site, create content in all these different servers from the own app
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pauloppenheim caseorga_: it's http://www.usslomaprieta.org and it's frequently at my house
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tantek Ryan: I added "find a micropub wordpress plugin" to my list
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tantek s/list/to-do list
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Loqi tantek meant to say: Ryan: I added "find a micropub wordpress plugin" to my to-do list
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caseorga_ pauloppenheim++
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Loqi pauloppenheim has 1 karma
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tantek hey caseorganic can you minute PDX?
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caseorga_ AWESEOME
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tantek sometimes hard to hear here
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tantek caseorganic - can you minute Alex?
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AmyMac Whoah, who's talking about the USS Loma Prieta?
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caseorga_ tantek: minute?
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tantek take notes
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caseorga_ AmyMac: I am
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aaronpk leading constiturional tax reform
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AmyMac Are you a member?
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caseorga_ Alex Linkster is here in portland working on something related to the moon is a harsh mistress and implementing it on his site as a trinary node structure with certain cells connected to other cells
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caseorga_ "is there a use case you have in mind?" snarfed
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aaronpk ... organizing groups, leaders of groups assigning tasks
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caseorga_ AmyMac: no! i didn't know it existed
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aaronpk ... currently not easy to see what other groups are doing
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caseorga_ AmyMac: and i don't live in SF, but this looks fantastic!
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aaronpk ... hard to have groups feel connections to other groups
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AmyMac I'm just curious because I'm one of the senior staff on the ship and I was surprised to see it mentioned here
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caseorga_ "do you know of any existing groups that would use this?" - alex
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caseorga_ sorry, not alex - snarfed for the quote above
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caseorga_ alex: neighborhood associations, leaders of these groups. not formally structured
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caseorga_ bittorrent synch - bret
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aaronpk bret.io up next
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aaronpk bret.io is a jekyll site, done some experiments with setting it up with indieweb stuff
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aaronpk ... recently built an atom feed for yesterday's IRC feed
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aaronpk ... currently updating at random times during the day (need to fix that)
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aaronpk ... next project is a more general h-feed/h-entry to atom gateway, probably written in node
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AmyMac @caseorga I just caught up on the logs, so now I understand why it was mentioned. It's a great club. We have a lot of fun and do a lot of stuff. Site needs a lot of work though ;-)
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aaronpk dietrich up now
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pauloppenheim alex is not on IRC? someone pls point him to https://gephi.org/
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aaronpk ... works for mozilla in pdx
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aaronpk ... hooking up IFTTT to every single place they support that he uses
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aaronpk ... gathering everythign into google spreadhseets, trying to figure out data ownership for non-technical people
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aaronpk ... hoping to use existing infrastrcuture and plumbing to let non-technical people do stuff wit htheir data right now
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aaronpk ... also working on firefox os, thinking a lot about the user-centric indieweb principles
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aaronpk ... hoping to do something like saving a person to your home screen of the phone so you can "launch" that person
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aaronpk tantek: wants help with a really simple thing... a short snippet of PHP code that detects whether the device accessing the site is iOS based
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aaronpk ... use case is to use that to determine whether that person has facetime suppport
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aaronpk ... hoping to not reinvent that wheel, assuming someone has done it already
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aaronpk bret: brad demo'd camlistore at indiewebcamp pdx in 2013, there will be an install party in pdx http://calagator.org/events/1250465835
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Loqi Camlistore Install Fest on Monday, Mar 31, 6:00pm at Mozilla
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dietrich tantek: people -> urls -> launchers was something that's only talked about in the last couple of days and then i saw your tweet last night. #cosmic
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benwerd tantek - re: iOS device detection, it really is all about the user agent. I like the look at this class because it groups by device *type*: http://mobiledetect.net/
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tantek Joe Johnston
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tantek … website is simpleton.com
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benwerd but of course you could do a one-liner to grep the ua string.
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tantek … has some stuff
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tantek … modified version of Jekyll
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tantek … Octopress but ripped apart and more hacker friendly.
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tantek … working on a startup for the personal cloud space
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tantek … starting with the UI first
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tantek … personal clouds finally arriving this year
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tantek … IoT etc. driving this
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tantek … by end of the year people will understand they have a server the same way they understand they have dropbox
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aaronpk ... by the end of the year expects people to understand they have a server, like they understand they have a dropbox acct
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tantek … launching a startup called airship
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tantek … has also done a startup in the broadcast space
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tantek … not to be confused with UrbanAirship
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tantek Katie Johnson
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tantek … website is katiejohnson.me
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tantek … my portfolio
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pauloppenheim www.10hacks.com
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tantek … built in Bootstrap
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pauloppenheim http://katiejohnson.me/
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tantek … interested in having more up to date text
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tantek … thoughts and content
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tantek … that I want to produce regularly
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tantek … I'm working on allowing citizens to have access to public sector data
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tantek … working for a company that manages city data
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tantek … dev portal to make it easier to build apps
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tantek … exciting to be here.
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tantek Brian Alvey - has a question
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caseorga_ aaronpk: ^^ interesting, we should talk with katiejohnson about civic data
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tantek … who does things like that
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pauloppenheim 10hacks is https://twitter.com/joejohnston
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tantek … this person is
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tantek … that
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tantek tantek: check out IdentEngine
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tantek KB -
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tantek … does not have a website
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tantek … did indieweb back in 1995 - look at archive.org!
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AndySylvester bret: I am on IRC, will try to monitor the discussion when you get to the brainstorm session for h-entry gateway
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tantek … here is fortunate enough to do what he wants to do
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tantek … inspired and wanted to see what is going on
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tantek … interested in federated private sharing
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@benwerd Hearing about IdentEngine as an #indieweb solution, but it seems to be stopped. Dead? http://www.identengine.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/449008384214175744)
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tantek … has been inspired by all of you to take all of his G+ posts and move them to github
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tantek … with a makefile etc.
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tantek … hopefully next time!
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tantek Jonathan Bailen (sp?)
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bret AndySylvester: sounds good
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bret still doing intros
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tantek … just moved his site off of WordPress to static site this morning
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tantek … jonbeilan.net
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pauloppenheim http://jonbeilin.net/
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tantek … went with more DIY sort of attempt
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tantek … got tired of being bound of different platforms owning relationships with people
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tantek … say Tumblr did something I disagred with politically
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AndySylvester bret: thanks, will stand by...
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tantek … no way to move off their platform and keep relationships
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tantek … maybe something as simple and lo-fi as a mailing list
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tantek … I think it's goofy that RSS exists as a protocol
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tantek … but no one uses it
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tantek … this is my first meeting
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tantek … not even web developer
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tantek Hanni
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tantek … website is hanni.me
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tantek … don't use it much
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tantek … another disclaimer - been involved with WordPress fairly closely … forever
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tantek … used to be inspired by this kind of stuff
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tantek … got involved with wordpress 10-11 years ago
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tantek … now that actually becoming a lawyer instead
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tantek … now intrested in this stuff in a totally different perspective
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gRegor` Dang, I forget that WordPress is that old, heh
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bret AndySylvester: we have two examples to work off of/use already: http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/ and http://h-reader.aws.af.cm/feed/atom?url=http://www.sandeep.io/
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tantek … the problems we tried to solve a long time ago
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tantek … it's Tantek's fault I'm here
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tantek ... (we're trying to solve the same problems again)
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tantek … very interested in having control of my data on my own domain
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tantek … rather than scattered about
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aaronpk theodore
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aaronpk ... first time, wanted to see what you guys were doing
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pauloppenheim http://hanny.me/
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aaronpk ... i don't have my own site up
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aaronpk ... but like the idea of having control over your content, posting from one place
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pauloppenheim oops, http://hanni.me/
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tantek right
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AndySylvester bret: I will take a look at them now
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aaronpk emma kuo - notenoughneon.com
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aaronpk ... developing my own indieweb software
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hanni not hanny, although very hilarious that someone has that on a WordPress.com site :)
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aaronpk ... currently trying to add micropub and oauth endpoints to try out ownyourgram.com
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hanni aaronpk: i'd love to help with the wp plugin, I'm no dev (see above disclaimer), but ... most things can be done with good intentions and a deisre to learn
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aaronpk knows very little about wordpress unfortunately! But happy to help on the micropub side!
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hanni aaronpk: sounds like we might have the right mix!
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AndySylvester bret: tried both with my site (andysylvester.com), Barnaby's service works with my site (was able to subscribe to the feed URL), Sandeep's did not return any entries.
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@dietrich #indieweb photobomb. https://twitter.com/dietrich/status/449015512521904128/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/449015512521904128)
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onewheelskyward Is that a post-it on dietrich's head?
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@dietrich #indieweb in a fog? https://twitter.com/dietrich/status/449017332912758785/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/449017332912758785)
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@CaptainCalliope @dietrich Huh. I didn't realize the #indieweb used passwords. (twitter.com/_/status/449017750468689921)
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AndySylvester bret: I took a look at Barnaby's Github account, I did not see any projects there that looked like his MF to Atom service
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bret ill chat him up next time we are on together
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bret AndySylvester: here is my idea
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bret you trigger on some kind of new content event (like a new post or an edit) to send a webhook or webmention to the atom gateway. this parses your h-feed and generates the updated atom feed. when that is ready, ping the pubsubhubbub hub
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bret i was thinking about having people just deploy their own gateway to some free paass
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mattmartin anyone here willing to give some direction to a newb
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bret yeah mattmartin ask away!
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mattmartin thanks, bret. So first question I have is… are there any downsides to a .io domain?
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bret they cost a lot
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aaronpk $38 on gandi.net
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bret they are actually cool because you can target any region in the world
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notenoughneon.com edited /IRC_People (+59) "add myself to irc people" (view diff)
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AndySylvester bret: that sounds good, I assume this could be built to feed Barnaby's service or another service
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mattmartin yeah, i noticed the price
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mattmartin definitely not a bargain
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AndySylvester bret: I need to go, I will put some notes together from the IRC log and my thoughts into a weblog post
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@jackwilliambell For @danlyke: Indie Web. "When you post something on the web, it should belong to you, not a corporation." http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/449023375243870208)
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bret AndySylvester: sounds good.
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mattmartin bret, is this mostly a west coast/portland thing?
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bret there is a cool tech scene in portland way beyond indiewebcamp
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bret and, SF, well you know, its totally tech central rigth now, so there are lots of people in both places
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bret but there is indieweb uk ever year for the past few years
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mattmartin yeah, that makes sense… i live in a tech deadzone
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bret and there has been some HWC in london I htink
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bret check indiewebcamp.com/events for some history
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bret mattmartin: i wasnt involved in any tech scene before portland, it has been pretty eye opening
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mattmartin yeah, theres not a tech scene here in middle america
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mattmartin not much of one anyway
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bret then IRC it is!
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demisflanagan.com edited /projects (-7) "/* idno */" (view diff)
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@kartik_prabhu The #indieweb or: how I learnt to stop worrying and love the #blog. Comes about a year since I went indie (http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog) (twitter.com/_/status/449032538476929024)
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KartikPrabhu you guys I wrote a article on the indieweb with pictures :)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: very nice post! and purty too
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KartikPrabhu :D thanks
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aaronpk hmm my browser didn't seem to load the font
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KartikPrabhu :( in the pictures or the title ones?
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KartikPrabhu also which browser?
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aaronpk chrome 33.0.1750.152
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aaronpk https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/13440106595_862b120c36_b.jpg
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KartikPrabhu any! boo! I tested in almost all :(
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KartikPrabhu shouldn't it just timeout and give you a back up font?
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aaronpk huh,refreshed and it works now
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KartikPrabhu weird! yeah I have the same version and works in mine... oh browsers!
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aaronpk yay awesome post!
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Loqi :D
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KartikPrabhu thanks!! :)
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@kyle_wm great intro to the IndieWeb for anyone I've given an incomprehensible explanation to lately http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog (http://kylewm.com/share/2014/03/27/1) (twitter.com/_/status/449044366418378753)
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kylewm aaronpk: in your tweet preview thingy in p3k
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kylewm can I ask how you handle the situation where you edit the tweet and then go back and edit the original?
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+181) "add kartikprabhu post" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu I should really fix my webmention parsing! you nice little share looks horrendous on my site :P
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KartikPrabhu kylewm ^^
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Loqi yea
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aaronpk kylewm: if I edit the tweet, it locks it and doesn't update if I change the original text
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KartikPrabhu gee thanks Loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome
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kylewm ah, that's smart. any way to unlock it from there?
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aaronpk I think if I delete the whole tweet text it'll re-create it
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aaronpk also by "lock" i just mean changing the original doesn't change the tweet
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: lol, every time I write or receive a comment, I find there's something new to debug :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah. somehow my webmention sender threw a hissy fit while sending metions from this last post
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KartikPrabhu have to fix that too :)
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kylewm aaronpk: thank you! trying not to write a poor clone of p3k, but sometimes failing ;)
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KartikPrabhu oh well that's what we get for eating our own dog food ;)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club.jpg]]""
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aaronpk kylewm: cool!
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+129) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: damn didn't think that was nearly 2500 words!
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: Another interesting thing will be if if I get comments or likes on my share, bridgy will send them to your post too
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kylewm oh... that word count sucks, it might be waaayyy off
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KartikPrabhu oo! interesting just transmit the mention, likes to original post?
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KartikPrabhu also bridgy will really break my webmentions!
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kylewm wc says 1239 words
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KartikPrabhu that's still quite a lot :P
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KartikPrabhu decides to attack webmention parsing instead of short urls
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snarfed ooh, KartikPrabhu, if you're prioritizing a todo list, i want to weigh in with a vote :P
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KartikPrabhu ok shoot...
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snarfed someone at HWC tonight tried to use bridgy publish, but her web site only had mf1, not mf2
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snarfed so i wonder how hard it would be to add legacy mf1 (backward compatibility) to mf2py
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snarfed nontrivial, probably
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KartikPrabhu no there already is some
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KartikPrabhu maybe only hCard
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snarfed i thought so!
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snarfed ah maybe
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snarfed her page is http://amy-mac.com/
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snarfed example post: http://amy-mac.com/blog/2014/03/drag-from-desktop/
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snarfed i know aaronpk and barnabywalters ran into at least one or two catches trying to make php-mf2 support both mf1 and mf2
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KartikPrabhu aah cool... will work on that too then.
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snarfed aha. found it: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#mixture_of_microformats2_and_classic_microformats_classnames_on_different_elements
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snarfed thanks! not high priority.
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KartikPrabhu actually since we havr mf2py mostly working fixing my webmentions should not be hard
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kylewm famous last words
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KartikPrabhu "should not be hard" probably the title of my memoirs
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: wow! reading your post now. so great!!!
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: i'm gonna send your post to people who ask me what the indieweb is!
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KartikPrabhu w00t! aweomse!! :D
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Loqi yay!
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KartikPrabhu moar pictures always help
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aaronpk totally
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KartikPrabhu also inkscape is horrible
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@schnarfed RT @kartik_prabhu: The #indieweb or: how I learnt to stop worrying and love the #blog. Comes about a year since I went indie (http://t.co/F… (twitter.com/_/status/449054935158517761)
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@bear RT @kartik_prabhu: The #indieweb or: how I learnt to stop worrying and love the #blog. Comes about a year since I went indie (http://t.co/F… (twitter.com/_/status/449054999390453760)
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kylewm need a little advice from real web developers...i want to add a background queue for processing webmentions, sending stuff to syndication, etc. outside of the regular request/reply flow (Python/Flask). google is pointing me to Celery + Redis but seems like that's overkill?
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snarfed kylewm: yeah, celery + redis is both the right idea and also overkill
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snarfed how about a cron job?
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aaronpk kylewm: I really like beanstalkd
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aaronpk it's a minimal queuing protocol based on the design of memcache
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aaronpk that's what I use in p3k (and also that is what has been in production with the geoloqi API for a couple years)
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kylewm snarfed: cron is an interesting minimal idea, where would you save information about the jobs being queued?
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snarfed wherever you're storing your posts and other data
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kylewm aaronpk: thank you, I will read up on that too
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aaronpk it's simple enough to understand that it's not hard to use in any language, and you don't really need a whole frameworky thing on top of it (like sidekiq and I assume celery)
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@wikiblinks The IndieWeb, Revolution, and Other Reasons You Should Learn to Code http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ via @wordpressdotcom (twitter.com/_/status/449062789688999937)
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kylewm aaronpk: nice! so that seems right up my alley
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@caseorganic The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/03/26/1/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/449068018832666624)
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@srenan The Indieweb & why we should all learn to code > @caseorganic explains < http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/03/26/1/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/449069115789963264)
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@kevinmarks RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449072437083115521)
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@jeena @graue over there at #indieweb we're still working on the syndication problem. (https://jeena.net/notes/132) (twitter.com/_/status/449072974575202304)
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cweiske tantek, do you have a feed that contains articles/blog posts and not small notes?
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cweiske wasn't there a h-feed-to-atom gateway somewhere?
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@bfaparsons RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449076431071363072)
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: these http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/ and http://h-reader.aws.af.cm/feed/atom?url=http://www.sandeep.io/ ?
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cweiske thanks
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cweiske barnabywalter's
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cweiske one misses the post contents
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cweiske and only shows the title
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KartikPrabhu hmmm yeah i noticed
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KartikPrabhu it shows p-summary though
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cweiske and the aws one doesn't work with aaronparecki's
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cweiske articles page
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, a proper atom feed contains the full article content
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KartikPrabhu eh maybe. I have seen many that only have summary and link back to full post
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cweiske that's probably for advertisement
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KartikPrabhu oh blogs
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KartikPrabhu on*
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cweiske so that they don't "lose" visits to their site
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KartikPrabhu blogs by web designers
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cweiske designer
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cweiske s
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cweiske hah
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KartikPrabhu hmm well not claiming that it is right/wrong just that people use RSS/Atom is that way
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KartikPrabhu IMO if people want to use it that way then the tech should allow it instead of dictating the "correct way"
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cweiske oh, it allows it
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cweiske so I can't aggregate the articles from one of the main indieweb proponents in my feed reader. nice.
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cweiske interop ftw
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@GIS4Schools RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449079064314544128)
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KartikPrabhu shrugs
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@obensource RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449081026975780864)
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jsilvestre hi there
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KartikPrabhu helo
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jsilvestre I really like the reading of the website so far
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jsilvestre I'm looking at the "store" part more precisely
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jsilvestre is there other place to watch for this specific project? like a chat room or something
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KartikPrabhu this would be the chat room. i don't think there are project specific chats rooms
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jsilvestre ok thank you, i'll just sit here to see if something happens then :D
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KartikPrabhu haha... :)
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@bsimosrapin RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449100557022937088)
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Loqi barnabywalters: bret left you a message 8 hours, 1 minute ago: do you have your h-feed to atom feed code availble anywhere?
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Loqi [mention] http://www.mrmorgan.me/2014/03/27/my-current-biggest-annoyance/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitations (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.mrmorgan.me/2014/03/27/my-current-biggest-annoyance/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitations (pingback)
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barnabywalters ^^^ uh, is that actually a correct reflection of actual usage?
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barnabywalters “You should NOT include a post per­mashort­link at the end of POSSE copies of notes that include the entire note.”
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barnabywalters in order for original-post-discovery to work there should be one
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barnabywalters oh actually that quote is given out of context — although it’s still not really reflective of actual usage
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pdurbin jsilvestre: ah, so http://indiewebcamp.com/store is about about having an app store of indieweb apps. interesting
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Loqi [mention] http://www.mrmorgan.me/2014/03/27/my-current-biggest-annoyance/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitations (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.mrmorgan.me/2014/03/27/my-current-biggest-annoyance/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitations (webmention)
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jsilvestre pdurbin, for personal cloud platforms that basically need a store, that's even more interesting
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barnabywalters pdurbin: jsilvestre: yep, /store has a bunch of research and brainstorming about store formats and experience for browsing and installing server side software on servers
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jsilvestre i'm looking at it for Cozy (http://cozy.io) even if it's not the focus at the moment, we might take part of the thinking and implementation effort at some point
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barnabywalters jsilvestre: oh great! bnvk and I were checking cozy out
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jsilvestre yes, bnvk mentioned us the /store in the first place
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bnvk jsilvestre: are you from cozy?
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jsilvestre yes bnvk
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bnvk oh nice, are you Benjamin or Frank?
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jsilvestre no i'm a team member, benjamin forwarded us your email about it this morning
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bnvk awesome, glad to hear you all are into the idea :)
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jsilvestre i am personally and suggested the team we all should be, to be fair ;-)
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jsilvestre you will probably speak about that with Benjamin, I believe you guys should meet in a few weeks
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bnvk Ben seemed quite interested, I need to write him back
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bnvk that would be great to meetup, are you all based in Paris?
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jsilvestre we are working remotely, half of the team is based in Oaris, the other half is elsewhere in France
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bnvk cool
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bnvk I'm gonna add Cozy to the wiki ;)
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+58) "/* Platforms */" (view diff)
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pdurbin jsilvestre: http://cozy.io looks interesting. I imagine it gets compared to http://owncloud.org a lot
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jsilvestre yes and now http://sandstorm.io/ too ;-)
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jsilvestre it's not the same technical paradigms
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jsilvestre we are closer to sandstorm than to owncloud I guess
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jsilvestre but in a functional pov, yes, "personal cloud" platform
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bnvk jsilvestre: yes, which is why owncloud isn't on there
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jsilvestre they are not a paas, they don't have store
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bnvk right
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+2) "/* Development */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+3) "/* Projects */" (view diff)
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cweiske barnabywalters, did you open source your h-feed-to-atom proxy?
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@LloydDavis @Documentally @edent I've just posted about it here: http://perfectpath.co.uk/2014/03/27/qik-before-its-too-late-indieweb/ let me know if it helps or you can see any glaring booboos (twitter.com/_/status/449150912159031296)
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barnabywalters cweiske: not yet, on the to-do list :)
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@yellowpark RT @LloydDavis: @Documentally @edent I've just posted about it here: http://perfectpath.co.uk/2014/03/27/qik-before-its-too-late-indieweb/ let me know if it helps or you can see any glar… (twitter.com/_/status/449152988083666945)
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@LloydDavis also anyone with better skillz than me, if you can turn this into a script for everyone, much love will come your way http://perfectpath.co.uk/2014/03/27/qik-before-its-too-late-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/449153932418613248)
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@LloydDavis qik! before it's too late! http://perfectpath.co.uk/2014/03/27/qik-before-its-too-late-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/449150325111259136)
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pdurbin jsilvestre: hadn't seen sandstorm either. interesting
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@Documentally RT @LloydDavis: @Documentally @edent I've just posted about it here: http://perfectpath.co.uk/2014/03/27/qik-before-its-too-late-indieweb/ let me know if it helps or you can see any glar… (twitter.com/_/status/449162589147504640)
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@fpgil RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449163115809497088)
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@fpgil The IndieWeb, Revolution, and Other Reasons You Should Learn to Code | @scoopit http://www.scoop.it/t/nostri-orbis/p/4018460996/2014/03/27/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code (twitter.com/_/status/449183429687795712)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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gRegor` Morning, ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme how was the meetup last night?
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gRegor` Me? Chicago didn't have one last night. April 9 will be the first.
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ben_thatmustbeme i just read through the logs of it all. There are certainly plenty of projects out there that detect browser from within PHP. browscap.ini being a huge one, but thats a large file for just detecting browser
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, I am up in Boston
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ben_thatmustbeme well I live like an hour out side Boston, but I don't really want to start a meetup until I actually find people that want to meet up. especially when I could be at home with my wife
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@gRegorLove The IndieWeb, Revolution, and Other Reasons You Should Learn to Code http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (twitter.com/_/status/449197335034089472)
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gRegor` Makes sense, ben_thatmustbeme :)
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gRegor` Chicago will likely just be me and KartikPrabhu for the first meeting.
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/27/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-21/line/1395422272 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/27/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-21/line/1395436051 (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme well at least i'm starting to make progress on my ground-up version of my site
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kylewm heh, trying to send webmentions to this dude, getting blocked because i'm a robot :(
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kylewm what are you working on ben_thatmustbeme?
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: So you decided to build from scratch instead of WordPress or something else? Or using a framework?
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ben_thatmustbeme something between from scratch and a framework
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gRegor` kylewm: Like robots.txt is blocking it?
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm actually ripping apart opencart to make my own version
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ben_thatmustbeme as I like their MVC structure
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ben_thatmustbeme just throwing away all the cart portions of it
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gRegor` Ahh, interesting
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kylewm Yes I think so "The owner of this website (www.mrmorgan.me) has banned your access based on your browser\'s signature"
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cweiske snarfed, I find it a bit strange that my website is liked with https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kyle_wm/448120218687008768/2149850018
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kylewm got through that and then got "Pings are disabled for this post"
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ben_thatmustbeme once I get it to a reasonably working point (at least permalinks for posts working) I'll start a github for it
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ben_thatmustbeme and start using it in place of my current site
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snarfed cweiske: yup, i understand why it seems strange
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gRegor` That's strange, kylewm. Going to the trouble of setting up webmentions, but not testing receiving them? Or really strict rules on the UA. Hm.
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gRegor` Nice, ben.
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gRegor` I've used CakePHP framework for a few projects and rather like it. It's fairly bulky, though.
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah I've not played with that many, at this point opencart is what i know best. I decided to use it since thats really not the piece i'm looking to learn right now
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ben_thatmustbeme Plus I don't want to get half way through a site and realized I don't like the framework.
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kylewm now trying to leave a regular comment: Forbidden
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kylewm
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kylewm You don't have permission to access /^ href="http://76.126.167.105/$" target="_blank">http://76.126.167.105/$ on this server.
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kylewm nooooooo
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@uberfahr #Learning to #Code but I ain't got wings ... http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ it's the hardest thing ... (twitter.com/_/status/449202273185312768)
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gRegor` Something seems rather messed up.
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/27/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-21/line/1395422272 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/27/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-21/line/1395436051 (webmention)
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@mikearchy RT @gRegorLove: The IndieWeb, Revolution, and Other Reasons You Should Learn to Code http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (twitter.com/_/status/449203517576601600)
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@grhmc @shrtwhitebldguy @jcarouth Try BTSync, #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/449204021836791809)
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@closetgeekshow I gotta say I'm not down with this "IndieWeb" moniker, like it's some new trend or invention it's just the old-style web's resurgence (twitter.com/_/status/449207285466669056)
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aaronpk lol
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tantek and this is why we have "Beyond Blogging and Decentralization" right there on the home page
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tantek also - @closetgeekshow's profile links to a *.flavors.me site, not to an "old-style web" personal site. Doesn't seem like they're into IndieWeb in any way, moniker or with their own stuff.
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barnabywalters ha ha yeah ’cause the “old style web” totally had cross-site RSVPs
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tantek hmm - profile does say "I breathe RSS."
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tantek "You think that's RSS you're breathing when you tweet? Huh." ;)
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tantek (apologies to Morpheus)
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barnabywalters tantek: lol
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tantek love the photo aaronpk!
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aaronpk that was dietrich's!
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aaronpk came out weirdly fuzzy, but it's cool
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tantek there's something amazingly nerdy about doing a group photo via video connection
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aaronpk amber got a good action shot too: http://instagram.com/p/mCKATvpNz2/
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tantek yes - amaze
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+280) "/* Silo quitters 2013 */ add KartikPrabhu quitting Blogger, sort" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+199) (view diff)
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tantek oh wow Qik is shutting down?
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tantek http://support.qik.com/entries/26205425-Qik-service-retiring-in-April-2014-IMPORTANT-PLEASE-READ
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voxpelli tantek: there’s swedish http://bambuser.com/ if one needs an alternative then
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tantek voxpelli - silo hopping is not really a good approach ;)
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voxpelli tantek: not sure I would like to try and host that myself ;)
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voxpelli but perhaps it could be fairly easy soon with the WebRTC tech stack?
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voxpelli tantek: WebRTC ”indie” broadcasting: https://www.webrtc-experiment.com/broadcast/
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aaronpk adambrault helped me set up webrtc on my site
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aaronpk i'm not hosting the coordination server thing, but it's still pretty cool
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aaronpk anybody that clicks this URL will end up in a video call http://aaronparecki.com/talk
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voxpelli aaronpk: nice, is it working well? seems like a very viable solution very soon
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+381) "add Qik shutdown, quote, sort" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes have you guys read this: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/27/how-can-mozilla-turn-a-blind-eye-to-ceo-support-prop-8-gay-marriage
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tantek aaronpk - really? does it work on any mobile device or just desktop?
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aaronpk works on mobile devices that support webrtc (i.e. not ios)
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tantek aaronpk - is there a way to test for that? and only show a link to such devices?
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aaronpk test for webrtc support specifically? I suppsoe you could check in javascript
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barnabywalters for my webRTC calling I check for (window.RTCPeerConnection || window.mozRTCPeerConnection || window.webkitRTCPeerConnection)
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bret i have some keybase.io invites.... anyone interested in playing around with that?
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barnabywalters and show a SIP link if it’s not supported
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tantek aaronpk - I was wondering if there was anything you could do server-side and just not send the link if the client didn't support webrtc
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aaronpk ah, you could make an educated guess based on the current support of major browsers, but that's back to maintaining a list of features and versions of browsers
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tantek yeah that's a pain :(
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tantek I'm wondering if there's a quick short whitelist
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aaronpk chrome, firefox
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aaronpk ?
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tantek e.g. Android > vX.Y. or Firefox Mobile >vX.Y
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tantek right
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tantek I'm specifically thinking about the mobile use case
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aaronpk ah yeah. I still need to make my /talk page send me a push notificaiton when someone joins, like a phone ringing
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voxpelli tantek: downside of that is if someone extends eg. Safari on iOS to support WebRTC
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aaronpk otherwise it's more similar to video chat than a phone call
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tantek voxpelli - nah, then you just update your code
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voxpelli which was something that Ericsson did early on to prototype WebRTC on mobile
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tantek cross that bridge when you get to it
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tantek much better to just ship something simple that works today
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voxpelli indie code should support indie browsers, right? ;)
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aaronpk indie code should support whatever you want :P
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aaronpk (see what I did there?)
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voxpelli aaronpk: for push notifications I’m currently looking at using https://pushover.net/ for a simple start
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aaronpk cool, pushover is pretty good. also http://www.prowlapp.com/
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aaronpk I use prowl for IRC notifications
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jonnybarnes woah, tantek's page was scary then, for a second all I could see was a big picture of his face, then it shrunk into the top corner like it should do
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voxpelli aaronpk: cool, I’m thinking of adding pushover to https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ somehow to get a better feel for it
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aaronpk also there's https://boxcar.io/
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@andycoughlan http://tweepio.com/33509 qik! before it’s too late! #indieweb (via @LloydDavis) (twitter.com/_/status/449229901770420225)
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aaronpk voxpelli: cool! do it!
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@bitmakerlabs The Indie Web Revolution and Other Reasons You Should Learn to Code. *Excellent* presentation by @ambercase. http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (twitter.com/_/status/449229671587000320)
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bret aaronpk: https://github.com/keybase/keybase-issues/issues/28#issuecomment-38832309 interesting.
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bret silly text files
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aaronpk they implemented .well-known already?
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+83) "/* Upcoming */ See also blog post about qik" (view diff)
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bret yup
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bret and then going back to humans.txt style on account of github pages
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aaronpk wonder why they don't just let you specify your own filename for it
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bret should used microformats ;)
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bret aaronpk i think they want people to be able to look for the file in a common location
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bret or have that option to look
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aaronpk that doesn't seem useful to me
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aaronpk think about how it work on twitter and github, those sites determine the URL
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aaronpk commented
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bret i saw!
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bret way cool for realtime
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aaronpk ++
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tantek KartikPrabhu++ for a great blog post http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 15 karma
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tantek welcome back kbs!
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bret KartikPrabhu++ nice post :)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 16 karma
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kbs hi tantek - great to meet you in person
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tantek you too!
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kbs ah, also looking for suggestions for a (less sleazy? :-) dns provider? I've been using godaddy, looking for someone who can map it to a github.io page [cf. https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-a-custom-domain-with-pages]
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aaronpk kbs: where is your domain registered?
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aaronpk often domain registrars provide DNS as well
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KevinMarks_ getting apex domain support can be a pain
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ben_thatmustbeme kbs, haha "In person"
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ben_thatmustbeme or did you actually meet him in person
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kbs aaronpk: Ah, should have clarified - I don't have one
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kbs am looking for a good registrar+provider who can also cname it to my content currently hosted at kbsriram.github.io - hope that makes sense ;-)
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aaronpk aha
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ben_thatmustbeme most worth anything should be able to take care of the cname
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KevinMarks_ hover.com is a good registrar+DNS, but I ended up using amazon route53 to get apex domain working on heroku
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kbs ben_thatmustbeme: :-) it was a pretty neat meeting at the sf-moz location yesterday
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kbs KevinMarks_: ah, okay - thanks for that tip.
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KevinMarks_ they don't do ALIAS
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aaronpk I like namecheap.com a lot
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KevinMarks_ haven't tried github pages though
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ben_thatmustbeme kbs: you are the other person who got pulled in to this crowd because of KevinMarks_ comments on last weeks TWiG right?
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kbs aaronpk: great, thanks for the pointer
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aaronpk also gandi.net
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KevinMarks_ :D
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kbs ben_thatmustbeme: oh yes [and thank you KevinMarks_ :)]
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme we met at http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club
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tantek speaking of which
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tantek aaronpk could you POSSE that photo to IG and people-tag hashtag it?
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, thank you KevinMarks_
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tantek well done KevinMarks!
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tantek KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 11 karma
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KevinMarks_ sorry I missed you all, and hanni too
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks++ he deserves one for pulling each of us in
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Loqi KevinMarks has 12 karma
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tantek was that photo taken with a "soft focus" filter? everyone looks so dreamy ;)
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kylewm Isn't there a list of domain name registrars somewhere on the wiki? Can't find it...
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KevinMarks_ that's a fun effect
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tantek I think that was our biggest collective meeting yet
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm if not, perhaps there should be
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ben_thatmustbeme most I can find is the a list of short TLDs
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tantek well there's this: http://indiewebcamp.com/DNS
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tantek kylewm - start a stub /domains article
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tantek perhaps use bits of structure from http://indiewebcamp.com/hosting and http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains
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kylewm or /personal-domains ?
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kylewm /personal-domain rather
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tantek I think the personal is implied :)
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ben_thatmustbeme you might want to make a page for /registrars
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tantek that works too ben_thatmustbeme
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tantek though I think like kylewm, the next person would first look for a "domains" page
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kylewm tantek: I meant http://indiewebcamp.com/personal-domain already exists, and is linked to from several places
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tantek oh cool
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tantek.com edited /personal-domain (+4) "linky" (view diff)
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kylewm oh, and already redirected from domain
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ben_thatmustbeme if you really want to start somewhere (and probably cut down the list a lot, ICANN has a full list of approved registrars http://www.icann.org/registrar-reports/accredited-list.html
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ben_thatmustbeme but i think you'd spend more time sorting through the list than its worth
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tantek.com created /domain_name_registrar (+292) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /personal-domain (+62) "see also" (view diff)
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: I was thinking start from the other direction ... registrars I've heard people around here recommend :)
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kylewm namecheap.com, name.com, gandi.net
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tantek.com edited /personal-domain (+10) "/* See Also */ DNS" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, it can be helpful if you want a specific TLD to start with that list though, should probably at least link it in the wiki page
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tantek.com edited /dns (+103) "/* See Also */ more" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /short-domains (+113) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+10) "see also dns" (view diff)
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: good call
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tantek.com edited /web_hosting (+81) "more see also" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm, ben_thatmustbeme add providers you know of people actually using to this: http://indiewebcamp.com/domain_name_registrar
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tantek feel free to add opinions on support as well
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kylewm Thanks for stubbing it all out!
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KevinMarks_ silos gotta silo: http://recode.net/2014/03/27/twitter-plays-hardball-with-facebook-over-tv-and-tv-networks-gripe/
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bret KevinMarks_++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 13 karma
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tantek How does Loqi know to strip trailing _?
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Loqi is done
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kbs [thanks for the dns suggestions folks - hover.com seems adequate for my needs
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kbs together with http://nickgroenke.com/2013/01/04/jekyll-github-hover-custom-domain/]
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kylewm.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+260) "/* Registrars */ added some registrars and opinions/recommendations" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+10) "/* Opinions/Recommendations */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+12) "/* Registrars */ alphabetize" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: should we even list GoDaddy?
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tantek kylewm - feel free to list an opinion about GoDaddy :)
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tantek links to articles etc.
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tantek.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+76) "/* Registrars */ which to include" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+159) "/* Criteria */ adding some criteria" (view diff)
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aaronpk dietrich: is that homebrew photo actually that fuzzy or do you have a non-fuzzed version?
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+306) "/* Todo */ recs from Ryan and Aaron" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu catches up on lgos
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dietrich aaronpk: it's actually that fuzzy. i have no idea why :(
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caseorganic comfirmed: harvard berkman center will host indiewebcamp in oct 2014
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aaronpk aw ok. we'll use my iphone next time :)
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aaronpk dietrich: mind if I post it to instagram?
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dietrich aaronpk: sure, the license is stegonagraphically encoded in the image, by viewing the image you have already agreed to all terms.
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caseorganic.com moved /2014/MIT to /2014/Cambridge "Changed venue from MIT to Harvard."
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kbs heh
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kylewm.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+108) "/* Criteria */" (view diff)
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kbsriram.com edited /IRC_People (+54) "score one more for the indieweb" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme caseorganic: I will be there
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kbs Is it correct to assume that in indieauth, there's provider-specific 'magic' urls to find suitable reverse rel="me" links on the provider's page?
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kbs The related question is - do such (any?) providers also have ways to embed key urls - it strikes me that it might be a way to gain 'confidence' in a key obtained from any one site. (some sort of public-key analog for indieauth)
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kbs What I'm vaguely getting at is
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kbs is there already some work around automated validation/proof that a given fingerprint is really from person X? [eg: a special rel=foo link that points to (say) a post on twitter that contains key material, etc.]
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KartikPrabhu I just got the following nugget in an indieweb discussion "even for indiweb you will still end up hosting your content on a webserver which is a thirdparty. so again you technically don't own your data. so for a true indiweb you need to host data on your own servers"
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aaronpk no
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KartikPrabhu interesting... elaborate?
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aaronpk since it's the indie*web*, not indie everything, the important part is to own your web identity
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aaronpk which basically means own the URLs
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tantek ooh - good answer aaronpk
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aaronpk as long as you control the URLs, you can move between backend providers as you wish
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tantek catches up on logs
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aaronpk you are in control of your online identity if you own the URLs
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tantek dietrich++ for "license is stegonagraphically encoded in the image" LOL!
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Loqi dietrich has 4 karma
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tantek so THAT'S why it's "fuzzy" - all that license encoding ;)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: gotcha!
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kbs is a also fan of the SELFIE approach - 'Syndicate Everything from Local Files' :-)
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ben_thatmustbeme still thinks of playing Perfect Dark on N64 every time he sees the word "Syndicate"
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ben_thatmustbeme wow
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ben_thatmustbeme I miss that game
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aaronpk SELFIE! lol!!
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tantek kbs you're missing a few letters: Syndicate Everything from Local Files I Edit
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kbs tantek: love it.
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tantek.com edited /web_hosting (+712) "start FAQ with q that KartikPrabhu got, and aaronpk's answer in IRC" (view diff)
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu, aaronpk. added, please feel free to edit: https://indiewebcamp.com/web_hosting#Is_using_3rd_party_hosting_still_indieweb
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aaronpk cool
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@bear OH: "Syndicate Everything from Local Files I Edit" aka SELFIE - via @t and #indieweb IRC (twitter.com/_/status/449268447936282624)
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tantek hey now bear, attribute kbs for that please - it was his idea ;)
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@radiocolin RT @bear: OH: "Syndicate Everything from Local Files I Edit" aka SELFIE - via @t and #indieweb IRC (twitter.com/_/status/449268565229989888)
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kbs actually, I think tantek added the cherry on that retronym :-)
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bear oh!
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tantek.com created /User:Kbsriram.com (+29) "stub with URL" (view diff)
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tantek speaking of - kbs, feel free to expand on your user page ;)
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kbs ah, cool. Thanks for the pointer
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tantek you linked to it from the /irc-people page :)
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tantek I just clicked on that and started typing ;)
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@bear oops - wrong originator, it was kbs (http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kbsriram.com): OH: "Syndicate Everything from Local Files I Edit" aka SELFIE (twitter.com/_/status/449269340383481856)
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tantek :)
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kbs I guess I need to actually pay attention to the wiki edits :-)
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bear the Recent Changes page is my fav
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tantek huh - here's another MySQL tale of woe for those who say, have blogs that use a MySQL backend, and say, use shared hosting: https://twitter.com/christi3k/status/448270028484263936
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@christi3k Good news: My blog is back up. Bad news: MySQL barfed all over the table holding my posts. /me cries (twitter.com/_/status/448270028484263936)
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tantek https://twitter.com/christi3k/status/448270919341858816
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@christi3k And I'm pretty sure that happened when Rackspace hard reset my machine due to swapping. (twitter.com/_/status/448270919341858816)
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aaronpk oh man
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aaronpk fwiw postgres doesn't have that problem :)
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tantek so there you go, another reason why you can't trust databases / MySQL ;)
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@ozten RT @bear: oops - wrong originator, it was kbs (http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kbsriram.com): OH: "Syndicate Everything from Local Files I Edit" aka SELFIE (twitter.com/_/status/449269764968300544)
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kbs (thanks bear :) but still think tantek added that extra zing - so it's all good.
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bear kbs - it's important to get the sequence correct even for things that are improved and iterated on
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tantek so - how do you protect against this if you're using WordPress? https://twitter.com/christi3k/status/448342666325921793
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@christi3k Okay, so part of the problem with my blog today was that some plugin has been inserting bogus rows (~700k of them) into my posts table. (twitter.com/_/status/448342666325921793)
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tantek and this: https://twitter.com/christi3k/status/448342900330745856
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@christi3k Other problem was that caching broke after some update sometime ago and I hadn't noticed. (twitter.com/_/status/448342900330745856)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you recommend using flat files instead of dbs?
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tantek yes. http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern
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bear you can only know about the "inserting bogus rows" issue if you add metrics for database specific things and monitor logs - something that even seasoned ops folk don't do
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bear using a database works if you need what a database offers - searching and grouping
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aaronpk database barely offer searching, you really need a search app for that
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bear <soapbox state="off" />
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bear well, for a lot of folks, searching via a database is easier - especially now with key/value stores
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aaronpk (assuming you mean full text search)
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tantek.com edited /databases-antipattern (+548) "Fragile" (view diff)
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tantek bear: I agree with that only if you use db as a cache for searching/grouping, hence: http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern#Caching_ok
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bear actually I was waving-hands at the type of search - most use databases for tag or key searches
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bear yea, database as a tool to make your life easier
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tantek as a caching layer, DBs are fine. thus hard reset = dump the DBs and rebuild from actual reliable storage
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cweiske aaronpk, is there a way to follow your articles from a normal feed reader?
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KartikPrabhu aah so use dbs as meta storage for searchign etc... an use files for actual content?
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cweiske tantek at least has an atom feed
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bear KartikPrabhu - yes
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aaronpk cweiske: I thought I also had an atom feed
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cweiske it's not linked in your html
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KartikPrabhu already does that with articles... should do with notes too maybe
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aaronpk huh, where did that go
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: you mean, articles == flat files, notes are in the DB?
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KartikPrabhu yeah as of now
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aaronpk not sure how that tag went missing, but it's linked from http://aaronparecki.com/pages
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aaronpk (thank you weechat for preventing me from spamming IRC with 30 lines of code from my clipboard just now)
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kylewm !me checks to see if aaronpk's feed still works in feedly... looks cold in PDX
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bear for me they are all flat files with redis holding the relations built up from processing tags in the flat files
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aaronpk cweiske: http://aaronparecki.com/articles.atom
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aaronpk i haven't actually looked at it in a reader in a while
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tantek cweiske - I think I saw you asked about articles vs. notes? I include the ActivityStreams Atom object-type element / markup extension for any consumers that want to distinguish between those post types based on an existing spec.
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cweiske aaronpk, your feed looks fine
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tantek i.e. any Atom feed reader could (should?) support consuming AS Atom extensions and give the user the option for "only articles" etc.
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@wraithgar RT @bear: oops - wrong originator, it was kbs (http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kbsriram.com): OH: "Syndicate Everything from Local Files I Edit" aka SELFIE (twitter.com/_/status/449273330265112576)
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cweiske tantek, tt-rss unfortunately does not support it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes. flat files for reliable storage. and once you need caching or any other perf improvements, dbs are an option: http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern#Premature_Optimization
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tantek cweiske - seems reasonable to file an issue for them to support it - since it's in a published open spec
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cweiske oh, I know the author
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tantek even better!
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cweiske no. he won't implement unless I send a patch
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kylewm cweiske: fox?
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cweiske yes
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kylewm hehe
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kylewm he's a prickly one
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cweiske typical russian if i may say that
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cweiske we've got another one in #pear
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cweiske same type ...
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cweiske citing myself
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cweiske "I opened a bug reportâžš and got the not so encouraging response that I should fix that myself since the author was not willing to support "terminally lazy people""
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cweiske http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/tiny-tiny-rss-feed-detection.htm
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kylewm good outcome!
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cweiske :)
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tantek Turkish political cartoon about silos / data-export: https://twitter.com/ceyhan_ulus/status/449262343151570944
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Loqi [@ceyhan_ulus] Taşınıyorum!!!!
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tantek "Taşınıyorum" means literally "I'm moving!"
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tantek and the "N'oluyor burada?" means literally "What's going on here?"
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gRegor` Terminally lazy? Dang, that's kinda rude.
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tantek gRegor`: well it is possible for laziness to be a terminal illness. though I think that's presuming a lot.
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tantek !tell barnabywalters hickup with http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/webmention-io-comments/ ? I'm seeing many fewer (or no) results today on URLs that had lots of results yesterday
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ben_thatmustbeme now to device some intelligent way of formatting my seo urls
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tantek heh
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KartikPrabhu whats a seo url?
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ben_thatmustbeme seo = search engine optimized
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: around here we just call them "slugs" :)
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ben_thatmustbeme I don't want my URLs to just be index.php?route=blog/posts&id=5
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tantek and that's just good URL design
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tantek for *users*
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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KartikPrabhu "slugs" yes i get it! :)
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ben_thatmustbeme thats the first time i've heard that term
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KartikPrabhu i think of thoise as more "human-readable" than "seo optimised"
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, its more of writing a nice little class to do the translation for me
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caseorganic tantek++ for translating that comic
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Loqi tantek has 30 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme probably a better way to think of it
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tantek some notes here on URL design: http://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks
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caseorganic tantek: it's pretty incredible to see twitter make it into political cartoons
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tantek indeed
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes, human-optimized is a better way to design than SEO
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ben_thatmustbeme pokes around at everyone else's sites for ideas since on slug format
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onewheelskyward Good for seo, bad for humans, sometimes.
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onewheelskyward Like the slugs that give away the entire article.
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: one thing i learned from these folks -- consider making the URL uniquely identifiable without the slug, and have the slug just be for humans. so if you went to example.com/20140227/1/blog-post-title or example.com/20140227/1/edited-blog-post-title, it would redirect to the same place
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kylewm but not everyone does that -- waterpigs.co.uk for articles, the slug is the identifier
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KartikPrabhu onwheelskyward: those are just bad slugs then
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KartikPrabhu onewheelskyward ^^
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, thats why i was doing, the only issue is, originally i was going to go by post_id
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ben_thatmustbeme but i'm liking the idea of just using YYYY/DDD/#/title or YYYY/MM/DD/#/title
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tantek we discussed slugs and mutability in the channel a few days ago (last week?)
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KartikPrabhu last week yes
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@gasull Web silo http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (twitter.com/_/status/449285101101514752)
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tantek there's definitely enough there to deserve a writeup
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onewheelskyward KartikPrabhu Indeed.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: do you remember when? dig up the IRC permalink?
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onewheelskyward I love it when I can see misspellings in the slug, though.
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KartikPrabhu aah will attempt
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tantek we should start a /slug stub article with the various points discussed and opinions
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kylewm was that when KartikPrabhu was deciding between ID vs. algorithmic urls?
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tantek I think so?
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KartikPrabhu true!
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Loqi it is probable
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tantek this won't be the last time this subject comes up
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tantek and it's worth capturing the collective wisdom of this community
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gRegor` I'm updating /permalinks with some more examples
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tantek great
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KartikPrabhu still cant get dates working in Django :|
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: I didn't hear what happened with that. the generated SQL worked if you ran it manually, but no results in Django?
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KartikPrabhu yeah :(
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@demisflanagan Nice writeup/intro to #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/449286915255046144)
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KartikPrabhu and the SQL definitely gives the correct month I am loking for
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kylewm how frustrating
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tantek was there a link missing from that tweet?
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KartikPrabhu no the tweet doesnt have it either
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gregorlove.com edited /permalinks (+546) "/* Falcon */ Added WordPress examples" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu here is where i asked for short url type advice: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-20/line/1395365314
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@demisflanagan Nice writeup/intro to #indieweb http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog (twitter.com/_/status/449288572068036608)
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@geosubu RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/449288580012068866)
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KartikPrabhu lol. the missing URL in the tweet was my post :P
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demis sorry folks, bit rusty with Idno on my phone...fixed
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gregorlove.com edited /permalinks (+84) "/* WordPress */ Added taproot" (view diff)
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demis yeah sharing that one from earlier - very nice KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu thanks :)
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gregorlove.com edited /permalinks (+104) "/* Taproot */ articles" (view diff)
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gRegor` There's a start on some permalinks updates. Maybe it would be better to split them out by domain instead of platform? Since most of us are using different platforms anyway.
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gRegor` I thought WordPress would be a good one since so many sites use it, and a few IWCers do.
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KartikPrabhu Dustin Curtis on FB UI/UX : http://dcurt.is/facebooks-predicament
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tantek wow. that's a great summary of how we can out do the UX of silos.
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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KartikPrabhu UI/UX wise i thought it was great that users needed only one page to do everything. It means that the FB UI/UX now is stupider
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kylewm whoa, "This is truly a nightmare scenario for any CEO: do you take the risk and proceed with the better user experience/product at the expense of short term numbers" ... that should have a VERY easy answer
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KartikPrabhu apparently not so easy
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kylewm that /databases article + the fact that my site just converted curly quotes to â€Å“ and â€ï¿½ really freaking me out about MySQL
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aaronpk yay encoding issues
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KartikPrabhu yeah that happens
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KartikPrabhu I had to debug a webmention because of a mdash
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KartikPrabhu was very hard to track that one
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KartikPrabhu worries that mf2py is not deconding/encoding currently at the moment...
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gRegor` Converting latin1 to utf8 can be tricky
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kylewm <firstmistake>I'd hoped py3k & having all the tables in UTF8 would mean I wouldnt have to think about encodings </firstmistake>
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gRegor` This is specific to Nucleus CMS, but the code could be adapted pretty easily, if you need to convert character encodings, kylewm: https://github.com/gRegorLove/nucleus-cms-to-utf8
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tantek oh hey MySQL and encodings - yay!
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Loqi yay!
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gRegor` Which relies heavily on https://github.com/neitanod/forceutf8
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: doesn't python3 do this correctly. converting form unicode to byte strings?
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KartikPrabhu from*
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kylewm Yes, I thint it makes everything unicode unless you explicitly want a byte string for some reason
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KartikPrabhu but then you should be converting to byte string with utf8 encodings to store in your db
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KartikPrabhu oy ascii
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kylewm o_O
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kylewm crumbs
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KartikPrabhu is that not what you're supposed to do?
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@superfeedr #IndieWebCamp #Microformats Subscribing with fragments http://blog.superfeedr.com/indieweb-microformats-fragments-subscriptions/ (twitter.com/_/status/449298246406774785)
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kylewm maybe that was the wrong emoticon -- I'm not sure, I need to (re)learn about encodings apparently
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KartikPrabhu i might have it all wrong... don't listen to me. I am even afraid to see if i am doing it right
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KartikPrabhu deep deep rabbit hole
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gRegor` I am pretty familiar with encodings and converting them. Let me know if I can help.
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gRegor` One of the simplest routes I've seen is perform a mysqldump, search and replace the charset in the create table statements to be utf8, use iconv to convert to utf8, then use the dump to recreate the tables.
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gRegor` Also alter the database to set its charset to utf8, so all future tables should default to that.
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KartikPrabhu yeah i have mysql in utf8 but I am not sure I am encoding everywhere when my python talks to the db and so on. have most large holes plugged but there might be smaller leaks :)
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kylewm thanks gRegor`
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kylewm I'd probably unwisely converted them from latin to UTF8 without the dump/reload step
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kylewm but not sure why new unicode going in would get screwed up
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designdream i hate char sets!
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julien51 Ok, if anyone is interested in seeing how you can subscribe to Microformats (h-feed in particular), with Superfeedr, feel free to check this post http://blog.superfeedr.com/indieweb-microformats-fragments-subscriptions/ cc barnabywalters tantek
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julien51 [also, thanks to voxpelli, webmentions should work :)]
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cweiske the indiewebcamp wiki does not add link headers exhibiting its webmention endpoint :/
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aaronpk they're in the HTML right?
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cweiske they are
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aaronpk good enough
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cweiske but I still only do a HEAD request
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cweiske to get the link
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aaronpk why?
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cweiske to save bandwidth
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aaronpk whose?
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cweiske I don't want to parse 100k html
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cweiske mine
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aaronpk you could always fetch 1k html at a time until you find the <link> tag if you really wanted to
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aaronpk is that *really* something you need to be concerned about though?
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aaronpk bandwidth doesn't really seem like a scarce resource these days
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cweiske I linked to the wiki in one of my blogposts, and loqi did not notify
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kylewm julien51++ blog post looks awesome
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Loqi julien51 has 2 karma
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@julien51 RT @superfeedr: #IndieWebCamp #Microformats Subscribing with fragments http://blog.superfeedr.com/indieweb-microformats-fragments-subscriptions/ (twitter.com/_/status/449301914019438593)
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cweiske aaronpk, apparently it is scarce enough for tantek to doom atom feeds
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cweiske http://tantek.com/2013/272/t1/exceeded-monthly-bandwidth-culprit-atom
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aaronpk hah touche
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julien51 and with that, good night!
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Loqi ciao
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kylewm unicode disaster averted, for now. I was calling response.content (bytes) rather than response.text (string). cc KartikPrabhu, gRegor`
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gRegor` Good to hear
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KartikPrabhu cool! :)
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tantek I have a feeling as more indieweb folks implement integrated readers, we're going to figure out solutions to the problems that julien51 brings up
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tantek solutions which provide actual real world incentives to indie web site owners / creators / maintainers
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tantek right now, I've deprioritized a lot of stuff (e.g. subtome, h-entry PuSH etc.) because there is no apparent benefit to me
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tantek or rather, I've prioritized working on things which show direct benefits
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tantek maybe those of you with integrated readers working can provide an analysis of julien51's post and see how maps to your needs?
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tantek is anyone here actually consuming PuSH (of any variety) on their own indie web site?
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@panjidrama @Surmulot Alors justement, je veux bien des infos. Parce que j’essaie de voir un peut ce que vaut l’Indiewebcamp, et faut passer par l'IRC (twitter.com/_/status/449304437967040512)
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tantek btw speaking of hosting, just saw these two blog posts by Brent Simmons with real world scenarios / analysis of different hosting options/levels:
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tantek http://inessential.com/2014/03/27/what_did_i_just_learn_
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tantek http://inessential.com/2014/03/27/on_running_your_own_servers_and_why_we
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KartikPrabhu tantek: re: indiereaders. I do think having our own readers on our own site is the way to go. probably connected via mentions and micopub for noting/replying. we'll surely get to those if someone feels motivated enough... babysteps :)
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aaronpk too many things!
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aaronpk I really want to make more progress on selfoss
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aaronpk but it's not a small project
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+3) "/* projects */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_hosting (+288) "/* Articles */ add Brent Simmons blog posts" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /feed (+107) "/* Criticism */ debunk size myth." (view diff)
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tantek apples and oranges cweiske - you're comparing different content
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tantek point still stands, same content with h-feed markup < same content with Atom markup
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tantek the HTTP requests thing is orthogonal to format
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KartikPrabhu tantek: there does seem to be a number of people who want to publish only links or links+summary to articles on their homepage (including me). The RSS/Atom way would be to just have those and a separate RSS file with full articles for syndication. But with h-feed one seems to be forced to use more requests or have all articles as full text.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: then just have a separate /feed.html page
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tantek feed.html with h-feed will be more efficient (smaller) than feed.xml in Atom
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tantek that's the point
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KartikPrabhu That is my leading thought too
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tantek when you hold all other variables constant, h-feed is more efficient than Atom
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tantek that's the problem with cweiske's example, he's not holding all other variables constant
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tantek still I'm surprised that 11x HTTP requests is ONLY 2.26x ;)
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KartikPrabhu oh i don't agree with cweiske's example at all
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tantek that too me really demonstrates the efficiency
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tantek s/too/to
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Loqi tantek meant to say: that to me really demonstrates the efficiency
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KartikPrabhu control parameters and all that
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tantek right. you know, science. ;)
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KartikPrabhu yeah :)
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KartikPrabhu if you have a h-feed (with only titles) with a u-uid link to the full feed page would that be a good solution?
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KartikPrabhu or should we use rel="alternate"
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tantek oh that would be a very good use of u-uid inside an h-feed
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tantek we should document that use-case on the h-feed page
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tantek great idea
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KartikPrabhu :D
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Loqi yea
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tantek good way to do canonical h-feed discovery
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KevinMarks Hmm. I have a degenerate feed on my home page
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KevinMarks As it is just links
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tantek Kevinmarks - links only? summaries only?
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aaronpk has a one-sentence summary of the most recent 3 articles on his home page
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KevinMarks And titles
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KartikPrabhu has title+date+summary+photo on home page an archive pages
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KevinMarks Reading scrollback, encoding is a pain because the whole tool chain needs to get it right
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KevinMarks It's not just databases that have assumptions, it's languages, libraries and even browsers
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KevinMarks Safari doesn't default to utf8, for example
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KevinMarks PHP had had different default encodings in different versions
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+107) "Changed Venue from MIT to Berkman Center at Harvard" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Yay caseorganic
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Loqi woot
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caseorganic KevinMarks: yeah! really happy to have Berkman. Room for 20, so it will be small and productive like the SF one
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pdurbin nice. I work in Cambridge
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caseorganic pdurbin: fantastic! let me make the guest list page. would love to have you rsvp before event fills
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pdurbin I'll check my calendar
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pdurbin caseorganic: I listened to this today and it was great: 5by5 | In Beta #90: We Want Our 2003 Back - http://5by5.tv/inbeta/90
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caseorganic pdurbin: thanks so much! glad you liked it!
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pdurbin very good overview of indieweb
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caseorganic pdurbin: i'm going to do a shorter intro to indieweb with willowbl00 (she's our berkman center contact and also works at mit media lab right now) anything missing from that podcast you'd like included in it?
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caseorganic pfenwick: hello!
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KevinMarks Oh, so a smaller room at Berkman? I've been to events the run at the law school that have lots more space
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pdurbin caseorganic: nope. feature complete. ship it
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KartikPrabhu tantek: re to very earlier discussion on fragment level comments and having links to fragments somewhere. I just linked the titles of each section in the latest post: http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog
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KartikPrabhu might do something about fragment level webmentions in the future
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@Surmulot @panjidrama dans l'ordre je vais checker indieWebcamp, tu vas choper Androirc ou une app équivalente selon ton droguiste iPhone ou win 8 (twitter.com/_/status/449314007665889280)
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pdurbin caseorganic: no results for http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Search?search=willowbl00 ... dunno who that is
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pdurbin ah, must be http://civic.mit.edu/users/willowbl00
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caseorganic pdurbin: she's not on the wiki yet.
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caseorganic Does anyone know Jonathan Zittrain personally? Would be an interesting invite to IndieWebCamp Cambridge
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caseorganic And we do need to remember to invite Warren Ellis to IndieWebCamp UK
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KevinMarks I've met zittrain a few times
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KartikPrabhu ooo Warren Ellis.... nice
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caseorganic KevinMarks: think he'd be interested? He's part of the Berkman center. We might be able to get the event added to the Berkman page
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KevinMarks We can ask
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KevinMarks Doc Searls is a Berkman fellow too
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caseorganic.com edited /Events (+18) "/* Upcoming */ Changed MIT to Cambridge" (view diff)
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caseorganic KevinMarks: ah, that would be great
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caseorganic KevinMarks: re: Doc Searls
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kylewm.com edited /permashortcitation (+364) "/* Criticism */ Bridgy false positives looking for short citations" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /permashortcitation (+610) "/* More thoughts on use of */ more IRC thoughts about PSCs" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /permashortcitation (+64) "/* More thoughts on use of */ more context for snarfed quote" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /permashortcitation (+3) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Wait, so twitter multiple images per tweet only work on updated mobile apps?
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KevinMarks Silos within silos
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tantek in re-reading Dustin's post about FB and UX, it seems there are soom good clues there for IndieWeb reader UX: http://dcurt.is/facebooks-predicament
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kbs newbie question - are the discussion pages on the wiki reasonable places to ask for feedback on ideas (or work that's already been done) or is there a better approach you'd recommend?
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tantek kbs - discussion pages don't work very well on wikis - they typically get ignored and neglected
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tantek discussion is best here in IRC
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kbs tantek: cool - thanks for the tip
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kbs So, before I blather on - the general area to do with an indieweb proof-of-ownership of pgp keys, without needing things like keybase. Someone stop me before I go on a long discourse, with pointers to work already done?
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kbs okay then :-) The thought is to piggyback on a technique thats being used informally already - people tweet their fingerprint (cf. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atwitter.com+pgp+fingerprint+-php) to add confidence that they really are the owners of a key.
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tantek kbs - I suppose start with the use case you're trying to solve
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kbs The use-case is - I get a fingerprint from someone through email, web-site, etc. - how do I increase confidence that it's really their key
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kbs So the thought is: step 1. Someone provides a key [say] on their canonical page using the standard "key", etc microformat.
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kbs
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kbs step 2. They also provide something like (say) <a href="..." rel="key-fingerprint"> pointing to pages from one or more "major" silo'ed providers.
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kbs
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kbs The idea here is this link indicates a "proof", approximately like how one might add a rel="me" link as used by indieauth.
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kbs step 3. A validator just pulls out the raw content from the target page, and searches for a fingerprint claimed by the canonical page.
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kbs The validator might [similar to indieauth] only choose to examine specific providers, that lets it identify the silo author from a page, with a degree of confidence
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kbs finally, It then presents the list of authors (from each silo'ed site it understands) as a measure of confidence that that key. [eg: this fingerprint was found in @t's stream, tantek's g+ page, etc.]
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tantek fingerprints and confidence aren't really a use-case. secure authenticated communication would be a use-case.
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tantek fingerprints are just plumbing
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tantek users don't care about fingerprints
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kbs That's true - this is mostly about the plumbing
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tantek "mostly about the plumbing" is usually a bad way of designing or solving problems
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tantek this is why it's important to start with a user-centered use-case, absent any mention of plumbing
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tantek otherwise you get solutions looking for problems
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kbs gotcha. It starts from - how do I securely communicate with a person, given their canonical weburl
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KartikPrabhu kbs: maybe useful to verify webmentions from trusted sources?
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tantek.com edited /reader (+1160) "/* Brainstorming */ Integrated Activity Reading deductions from dcurtis blogpost" (view diff)
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kbs KartikPrabhu: ah, nice
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tantek kbs - to be clear, is this about security/privacy/confidentiality or authentication?
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KartikPrabhu good question
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tantek i.e how do you know the person you're communicating with is the person you think it is
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tantek they're related but not the same problem
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kbs yep - it's specifically about authentication
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caseorganic.com created /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+5055) "Added IndieWebCamp Cambridge Guest List Page" (view diff)
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tantek and authentication can potentially be easier to solve than a full end to end encryption/privacy
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tantek per, solve a simpler problem first
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tantek a-ha ok then authentication it is
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tantek.com edited /communication (+304) "Additional Use Cases, add Authentication" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /messaging (+33) "communication" (view diff)
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pdurbin caseorganic: is that Cambridge event free? I don't see how much it costs at http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge
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tantek.com edited /messaging (+243) "brainstorming, subhead IndieWeb Messaging vs. IndieWeb Authentication" (view diff)
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tantek kbs - I've tried to capture what I think you're getting at from a high level here: http://indiewebcamp.com/messaging#IndieWeb_Authentication
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kbs tantek: great - going through your edits and the pages - appreciate the crisp summaries :-)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: should I start a Brainstorming section on hfeed to document the u-uid idea?
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tantek kbs, sometimes it helps for someone more clueless (me in this case) to try to summarize at a high level to see if the concept is being communicated ;)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes please do, starting with the use-case you described
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KartikPrabhu cool
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caseorganic pdurbin: yes, it is free
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kartikprabhu.com edited /h-feed (+19) (view diff)
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pdurbin \o/
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+19) "/* IndieWebCampCambridge 2014 */" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+2) "/* Venue Capacity: 20 */" (view diff)
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pdurbin caseorganic: I might put "tentative" next to my name on the guest list. I have two little kids and often these things end up being game day decisions.
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caseorganic pdurbin: got it! thanks!
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caseorganic !tell dangillmor IndieWebCamp Cambridge is a go! Here's the link: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge At Berkman Center
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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caseorganic Loqi?
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caseorganic Loqi: thanks
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (-140) "/* Questions for Organizers */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu eh... how do I enter some code in the wiki?
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tantek KartikPrabhu, <pre> usually works
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KartikPrabhu aah ok. should be added to editing help