#indieweb 2016-08-17

2016-08-17 UTC
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snarfed
thanks ChrisAldrich! you're very observant, i hadn't actually announced that yet... :P
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snarfed
still need to add publication support. pretty much done though, hoping to launch and announce tonight!~
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ChrisAldrich
I saw the sign written on the wall and thought maybe I had missed something earlier in the week. Now if only Medium would add webmention natively...
rMdes, mblaney and rMdes_ joined the channel
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mblaney
I added blacklisting and whitelisting recently for webmentions, feel like they should be up there with vouch as answers to spam?
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mblaney
simpler to implement, and might even push back the need for anything more complicated (like vouch). but who knows, not a problem you want to wish upon yourself...
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aaronpk
mblaney: if you've got that working then definitely add that as an example!
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mblaney
hey aaronpk, sure did you have a page in mind?
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aaronpk
interesting, the first thing gmail did to fight spam after trying spamassassin out of the box, was to add filters to guess the sending domain of the email!
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aaronpk
reasoning: "domains being harder to obtain and more stable than IPs"
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aaronpk
considers adding all failed pingback domains to a domain blacklist
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miklb
vaguely remembers privately sharing a black list for blocking domains & IPs in .htaccess
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mblaney
nice /spam already mentioned blacklist and whitelists so just added an Indieweb examples section.
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mblaney
actually I might update that to say I check domains only. I feel like we're in a post-IP era :-)
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mblaney
anybody else doing spam prevention? all my domains are so quiet I feel like it was over-engineering, but just trying to be a good netizen.
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snarfed
re domain blacklists, also feel free to check out bridgy's: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/domain_blacklist.txt
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snarfed
it's an optimization for domains to skip webmention discovery that we know don't accept them, not known spammers, but still
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aaronpk
omgomgomg i'm gonna have site search on my site again
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snarfed
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 1097 karma (419 in this channel)
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aaronpk
it's alive!
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aaronpk
still indexing
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aaronpk
i decided to use the same list view when rendering search results, rather than try to create a summary view like google
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snarfed
looks great!
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aaronpk
thanks!
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aaronpk
i want to add all sorts of features to it now, but it's a good first step
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snarfed
is it database backed? elasticsearch? google api?
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aaronpk
elasticsearch!
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aaronpk
indexing complete. 10 minutes isn't too bad to load in all my posts
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mblaney
aaronpk: regarding spam and especially email spam, and after seeing your post about working on gmail, I've always wondered why DKIM hasn't solved the spam problem for email. I mean if DKIM passes and you explicitly mark a post as spam or not spam, surely that rule is good for all email from a domain from then on?
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aaronpk
that seems reasonable
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mblaney
yes I agree, except I use gmail every day and it continues to get both wrong. I don't get it.
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KevinMarks_
Hm, I should add that list to mention.tech and just store the webmention but not try to send it?
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KevinMarks_
That scoble rant on not competing with Facebook is going to look amusing in 10 years
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aaronpk
set a Loqi timer :)
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KevinMarks_
To be fair, Mike is not being as absolute as Robert
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aaronpk
i don't actually know what posts you're talking about
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Robert Scoble - I noticed that a few people keep asking about
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Robert Scoble - I noticed that a few people keep asking about
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KevinMarks_
Hm, I forget the loqi magic words
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KevinMarks_
Mblaney: dkim doesn't help if someone has their mail client hijacked to send spam from their real account
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GWG
davidpeach was back on WP? I'm so thrilled.
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mblaney
KevinMarks: sure I get it's not perfect, but I send mail that has the correct headers and still get marked as spam.
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mblaney
hijacked should get marked as such, hopefully temporarily. dkim is still correct in this case too because it is still coming from the right place.
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mblaney
also I think it's:
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Loqi
I added a countdown scheduled for 2021-08-17 12:04pm AEST (#5901)
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Robert Scoble - I noticed that a few people keep asking about
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Loqi
awesome
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mblaney
no you're awesome Loqi
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aaronpk
2021 seems impossibly far away
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aaronpk
course that's what i said about 2016 in 2011
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mblaney
I'm not sure why we're laughing anyway... that Scoble quote is down right depressing! Here's to trying for the next 5 years anyway! :-D
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aaronpk
speaking of 5 years ago, the first post on my site when I search for "indieweb" is a bookmark of http://avc.com/2011/01/the-independent-web/
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mblaney
to put a positive spin on it, I think we do need to see more indieweb businesses over the next 5 years, progressively aimed at generations 2,3,4.
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mblaney
I can't see advertising working for us, so that means aiming at a value proposition for a service that costs money, but provides something facebook doesn't.
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mblaney
only way through the Scoble dillema.
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aaronpk
woo just fixed my search to support paging!
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aaronpk
this post from the gmail guy is full of gold quotes
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aaronpk
also TIL webmention.io is pretty slow at processing webmentions. not sure when that happened.
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aaronpk
i'm sending webmentions to myself, and they take a while for webmention.io to process
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aaronpk
interesting. this sounds similar to vouch: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/16/27/spam
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] > Another approach would be to allow cross-signing - an entity with good reputation can temporarily countersign mail to give it a reputational boost and trigger cross-propagation of reputations. That entity could employ whatever techniques they liked...
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aaronpk
here's my series of quotes I pulled from that article https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/16/15/spam
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Now reading https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/000780.html to get some ideas for https://indieweb.org/spam > I worked at Google for about 7.5 years. For about 4.5 of those I worked on the Gmail abuse team, which is very tightly l...
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aaronpk
i made a collection post with the quotes because i can now! https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/16/28/spam
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Some select quotes from this fantastic post by someone who used to work on the Gmail anti-spam systems.
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sknebel
huh, that totally does not look like it is intended to be a single post to me
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aaronpk
it's not
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aaronpk
what is a collection?
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Loqi
A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indieweb.org/collection
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sknebel
I guess the "is a type of post" is somewhat a detail that doesn't have to show up in the UI
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sknebel
to me it's not visibly clear that the top post is the context/framing for the others on the page?
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aaronpk
that is true
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sknebel
(that is the collection post, right?)
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aaronpk
well, the collection is all of them, but yeah that piece only exists at that URL
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sknebel
looks to me like a collection of posts, not a post containing a selection of posts
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aaronpk
that's what a collection post is, at least to me
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sknebel
which is functionally not all that important, but caused a mental mismatch initially
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aaronpk
(a collection of posts that is)
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aaronpk
i might just drop that top post actually
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aaronpk
my previous implementation of collections didn't support that
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KevinMarks_
I think it's useful
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KevinMarks_
Links with narration between
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KevinMarks_
Storify is the silo pattern there
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mblaney
AngeloGladding: if you're looking at what people are trying to convey with their h-card, I also have rel=feed in mine. and if you want to go even further I also have indie-actions in there.
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mblaney
sorry wrong channel :-P
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petermolnar
!tell davidpeach re: "decided to move back to wordpress as I was publishing less and tinkering with my site's code too much" - this is why I'm trying to get _away_ from WordPress :)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
Congrats aaronpk and everyone else who worked on Micropub: https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-micropub-20160816/
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Loqi
tantek: GWG left you a message 3 days, 6 hours ago: Having trouble finding people on their profile who mention NYC
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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tantek
!tell GWG also search Twitter for PDF14 indieweb
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[indieweb] " @botwikidotorg about moderation: I have 2 implementations going on, one at @buzzworkers using Wordpress, another at @EUwatchers using wordpress & my own personal using @WithKnown. - on my personal site (here) I have never faced serious Spam. sometimes occasional "paper.li" auto-generated tweets but that's about the most serious I have gotten here. right now Known does not have yet a way to moderate spam, but there is an Akismet plugin for Known installed here just in case webmentions spam is going to take off. - Now on the wordpress indieweb sites I run I have seen more "spam" then Known. first the typical linkback kind of spam but also social media spam and the usual wordpress comments kind of spam. the IndieWeb implementation on Wordpress is good regarding moderation, basically webmentions are like any comments: they can be moderated before publish or can be configured to be automatically displayed. right now to my experience on these WP implementations the biggest vector of Spam is classic wordpress spam, not specifically webmentions spam. " by Rick Mendes on 2016-08-16 https://rmendes.net/2016/botwikidotorg-about-moderation-i-have-2-implementations-going-on-one
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kline
one of the nice things about indieweb is that you own the data, so there are no legal/tos limits to exporting and archiving it all - but is there any sort of standard/common format thats used? having such a format might make it easier to restore your data across multiple versions or even platforms if you want to use other peoples tools to augment your own
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petermolnar
I'm thinking of removing any "code" from my articles, putting them into gists and adding an auto-mirroring of those gists with a shortcode in my articles; this way, I could avoid the constand headache of my fenced code blocks in Markdown. Is anyoned doing anything similar? If yes, any pitfalls?
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kline
petermolnar: pitfalls: github removes your gists
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petermolnar
mirrored locally
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petermolnar
not a problem
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petermolnar
actually, it could be any git repo, not just gist
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petermolnar
it's just simpler with gist
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kline
in that case, as long as your readers can all access github, dont see any reason why not
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kline
(/whatever other host you use)
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petermolnar
oh, not embed
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petermolnar
create the page with the file contents
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petermolnar
I don't do embeds
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petermolnar
so: [gist:whatever] in a post; when the post is published, the gi(s)t repo is cloned locally; when the post is accessed/generated, the shortcode is replaced with the contents of the file from the local clone
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kline
oh, thats kind of neat, sure
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petermolnar
I'm experiencing massive headaches of having code directly in my posts; makes things problematic, like updates to them, versioning, and doing fixes on Markdwon
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kline
yeah, i can understand that
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petermolnar
for example, I wanted to normalize Markdown as _ can only be italics, ** can only be strong; no __ or * is allowed
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kline
the whole reason includes/modules were developed (alongside reusability)
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petermolnar
I ended up messing up numerous code blocks immediately, thanks to /**/ PHP comments
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petermolnar
anyway, this seems to be an OK solution, unless someone points out pitfalls
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petermolnar
and if github goes away, even though I'm paying for it, I'll just use regular git repositories
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sknebel
I'm not sure why you want to use gists and not local files?
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kline
the obvious thing for me is that it means you dont need to jump between different editors/manage uploading files to the hosting server, etc
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petermolnar
this is a valid point
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petermolnar
the reason is that it seemed like a good idea and I haven't though of using local files :D
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kline
doing it all in two tabs might be easier for short snippets than a tab, an editor, and an (s)ftp / ssh terminal connecting to the host
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petermolnar
but, to be honest, the difference is not terrible; I have a local git clone, which I could edit
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gkbrk
the refback approach is going pretty well
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Loqi
gkbrk: sknebel left you a message 4 days, 7 hours ago: you mentioned webmention support for reddit: would you want all comments on reddit to be backfeed to your site? or just a single mention to tell you that there is a discussion on reddit?
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gkbrk
sknebel: I think comments would be more helpful as you can already use reddit.com/domain/whatever.com to find if someone posted a link
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gkbrk
petermolnar: Putting inline code in gists would make your pages heavier and make it harder to update a code piece as you would have to find each gist manually
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petermolnar
gkbrk that is indeed a valid problem
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gkbrk
what problems do you have with embedded code petermolnar?
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petermolnar
I really dislike cross-domain calls; I have no control over the content there
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gkbrk
err, i meant inline code snippets
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petermolnar
the usually evolve; thus updating them inside an article is significantly harder than updating a git repo
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petermolnar
not all, of course
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gkbrk
for small snippets i find it easier to find the relevant markdown file and edit it there, since the url and the filename are the same
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petermolnar
but some "snippets" I add are quite long and I regularly use them elsewhere; so when they get updated, I keep forgetting going back to update the article
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petermolnar
the small ones are not a problem; it's the complete scripts I added inline
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gkbrk
yeah I also use gist for large files since i don't want my pages to be too long
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gkbrk
petermolnar: do you have a static website?
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petermolnar
aiming for it
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gkbrk
maybe you can write some code to take files from a central folder and replace it in the markdown
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gkbrk
like {% code_include "large_snippet.c" %} to read that file and put it in the markdown
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gkbrk
before the whole thing gets parsed
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petermolnar
that is what I'm doing with the gist
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petermolnar
except there are in separate folders this way
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gkbrk
but the advantage of this would be not relying on gist
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gkbrk
if you use gist for code highlighting there's prism.js for client side and pygments for server side highlighting
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petermolnar
I'm not really relying on gist; I'm doing it to be able to use a namespaced, http based git
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petermolnar
and since it's mirrored, even if gist goes away - which I doubt for a long while - I have the content, just as you described
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petermolnar
it's a folder with subfolders
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petermolnar
locally cloned
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petermolnar
a bit complicated, yes, but this way, I can also utilize the existence of the gists
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petermolnar
which is just a potential, 'cause I don't have real plans :D
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petermolnar
it would be easy to switch to a plain include and get rid of the gist dependency
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petermolnar
"dependency"
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gkbrk
i should make something like gist that makes standalone code pages
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petermolnar
but I'm glad for the criticism, it helps deciding and planning, so thank you
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gkbrk
so i can link to them from my pages
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gkbrk
i love it when loqi agrees :P
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petermolnar
the result is like this: https://petermolnar.net/o8tnqh - the code is automatically mirrored locally, git pull --rebase-d on post update and by regular background cron; the gist is linked on the top of the code and the code is auto-included on post generation (which is not static, yet)
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Loqi
[Peter Molnar] motionEyeOS mobile phone presence detection for auto on/off based on network IP or MAC address
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petermolnar
eh, there is one issue with the URL; I need to add a # before the filename for gists
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gkbrk
petermolnar: a local directory, which can also be a git repo, sounds easier
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gkbrk
but if gist is useful to you sure
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gkbrk
but all that checking gists with a cronjob and updating the website sound like too much work for lazy me
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petermolnar
that things is ~8 lines of bash :)
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sknebel
might even be interesting to quote code from repos
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sknebel
if you are writing about pieces of a larger code base
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petermolnar
this is also a neat idea; it's also mirror it locally though
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petermolnar
ok, gists are a little more confusing that I expected
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petermolnar
I might just end up with gkbrk's suggestion of a single local (git)
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aaronpk
continuing reading that email thread...
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aaronpk
some interesting ideas for a method of "friend requesting" someone who was previously unknown https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/000787.html
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aaronpk
could be a way to augment vouch to solve the problem of not being able to talk to someone who isn't already in your social circles
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aaronpk
also it occurs to me that if email newsletters and "transactional" emails are out of the picture, it becomes easier to have fewer false positives when rejecting spam
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aaronpk
the indieweb solution to newsletters or notifications from a system is to have the user explicitly subscribe to that stream, so that the service sending them isn't sending unsolicited messages
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aaronpk
also sadly this thread is completely lacking any discussion about targeted abuse https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/000794.html
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aaronpk
how did this tweet have more than 140 chars in it! https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2184/2444533628_cf6124a757_o.png
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aaronpk
it looks like it doesn't anymore... https://twitter.com/blaine/statuses/381574572
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@blaine
@factoryjoe that would require me fixing OAuth support for Twitter, then advertising that it works. Early next week, as Eran's working o ...
(twitter.com/_/status/381574572)
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kline
earlier I asked if there was any sort of standard/common format for exporting your data from indieweb platform for archival/backup/use with other tools, but i dont think there were any suggestions
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kline
is there such a suggested format?
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aaronpk
kline: the closest thing right now is probably microformats HTML or JSON, since that's the format we use to pass data between sites right now
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aaronpk
also welcome, do you have a website already?
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kline
i do, but it has 0 indieweb features
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kline
might change soon though, and good eye on new nicks
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aaronpk
it's easy to tell from the web IRC logs ;-) https://chat.indieweb.org/
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aaronpk
do you have a link to your twitter or github account on your website already?
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kline
yes, plus keybase
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aaronpk
ah cool! you can try signing in to the wiki then, and add yourself to https://indieweb.org/irc-people
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aaronpk
there's an option for signing in with your GPG key if you don't want to use twitter/github
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kline
thanks
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kline
I'm at work right now, so just getting in the low level stuff like interchange that i can mostly hold in my head, ill look at proper signing up stuff later
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@PHP_CEO
NO IDEA HOW DOG FOOD IS GOING TO MAKE YOU DEVELOPERS MORE LEAN — FRANKLY SOUNDS DISGUSTING — BUT THERE’S 500 POUNDS OF IT IN THE KITCHEN NOW
(twitter.com/_/status/765921782532571136)
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rhiaro
waves at kline
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kline
rhiaro: ssh, im supposed to be keeping a low profile
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kline
rhiaro: when do you come home?
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kline
monday pub is much quieter these days
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rhiaro
kline: -> #indiechat for offtopic
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@chegalabonga
- https://chegalabonga.com/2016/08/17/4036/ Random ##Indieweb question. Are there any tools we could do with that aren't currently ...
(twitter.com/_/status/765941976906797057)
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[stefan]
Just wanted to say hi, see how this Slack integration works. :wave:
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KevinMarks
Hi stefan
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cmal
ahoy :)
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[stefan]
Hi kevinmarks, @cmal!
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cmal
how's it going on your side of the Internet?
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[stefan]
Pretty good, thanks! How's everyone in here?
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cmal
personally, good :)
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[stefan]
tries something
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cmal
so phpunit takes 5.9MB to store via composer, that's CRAZY for projects with just a few hundred lines of code lol
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gkbrk
snarfed1: so if reddit was implemented in bridgy, would it backfeed any comment with our links or would it backfeed all comments to our links' submission?
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snarfed1
gkbrk: good question! probably both? i don't use reddit so i don't really know its semantics.
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singpolyma
gkbrk: I think the proposal was actually for publish of comments, and then backfeed of replies to those comments
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snarfed
happily accepts PRs!
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gkbrk
so it would publish every blog post in your website as a comment on reddit?
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gkbrk
that doesn't sound useful, where would it post the comments?
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aaronpk
no, the other way around. it would let you post comments on reddit by posting a comment on your website
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aaronpk
same way we reply to people on twitter using our websites
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snarfed
gkbrk: bridgy publish is opt in per post, not automatic for all posts
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ChrisAldrich
For a model, I like the fact that I can post issues and replies to issues to Github from my Known site
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ChrisAldrich
Posting issues is a bit hairy looking and needs some additional UI, but otherwise works pretty well. Having the ability to post to Reddit would be fairly similar.
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ChrisAldrich
POSSE to reddit and hackernews can be pretty interesting for increasing one's reach though. What did the final logs for Living in IRC look like in the end, or is the storm not over?
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aaronpk
traffic to that post fell off dramatically once it was off the front page of hackernews
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Hackernews traffic spike finally dying down https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/11/8/photo.png
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gkbrk
aaronpk: I made a small Go program to run through all the server logs and show me refbacks. It filters my website so it doesn't show in the result.
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gkbrk
I haven't received any spam yet but there are a lot of short links
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gkbrk
particularly from twitter, i should probably filter that out
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aaronpk
or you could expand the short links to see what they actually are
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gkbrk
the twitter ones just resolve to the URL of the article they're referring to
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gkbrk
i already found out about some places I was linked from that I would've otherwise missed
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gkbrk
i think ordering them by the number of referred IPs and automatically checking if they link back should give me a meaningful list that I can manually go through
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gkbrk
this should make it easy to list mentions without any spam I hope
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miklb
ChrisAldrich are you doing the github issues through bridgy?
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ChrisAldrich
For the initial issue creation I tend to post natively and PESOS (for better native UX), but replies to Github are all POSSE.
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miklb
ok. But the POSSE is with bridgy or something else?
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ChrisAldrich
I keep meaning to dig into the code and add the additional pieces to make the initial issue creation a bit more streamlined. But I also want to eventually get it working properly for WordPress.
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miklb
hmm. I wonder how they are doing that. silo.pub?
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ChrisAldrich
I don't think bridgy supports github (yet).
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ChrisAldrich
Some of the UI issue in the Known plugin is that issues have titles + body, while comments only have a body.
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aaronpk
hmm my photo posse via silo.pub isn't working
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snarfed
anyone feel like trying out bridgy's medium signup before i announce it?
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ChrisAldrich
snarfed: I'll give it a swing since I jumped the gun. :)
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ChrisAldrich
You changed the button from Green to b/w? hmmm...
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ChrisAldrich
Snarfed: Odd part on Medium's end -- they give me the option to sign up on Bridgy for ALL the sites I'm following (not just those I have access to!)
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snarfed
yeah, the green and gray didn't seem to match well
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snarfed
IANAD (designer) though
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snarfed
ChrisAldrich: yup. medium makes it hard to distinguish following for contributing
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Loqi
[indieweb] "The Indieweb Frees Me From “Awaiting Moderation”" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-08-10 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/the-indieweb-frees-me-from-awaiting-moderation-4699122474a2?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Reply to John Scalzi on “How Blogs Work Today”" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-07-28 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/reply-to-john-scalzi-on-how-blogs-work-today-fb7376ec38c5?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles 8/10/16" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-08-11 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadena-los-angeles-8-10-16-9c8887ba5083?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles 7/27/16" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-07-28 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadena-los-angeles-7-27-16-fceea407c686?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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snarfed
i can find out if i fetch each individual pub from the API separately, but that would add too much latency :/
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snarfed
ahahaha guess it's working
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Loqi
hehe
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ChrisAldrich
thanks Loqi!
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Loqi
you're welcome, ChrisAldrich
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ChrisAldrich
that was quick too! within seconds of the click....
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snarfed
superfeedr++
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Loqi
superfeedr has 5 karma
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snarfed
i should clean the ?source=rss... query params
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ChrisAldrich
That's a LOT of webmentions... though most don't have endpoints.
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snarfed
lots of links!
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ChrisAldrich
One thing I do notice. That particular Medium account is actually a syndication endpoint for my primary site www.boffosocko.com and the webmentions that get sent back to the original all seem to fail. Is this by design since the original posts are there with rel=syndication?
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snarfed
yeah, i saw that too. your site complains that it doesn't find the target links, but they are there. not sure what's up.
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ChrisAldrich
snarfed: I also notice there's no "retry" button for failed webmentions.
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snarfed
huh, true! good feature request
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ChrisAldrich
What else is there to check???
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snarfed
not much. limited medium API means limited bridgy functionality :P
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snarfed
thank you for testing!
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ChrisAldrich
I think I actually view it as a feature that the webmention to the originals failed, but now I'm worried that there's something wrong with my primary site.
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ChrisAldrich
Glad to help! Congrats!
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@jkphl
Holiday time Homebrew Website Clubbing in Nuremberg ❤ #Indieweb https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/765965206115737601/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/765965206115737601)
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ChrisAldrich
Is there a method for disabling webmentions from Medium? Now that I think about it, if more silos support sending webmentions like this, then the hail of mentions from syndicated copies will eventually overwhelm the web. At least until everyone is indiewebified...
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snarfed
ChrisAldrich: oh weird, the disable button is missing
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snarfed
thanks for the catch! will fix.
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ChrisAldrich
I suspect that Medium has the ability to disable through interface on their side too, but I'm not seeing it at the moment.
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ChrisAldrich
Revoking access can also be found at: https://medium.com/me/settings
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snarfed
yup, but that won't actually do anything in this case, since bridgy doesn't need or use the api after initial signup
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ChrisAldrich
It's an issue I've seen before with some automatic indieweb tech where it's easy to set up to use micropub, but there's no easy way to remove access... I'll have to remember the cases where I've seen it and file issues.
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[kevinmarks]
So do I need to link to medium from my homepage, or is a syndication link on the post enough?
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snarfed
[kevinmarks]: neither. this is just outgoing webmentions, not backfeed or publish yet since their API is limited
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Loqi
medium has -1 karma (0 in this channel)
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snarfed
ChrisAldrich: fixed the disable button
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ChrisAldrich
shall I test the disable button or leave it for a while to test anything else in the longer term? Otherwise, posts will have Loqi spamming chat...
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snarfed
not exactly spam, more like dupes
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snarfed
up to you!
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snarfed
you can always re-sign-up to test other things
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ChrisAldrich
anything else I can try to break before exiting?
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snarfed
this has been great, i think we're set
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ChrisAldrich
Congrats snarfed!
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snarfed
thanks!
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ChrisAldrich
Disabling seems to work properly.
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cmal
hey has somebody an article that reads through the corporate propaganda surrounding internet governance changes? I just read some ICANN/IANA functions might be privatized to a non-profit but I find it hard to come by more infos that are analysis and not just PR bullshit
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bear
for those using GitHub Pages, they just made it easier to configure where Pages will pull the site info from -- https://github.com/blog/2228-simpler-github-pages-publishing
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aaronpk
oh that's a nice change
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aaronpk
i'm also a big fan of github's short feature announcement blog posts :)
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voxpelli
very nice :)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Added Medium support to Bridgy. Only outgoing webmentions so far, hopefully more eventually if they add API support. Happy IndieWebing!" by Ryan Barrett on 2016-08-17 https://snarfed.org/2016-08-17_18435
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gkbrk
awesome! no need to copy generated documentation to gh-pages anymore
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "snarfed.org" https://snarfed.org/2016-08-17_18435
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gkbrk
by the way I have an idea for bridgy
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snarfed
gkbrk: shoot!
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gkbrk
bridgy can provide a small javascript include that sends it an ajax request on pageload if there is a referrer.
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gkbrk
then bridgy servers can see if the referer host is in a "trusted" list like reddit or hackernews or whatnot
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gkbrk
if it is, bridgy can send a webmention
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gkbrk
this should allow for much more services faster
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gkbrk
like google analytics with more Freedom™ and IndieWeb™
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@schnarfed
Added @Medium to https://t.co/HIotMvjlxp. Only outgoing webmentions now, hopefully more later if they add API support. Happy #indieweb-ing!
(twitter.com/_/status/765977896506630145)
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gkbrk
of course there would be no analytics
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snarfed
gkbrk: the goal is to add outgoing webmention support to more hosted blog services? or custom blogs?
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gRegorLove
Wouldn't that send a lot of webmentions?
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snarfed
discover a lot, yes. send a lot, no.
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gRegorLove
Like every time someone clicks from A to B, it sends a wm?
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snarfed
gkbrk: it's actually even easier, superfeedr polls feeds for us, so we don't need JS or PuSH at all
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gkbrk
no, it'll only send for a predetermined list of referer hosts
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KevinMarks
Hm, bridgy medium asked me to choose from a huge list of blogs that aren't mine. Maybe ones I replied to?
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snarfed
KevinMarks: discussed earlier. it's everything you follow. medium's API makes it hard to distinguish btw following and contributing
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ChrisAldrich
KevinMarks, hopefully your medium blogs show up at the top -- mine did, so it wasn't too difficult.
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KevinMarks
Ah. Also it says it's sending webmentions to cloudfront images
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Repost of Ryan Barrett's tweet" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-17 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/repost-of-ryan-barretts-tweet-c365d29e49
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aaronpk
hm i just realized my indieweb posts don't usually get picked up by superfeedr here. i wonder what i need to do to fix that
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gkbrk
snarfed: I was thinking of places without APIs or RSS feeds. The other day I got a refback from a gitter chatroom and a random reddit comment
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gkbrk
this allowed me to reply to them/check them out
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aaronpk
gkbrk: you could build that JS yourself to prototype it right?
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snarfed
KevinMarks: it'll skip the images once it gets to them :P
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aaronpk
i don't think it needs to be built by bridgy
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gkbrk
aaronpk: yeah, along with a custom server/script
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snarfed
gkbrk: agreed for those cases. sounds fun though!
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gkbrk
but bridgy support might make it more useful until more websites provide built-in support or APIs
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snarfed
you don't even need server support at all, you can do the entire thing in JS if you want, since the wm goes to the same host that serves it
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aaronpk
i don't think you even need a custom server script if the webmention endpoint is on the same domain as your page
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snarfed
jinx :P
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aaronpk
and if the webmention endpoint is on a different domain, just ask them to add the appropriate CORS headers
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snarfed
although the server needs to include the referer header in the page so the JS can see it
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gkbrk
javascript can access referer iirc
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snarfed
huh really?! i don't see how, but ok
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aaronpk
yeah that's how google analytics gets it
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gkbrk
but you don't even need webmentions if its on the same domain, you can directly add it to your database
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aaronpk
i used to build little tracking scripts like that for my site ages ago
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voxpelli
snarfed: "document.referrer" ;)
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snarfed
voxpelli++ lol
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Loqi
voxpelli has 90 karma (83 in this channel)
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snarfed
really really isn't a web developer
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gkbrk
i was about to type that :P
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gkbrk
missed the glorious internet points
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voxpelli
has Dash.app on a global keyboard shortcut :P
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snarfed
Dash++
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Loqi
dash has 4 karma (1 in this channel)
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gkbrk
someone thought about edge cases
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KevinMarks
Ah, right the images have vanished from the list now
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KevinMarks
Hm. The wm shows up as unknown on this post
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Loqi
Instant BCC 2016-04-22
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KevinMarks
So medium needs more mf2
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snarfed
KevinMarks: s/more/any/ :P
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[kevinmarks]
As the Mad Hatter said to Alice "you couldn't really have less"
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[kevinmarks]
Corrected, March hare
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voxpelli
should add non-mf2 fallback to the endpoint :P
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KevinMarks
I'm on TWiG today, send me things to talk about
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GWG
KevinMarks, Indiewebcamp NYC 2
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Loqi
GWG: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 44 minutes ago: also search Twitter for PDF14 indieweb
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GWG
Use the new URL?
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GWG
Space is limited, registration is free.
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GWG
Maybe Jarvis's dotnyc show can cover it.
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@kloptbaze
OSB 2015 - #Micropub: The Emerging #API Standard for IndieWeb Apps - Aaron... https://www.youtube.com/ via @indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/766002697703133184)
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gkbrk
where is Loqi getting the blog posts?
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voxpelli
gkbrk: Superfeedr
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gkbrk
so is there a list of rss feeds?
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aaronpk
not exactly
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aaronpk
the list is "every blog that superfeedr indexes"
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snarfed
superfeedr++
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Loqi
superfeedr has 6 karma
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snarfed
can't do that enough
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voxpelli
superfeedr++
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Loqi
superfeedr has 7 karma
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voxpelli
agree :)
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gkbrk
i see
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gkbrk
so you guys pay 2 dollars for access to the feeds
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voxpelli
(Superfeedr supports non-RSS feeds as well btw, like mf2 pages)
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gkbrk
and it only notifies you when there's for example indieweb in the contents or the title?
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gRegorLove
The tweets are from searching terms: indieweb, webmention
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voxpelli
"you guys" as in aaronpk does, he is Loqi's father :)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Liked this tweet: https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/765977896506630145 Ryan Barrett on Twitter: “Added @Medium to https://t.co/HIotMvjlxp. Only outgoing webmentions now, hopefully more later if they add API support. Happy #indieweb-ing!”" by Scott Kingery on 2016-08-17 http://techlifeweb.com/14854-2/
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gkbrk
But doesn't that somehow contribute to the centralization of the web? superfeedr could for whatever reason decide to pull the feeds under your feet
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gkbrk
or charge you 10x
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aaronpk
yeah then i go somewhere else
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gkbrk
i'm not talking about the bot, just any service using it in general
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aaronpk
it's not centralized, it's a service
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AngeloGladding
i have a related inquiry
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AngeloGladding
i was just reading up on PuSH
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AngeloGladding
and superfeedr is currently the hub to PuSH to
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AngeloGladding
i was hoping PuSH would allow me to *request* PuSHes but it seems the author of the site must explicitly declare my site as a PuSH hub
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AngeloGladding
in other words it kind of expects such a "centralized" hub
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aaronpk
not exactly
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aaronpk
your site declares the hub you publish to
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AngeloGladding
for some reason it just hit me
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AngeloGladding
you can have a long list of hubs
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AngeloGladding
if you wanted to fully decentralize it
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AngeloGladding
like if these indiewebers wanted to stay connected: https://angelo.lahacker.net/people
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AngeloGladding
they'd each have to list all twenty as PuSH hubs in order to stay apprised of #IndieWeb mentions
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gkbrk
aaronpk: but they can censor whatever articles they don't like and allow the ones they like, right?
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aaronpk
no that's not how it works
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aaronpk
i publish stuff on my site, my site indicates where i publish PuSH updates to
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aaronpk
so if you want to subscribe to my realtime feed, you can subscribe to my hub that you discover by looking at my web page
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aaronpk
when you subscribe via PuSH, you tell the hub which URL you want to receive the updates at
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aaronpk
gkbrk: sure, and if that ever becomes a problem then i will just not use them anymore.
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gkbrk
but how would you even notice it?
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AngeloGladding
you use your own "switchboard"
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AngeloGladding
sorry, that was directed at aaron
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gkbrk
unless it happens to your post or someone reports it, you wouldn't know
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aaronpk
gkbrk: that's not really the point
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aaronpk
using superfeedr's tracker right now is way easier than me building out crawling and indexing infrastructure. even if I were do build that out, I would likely not do as good of a job as superfeedr, so i'm happy to use them.
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AngeloGladding
their job has been dramatically simplified through receiving notifications
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AngeloGladding
the hub's that is
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aaronpk
AngeloGladding: yeah i built my own PuSH hub because I wanted to see how hard it was, and also to own more of my site's infrastructure
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aaronpk
superfeedr does like 10 things so it's kind of confusing. they do have a system that proactively crawls and indexes feeds in addition to being a PuSH hub.
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AngeloGladding
so that brings us back to my earlier point.. when we all have our own PuSH hubs our <head>s will be packed with rels
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aaronpk
you only need to link to the one push hub you publish to
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AngeloGladding
and there's a standard method of consumption?
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aaronpk
have you read up on the PuSH spec?
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AngeloGladding
i think you've cleared it up
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AngeloGladding
i had just pulled up the page when i saw chatter about it here
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AngeloGladding
wasn't sure if it was the right tool for the job -- now i see that it probably is
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gkbrk
so does the PuSH hubs take you off their list if they receive too many errors from your server
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gkbrk
or is this up to the implementations
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aaronpk
a lot of those details are up to the implementation
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aaronpk
also it's not really a "they" in the case of you publishing to your hub, since it's a hub that you choose and might actually be built in to your website. wordpress has a built-in hub for example.
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gkbrk
i mean the subscribers
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AngeloGladding
the wp indieweb plug-in?
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aaronpk
wp core i think? might be a different plugin? can't remember
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aaronpk
gkbrk: "Hubs SHOULD retry notifications repeatedly until successful (up to some reasonable maximum over a reasonable time period)."
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aaronpk
so it's up to the implementation
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aaronpk
also normally the lifetime of the subscription is relatively short, like a day or a week, so subscribers have to continually re-subscribe anyway, which helps with dropping failed subscribers
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bear
hey all - if your a gnupg or libgcrypt user ... https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-6313
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bear
on OS X you can use: `brew update && brew upgrade`
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gkbrk
aaronpk: oh the re-subscribe thing is pretty good then
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gkbrk
UDP services generally use a similar method, you send a packet and receive responses and updates for a limited amount of time
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gkbrk
so you keep sending packets to keep 'em coming
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snarfed
bear++ is our own personal http://requires.io/
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Loqi
bear has 159 karma (126 in this channel)
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gRegorLove
Wordpress.com blogs have PuSH though
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plindner
Greets indieweb folks. I am with you now. Set up hosted Known today. Learning and listening so I can help. I'm on http://1500wordMTU.com/
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gRegorLove
Welcome, plindner!
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plindner
Hi Kevin - finally made it over here. Fun times ahead.
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AngeloGladding
hi Paul, welcome
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AngeloGladding
kevinmarks i reached out to kylewm regarding the `mf2util` issue
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AngeloGladding
ran into another late last night with the same issue
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@miklb
@AaronGustafson I’m in #indieweb-dev IRC, I’ll ask :-)
(twitter.com/_/status/766032617925910529)
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@sailorlion
If you ever wondered what has happened to some of the popular sites. This site can be quite sad to visit though.... https://indieweb.org/site-deaths
(twitter.com/_/status/766036208203993090)
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KevinMarks
Micropub.rocks and silo.pub plugged
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KevinMarks
Hm, the combination of pale blue link text on white and font weight 200 makes bridgy hard to read on android
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snarfed1
thanks for the feedback KevinMarks! you know how to pick good colors, right? i'd happily merge a PR! :P
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KevinMarks
I think it's that on android you get roboto which actually has a 200 weight
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KevinMarks
But the blue is a bit light as well
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snarfed1
fwiw i use it on android a lot and i'm ok with the contrast, but i'm probably not sensitive enough or visually impaired
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KevinMarks
I am in daylight at the moment too
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KevinMarks
That blue on white is a 3.6 wcag
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snarfed1
i don't know what that means :P
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snarfed1
(i'm guessing contrast measurement)
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bear
what is wcag
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "wcag" yet. Would you like to create it?
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bear
what is WCAG
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "WCAG" yet. Would you like to create it?
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bear
WCAG is Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, see https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/
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bear
wcag >> WCAG
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bear
WCAG << wcag
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Loqi
ok, I added "wcag" to the "See Also" section of /WCAG
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KevinMarks1
WCAG is Web Content Accessibility Guidelines - a series of recommendations for making web sites more usable,
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KevinMarks1
ah
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snarfed1
thanks! there's no section 3.6 though.
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snarfed1
gotta run, bbi15
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Loqi
ok, I added "http://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/" to the "See Also" section of /WCAG
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KevinMarks1
3.6 is the contrast ratio for that blue on white, which is exacerbated by the thin font
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aaronpk
is 3.6 good or bad? i can't really tell
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KevinMarks1
bad - it fails for enything except very bold type
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KevinMarks1
7 is recommended minimum
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KevinMarks1
21 is the actual maximum
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aaronpk
it would be helpful if that site showed the scale and recommendations
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aaronpk
i also don't know what "passes AA" means
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KevinMarks1
AA means OK for normal vision; AAA for poor vision
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aaronpk
where are you finding these definitions?
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bear
how do I get loqi to do a redirect from wcag to WCAG ?
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aaronpk
you can't from IRC, cause search is case insensitive
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bear
oh the << is a see-also thing only then - gotcha
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Loqi
There was an error: Array
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aaronpk
ha oops
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KevinMarks1
these standards were written before the trend for super-thin type took off
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KevinMarks1
I'd add another 1.5 multiplier for that
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KevinMarks1
I did a comparison grid https://kevinmarks.github.io/textweights.html
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KevinMarks1
the otehr thing is that my screen has really small pixels so can accurately show the hairline type, which makes it even less visible
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gRegorLove
KevinMarks1: What's your recommendation for svg image fallback? I'm working on replacing my logo with svg.
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gRegorLove
Also how does an <img> link to the svg compare to the <svg> element directly?
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: if you put svg in directly you can use its elements as DOM nodes. e.g. apply styles from your global css etc...
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aaronpk
and saves an http request
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KartikPrabhu
it will be cached anyway so the request won't be that much of a problem
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KevinMarks
Fallback is only for ie8, so either don't worry or use special irc workaround
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gRegorLove
irc workaround?
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KevinMarks
s/irc/ie8/
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gRegorLove
Ah, gotcha
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gRegorLove
Thanks, good to know.
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KartikPrabhu
i use modernizr to detect svg support. and use fallback images if not