#indiewebcamp 2015-04-23

2015-04-23 UTC
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GWG 100% of attendees are now in HWC NYC
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zachdonovan we made it!
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GWG First item on agenda...how to get 200% next time
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GWG Introductions in NYC
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GWG zachdonovan is working with Red Wind.
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GWG Has noticed if there areno tags, it throws an error and would like to work with that
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tantek GWG - awesome - did you meet Leigh?
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GWG Only two in attendance.
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GWG zachdonovan and GWG
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GWG No other people seemed to show
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@ayirpelle RT @t: New York City friends TONIGHT 1st NYC 2015 #IndieWeb meetup 7p EDT @WeWork Charging Bull 25 Bwy https://www.facebook.com/events/1596554663924436 (ttk.me t4an1) (twitter.com/_/status/591033350606860289)
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GWG Planningthe next meeting of the HWC NYC chapter, which will be more successful
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david.shanske.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+157) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+26) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan.net edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (+129) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+61) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan.net uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-04-22-NYC-HWC.jpg]]""
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+75) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan.net edited /events/2015-04-22-homebrew-website-club (+38) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan.net edited /events/2015-04-22-homebrew-website-club (+35) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan.net edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (+9) "/* URLs */ comment out NYC HWC 05-06" (view diff)
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zachdonovan.net edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (+5) "/* RSVP */ comment out RSVPs for NYC HWC 05-06" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (-26) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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GWG How do you change the sidebar on the wiki?
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zachdonovan.net edited /2015/NYC (+18) "/* Interested */" (view diff)
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kylewm GWG: zachdonovan: 2 is a success! lots of successful meetings in Chicago
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GWG Where it says Recent and Upcoming
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aaronpk GWG: /next-hwc is a page that is a redirect
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GWG kylewm: I think we may need to revisit the venue and the promotion
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zachdonovan kylewm: agreed!
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GWG We have 4 weeks
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zachdonovan kylewm: but we've got ambition. ;)
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kylewm awesome
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kylewm where are techy people in NYC? my impression is brooklyn?
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david.shanske.com edited /Events (+5) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: All over.
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kylewm zachdonovan++
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kylewm GWG++
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Loqi zachdonovan has 4 karma
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Loqi GWG has 90 karma
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GWG We're wrapping up here, zachdonovan has to go home
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GWG I've identified food venues for next month, if we can't find anything else
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GWG A diner
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GWG A pizza place
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GWG And a deli
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GWG Maybe I can talk Jeremy into hosting
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GWG We're breaking for the evening
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dpg hey all!
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jayz slapps dpg with a wet trout
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JustinO good day all
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jayz select * from irc join freenode on irc.id = freenode.channel_id
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kylewm waves to HWC SF, sorry I could not make it tonight
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@benwerd Apologies for not making it to Homebrew Website Club tonight (but if you're near Mozilla SF, there's still time!) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591051591370678272)
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jayz cd /.workspace/.garbage.
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kylewm hi jayz, welcome, what brings you here?
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KevinMarks_ you coming kylewm?
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jayz the gibson, im trying to hack it from mozilla's hq. is that ok?
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kylewm KevinMarks_: no sorry I could not make it up there tonight
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KevinMarks_ ah, OK, I was hoping to continue the mf2 parsing jesuitry
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KevinMarks_ as I stopped suddenly because I had to ride a bike
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JustinO 🖖
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kylewm _\\//
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: welcome to homebrew website club! (twitter.com/_/status/591053648760811520)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I deployed https embeds of vimeo videos - when I post a note on my site it does an autoembed of the video (twitter.com/_/status/591053964327706624)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: it uses their magic vimeo embed markup without doing any network queries (twitter.com/_/status/591054140710723585)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: cassis autoembed is in my library cassis.js that compiles as PHP and JS (twitter.com/_/status/591054445326245888)
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tantek KevinMarks: one thing I did was to port cassis autoembed to Python
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we now have a python version of the cassis autoembed thanks to Kyle https://github.com/kylewm/cassis-autolink-py (twitter.com/_/status/591054872558055426)
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JustinO zalowitz
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tantek https://twitter.com/jayzalowitz
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Jay: what would it take for you to tweet from your own site like http://tantek.com (twitter.com/_/status/591055243397435392)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jayzalowitz: why would you do it that way? (twitter.com/_/status/591055305276030976)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jayzalowitz: because that way I have more control over it (twitter.com/_/status/591055388478406656)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: rather than use my website code I'd recommend using https://withknown.com/ - I've open sourced some of it as cassis.js (twitter.com/_/status/591055553205510145)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jayzalowitz: the site I have that works best is http://setonia.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/591055838875361280)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @meyerweb: I don't have much to say, I'm here to listen - I recently got my admins to fix my wordpress install (twitter.com/_/status/591055974187827200)
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GWG Did someone say Wordpress?
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tantek yes - Eric Meyer uses WordPress
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @obiwankimberly: my known site is kimberly.withknown,com -something is afoot at the circle K (twitter.com/_/status/591056911266615296)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dpg: I'm still confused about indieweb vs corporate web - I read http://indiewebcamp.com about 10 minutes before i started (twitter.com/_/status/591057173507133440)
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aaronpk at pdx we're looking at websites in a recently-compiled build of Mosaic
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tantek aaronpk - remember to ask about confirming July 11-12 for IWC with people
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dpg: techendo was blogging for founders - and they were too busy, now it is bootcamp reviews (twitter.com/_/status/591057337500246016)
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tantek same with you GWG
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aaronpk pdx.esri.com and aaronparecki.com are mostly readable
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aaronpk google.com however is an entire screen of javascript, followed by the first human-readable text of "download chrome"
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dpg: now working on channelpie which works on all my social systems (twitter.com/_/status/591057510292967424)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dpg: now I'm working on a robotics meetup and a way for bootstrappers to find money from smart investors (twitter.com/_/status/591057653457096705)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: by corporate web we are referring to social media silos like facebook, twitter g+ instagram etc (twitter.com/_/status/591058095478075392)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: rather than create an account on some corporation's site, have your own domain, but be able to do the same things (twitter.com/_/status/591058228445872128)
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GWG We have 4 weeks to improve on tonight's HWC NYC
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we do the things like tweets or likes or invites and rsvps on our sites, and send copies to the corporate sites (twitter.com/_/status/591058432259686402)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: see http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths for all the corporate sites that have lost people's data (twitter.com/_/status/591058692650491905)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jayzalowitz: why not use the blockchain? (twitter.com/_/status/591058823936356352)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dpg: I don't like polluting the blockchain (twitter.com/_/status/591058899278659585)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dpg: we find tat urls and websites keep working (twitter.com/_/status/591058939682430977)
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@questionforall RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jayzalowitz: why not use the blockchain? (twitter.com/_/status/591058957260697600)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we find that URLs and websites keep working and other things don't (twitter.com/_/status/591059070091718657)
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leofseige pdx.esri.com on NCSA Mosaic: http://i.imgur.com/a1E5z1M.png
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I can post an RSVP to my site and have a copy on facebook- it's peer to peer, but facebook is distribution (twitter.com/_/status/591059821237030912)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: with indieweb we see these corporate silos as distribution mechanisms - we don't shun thme, we use thm (twitter.com/_/status/591059954548768769)
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ttepasse KevinMarks ( KevinMarks_?), your to-Twitter-Things spams your followers with @replies, because you put the hashtag first.
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tantek KevinMarks summarizes micropub
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tantek ttepasse: no they are not @replies - they are quotes from that person
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Loqi [bridgy] Alex Howard favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/591058692650491905)
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ttepasse Hm. How should one know?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: also new is https://feverdream.herokuapp.com/ which lets you post to http://t.co/nCjZOuyZKm, tumblr and blogger using micropub (twitter.com/_/status/591060961559216128)
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KevinMarks_ the grammar is tag @name: quote
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ttepasse For me in my Twitter client it looked like a script gone amok. ;)
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tantek ttepasse: welcome to watching KevinMarks livetweeting :)
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dpg this is awesome. :)
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@skyler RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: see http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths for all the corporate sites that have lost people's data (twitter.com/_/status/591061499444994048)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we figured out the likely candidate date for indiewebcamp 2015 (twitter.com/_/status/591061898218569728)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we spend the first day starting with demos, then brainstorms. the 2nd day is a hack day, then it ends with new demos (twitter.com/_/status/591062047384801281)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: last year we did indiewebcamp simultaneously in berlin, new york and portland (twitter.com/_/status/591062240666714112)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: this year we're looking at July 11th and 12th in Portland, and potentially adding other cities in parallel (twitter.com/_/status/591062468111298560)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if anyone wants to do another location at the same time as Portland do please step up and make one on the wiki (twitter.com/_/status/591062984681771008)
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GWG Is the 11th confirmed?
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KevinMarks_ not fully, but it's looking good sofar
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tantek sounds like everyone is ok with July 11-12
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tantek here at HWC SF
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tantek PDX? aaronpk?
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aaronpk yeah!
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tantek great!
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tantek GWG?
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GWG Maybe I should go somewhere.
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GWG I'll make it work
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20150423-022304.jpg "Uploaded via email by 97127538*@*wpix.com"
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20150423-022304.txt "Uploaded via email by 97127538*@*wpix.com"
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: we find that URLs and websites keep working and other things don't (twitter.com/_/status/591065232522485761)
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-sf-2015-04-22.jpg]]""
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tantek July 11-12 is a go
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tantek we're wrapping up here in SF
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tantek going for a tour of the 7th floor
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@mengwong RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: also new is https://feverdream.herokuapp.com/ which lets you post to http://t.co/nCjZOuyZKm, tumblr and blogger… (twitter.com/_/status/591069423101870080)
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Loqi [bridgy] Skyler Writes retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (https://twitter.com/skyler/status/591061499444994048)
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@obiwankimberly Hanging with the #indieweb meet up crew at Mozila SF. Thanks @t! https://twitter.com/obiwankimberly/status/591069803286134785/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/591069803286134785)
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Loqi [bridgy] Skyler Writes favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/591058692650491905)
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KartikPrabhu waaah who gone and done this cassis-to-python port!
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GWG I'm home
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GWG So, what does everyone think about more remote participation in HWC?
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@dpg Thanks to @t @obiwankimberly @kevinmarks @meyerweb for having me. That was pretty special! https://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591079333629792259)
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@davidmead Glad it helped @kylewmahan. Credit to @aqualad2006 for fixing my attempts at coding it ;-) #indieweb http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/glad-it-helped-kylewmahan-credit-to-aqualad2006-for-fixing-my (twitter.com/_/status/591082111173468160)
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@oSoftDev That's enough #webdev for today--tomorrow will be a #javascript minefield :) #indieweb https://twitter.com/oSoftDev/status/591116015750230016/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/591116015750230016)
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@diplix @monoxyd der herr @pfefferle hat da viel pionierarbeit geleistet. es lohnt sich seine indieweb-wordpress-plugins mal näher anzusehen. (twitter.com/_/status/591134125630828544)
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@oler RT @diplix: etwas unstringenter text zum indieweb & warum volltext-publizieren in sozialen netzwerken das neue volltext-RSS ist. http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/591143175361822720)
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@pfefferle @diplix @monoxyd in der aktuellen Ausgabe vom @screengui_de ist ein Artikel über das #IndieWeb . Nicht zu technisch aber ein guter Einstig (twitter.com/_/status/591147946680393728)
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@pfefferle @diplix @monoxyd für WordPress Nutzer ist die Seite ein ganz guter Einstieg http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/591148576509681664)
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@kevinmarks “Harrumph. So because fair use doesn’t apply everywhere, SoundCloud won’t recognize it anywhere.” http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/04/journalists-shouldnt-lose-their-rights-in-their-move-to-private-platforms/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591153348914520065)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "S/CHI/NYC" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /File:20150423-022304.txt "Duplicated file: wrong extension"
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-04-22-homebrew-website-club (+103) "/* Photos */ add pdx and sf" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: great talk by @barryf on “Why We Need The IndieWeb” https://vimeo.com/125167234 with why, how to, markup, code etc. (ttk.me t4aj1) (twitter.com/_/status/591157410141634560)
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tantek BOOM: https://twitter.com/zeldman/status/590161333393432576
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@zeldman @bastianallgeier Everything I wrote for http://t.co/9PyZ3CJ65Z, Macworld, net magazine, PDN Pix, and other pubs is gone. Never again! (twitter.com/_/status/590161333393432576)
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Loqi [bridgy] IndieWebCamp favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-22-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/obiwankimberly/status/591004967512576000)
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tantek does anyone do anything special when they receive a webmention from a quotation of their content?
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tantek and if you don't do anything special when receiving a webmention from a quotation of (part of) your post, should the fallback behavior be "reply" or just a "mention" ?
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tantek I'm leaning towards just a "mention" as fallback
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tantek and perhaps marking up the link to the source of the quotation with some variant of : u-quoted-from, u-quote-of, u-quotation-of (similar to u-like-of or u-repost-of)
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tantek thinking u-quote-of (shorter than) > u-quotation-of
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tantek and new u-*-of > u-*-from because more like (and thus easier to remember) others like u-like-of , u-repost-of
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tantek welcome back KevinMarks
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tantek I'm asking the æther questions about quote/quotation posts
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@diplix @pfefferle danke auch über http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress diese step-by-step einführung gefunden, die aber auch .. http://known.schwenzel.de/2015/pfefferle-danke-auch-ber-wordpress-diese-step-by-step-einfhrung-gefunden-die (twitter.com/_/status/591173857303728128)
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Loqi [mention] felix schwenzel commented '@pfefferle danke auch über http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress diese step-by-step einführung gefunden, die aber auch gleichzeitig die indieweb...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (http://known.schwenzel.de/2015/pfefferle-danke-auch-ber-wordpress-diese-step-by-step-einfhrung-gefunden-die)
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Loqi [mention] Chris Aldrich commented 'Dan, since you're primarily on WordPress, if you weren't already, you might like to be aware that most of the principles behind WithKnown st...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/dan-since-youre-primarily-on-wordpress-if-you-werent-already)
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Loqi [bridgy] felix schwenzel favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (https://twitter.com/pfefferle/status/591148576509681664)
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Loqi [bridgy] felix schwenzel replied '@pfefferle danke auch über indiewebcamp.com/WordPress diese step-by-step einführung gefunden, die aber auch .. known.schwenzel.de/s/3OJBt' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (https://twitter.com/diplix/status/591173857303728128)
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Loqi [bridgy] Matthias Pfefferle favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (https://twitter.com/diplix/status/591173857303728128)
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KevinMarks_ would a fragmention constitute an implied u-quote-of ?
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@digitalblissltd RT @t: great talk by @barryf on “Why We Need The IndieWeb” https://vimeo.com/125167234 with why, how to, markup, code etc. (ttk.me t4aj1) (twitter.com/_/status/591198780248166400)
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@mapkyca Messing around with tor hidden services, @withknown now happily running #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591218294952169473)
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GWG Good morning
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pfefferle GWG good morning
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GWG pfefferle: What is new with you?
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@CaptainKurtis RT @mapkyca: Messing around with tor hidden services, @withknown now happily running #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591237877423476737)
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@cmal_PP Wow. It seems I can now push stuff to social networks from my own website. #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/591252015239589888)
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Loqi [mention] Ben Borges commented 'The #indieWeb Principles in the end are just common sense ideas applied to a post snowden era !' on a post https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (http://www.1-m.cc/2015/the-indieweb-principles-in-the-end-are-just-common-sense)
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kylewm huh, getting weird SSL errors trying to curl https://cmal.info/
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kylewm curl: (60) SSL certificate problem: unable to get local issuer certificate
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kylewm but looks good in the browser
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@strugee2 RT @t: great talk by @barryf on “Why We Need The IndieWeb” https://vimeo.com/125167234 with why, how to, markup, code etc. (ttk.me t4aj1) (twitter.com/_/status/591260366299996160)
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ben_thatmustbeme http://www.1-m.cc/2015/thinking-to-add-this-list-of-known-plugins-to-my
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, don't know enough about known to respond to that
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: https://forum.startcom.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2604
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ben_thatmustbeme "The SSLCertificateChainFile was the missing link."
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rhiaro sooo ssl question
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rhiaro I don't have https. My main site runs on shared hosting, for Reasons, and I discovered the other day that visiting https://rhiaro.co.uk (and accepting warnings) loads someone else's site.
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rhiaro I asked the hosting company to fix this, and they want to add a line to my .htaccess file. This doesn't *seem* like it should be the right solution. It doesn't seem like something that should have been happening at all.
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rhiaro But I don't know anything about this (it's on my todo list..) so I thought I'd get some opinions before I challenge them..
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: it actually makes sense
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: oh, okay
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rhiaro seemed like something that should be configurable deeper in apache than my .htaccess file
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ben_thatmustbeme accessing the https:// for your site goes to your server IP on port 443, if (for example) apache is not set to host your site over https, it will just go to whatever site is listed first for that server (in apache anyway)
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ben_thatmustbeme .htaccess does sound weird, but i believe in the root directory, it checks that pretty early
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ben_thatmustbeme that portion does seem odd, but i can see if working
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ben_thatmustbeme i believe it parses the .htaccess files before access anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme have you gotten that to work?
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ben_thatmustbeme that would say for sure if it works or not :)
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rhiaro it works for urls and content negotiation just fine
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rhiaro they didn't say what they wanted to add to it, just asked about what they can see is already there
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rhiaro ..which also made me suspiciuos. My rewrite rules aren't exactly mysterious, but they asked 'what they are for'
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ben_thatmustbeme who is your hosting provider?
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ben_thatmustbeme does sound odd.. actually, i'm wondering... you might be right
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rhiaro evohosting.co.uk
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rhiaro I'm with them for legacy reasons
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rhiaro they've been fine, but I've never wanted much
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, no, i think you were right actually, i am wrong, i understand why it redirects incorrectly, but unless they add a https entry for your site (which can then redirect to the non-https version, it won't work
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ben_thatmustbeme this is really on their end
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rhiaro redirecting to none https isn't good surely? shouldn't it just refuse connection?
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rhiaro consults indiewebcamp wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21316089/ssl-redirects-user-to-wrong-website-on-apache
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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rhiaro aha
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rhiaro thanks
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 66 karma
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aaronpk rhiaro: yeah that's definitely a problem on their end
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aaronpk they're obviously not gonna buy an SSL cert for you, but they should be serving either 1) your site with an invalid SSL cert, or 2) a default page of their saying "no site configured here" or whatever their normal thing is
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rhiaro aaronpk: yeah
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rhiaro they sell ssl certs
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rhiaro so they should have some idea of how to set this up
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aaronpk that's not comforting
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rhiaro their FAQ for 'how to set up SSL' is 'buy a cert from us and we'll set it up for you'
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rhiaro I'm going to enquire about how to set it up if I don't want to buy it from them, and see if they cooperate
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aaronpk you should be able to get a free cert from startssl, then give them the private key and cert and they should be able to install it
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rhiaro but whether they will or not is the question ;)
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aaronpk yup
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rhiaro maybe if I ask this via a public tweet I'll get better results
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bret i'm getting the impression the goal of linked data is to turn the web into a relational database
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kylewm ...which sounds awesome?
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bret as a loose theory, but modeling information expresses worldview and opinion
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bret seems hard to make that scale
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aaronpk i also don't see how that overlaps with making a twitter clone
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bret was just watching http://www.ted.com/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web
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bret http://www.osnews.com/story/28499/_quot_Apple_now_rejecting_applications_with_Pebble_support_quot_
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aaronpk oh boy
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bret apples going to get in trouble if they keep doing this
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aaronpk i wonder if that's why there hasn't been a pebble update since february
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bret this is some serious IE level bullshit
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aaronpk in order to publish your JS pebble app and make it available to iOS, Pebble has to recompile their own app and push an update on the pebble store
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aaronpk so they have this forum thread where they were announcing "submit your changes by X date" which is when they'd go do a build and publish to the store
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aaronpk http://forums.getpebble.com/discussion/12451/pebble-js-bundling-updates
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aaronpk it stopped updating in february
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aaronpk oh snap! they just posted again 2 days ago!
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aaronpk oh this is good news, this means Teacup for pebble is going to be available on iOS!
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bret i hate app stores with passion, every os x app i have ever bought eventually burned me in some way (eg sorry we just cant do that in the app store version)
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bret the only one that remotely gets it right is steam
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aaronpk some of that is iOS platform limitations
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bret ios the alternative is actually worse
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bret eg cydia
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bret desktop though, I pretty much avoid the app store almost all together
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bret windows app store is horrid too
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders if anyone else has worked on person-tag lately
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AcidNerd do you know how is the wordpress implementation of indieweb manage plugins upgrades ?
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AcidNerd and if there would be a simple way to know there is upgrades to plugins (beside rss,git hub follow to check coder activity)
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AcidNerd also thinking on doing a simple .sh script that would wget the latest version of each plugin when executed
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AcidNerd but it seems Known indieweb plugins are already spread among a few people, so i wanted to know if there is a comprehensive list somewhere ?
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell benwerd http://www.1-m.cc/2015/thinking-to-add-this-list-of-known-plugins-to-my
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme can ask benwerd that way
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ben_thatmustbeme also, woo, got person-mentions working now. Only mentions of my homepage will show up on the sidebar on my site
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rhiaro aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme: ssl update - I got a reply from someone higher up the chain explaining that the cert thing was to do with an IP address problem resulting from the server being ddos'd a couple of months ago. still their fault, but better than them just being incompetant. Also it's a few cpanel button clicks to install my own, so I'll do that soon.
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aaronpk oh good
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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zachdonovan afternoon, folks!
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rhiaro https://snarfed.org/2014-04-08_8929 <- does this mean that snarfed likes ben_thatmustbeme, or ben_thatmustbeme's homepage/site?
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm not sure honestly
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ben_thatmustbeme what does that url represent?
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rhiaro also nice work on person tags :) I want to add that soon
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ben_thatmustbeme me? or my page?
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ben_thatmustbeme or is it a document? we should discuss this....
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rhiaro quite
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aaronpk oh no
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rhiaro I hate to mention it, but this is what the httpRange-14 issue was supposed to resolve :D
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ben_thatmustbeme hehehe
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rhiaro hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, since it is a URL and not an H-card, i would assume it to be liking the site, not the person
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ben_thatmustbeme or more clearly "since it is not an h-card, its not meant as the person"
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rhiaro I would agree
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rhiaro does your h-card have a unique identifier?
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rhiaro so someone could like you as a person if they wanted to?
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aaronpk omg did you just solve httprange14 with microformats?
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rhiaro that conclusion is the same as httpRange-14
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm... wonder if i should actually aaronpk, not quite, only for references
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ben_thatmustbeme forgets to remove unfinished lines
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, not quite, only for references
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm... wonder if I should split those out and have "site mentions vs person-mentions"
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ben_thatmustbeme in which case, this is probably in the wrong section
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rhiaro so acceptably to semantic web pedants you could whack a # on the end of a url to make it represent you and not the site
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rhiaro and that's basically a summary of the httpRange14 resolution
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ben_thatmustbeme which i think is a TERRIBLE idea
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rhiaro how come?
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aaronpk i am not a hash sign :P
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rhiaro you could also use a different url altogether
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ben_thatmustbeme since # is supposed to be processed by the client, and will not get passed to the server
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ben_thatmustbeme a different URL is better
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rhiaro that's the idea ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme google.com#notaperson
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ben_thatmustbeme is that a person now?
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rhiaro it doesn't have to be
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rhiaro it is just used for differentiating between websites and not-websites
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rhiaro aka information resources and non-informational resources
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ben_thatmustbeme it just pushes the ambiguity further though, now any url with # could possibly bbe considered not-a-website
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rhiaro good timing tantek, it's httpRange-14 time :D
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ben_thatmustbeme even though it is
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, lets just stop here
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rhiaro yeah
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rhiaro Sorry, I did that on purpose :)
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ben_thatmustbeme i like the "microformats solves httpRange-14 statement"
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ben_thatmustbeme and end there :P
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aaronpk do I need to add an "httpRange-14" trigger to Loqi?
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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rhiaro haha, kicks everyone who mentions it
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ben_thatmustbeme add "issue-19" too
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rhiaro well httpRange-14 *is* a resolution (supposedly) not the problem itself
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rhiaro (the problem being we can't (yet) use http for teleportation)
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tantek rhiaro nah - no hr-14 problem here
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tantek catches up on logs
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ben_thatmustbeme anyway, i think i am actually doing it wrong on my site. those mentions are stored as "person-mentions" but I don't think i should have changed that
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, its a trap
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I got this
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@kantrn Was searching for a provider to replace the now-disabled Google OpenID delegation. Found https://indieauth.com/ by @aaronpk. Super cool! (twitter.com/_/status/591301153771679745)
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tantek NICE ^^^
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tantek and when was Google OpenID delegation disabled?
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ben_thatmustbeme sweet!
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tantek need to add that to /site-deaths
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tantek ok in FIFO order
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ben_thatmustbeme https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenID2Migration
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tantek good mroning GWG :)
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ben_thatmustbeme migrated to something else
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: can you add that to /site-deaths ?
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tantek and add a citation to that tweet too
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tantek aaronpk - wait what? when? re: "Teacup for pebble is going to be available on iOS!"
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tantek ok caught up to rhiaro's question
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: could you explain this -- "since it is a URL and not an H-card, i would assume it to be liking the site, not the person"? Are you thinking a like of a person would be "u-like-of h-card" rather than "u-like-of h-cite"?
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tantek ^^^ not necessary
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tantek rhiaro re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-23/line/1429811317658 it's easy - with following links and looking at the root microformat object
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kylewm h-card and h-feed are both root microformats objects
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tantek step one, snarfed's post https://snarfed.org/2014-04-08_8929 is a "u-like-of" "http://ben.thatmustbe.me/"
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ben_thatmustbeme i would argue that is the case kylewm. u-like-of ben.that.... = like the web page, u-like-of h-card ben.that..... = like of the person
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tantek step two, get http://ben.thatmustbe.me/ - redirects to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/ - presumed canonical/equivalent as determined by the site
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tantek step three parse it for microformats http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://ben.thatmustbe.me/
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: I like it
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tantek step four look at the *first* root microformats object
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tantek step five it's an h-card of "Ben Roberts" - a person
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rhiaro tantek: is this already on the wiki?
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tantek conclusion: the like is of a person Ben Roberts
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tantek in pieces
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ben_thatmustbeme eek... hmmm... so by changing the h-card to be later in the page i change all likes of me to likes of my page?
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ben_thatmustbeme s/page/feed/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: eek... hmmm... so by changing the h-card to be later in the feed i change all likes of me to likes of my feed?
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tantek yep. it's why my h-feed is *inside* my h-card on tantek.com
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rhiaro Sounds like having the h-card or not in the u-like-of is more precise
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tantek rhiaro: nope, because as the external linker, you don't get to be authoritative about what the site is
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rhiaro what if you specifically want to like someone's feed rather than h-card?
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rhiaro I guess then if they don't provide it, you can't
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tantek rhiaro: fragment or fragmention. duh. ;)
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rhiaro huh?
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tantek URL with
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tantek want to like something more specific? link to something more specific.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: FYI your x-pronouns look buggy
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kylewm world's converge as tantek advocates kylewm.com/#me to link to a person
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ben_thatmustbeme oh god no
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rhiaro tantek: so do you think the person should always be more general than the site, or it doesn't matter which way round they go (h-card inside h-feed or vice versa)?
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tantek kylewm it's by design since we first came up with XFN
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tantek rhiaro: you're asking a cultural question, not a technical question, that's your first confusion.
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tantek people refer to sites as people, therefore the person
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rhiaro tantek: I'm asking if you think there should be a general rule/best practice for this, or if it's just up to the person
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tantek no I'm saying there is an established cultural practice for this
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tantek established by bloggers in the late 1990s and early 2000s
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rhiaro I don't think of people as sites
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tantek it's why hr-14 is irrelevant in practice
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rhiaro I wouldn't have expected people to think of my site as me
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, it also puts a burden on the person posting the like to figure out if they are liking the h-card or the h-feed
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tantek rhiaro: right, because the SW folks have confused you about that
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tantek however, pre-Facebook, bloggers all referred to each other by domain
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rhiaro no, before I knew anything about SW
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, then shouldn't u-tag-of be sufficient without u-tag-of h-card ?
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tantek well establisehd at SXSW etc.
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kylewm I think ben_thatmustbeme's pronouns are buggy, e prefers eirs pronouns gender neutral
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rhiaro I was on the web for a long time before I was on the SW
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kylewm s/are/are not
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: I think ben_thatmustbeme's pronouns are not buggy, e prefers eirs pronouns gender neutral
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: no because the tagging semantics are expressed *by* the linker
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kylewm south-by-semantic-web?
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tantek heh - indeed - lots of lowercase semantic web was conceived / deployed there
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tantek rhiaro: my point is, there's a pre-established cultural practice that emerged naturally. people as sites/domains.
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tantek as a scientist it makes sense to look at and use that data
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ben_thatmustbeme if you mean buggy because of the choice of pronoun, it isn't thats by design, mainly for testing
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tantek instead of being a philosopher
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tantek which is the fundamental reason why hr-14 is ignorable
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tantek it's science vs. philosophy
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: neat! so kylewm was right then.
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek could you explain why its different a little more. You mean if i said I Like Bob Jones and included the person's name, etc then its okay to use an h-card
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rhiaro tantek: Admittedly my dataset is probably smaller than yours due to less experience, but I didn't observe this in blogging and web circles (pre-facebook) at all
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: simple. There are such things as person tags as established by common practice in silos
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: there is an established practice of liking a person, look at tinder, ok-cupid, etc
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: right, it's the difference between information that is a "preview" of sorts of data that is at the site, and information that indicates author intent
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ben_thatmustbeme so lacking the h-card, it falls back to parsing the page for the first top level microformats
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ben_thatmustbeme but with an h-card its unambiguously a person
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tantek btw it's not u-tag-of h-card anyway
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tantek u-tag-of links to the h-entry that you're tagging
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tantek that you are making a TAG OF
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, sorry, u-category
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tantek it's the u-category h-card that's the person tag
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: right, it's author intent - on both sides
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tantek my point was, it was easy to answer rhiaro's question
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ben_thatmustbeme blames kylewm for leading me astray it "Are you thinking a like of a person would be "u-like-of h-card" rather than "u-like-of h-cite"?"
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loqi.me created /belong.io (+125) "prompted by kylewm and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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tantek you can have a "u-like-of h-card" if you like
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ben_thatmustbeme so, then my question is this, can you make a u-like-of h-feed ?
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tantek you can have <a rel="met friend colleague" class="u-like-of h-card" .. > too
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: no because the object itself is not an h-feed
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tantek that's the problem with that
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tantek it only works for h-card because an h-card with just name and URL works
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tantek whereas a feed does not
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, is there a way to unambiguously refer to an h-feed when the h-feed is not the first item on the page
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ben_thatmustbeme s/first item/first top level mf class object/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: yes, is there a way to unambiguously refer to an h-feed when the h-feed is not the first top level mf class object on the page
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tantek fragment or fragmention
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tantek is there a way to unambiguously refer to something on a page? yes, use a fragment or fragmention to it
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ben_thatmustbeme makes it feel like there is something missing in microformats then
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kylewm.com edited /belong.io (+235) "add citations" (view diff)
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tantek I think we've got the use cases covered, therefore, nothing missing
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tantek rhiaro - re: is this on (a/the) wiki - looks like my thoughts have evolved since the last time I captured
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ben_thatmustbeme fragments only work IF there is an ID attached though. without any.... and fragmentions are going to change based on content (besdies it would be liking a specific passage)
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rhiaro so the answer is: follow the microformats
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rhiaro I think it'd be good to have a protocol of sorts, like you described step by step tantek, documented
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: right, so if you have to enable it as the publisher
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rhiaro but yes, as ben_thatmustbeme says, if the publisher doesn't provided a suitable fragment to use, you have to assume they don't want people to like their feed/h-card
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tantek just as you enable stuff by adding microformats
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rhiaro hmmm, this turned out to be a super useful conversation
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tantek really? which part?
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rhiaro and here I just thought I was trolling
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rhiaro clearing up how microformats can be used to reference people or feeds, and how people think about these things
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ben_thatmustbeme but you added microformats, that should be enough to enable liking, seems rather odd to require an ID on feeds to like them, but not on h-cards
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ben_thatmustbeme although, i can see the difference
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rhiaro microformats are not yet deeply embedded in my psyche so I forget
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: So I guess it's also up to the publisher to decide whether they want person or feed at top level
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rhiaro (example pending)
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rhiaro and you follow the microformats when liking to figure out what you're liking
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rhiaro or, I mean, to make sure you're liking the appropriate thing
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, which seems rather confusing to me
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ben_thatmustbeme the same markup on my site, with different URLs can mean wildly different things, so my thought was, can I specify h-card always if its a person and something else always if not, and avoid any ambiguity in my likes
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ben_thatmustbeme how do those that do not have the h-feed on their homepage mark-up the link to their feed?
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: rel=feed
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ben_thatmustbeme href="http://ben.thatmustbe.me/" class="u-like-of" rel="feed"
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rhiaro http://rhiaro.co.uk/#amy
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kylewm !tell elf-pavlik were you ever able to connect to woodwind with indiecert?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: no. rel indicates relationship between 2 documents
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: ^ so because I want my url to refer to my site, not me
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rhiaro that should work for microformats people whilst also being fine for SW people
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KartikPrabhu if you do a u-like-of with rel=feed it will say that the like post has a feed
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kylewm KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 92 karma
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KartikPrabhu rhiaro: I think you want to look at: http://indiewebcamp.com/representative_h-card
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rhiaro KartikPrabhu: thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: "the like poast has a feed"?
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, i see, parsed that english wrong
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KartikPrabhu it will say that the like-post has a feed page at the linked URL
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm
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ben_thatmustbeme there is no method to link to a feed that isn't "that feed is the feed for this page"
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KartikPrabhu not that I know of. what is the use-case?
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KartikPrabhu you can have multiple feeds for the same site all markedup with rel=feed from homepage. eg. https://kartikprabhu.com/ see nav links at the bottom
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GWG Good afternoon
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ben_thatmustbeme getting away from likes, how about a list of feeds i follow
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ben_thatmustbeme where the feeds are not necessarily the first item in the page (h-card before them)
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ben_thatmustbeme this would be for publishing a list that i can use in any reader
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GWG Disclaimer: Afternoon may not vary. Void where prohibited.
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ben_thatmustbeme reader gets my list of h-feeds to follow
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ben_thatmustbeme btw, i used to have two h-feeds and a h-card on my homepage, it would have been impossible for anyone to follow my "articles only" feed
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@voxpelli @julien51 WebMention / Pingback / Salmon are/were the solutions to that, right? Salmon even had a feed item format if I remember correctly? (twitter.com/_/status/591311868985245696)
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: I recall a discussion at the microformats wiki using "rel-following" or something
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KartikPrabhu can't find it now
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voxpelli XFN rel-follow would be the way to mark up a list of feeds one follow
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: see http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-brainstorming#fans_and_followers
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voxpelli Then step 2: Convert to OPML 3: Do a live import to a reader 4: Profit!
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ben_thatmustbeme rel-follow would still nto be able to specify a feed within the page however
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ben_thatmustbeme although not sure thats necessarily important
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ben_thatmustbeme so long as rel-follow assumes it only refers to h-feed not an h-card
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: yeah. why is that important. if there is a separate feed page link to that
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ben_thatmustbeme as rel-follow h-card seems rather.... like a stalker
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KartikPrabhu that is the usual defn of following on social netwroks
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: there isn't a seperate feed page
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@voxpelli @julien51 I know, kind of a catch 22, barely any blog support either :/ Also: For many readers https://indiewebcamp.com/webactions would be better fit (twitter.com/_/status/591313093269028865)
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ben_thatmustbeme enjoys playing devils advocate
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ben_thatmustbeme still can't like an h-feed unambiguously though
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KartikPrabhu then link to whatever page has the feed
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: can't, an h-card occurs on the page above the h-feed
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KartikPrabhu if you want something to be unambiguously refered to then it should have its own URL
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@voxpelli @julien51 To go all Indieweb on you: Perhaps Micropub-support in Subtome – publish follow activity to ones blog which could then WebMention? (twitter.com/_/status/591313486132736000)
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KevinMarks We came up with xfn to link to sites as people, and it got huge adoption
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KartikPrabhu i mean. suppose i go all old school and publish posts only in a stream and not have individual URLs and pages for each post, how will you like a particular post unambiguously?
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KevinMarks http://epeus.blogspot.com/2008/01/urls-are-people-too.html
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, thats a fair point KartikPrabhu
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KevinMarks And blogging practice was always to link to people's blogs as them when citing
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 107 karma
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@kylewmahan @julien51 @voxpelli I don’t have feedbin anymore (because http://t.co/jvd8mj42AA!), but it’s described here http://indiewebcamp.com/feedbin#Sharing (twitter.com/_/status/591314168747286529)
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Loqi [mention] Kyle Mahan commented '@julien51 @voxpelli I don’t have feedbin anymore (because reader.kylewm.com!), but it’s described here indiewebcamp.com/feedbin#Sharing' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/feedbin#Sharing (https://kylewm.com/2015/04/julien51-voxpelli-i-don-t-have-feedbin-anymore-because)
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@voxpelli @kylewmahan @julien51 Unfortunately no https://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config support so one has to configure manually :( (twitter.com/_/status/591314231586324484)
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KevinMarks We'd link to blog posts and cite by name - here's me in 2001: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2001/11/winer-and-locke-are-having-spat-about.html
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voxpelli One can always add a hash to link to a specific part of the page in an XFN, link, no? Then whether client supports such advanced parsing is another matter
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: only if the publisher provides the fragment as id
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KartikPrabhu fragmentions technically refer to some particular text and not a fragment/element on the page
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voxpelli I guess that's pretty okay though?
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: not if the goal to to link to a particular h-feed or something
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: if you have many h-feed's, why not give them ids?
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KartikPrabhu <shrug> i would give them their own URLs
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KartikPrabhu but the problem discussed above was "what to do if that is not the case"
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ben_thatmustbeme i think i have convinced myself h-feeds should just have cannonical URLs
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ben_thatmustbeme and then in my main site i will just list h-card first, and assume any likes of my homepage, are likes of Me.... because everybody likes me
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ben_thatmustbeme (i can assume only because it is listed first)
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snarfed GWG++, just wanted to give you some props, i've really been enjoying having visible syndication links (icons) on my posts! e.g. https://snarfed.org/2015-04-21_introducing-color-genomics
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Loqi snarfed: gRegorLove left you a message 1 day ago: I'm getting some 401 Unauthorized errors on Bridgy Publish after it redirects back from Twitter. I got one yesterday but it worked on re-try. Just happened again twice, though. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-22/line/1429730013713
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Loqi GWG has 91 karma
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snarfed thank you for writing that plugin!
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Loqi [bridgy] Julien Genestoux favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/feedbin#Sharing (https://twitter.com/kylewmahan/status/591314168747286529)
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kylewm oh my goodness, something weird is happening
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kylewm the fat pings I get from withknown.superfeedr.com give me activitystreams JSON ???!
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@withknown RT @mapkyca: Messing around with tor hidden services, @withknown now happily running #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591324309190152195)
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kylewm http://pastie.org/10110316
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kylewm ah, because Known does content negotiation, and superfeedr must be requesting with Accept: application/json
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kylewm wrench, meet works
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voxpelli weird if Superfeedr prefers JSON above Atom/RSS though? sounds like someone is doing the content negotiation wrong
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: I don't have a h-feed yet. on my homepage I want to play with sorting and displaying content in lots of different ways, so I intend to have a totally separate page that's just a feed of everything
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rhiaro and I agree that h-feeds are important enough ot have their own urls
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kylewm voxpelli: would one expect werd.io/content/all to return RSS with Accept: application/rss+xml?
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voxpelli kylewm: wouldn't expect, but it would be possible?
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: also if you wanted to tag a feed you could use that
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AcidNerd would be great
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@voxpelli @aaronpk @julien51 Remembered now that @hmans is planning to send WebMentions as well – but for follows themselves: https://github.com/hmans/indiepants/issues/61 (twitter.com/_/status/591330186278240256)
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voxpelli it's hard to tweet unnoticed around here :P
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hmans concurs
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hmans We're just about to complete our move to the new flat. I have a Pants room now!
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hmans I'm sitting in it!
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hmans It's awesome!
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ben_thatmustbeme a Pants room?
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hmans Yes!
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hmans A room for the sole purpose of developing Pants.
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ben_thatmustbeme not developement for other thing
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rhiaro Ooh I doubt this is a new idea, but following page as ^ hmans plans would be useful for if you wanted to switch readers. You could sign in, new reader can discover your following page, and follow everything for you
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rhiaro only works if you're okay with public list of following though
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kylewm benwerd: I sort of figured out what's going on with Known and push pings
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kylewm I am getting them from you, but they contain activitystreams JSON instead of HTML in the body (!!)
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: doesn't necessarily need to be public, could be done with auth first
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benwerd kylewm: iiiiinteresting
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: aye
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Loqi benwerd: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 33 minutes ago: http://www.1-m.cc/2015/thinking-to-add-this-list-of-known-plugins-to-my http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-23/line/1429810605227
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ben_thatmustbeme also, according to xfn, you can do that to link to a page with rel=me
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ben_thatmustbeme i went through that when figuring out how to publish my whitelist correctly
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: I'm not sure I follow?
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benwerd ben_thatmustbeme: neat, thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/whitelist
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ben_thatmustbeme all pages on my site have a link in the header
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rhiaro where's rel=me?
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ben_thatmustbeme <link rel="me" href="https://ben.thatmustbe.me/whitelist">
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ben_thatmustbeme if you wanted to do this with a following list it should be the same
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rhiaro oh, why does rel=me make sense?
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hmans rhiaro, I publish all my followings (and followers) on http://hmans.io/following (courtesy of old-pants, which is still powering the site)
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: isn't that implying that the /whitelist is the same as you? I think I'm missing something
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: it does. its saying this is MY contacts.
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rhiaro hmans: awesome. be great if readers use this to auto follow everyone
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ben_thatmustbeme looks up reason why he did this
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: oh, I didn't read it that way
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rhiaro I thought rel="me" just meant this also represents me. Which, to me, a contact list wouldn't be.
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rhiaro hmans: do you get your followers from their sites?
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ben_thatmustbeme http://microformats.org/wiki/social-network-portability
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: we had been discussing it around here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-14#t1413323633233
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbe: fab, thanks, that's interesting
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tantek returns - sitting in W3C TAG meeting as an invited guest
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tantek GWG, congrats again on organizing HWC NYC - like Chicago, two is a humble beginning, but there's lots more people / transit in NYC, so you've got some good potential ahead of you.
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ben_thatmustbeme just get KevinMarks to plug it on TWIG :P
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tantek seriously
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: add that to /HWC page - in a "how to promote" section ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme hah
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: re: (i can assume only because it is listed first) <-- it's a reasonable general assumption since people typically put their names at the top of their sites, which should be marked up in h-card, before any stream-like content.
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zachdonovan haha, hey! what am I, chopped liver?
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zachdonovan ;)
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tantek zachdonovan++ for hosting HWC NYC!!!
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tantek :D
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Loqi zachdonovan has 5 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme zachdonovan: i have not met you in person... so I don't know... are you? how are you typing?!
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zachdonovan haha, aw, shucks
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zachdonovan ben_thatmustbeme: it's pretty messy
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zachdonovan but in all seriousness
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zachdonovan GWG++ for making it happen (marathon commute and all)
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Loqi GWG has 92 karma
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kylewm if you missed it, this twitter self-dogfooding fail is interesting: http://eggsbacon.co.nz/twitter_mau
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tantek wow
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tantek that's definitely worthy of adding / linking / embedding in /Twitter#Criticism
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kylewm doing it now
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tantek ok giving myself a wiki-task too - going to add subheads to some years in /site-deaths
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tantek since the previous site subheads "looked better" according to aaronpk
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kylewm.com edited /Twitter (+330) "/* Criticism */ add Dogfooding failure by execs" (view diff)
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aaronpk funny how @katies has 92k followers and isn't even a verified™Â account
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tantek you can't be verified as a twitter employee
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kylewm.com edited /Twitter (-11) "/* Dogfooding Fail */ fix typo" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh
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kylewm why is that?
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kylewm appearance of impropriety i guess
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tantek just their policy
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ben_thatmustbeme yay, fixed my photos display on mobile
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ben_thatmustbeme images were ending up too big
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+633) "/* 2013 */ add subheads for sites, citations for yahoo local api shutdown" (view diff)
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tantek man adding those subheads is depressing, it's like revisiting and typing the names from a graveyard
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tantek (aside) snarfed: congrats on Color Genomics product launch!
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tantek that post is a great example of integrating backfeed from lots of silo copies
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snarfed tantek: thanks!
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snarfed ahh true
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tantek.com edited /backfeed (+113) "/* Ryan Barrett */ add another nice example" (view diff)
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snarfed also clearly demonstrates that i need facepiles
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snarfed baby steps
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tantek despite "need facepiles" - the presentation is still beautiful and quickly conveys to non-indieweb people how awesome POSSE+backfeed is
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tantek which is why it's a good IndieWeb Example to list for backfeed
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snarfed glad to hear it!
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tantek.com edited /backfeed (-21) "IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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tantek "show me an example indieweb" is a common request
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tantek and what they really mean is: show me an example of indieweb that quickly shows what's cool/awesome about it, and better/different than just a blog
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snarfed agreed
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snarfed clear examples that are visually self explanatory always help
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tantek and now that I have like posts on my site… ;)
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tantek (remind me what's the rough lag time on seeing webmention responses show up on your posts?)
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tantek is it - whenever you check your moderation queue?
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snarfed @tantek: roughly half the time it needs me to clear the cache. i've never quite prioritized figuring out how to tune that :/
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snarfed fixing now
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tantek ah - supercache?
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snarfed done
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snarfed yeah
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tantek nice!
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tantek yay my indie-like showed up :)
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snarfed there are a few native comments, but you and kylewm have the honor of the only two indie likes
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tantek :successkid:
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snarfed s/honor/something/ :P
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Loqi snarfed meant to say: there are a few native comments, but you and kylewm have the something of the only two indie likes
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aaronpk goes to like the post
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aaronpk i really need to fix my display of likes to not show the whole blog post of the thing i'm liking
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aaronpk should show the name of the post instea
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tantek I'm really quite happy with my minimal display, and specifically the placement of my icon next to the "likes" : http://tantek.com/2015/113/f1
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snarfed totally! text first design ftw
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tantek yeah. I think I was much more thorough with the notification/text first design methodology with my design for "like" posts than any other content type.
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zachdonovan what is text first design?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "text first design" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=text+first+design&summary=prompted+by+zachdonovan+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-23%2Fline%2F1429826191277
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tantek yeah I know I need to do a blog post on that :/
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zachdonovan :)
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aaronpk nice
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zachdonovan looking forward to it!
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KevinMarks_ have you seen the http://responsivedesignworkflow.com/ book?
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Loqi [mention] Chris Aldrich commented 'Updating @WithKnown Past 0.7.7 and Keeping Social Media Integration 3 min read ...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/updating-withknown-past-077-and-keeping-social-media-integration)
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KevinMarks_ it says to start by designing the text
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tantek KevinMarks: as a book, it's out of date already
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+215) "blog about notification first design text only design" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ "The world’s first web page was practically mobile ready. And that was in a time when there were no tablets or smartphones. There’s one simple reason for this: the web page consisted of plain text."
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tantek mobile ready is not good enough any more. you need to be notification ready for pieces of microcontent. and now watch ready.
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tantek like I said, book = out of date
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KevinMarks_ sure, books are that way, doesn't mean they aren't useful for supporting quotes
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tantek zachdonovan: ok captured / collected in my indiewebcamp inbox here: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#inbox feel free to add more suggested things you want me to blog about it
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tantek zachdonovan: if you want something to read now, and you're the type that learns theory by example, check out the design steps here: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#notification_first_design
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zachdonovan tantek: thanks! double thanks!
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KevinMarks_ reads scrollback
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KevinMarks_ the discussion about post links within a page of short posts - thta was the original blogger style, and the preserve the permalinks
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KevinMarks_ so the post from 2001 links to http://www.rageboy.com/2001_11_04_blogger-archive.html#7022398 and http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2001/11/10#lb6dfc398694f7b70d44d26bde292f696
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KevinMarks_ though looks like winer broke his archives
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tantek yeah
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KevinMarks_ wtf? when did my blog get schema.org injected?
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KevinMarks_ I was looking for the old permalink http://epeus.blogspot.com/2001/11#7053068
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KevinMarks_ and found <div class='post hentry uncustomized-post-template' itemprop='blogPost' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/BlogPosting'> <meta content='3200930' itemprop='blogId'/> <meta content='7053068' itemprop='postId'/> <a name='7053068'></a>
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tantek what a mess
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tantek feel free to add to /Blogger#Criticism - invalid markup injection into templates
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bret it looks machine parsable.... but is it? ;)
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bret KevinMarks_: now you can say you support microdata too ;P
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KevinMarks_ well it is because of the classic microfomrats there -hentry etc
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bret LOL the microdata parser cant parse your blog
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KevinMarks_ this one? http://tools.seomoves.org/microdata/
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bret ya
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KevinMarks_ this one finds… something http://getschema.org/microdataextractor?url=http%3A%2F%2Fepeus.blogspot.com%2F2001%2F11%237053068&out=json
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bret whats a bnode?
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KevinMarks_ rdf creates a graph of connected things, so it has to make up references for them
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KevinMarks_ in theory it de-dupes them
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KevinMarks_ in practice it adds another layer of indirection instead of nesting
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aaronpk is that a "blank node"?
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KevinMarks_ step back from the rathole
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kylewm aaronpk: do you know what content-type you get in pings to monocle?
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kylewm like, is it logged anywhere, by chance?
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aaronpk it might be... let me check
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aaronpk hm no, just the date
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aaronpk i'm not actually using fat pings right now, i'm just treating a ping as a notification that the url is updated, and I go fetch the feed again
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kylewm you may not be getting any content at all unless you are doing the little authentication dance with hub.secret
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk also switchboard doesn't send fat pings
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kylewm I'm very curious about why superfeedr is sending json for known sites, the timezone change to paris is killing me
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aaronpk it was easier to avoid fat pings, made the code on both sides way simpler
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kylewm hehe, yeah i see a bunch of requests from indiewebcamp.com's ip address every time i create a new post
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kylewm assume that's monocle?
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GWG snarfed: Saw your message. Are you using the snarfed friendly CSS files I set up for you?
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snarfed GWG: nah, still the original css i wrote, since they still work ok
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snarfed i think you mentioned doing those for general use, right? hopefully not just for me!
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GWG snarfed: You inspired me.
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GWG snarfed: Besides, SASS generates them for me automatically.
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snarfed cool
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GWG It took me a few minutes to add the extra lines
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GWG I just run the script every time
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GWG snarfed: I am thinking of finally trying to use Bridgy Publish full time.
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GWG Is anyone using it full time?
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snarfed GWG: woo!
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snarfed yeah, gregor, barryf, maybe tantek, a number of others
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GWG I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to ensure it renders as intended each time. No solution I've tried does that.
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GWG I can't figure out consistent Twitter behavior
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GWG What does Bridgy do with posts that are more than 140 characters?