#indieweb 2017-05-20

2017-05-20 UTC
benwerd, benwerd_, snarfed, tantek, snarfed1, wolftune and gRegorLove joined the channel
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gRegorLove Good evening, indieweb
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gRegorLove I saw discussion about lodging for IWS. I'm open to sharing an AirBNB if anyone's interested.
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gRegorLove schmarty: What's the name of the hostel you're staying at?
strugee, leg, jjuran, pl_ and gucci_meow joined the channel
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gRegorLove IWS travel booked!
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gRegorLove Still considering lodging. There's an AirBNB room near downtown with 2 beds, $124/night at the moment if anyone's interested.
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gRegorLove https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/17161133
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GWG I still prefer hotels
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gRegorLove GWG: That's fair. Are you definitely coming, or still researching?
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GWG I got approval, so I will likely book it
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GWG I had to wait
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GWG I enjoyed last year, except the heat
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gRegorLove Yeah, here's hoping it's not as hot this year.
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GWG I told aaronpk to work on it
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gRegorLove Hehe
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jjuran gRegorLove: I just booked a room at the same hostel.
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jjuran This says "Private Room Sleeps 3" for $94 per night. My private room costs more than that somehow…
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gRegorLove Prices vary based on the schedule
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gRegorLove That's just the base price
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jjuran Also, I'm going to be there the whole week, including Open Source Bridge.
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gRegorLove Cool. I'm looking at 22nd through 25th. Looks like that place isn't available evening of the 25th unfortunately.
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jjuran Not anymore. :-P
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jjuran Actually, I have no idea how their AirBnB listing interacts with other bookings.
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gRegorLove Ended up booking a studio since it seemed like the next best deal and matched the dates I wanted.
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GWG Wonder if it is worth staying 20 minutes away by train.
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GWG To save 50% on the room rate
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dougbeal All on the same line?
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miklb I would
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GWG I need a Portland person, I think, to give me an opinion.
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gRegorLove I stayed about that far away my second year. I was pleased with public transportation.
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GWG Some place called the University Place Hotel
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GWG And I like public transport
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dougbeal GWG: it looks good to me, you can take MAX or a bus
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Just set up my first instance of Known on NearlyFreeSpeech! Time to write up a guide for https://withknown.com #IndieWeb" by Chris Bolas on 2017-05-19 https://www.chrisbolas.com/2017/just-set-up-my-first-instance-of-known-on-nearlyfreespeech
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GWG And they throw in breakfast. Not that hotel breakfasts are so great.
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gRegorLove Hampton Inn has a reliably good breakfast
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gRegorLove But they're usually a bit pricier
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[cleverdevil] PDX trains are pretty solid. Save the money!
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GWG I like Hampton Inns too
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GWG [cleverdevil]: Any recommendations?
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schmarty gRegorLove: The Society Hotel
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schmarty sorry for missing the earlier conversation. i was at the Baltimore Podcast Festival teching and 'casting.
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GWG schmarty: Shared bathroom?
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schmarty i booked in the very hostel-like part of The Society Hotel. so, a shared room (private bunks) with multiple communal bathrooms.
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schmarty it is definitely outside my usual but it is affordable and super close to the venue and fondly reminds me of my startup days in 2011 :}
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gRegorLove Ooh, podcast festival sounds fun
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GWG I'd rather spend the same amount, but stay a bit farther afield and get a bathroom.
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schmarty it was! a bunch of local baltimore podcasts brought together in a big 4 hour block of live shows. there's more tomorrow but the venue tonight was where my improv group plays and i volunteered my recording equipment.
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GWG schmarty: Sounds fun
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schmarty sounds like folks are already locking places down. i'd be up for sharing an AirBNB out along the rails to make things more private + affordable but I don't know the area enough to trust myself with the planning.
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schmarty so i will probably stick with my hostel booking :}
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GWG schmarty: If I come, I could opt for a double room.
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GWG gRegorLove can vouch for my acceptability as a roommate
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gRegorLove There's a couch in the studio AirBNB I reserved if anyone wants :)
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GWG I can't handle a couch.
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gRegorLove Also can cancel up to 24 hours beforehand if something better comes along.
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dougbeal I'm intrested in an AirBnB as well... when are people arriving/leaving? I will take the train from Seattle, so Thursday to Monday
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schmarty hmm. i guess my decision would ride on how far of a ride out of downtown vs price. more time with indieweb people is a bonus. difficulty: the downtown hostel is so affordable
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gRegorLove dougbeal: I'm arriving Thursday late evening, returning Monday afternoon, so 4 nights
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GWG My estimate is 20 minutes ride from the venue
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schmarty dougbeal: pretty much same itinerary as gRegorLove
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GWG But my intention is to come down...stay there all day, and return to the hotel at night only
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jjuran schmarty: Hi!
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schmarty jjuran: hello!
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jjuran I'm seriously considering taking the train back to DC instead of flying.
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schmarty jjuran: another HWC Baltimore coming up May 31st if you're around :}
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schmarty haha, from portland??
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jjuran yup
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Loqi ahahahaha
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GWG jjuran: Sounds like fun
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schmarty that sounds like a fun adventure
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jjuran $232, 65 hours
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schmarty an affordable adventure!
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jjuran It's not just price. I can't really work with arriving at DCA right before Metro stops running.
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schmarty i will be coming off of a week of travel before IWS but otherwise that is tempting, haha
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jjuran A couple years ago, some friends and I took the Coast Starlight from Oakland to Seattle on our way to LinuxFest Northwest. It was fun!
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dougbeal This is the point where I wish I could just search for AirBnBs along transit
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gRegorLove Have you taken that train ride before? I was just recently reading up on taking some Amtrack rides. Was warned against the long trips without a sleeper upgrade :)
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jjuran Well, Oakland to Seattle was 23 hours, so I'm familiar with sleeping in the seat.
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gRegorLove I'm thinking about taking it down to San Diego and back
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dougbeal I did Philly to Indianapolis at 16 hours, and the daylight hours were fine, but then it ground on, and the train would stop pretty often and shuffle pople on and off.
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schmarty I've done a sleeper car ride from Redding, CA to Seattle and I can say: the sleeping space is not a huge improvement over the chairs.
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schmarty (that is to say, i did the much more affordable bunk-style sleeper)
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jjuran schmarty: I spontaneously checked the date of the next HWC just as I was missing the last one. :-/
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jjuran So yeah, I'd love to come by on May 31.
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schmarty jjuran: no worries. we've been moving the Baltimore HWC around to accommodate other events at the venue. we're getting close to being bi-weekly, which is fun!
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schmarty looking forward to seeing you at the May 31 meeting!
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jjuran My sites are all HTTPS now. :-)
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schmarty i'm hoping to get some wisdom and inspiration from IWS to plan an IndieWebCamp Baltimore(/Washington D.C.??)
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schmarty nice! ❤️ HTTPS
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dougbeal Nothing really jumping out at me on AirBnB, I will take up the search again tomarrow.
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dougbeal Here is google maps with MAX overlay: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1x-mwfcVuW219g5azCfbjS8onJDc&hl=en&usp=sharing
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miklb peaks in wishing FL wasn't so far away from PDX
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GWG Buying my ticket to PDX now
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@ScalaWilliam OOOH I like this! https://brid.gy/ #indieweb https://twitter.com/ScalaWilliam/status/865799977053822976/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865799977053822976)
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GWG Hotel reserved. Extra bed if someone wants to split.
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aaronpk Good morning!
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GWG aaronpk: Good morning. Just bought a ticket to Portland
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GWG Do you know anything about the University Place Hotel?
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aaronpk I haven't heard of it before
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GWG It is apparently run by Portland State University
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aaronpk Ah nice, looks like it's right on a Max stop too
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GWG Yes
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GWG It's safe to travel Max at night, isn't it?
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aaronpk Yeah especially just downtown that short distance
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GWG Excited about IWC today?
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aaronpk ive taken the last max from the airport home at like midnight before. I'm going to do that on Monday night when I come home too
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aaronpk Yes, looking forward to it! Curious to see what sessions we'll end up with today!
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GWG You doing video?
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aaronpk Yep!
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gRegorLove miklb: Definitely seems to be several people interested in FL based on /Planning, maybe we should make it happen this year
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jjuran My lodging and travel are booked. Now I just have to finish my OSB talk. :-)
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miklb gRegorLove I haven't looked at that page in a little while
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gRegorLove What's your talk, jjuran?
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jjuran http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/2077
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Loqi Josh Juran
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jjuran :-/
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jjuran "How to Build a Portable, Eco-Friendly, Interactive 2D Graphics Demo out of Spare Parts"
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gRegorLove Cool!
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jjuran Rumor has it there will be Mac emulation and animated kittens.
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GWG I just want to do something this weekend.
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GWG Accomplish one of my tasks.
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miklb for ownyourswarm to work with simple location WP plugin, do I want json or simple form encoded?
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GWG It shouldn't matter, but I have to look more closel
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GWG Micropub converts location to WordPress standards, so it should work
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miklb OK. I'm sure you've gotten this question before, but there isn't a checkin kind. is that a reserved kind that just needs to be added?
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GWG miklb: Yes. It is just something I haven't built, because I had to build location first
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miklb understood
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GWG Simple Location is set to get venue support at some point
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miklb hmm. didn't seem to pass the location data, at least set as json format. I'll keep playing around with it.
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GWG https://ownyourswarm.p3k.io/docs
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GWG Simple Location doesn't support a name and url as a location.
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GWG According to this, it doesn't pass a location property.
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miklb well, lat & long
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GWG aaronpk: When you return...the docs page for own your swarm doesn't show an example of a checkin property.
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aaronpk Ah I do need to update the docs for the simple OYS request
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tanlaan Has anyone played around with the twitter plugin for Known? Apparently my API key and secret aren't doing it to post. I got Facebook to post just fine
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GWG miklb: If we update Micropub to support saving those properties, then I can make Simple Location display it.
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miklb ah
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GWG Simple Location uses WordPress Geodata format, which would be geo_latitude, etc in the meta. So anything that saves to that, including the WordPress mobile apps, will be displayed
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miklb gotcha. Thanks for explaining
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@krautsource Freue mich auf @IndieWebCampDE heute in Nürnberg! (twitter.com/_/status/865822982710726657)
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asuh Can I ask a question about the WordPress documentation found here? https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress#Self-hosted_WordPress
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GWG asuh: Ask away
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GWG You have two WordPress users here
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asuh This section explains that as long as you've installed the IndieWeb plugin, you should be able to go to the Profile section and add your social profiles which will then show in new link elements in the header of the site. I'm not able to make this work.
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miklb header or <head>
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GWG asuh: Go to the Options tab under Indieweb and set which author is the current one.
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asuh Yes, I looked there and it is correct since there's only one profile user
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asuh I believe "header" should say "<head>"
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miklb yes, I just updated that, thanks!
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GWG asuh: And the links aren't there?
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asuh miklb, awesome, thanks clearer
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asuh GWG, that's correct. Nothing changes
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asuh I was not able to see any link elements from the various social profiles I added to the profile section.
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miklb asuh what theme are you using?
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asuh TwentySeventeen
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GWG asuh: Test, just to see if it works, adding the rel-me widget as an alternative.
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asuh But I tried it on another site just to see if I was doing something wrong and it was the same result
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asuh I did try that out and nothing showed up
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GWG Odd. I'm using it on a site and it is definitely working.
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GWG asuh: Can you open up an issue about this?
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues
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GWG I think I found the problem
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asuh I hesitate to open an issue because there must be something i'm missing!
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@jkphl Some serious @indiewebcamp'ing commencing @tollwerk #nueww https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/865826435444944898/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865826435444944898)
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@calum_ryan Pre #IndieWebCamp Nuremburg discussion + breakfast with @Sebsel (twitter.com/_/status/865826471012691968)
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GWG asuh: The bug was fixed, but no one updated the wordpress.org version.
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GWG WordPress.org shows Version 3.0.5. The current version shows as 3.0.7 in the repository on Github.
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GWG This is our mistake.
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asuh ah, let me go try that out and i'll report back
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GWG It takes two people to merge fixes into the Indieweb plugin
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GWG One to submit, one to approve
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asuh oh i see. ok so it's not on the repo yet
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GWG asuh: It is in the repo, just not in wordpress.org
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GWG Since I just noticed that, I'll try to update and arrange for a stable release to address.
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asuh i don't see it in the repo: https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb
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Loqi [indieweb] wordpress-indieweb: Helps you establish your IndieWeb identity by extending the user profile to provide rel-me and h-card fields. It also includes a bundled installer for a core set of IndieWeb-related plugins.
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asuh maybe i'm looking in the wrong place?
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GWG Don't see what?
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GWG IF you download the master branch
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miklb 3.0.6 is what is showing
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GWG I'll start working on a formal release for 3.0.7
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GWG 3.0.6 has the single author fix
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GWG 3.0.7 removed some plugins.
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GWG So, no issue there
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asuh 3.0.7 is not live in the repo?
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GWG asuh: The version numbers just need to be changed.
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GWG I'm going to do that now before I go to bed and then await approval.
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GWG miklb: You want to be involved in the approval process? Right now, it is just pfefferle and myself.
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asuh ok, so if i download the Github repo version and manually overwrite in /plugins, then i should be updated
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GWG asuh: Yes
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GWG And I'll work on a stable version, because I doubt you are the only one affected
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miklb GWG if pfefferle is good with adding another person to that repo, I'd be happy to be a third pair of hands to help with repo maintenance
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GWG miklb: It is an Indieweb organizational repo, not a pfefferle one.
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miklb ah, right. then yes
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asuh BTW, I noticed that the additional 8-10 plugins recommended to install, several of them are directly on Github. Would it make sense to have them controlled using Github Updater? https://github.com/afragen/github-updater
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Loqi [afragen] github-updater: This WP plugin will update GitHub, Bitbucket, and GitLab hosted plugins and themes
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GWG asuh: We are removing Github plugins from future versions to make it more user friendly and sticking to only .org ones.
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GWG aaronpk: Would you be able to invite miklb to the Indieweb org on Github?
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GWG I don't think I have invite privileges
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[colinwalker] Morning.
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[colinwalker] miklb Thanks for the clarification on comment types. Just FYI, I'm currently getting "cannot decide raw data" when trying to view your site (Safari, iOS)
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asuh ok, that'll be good. something to be aware of is that when you clone directly from Github into the plugins folder, all those plugins are prepended with "wordpress-" whereas if you pull them from the WordPress.org repo, they do not include that prepend
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Loqi *yawn*
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asuh To be very clear on what I just wrote, when I initially installed the IndieWeb WordPress plugin, I went through the Dashboard area where you can install the plugins from within the Dashboard and the folder name was simply "indieweb" but when I just cloned directly from Github it suddenly became "wordpress-indieweb"
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asuh I imagine for any legacy users like me where the installer cloned the repos from github, simply changing it over to WordPress repo might cause issues because of the prepending "wordpress-" on all the plugin folder names
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miklb [colinwalker] thanks! I have been trying to test out wp-super-cache, must be something I'm missing there
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miklb I disabled it for the time being
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[colinwalker] Cool
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asuh GWG: after cloning the plugin from the repo and activating, I'm still not seeing any new link elements in the <head>
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asuh The alternative method of adding the rel="me" widget makes it show up there. But there's no <link> for rel="me" in the <head> by default as is written in the WordPress doc I linked to above
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[jeremycherfas] Starting IWC with an almost clean slate. https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F5FSU6PEW/image_uploaded_from_ios.jpg?pub_secret=aa7a95686d&name=Image uploaded from iOS.jpg
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GWG If the widget is enabled, the head links should not show and vice versa.
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aaronpk good morning! the livestream will begin shortly!
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GWG But you've inspired me to make another pass at the plugin and see if I can release a new version.
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GWG aaronpk: I should go to bed, to be honest.
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aaronpk the current video will always be viewable at https://indieweb.org/live
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asuh GWG: that's what I assumed. But I didn't see the <link> element either way
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GWG asuh: I'll look into it either way.
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asuh cool
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asuh thanks for your attention!
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GWG asuh: We're due for a new version.
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GWG May even implement miklb's suggestion of a nicer plugin installer
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asuh I'm new to all of this so maybe I'll see what I can contribute on Github
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asuh although I'm a front-end dev so i'll be more limited
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@jkphl #IndieWebCamp Nuremberg 2017 about to kick off in a few minutes! #nueww https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/865839422381707264/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865839422381707264)
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pantal [youtube] new Indiewebcamp stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcHykrp56So
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sl007 pantal++
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Loqi pantal has 1 karma
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sknebel pantal++
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Loqi pantal has 2 karma
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sknebel (is it cheating if I karma my own bot?)
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[colinwalker] Looks like I've sorted how to re-add the webmention comment_type if it is a reply ?
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[jeremycherfas] Good work
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[colinwalker] Thanks and good morning
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[jeremycherfas] Good morning to you.
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@saltygrave15 Here are the final pages of The Hardcore & the Free. #webcomic #comicbook #webtoon #punkrock #indieweb #indiemusic https://twitter.com/saltygrave15/status/865843154301407232/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865843154301407232)
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@adactio Getting ready to kick off Indie Web Camp Nuremberg. https://indieweb.org/live https://twitter.com/adactio/status/865843161830182913/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865843161830182913)
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@kevinmarks @lynncyrin @indiewebcamp Not sure - a lot of #indieweb people are in Nürnberg this weekend. Do come to the indieweb… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/865843438880776194 (twitter.com/_/status/865843438880776194)
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@jkphl .@adactio and @aaronpk kicking-off the @indiewebcamp Nuremberg 2017 @tollwerk #nueww https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/865844860774993921/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865844860774993921)
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[kevinmarks] this feels like I'm watching you wiht a surveillance camera
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gRegorLove o/ IWC
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@sl007 Ich mag das @YouTube-Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcHykrp56So&feature=youtu.be&a= Introductions - IndieWebCamp Nürnberg 2017 (twitter.com/_/status/865846406552080384)
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[colinwalker] Looking good guys
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gRegorLove Haha "really criminal looking tk domains"
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Loqi hehe
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@calum_ryan #IndieWebCamp Nuremberg intros getting underway https://twitter.com/calum_ryan/status/865848715084484609/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865848715084484609)
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gRegorLove Whoa, never knew cweiske's site color was based on the time / weather
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@jkphl You can find the @indiewebcamp live stream at http://nueww.de/live-stream/ or https://indieweb.org/live in case you're interested #nueww (twitter.com/_/status/865850243199508481)
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aaronpk https://sebastiangreger.net
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@xandruCea Websites Introductions - IndieWebCamp Nürnberg 2017 #live #IndieDev #WebDev #nueww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcHykrp56So&feature=youtu.be via @YouTube (twitter.com/_/status/865851718537445376)
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@jkphl #IndieWebCamp intros w/ ppl from Germany, Netherlands, UK, Italy, US, Malaysia / Argentina! http://nueww.de/live-stream/… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/865852603963408384 (twitter.com/_/status/865852603963408384)
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aaronpk Next up: Leo from Malaysia
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gRegorLove aaronpk: What's the URL of that wordpress-social-site thing?
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[kevinmarks] Getpop.org
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb! Good morning Nürnberg!
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aaronpk Next up: Jan
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aaronpk jansauer.de
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aaronpk next: Dominic
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aaronpk dominic.grzbielok.de
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aaronpk Julie
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aaronpk julieannenoying.com
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aaronpk Alex
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aaronpk alex-cio.de
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aaronpk Joschi jkphl.is
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aaronpk Sebastian
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aaronpk maker.sfeld.eu
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gRegorLove (the original Sebastian)
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aaronpk Calum up next
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aaronpk calumryan.com
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@sl007 @aaronpk awesome https://maker.sfeld.eu/fablab/indieweb/2016/06/22/wie-man-ein-beleuchtetes-logo-baut.html (twitter.com/_/status/865859405199400960)
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aaronpk Sebastiaan seblog.nl
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@Sebsel I'm at #IndieWebCamp Nuremberg! Demoing Micropub :) (twitter.com/_/status/865860618661892096)
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aaronpk Markus
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aaronpk no website yet, but has a domain
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aaronpk Tobi
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aaronpk platzverbot.de
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aaronpk tbaader.de
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aaronpk Sven svenknebel.de
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aaronpk Martin
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aaronpk martin.haseneyer.se
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aaronpk and http://martin.haseneyer.de
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Loqi Martin Haseneyer
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Zegnat Ooh, I like Sebastian’s maker.sfeld.eu’s footer text :D
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Zegnat is trying to catch-up
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aaronpk oh thanks Loqi
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aaronpk Jeremy Cherfas
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aaronpk https://www.jeremycherfas.net
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Loqi Jeremy Cherfas
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gRegorLove Hey, Nucleus!
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gRegorLove ran Nucleus for a long time
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aaronpk Oliver
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aaronpk http://walterebert.com
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Loqi Walter Ebert
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[kevinmarks] did you finish? live stream is showing a spinny thing
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gRegorLove Yeah, session scheduling now then lunch
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gRegorLove sessions start at 1:30
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Zegnat Dominic has documented his pen & paper tools, nice! http://dominic.grzbielok.de/meine-tools/
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@jkphl #Barcamp like session scheduling at @indiewebcamp Nuremberg 2017 #nueww https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/865867689805434880/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865867689805434880)
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@ambrwlsn90 @jkphl @indiewebcamp @calum_ryan @jansauer @sfeldeu @aaronpk @xandruCea @Sebsel My face every time ? (twitter.com/_/status/865867930252324866)
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@jkphl @ambrwlsn90 @indiewebcamp @calum_ryan @jansauer @sfeldeu @aaronpk @xandruCea @Sebsel Nothing bad about that, is it?! ;) (twitter.com/_/status/865870107762929664)
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pantal [youtube] new Indiewebcamp stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2JpEpiGU0A
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Zegnat aaronpk: is there a schedule that needs to go up on the wiki?
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sebsel sknebel is sending photo's, Zegnat :)
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Zegnat Wanting to make myself useful because I feel like I am missing out ;)
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@calum_ryan Discussing Homebrew Website Clubs promotion with fellow Europe-wide organisers #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/865879171200946177)
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Zegnat I hope someone is going to do a write up about HWC promotion!
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sebsel https://etherpad.indieweb.org/hwc :)
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@Lansyn Auf dem #nueww #tollwerk #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/Lansyn/status/865881614735335424/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865881614735335424)
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Zegnat Nice!
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sebsel Here's the schedule, Zegnat https://seblog.nl/temp/media-endpoint/2567b1-iwc-nurnberg.jpg
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sknebel Thank you Zegnat! (I couldn't get the photos of my phone, so sebsel redid it ;))
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Zegnat I will get this up asap
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sebsel We're having lunchbreak (after the lightning rounds)
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sebsel the third room does not have a name yet...
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@ambrwlsn90 thanks to @aaronpk for teaching us about microformats at @indiewebcamp @nueww @tollwerk #neuww :) https://twitter.com/ambrwlsn90/status/865883663967424512/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865883663967424512)
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Zegnat I basically forgot the entire third room because it didn’t have a name, hahaha
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Loqi rofl
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@sl007 Ich mag das @YouTube-Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2JpEpiGU0A&feature=youtu.be&a= #microformats - IndieWebCamp Nürnberg 2017 (twitter.com/_/status/865885057805803520)
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Zegnat https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg/Schedule - with links for etherpads et al
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Zegnat Is anyone from IRC going to #law? sknebel, sebsel?
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Zegnat Ping dgold[m] for #law session at IWC Nuremberg. Also, if someone could make sure they discuss https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/39 I would be really pleased :D
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Loqi [Zegnat] #39 Normalise licensing for projects in the IndieWeb GitHub org.
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Zegnat sknebel: if you have WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger on your phone (though I guess you wouldn’t use either of those?) you can always use that to send me photos
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aaronpk Zegnat: im going to the #law session!
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Zegnat Nice, aaronpk! I would love to be kept in the loop on that. Though I am guessing that is not the one that will be streamed?
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aaronpk Correct, they needed the projector for the other session
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aaronpk how's the audio on the stream btw? Hopefully you can't hear the other session? We are all in the same room basically
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Zegnat Let me go check. I don’t keep the stream open because capped internet
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sl007 aaronpk - well we can hear em but it's ok
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Zegnat What is the quickest way to get to the stream? Do we have a redirect somewhere using indieweb.org?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "quickest way to get to the stream" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/live
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aaronpk hm i want to change the hashtag for the #introduction session, since I called this morning "Introductions" already
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Zegnat Sure, go ahead, I just copied the postits
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Zegnat Switching between sessions? Not a good moment for me to test the stream sound
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aaronpk lunchtime right now
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aaronpk guess i can just play back one ofthe videos
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Zegnat I could hear you talking about leaving your computer and something about live streaming, aaronpk
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Zegnat And that wasn’t even aimed at the mic. So things seem fine.
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Zegnat I am now eavesdropping on jkphl
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Zegnat Sound on the presentation is loud and clear, aaronpk!
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Zegnat Whoever asked about nested h-cards (at the end of the table) was harder to pick-up on microphone. aaronpk
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calumryan Nuremberg Web Week interviews currently so streamed sessions not yet started
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Zegnat calumryan, what do you means sessions not started yet?
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Zegnat I am listening to aaronpk and his microformats session
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Zegnat Or is this not live?
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Zegnat Well, crap, this wasn’t live. Oh well. Microphone comment still applies ;)
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calumryan1 Intro session however hasn't
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Zegnat Yeah, calumryan1, my mistake for thinking I was watching a livestream when YouTube had simply started streaming the lightning session
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pantal [youtube] new Indiewebcamp stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vm_qlyb8PU
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Zegnat Now it is live!
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calumryan How's the sound on the stream?
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Zegnat Fine, I can hear jkphl good. Sometimes a little low, but I don’t hear much from the other session.
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Zegnat The real question is what happens when people start asking questions and more round-table happens
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Zegnat needs a minute to grab lunch
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Zegnat That tantek quote is nice, but needs a permalink ;)
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Zegnat calumryan1 is the WiFi unstable?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Doing it the Hard Way" by dgold@ascraeus.org (Daniel Goldsmith) on 2017-03-30 https://ascraeus.org/doing-it-the-hard-way/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Embracing the IndieWeb" by dgold@ascraeus.org (Daniel Goldsmith) on 2017-01-25 https://ascraeus.org/embracing-the-indieweb/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Indieweb Adventures" by dgold@ascraeus.org (Daniel Goldsmith) on 2017-02-21 https://ascraeus.org/indieweb-adventures/
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calumryan Zegnat: stable, just disconnecting my Android client as it keeps rejoining
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Zegnat Aaah
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Zegnat Question for IWC gang: is there anyone there who is just getting started with HTML? That includes people who may have a domain or WordPress site, but wouldn’t be able to just “add classes”? #buildingblocks actually sounds like too highlevel for those people. Which made me wonder.
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calumryan The next session will be on this, I may be wrong but I think everyone has reached past that level here
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Zegnat calumryan, if you can get a feel for the room, that would be sweet. I am thinking of 2016’s Düsseldorf where some of us helped people just with HTML. And with last night’s discussion around getting more people involved for IWS that has been going through my mind.
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Zegnat Also: kudos to whoever asked jkphl what “Tom” had gained after getting to IndieWeb level 1. /we should really get a better answer to that.
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Zegnat is using IRC again for his own note taking and thoughts sharing
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calumryan First time I’ve seen jkphl doing his talk introducing the IndieWeb. Really good for new people. I can see he’s used some of the ideas from my talk on it last year but he covers much more detail
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calumryan jkphl++
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Loqi jkphl has 28 karma
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Zegnat Good PESOS example might also be Swarm? Good app for checkins, hard to build that yourself (maps, GPS, etc), so you PESOS.
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Zegnat Ah, adactio read my mind
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Zegnat Or the other way around
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Zegnat Did someone just clap by hitting the tabel?
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Zegnat Please don’t.
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Zegnat calumryan ^^^
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Zegnat Another tip for next session: don’t roll-up the screen while someone is talking either. Makes for a lot of background noise to listen through, imho.
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Zegnat Whos is the lovely English accent asking the clever questions at #buildingblocks?
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Zegnat Live stream is at indieweb.org/live (if anyone asks)! And someone just asked!
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Zegnat #buildingblocks had so many great questions for #onboarding, wow
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Zegnat new camera angle, aaronpk?
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Zegnat Oh, maybe not, only looked like it big
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pantal [youtube] new Indiewebcamp stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye4UDZD87J0
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Zegnat will actually note in etherpad
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Zegnat Join me https://etherpad.indieweb.org/micropub
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Zegnat 30 seconds delay?! :o
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[jeremycherfas] That would be me Zegnat. <blushing>
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Zegnat [jeremycherfas], you are the accent?
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Zegnat makes mental note
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Zegnat Alright, cweiske will have to do his thing. I can sometimes read what he writes on etherpad before aaronpk says it on my stream
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Zegnat Live stream became choppy :i
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Zegnat [jeremycherfas]: Eat This Podcast link on https://www.jeremycherfas.net/about/ is broken. (I may or may not have been verifying your voice through your podcast ;) )
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Zegnat This feels like way more than 30 seconds delay. I saw the link pass by on etherpad a while before it came up on the stream.
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Zegnat What clients let me change fields? aaronpk?
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[jeremycherfas] Thanks for the heads up zegnat. I'll try to fix it from here.
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Zegnat aaronpk: there was h-card-as-a-service somewhere, right?
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Zegnat goes and sulks about IRC not being on screen in the streamed room
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Zegnat Identity and posting feed are definitely not the same case! See me.
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Zegnat I login to the wiki with a subfolder on a domain name owned by my mom.
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Zegnat https://indieweb.org/h-card_as_a_service - not sure if this could have been used to login though.
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Zegnat tk TLD is (or used to be) free, which is probably where it got its status
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Zegnat Thanks whoever told them not to hit the table!
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aaronpk heh i can't figure out how to make youtube start a new video
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Zegnat Notes for #micropub are on the wiki! https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg/micropub thanks cweiske!
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Zegnat Both #buildingblocks and #micropub had interesting onboarding questions. I am going to have a lot of thoughts to write up tomorrow.
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Zegnat Next one streamed is #decentralized, notes should go here: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/decentralized
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Zegnat I will probably be idling in https://etherpad.indieweb.org/law
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Zegnat Oh, I can eavesdrop on #law. If everyone speaks up a little I am in ;) aaronpk
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sknebel we are coming to you
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Zegnat Hahaha, welcome everyone!
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Loqi hehe
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Zegnat Interesting note on #law, Tantek puts a text on his Facebook that informs commenters that comments might be mirrored on his site.
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Zegnat “ Comments/likes may be copied to original posts & made public!” - in his intro https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik
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Zegnat sknebel, was that “Leistungsschutzrecht für Presseverleger”?
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sknebel Zegnat: yes
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Zegnat CC-BY would require you to “provide a link to the license”. So every comment will have to link to its specific licence.
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Zegnat Also note that CC-BY-NC could be horrible, I might not be allowed to use your comment if I have ads. Unless I quote under fairuse &c.
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Zegnat So please pick the right one
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sl007 sknebel aaronpk In terms of such vocabulary properties these 12 are the concencus in "media" http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/
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sl007 these 12 are very common
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Zegnat Thanks sknebel for being my voice~
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Zegnat Any of the following is scoped under GDPR (according to wikipedia): According to the European Commission "personal data is any information relating to an individual, whether it relates to his or her private, professional or public life. It can be anything from a name, a home address, a photo, an email address, bank details, posts on social networki
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Zegnat So if you parse a name, email address, or twitter post, you are processing personal data and must abide by GDPR. IANAL&c&c
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Zegnat ng websites, medical information, or a computer’s IP address."
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Zegnat So Bridgy would definitely be under GDPR.
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Zegnat What being under GDPR means, I am not 100% sure.
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Zegnat Also from wikipedia: “Valid consent must be explicit for data collected and the purposes data is used for (Article 7; defined in Article 4).” Which is a bit of a headache for webmention endpoints, possibly, maybe.
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Zegnat If I have not consented to you parsing my hcard, that might give you problems
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aaronpk Hence then need for rel license which is essentially an explicit consent
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Zegnat Yeah, I now get aaronpk saying he should give consent with sending webmentions. Stream delay is hampering me a little ;)
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Zegnat needs to call in to this, hahaha
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Zegnat You would need to license your personal information (your hcard) under CC.
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Zegnat If you want to get away from GDPR stuff.
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sknebel I'm looking at what you write and throw in quotes if it fits
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Zegnat Yeah, I just write 30+ seconds behind ;)
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Zegnat Question: do we know if WithKnown the company has looked into this before?
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Zegnat Where this comes from, sknebel: we are trying to get journalists to post on their own sites. They may have a contract with their publisher that allows them to publish it themselves, but will not allow us to repost. (This is purely about reposting entire articles, of course.)
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Zegnat adactio just needs to make sure he has the rights to use the contributions forever. That is the licensing.
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adactio Zegnat: Thanks. I'll look into what Wikipedia use.
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Zegnat adactio: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#7._Licensing_of_Content “all users contributing to the Projects are required to grant broad permissions to the general public to re-distribute and re-use their contributions freely” - and then a lot more, of course
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adactio Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 38 karma in this channel (44 overall)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Facebook Goes Full “Black Mirror”: How Facebook Is Making Membership a Prerequisite to Everyday…" by kevinmarks on 2017-05-20 https://thebolditalic.com/facebook-goes-full-black-mirror-how-facebook-is-making-membership-a-prerequisite-to-everyday-e88fb03b0eb9
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Zegnat Link for my own quick usage: http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing
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Loqi Licensing
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Zegnat http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-formats is the interesting page, I think
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Loqi licensing-formats
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Zegnat facts (metadata about files) are never copyrightable (unless odd database laws apply)
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Zegnat personal information is ... iffy.
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Zegnat sknebel: you are also talking about Recht am eigenen Bild too, right?
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Zegnat That’s a whole different nightmare :p
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Zegnat Or maybe I am confusing that one with the Dutch portretrecht.
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sknebel Zegnat: yeah, it kind of is, but the fact that you can identify someone is an important part of its justification (from my understanding)
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Zegnat p-license="MIT" vs u-license="https://opensource.org/licenses/MIT" vs ... parsing will be tricky unless spec’ed.
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Zegnat There are IDs for licenses: https://spdx.org/licenses/
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Zegnat ^^^ sknebel
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Zegnat Parsing rules are hard. And sometimes confusing. Especially adding a u-whatever on a h-whatever which will then take the u-url value from h-whatever.
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Zegnat p-* could still be a URL!
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Zegnat I think? :p
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Zegnat aaronpk uses rel
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aaronpk oops
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Zegnat Oh, sounds like sebsel was also checking? Or reading me checking
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Zegnat That was really interesting!
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pantal [youtube] new Indiewebcamp stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a4VBK56P4g
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Zegnat #law is wikied. though I need to do a little clean-up still. https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg/law
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sknebel Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 39 karma in this channel (45 overall)
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sknebel (also, I'm really happy pantal still works. was kind of worried he'd crash)
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Zegnat Are you pantal, sknebel?
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Zegnat Who is notetaking location?
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sknebel pantal runs is on my server
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Zegnat sknebel, you are notetaking? Then I will stop, because I am always lagging behind.
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sknebel Zegnat: ok
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sknebel although you don'T seem to lag much right now
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Zegnat Maybe it grows over time with buffering kicking in etc. Don’t know.
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Zegnat ask aaronpk if this map of all is allowed to be linked please
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Zegnat sknebel ^^^
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Zegnat Before we put it somewhere where it will be logged
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Zegnat thanks :)
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Zegnat Note to self for later discussion: IWC/IWS/HWC needs a policy on links being made public. I think I have shared links from tantek that weren’t supposed to be public before. And once they enter the IRC logs or the wiki history…
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Zegnat Possible reason to have your location: safety pages!
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Zegnat sknebel link of the shown Google Street View example?
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Zegnat SOUND
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Zegnat Well, I don’t know what people say, hahahaha
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Loqi rofl
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Zegnat imagines an "Intermission" screen on stream
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Zegnat And we are back
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tantek o/ IWC Nürnberg!
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Zegnat I kinda want to use those NY coordinates for coordinate display below posts now
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Zegnat What tag page is adactio scrolling through?
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adactio Zegnat: https://adactio.com/links/tags/location
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Zegnat Thanks, adding to etherpad!
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Zegnat Hahaha, sorry for all the pink!
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Zegnat I don’t like 3words for the reason adactio gives
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Zegnat There are google plus codes that is open
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GWG tantek: You know that WordPress Indieweb rel me problem you were working on the other day? I think I figured out why
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tantek GWG, that would be great
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Zegnat sknebel Google Plus Codes also has the property of adding and removing letters for precision.
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GWG tantek: I fixed it in September. But neither pfefferle nor I pushed a new version to wordpress.org since then
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GWG So, I'm prepping a new version
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tantek oh dear
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tantek yeah ship early ship often!
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tantek which reminds me, I updated /Falcon with a minor feature enhancement yesterday
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GWG Well, most of the plugins we work on, pfefferle has to upload to wordpress.org as the author. But I can push this one.
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tantek GWG, it's probably the most important WordPress plugin since it is the first one people will install to become IndieWeb ready
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GWG Except I want to add some additional changes and fixes...and another community member has to review any PRs.
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GWG I implemented miklb's suggestion.
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GWG Figured I might as well close some other issues.
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miklb oh?
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GWG miklb: The alternate plugin installer
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miklb I'll take a look
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GWG Look at the 'mayfixes' branch in my version of the repo
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miklb ok
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tantek GWG, consider making it a goal to ship updates to all the key IndieWeb WordPress plugins *before* IWS
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GWG I was going to work on something else, but the realization we haven't pushed that fix inspired me to make more fixes and try to do a new version.
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tantek so that anyone new to IWS who starts with WordPress has a better chance of success
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miklb tantek I hope to have a new mf2 WP theme ready IWS also
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tantek consider how can you help new WordPress folks at IWS make this summary of IWS a success for them? "A hands-on conference focused on making your own website and connecting it to social media - so you don't have to store everything you make on Facebook"
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tantek miklb++ awesome! that would be great too
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Loqi miklb has 29 karma in this channel (32 overall)
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GWG tantek: I have a major Semantic Linkbacks rewrite that was reviewed and changes requested. I want to try to get that done before. I'm going to try to get these fixes for Indieweb done this weekend. And I'll try to handle any outstanding bugs for my other plugins if I can.
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GWG tantek: Oh, and if you missed it in the logs...I bought my ticket last night
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sknebel Zegnat: oh yeah, now the stream lagged terribly behind
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sknebel I hope it still was followable
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Zegnat Stream ended just now.
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tantek GWG great! I need to buy my plane tickets and reserve hotel too. I'll be in Boston beforehand for the @W3CAB meeting so it's bit more complicated for me
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Zegnat It is followable, I made notes on etherpad, it is just too far behind to join the conversation
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Zegnat tantek, note for IWS that might need some thinking, not sure if you had entered the channel yet when I jotted it down: IWC/IWS/HWC needs a policy on links being made public. I think I have shared links from tantek that weren’t supposed to be public before. And once they enter the IRC logs or the wiki history…
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Zegnat Going to dump the etherpad now. while you all go and pose for the photo ;)
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sknebel Zegnat: to bad :/ anyways, we're done for the day, only photo and closing session. so we say bye for now!
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miklb GWG I'll take a look at your branch later, need to run some errands. I also want to make some progress on the theme this weekend. we can have our own little IWC hack time :-)
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GWG Also, if anyone is interested, my room has an extra bed which I will rent at 50% of room cost. The hotel in question has a pool, and is only a 20 minute ride by streetcar away.
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tantek Zegnat, in general we tell people things are blogged / public by default at HWC/IWC/IWS, and that if they don't want something to be, they should say "off the record" or "please don't post/tweet" etc. *BEFORE* they say something
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tantek that's worked well for HWC SF when KevinMarks_ is livetweeting
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GWG I should eat something. It's 11:30 and I haven't had breakfast.
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Zegnat Have a good evening sknebel, pass my greetings along to the guys there, and if interesting pub talks come up you know where to find me ;) Or have sebsel WhatsApp me ;)
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GWG My diet says I should spread my meals more evenly.
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tantek GWG key functionality: IndieAuth (via IndieWeb Plugin), POSSE, backfeed to at least Twitter + FB.
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@ambrwlsn90 @adactio & @Sebsel enjoying #location discussions on 72,973rd street @indiewebcamp @tollwerk @nueww #nueww https://twitter.com/ambrwlsn90/status/865953349891497984/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/865953349891497984)
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Loqi agreed.
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miklb many small meals > few big meals
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tantek sees last night's WordPress indieweb tech support :)
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Zegnat tantek was there a page on the wiki with basically the “introduction script” for when an IWS/IWC is opened? So we can add that to remind people to explicitly inform everyone?
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tantek there is /Introduction
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tantek and I think we clone + edit for each IWC/IWS
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tantek e.g. /2016/Introduction
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Zegnat Will check it out, thanks!
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aaronpk that's it for today! Thanks everyone!
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Zegnat 4 session etherpads have already made it to the wiki. I am going to check the others and dump accordingly.
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Zegnat Did #decentralized just not happen? aaronpk, sebsel, sknebel?
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tantek Zegnat - what "tantek quote"? https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-05-20/1495281375055000
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Loqi [Zegnat] That tantek quote is nice, but needs a permalink ;)
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GWG tantek: IndieAuth login to your site or rel-me so you can log into IndieAuth? As for POSSE and backfeed...I have the Bridgy Publish plugin which is part of the update which is a UI for Bridgy Publish. I probably should add in some Bridgy to that.
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tantek GWG, rel-me
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GWG tantek: The tech support was what made me realize the fact that we hadn't pushed a fix to .org
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tantek GWG, for POSSE+backfeed there needs to be complete instructions for getting that to work
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Zegnat tantek: jkphl / Joschi quoted you at least 2 in his presentation on #buildingblocks
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Zegnat But the slides didn’t have permalinks, that’s what my comment was jokingly aimed at
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Zegnat Or I should say: the slides did not have a permalink with the attribution of the quote
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tantek Zegnat, re: #law see also /disclosure
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Zegnat One quote was: “I don't care about federation, I care about my content, I care about my friends.”
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Zegnat (Does that have a permalink other than http://tantek.com/presentations/2014/05/indieweb/?full#care-content-friends ? )
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tantek that may be from my 2014 PDF talk
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GWG tantek: Linked or as a page?
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tantek (personal democracy forum)
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tantek GWG, people keep coming back to the "Getting started with WordPress" page on the wiki
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tantek so that needs to get cleaned up to prioritize on literally *getting started*, cutting out all the long narrative text
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Zegnat The other quote was this: http://tantek.com/2016/311/t3/js-dr-in-print
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] a jpg. “If it’s not curlable, it’s not on the web.” ? @jkphl js;dr in print! Thanks to Joschi for the photograph of page 88 of @heydonworks’s new book “Inclusive Design Patterns”. From: https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/792452368562... https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/14727432_731510153666939_4681621250081030144_n.jpg
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Zegnat The famous curlable quote
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tantek where getting started = rel-me + POSSE + backfeed
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tantek Zegnat looks like the most recent /Introductions might be from IWC 2016 MIT
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tantek there should be a /2016/Introductions but the page doesn't exist and I don't know where it ended up.
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tantek is caught up with logs and now has to go for the day.
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Zegnat All etherpads, except for #onboarding which spans two events, have been dumped to the wiki.
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aaronpk Yay thanks Zegnat!
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Zegnat I think I will add the YouTube links to both the schedule page and to each session’s page now. That makes sense to me.
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Zegnat aaronpk, I think it shows how much I wanted to be there ;) haha
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Loqi nice
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aaronpk Yes definitely add the YouTube links! Also apologies in advance for the accidental combined video for two of the sessions
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Zegnat I will use a timestamped link for the second one.
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Zegnat aaronpk: Only person who needs to apologise is adactio, for that Johnny Cash song that deafened me ;)
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sknebel Zegnat: pretty sure decentralized happened, but only had people who already forgot about/were not comfortable with etherpad?
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tantek perhaps the notes were decentralized instead of being on one etherpad? ;)
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Zegnat #decentralized was supposed to be in the stream room, sknebel. When you moved #law into there (for my benefit).
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sknebel Zegnat think they went outside? Not sure
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@IndieWebCampDE Die #IndieWebCamp-Mannschafft triffz sich gleich im Kettensteg. Komm dazu! https://g.co/kgs/G21v9t (twitter.com/_/status/865977269222854658)
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@jkphl Heading to the Kettensteg beergarden for after-#IndieWebCamp beers and food. Join us! https://g.co/kgs/G21v9t +@ingodibella (twitter.com/_/status/865977678062428160)
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aaronpk sknebel: sebsel: did you see Joschi's message?
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Zegnat sebsel has already left his WiFi zone, I believe.
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aaronpk Just saw him check in on Swarm
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aaronpk https://seblog.nl/2017/05/20/5
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] Log in home /blog /kort /fotos /tekst /beelden Welkom op Seblog, het weblog van Sebastiaan Andew... https://seblog.nl/thumbs/2017/140/5/699311_ifhlly9wmpep3it7r8dhxqugigjxmcqeq84csynz4j4-1000x1333-blur.jpg
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aaronpk oh my Loqi
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Zegnat Hmm, sebsel doesn’t seem to mark-up any content on that checkin h-entry. So Loqi default to textcontent I am assuming? But h-entry is set to the BODY.
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miklb wonders how much coffee Zegnat has had today
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Zegnat miklb: I don’t even drink coffee ;)
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jjuran I'm open to suggestions for the contents of <https://www.jsdr.org/>
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Zegnat Please display something different for people with JS blocked vs JS turned-on, jjuran ;)
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Zegnat Alright, I think all session pages have their respective YouTube links now, aaronpk :)
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[colinwalker] miklb I sorted re-adding the webmention comment type for replies
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miklb [colinwalker] as I said, I wasn't 100% sure the reasoning it gets removed, other than I think I recall mention that it was needed to do replies to comments as webmetions. I'll be interested to see your solution.
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@iwontsignuphere "so what are you doing this weekend?" - "camping." "..." https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157684052275085 @IndieWebCampDE @indiewebcamp… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/865990077650010113 (twitter.com/_/status/865990077650010113)
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GWG miklb, [colinwalker]: Replies are comments. But there is a new way to address.
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@asciidisco @jkphl @ingodibella I slowly get the impression that this Indieweb thingie is just an excuse for Feierabend beers :D (twitter.com/_/status/865993676388007938)
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • May 13th - 19th, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/408876 (twitter.com/_/status/865995393275920384)
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@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for May 13th - 19th, 2017. https://martymcgui.re/2017/05/20/141658/ (twitter.com/_/status/865995540286328834)
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j4y_funabashi howdy all
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Zegnat Hiya j4y_funabashi!
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j4y_funabashi hey Zegnathow goes it?
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GWG miklb: More enhancements coming through on mayfixes
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Zegnat j4y_funabashi, I am slowly getting down from my IWC high
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j4y_funabashi Zegnat: I am just watching some of the videos and want to say I have really enjoyed all of the Dusseldorf IWC videos on youtube - the conversations were very interesting and the audio has really improved!
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j4y_funabashi Zegnat: has your list of itches grown too?
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Zegnat I have one enormous itch to get rid of before I let my list grow any further
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Zegnat Audio was really good today too. The schedule has icons for today’s recordings: https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg/Schedule
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j4y_funabashi yeah?
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j4y_funabashi oh excellent, I was feeling sad that I only had the Dusseldorf Demos left to watch!
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j4y_funabashi happy dance
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j4y_funabashi Zegnat: what's the enormous itch?
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Zegnat The #law and #location sessions are definitely worth your time. For #law you can even back-up the play time a little if you want to exercise eaves dropping ;) They were talking in a different part of the building. They moved to the microphone when (I think) sknebel asked them if they could move the microphone for me.
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Zegnat j4y_funabashi: http://zegnat.net/media/thing.png - I want Facebook like activity posting. Like http://wiki.zegnat.net/media/fb4.png.
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Zegnat Although I want it to stack ad infinitum. Facebook only allows me to either be watching a thing, or eating a thing. Their activities (that includes moods) do not stack.
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j4y_funabashi ooh that sounds interesting, so is it a micropub client?
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Zegnat I am working on how I am going to store infinitely stacked meta data. I am planning to enable posting through Micropub, yes.
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Zegnat The Micropub client will probably be unusable to everyone but me though, I expect most of the data that gets posted will not be parsed by regular blogs.
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Zegnat I hope to do IWC Berlin, so I better have it all done by then
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Zegnat j4y_funabashi, how is your itchlist?
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j4y_funabashi Zegnat: Good, I had a bit of a lull after being on holiday but now I am back working on implementing /swat0
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Zegnat gRegorLove, I am tracking your wiki changes, so next time when I do session pages I can get it right in one go
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j4y_funabashi I show all incoming mentions on https://j4y.co/webmentions and I am currently working on parsing the special cases for homepage and person mentions
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Loqi [Liz Scattergood] Liz Scattergood liked your post 19th May, 2017
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gRegorLove Zegnat: Main things I like to do are a dfn so it shows up in the newsletter with a one sentence blurb, and [[Category: 2017 sessions]], with the current year of course
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gRegorLove Looks like you did great though, thanks!
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gRegorLove Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 40 karma in this channel (46 overall)
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[datacomputist] Is there a place to host a website composed of static HTML files for free?
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[datacomputist] Whole site is probably < 100 MB.
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gRegorLove What is static hosting?
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Loqi Static site generators are programs that take a set of flat text files on disk and transforms them into a set of static html files ready to be served by a standard web server, or some variation of this example https://indieweb.org/static_hosting
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skippy [datacomputist]: GitHub Pages?
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gRegorLove what is hosting?
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Loqi Web hosting can be the primary regular cost in maintaining an IndieWeb site; this page lists several options from free on up depending on your publishing needs, like a static, shared, private, or dedicated server https://indieweb.org/hosting
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Zegnat Specifically the static hosting section: https://indieweb.org/hosting#Static_domain_hosting
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j4y_funabashi gRegorLove++ for the inspiration on notification pages
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Loqi gregorlove has 93 karma in this channel (131 overall)
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gRegorLove j4y_funabashi: Oh?
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[datacomputist] "Static" just means I don't need the server to be able to host PHP or even have JVM etc.
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gRegorLove Oh, my responses page? I should do more with that. Glad it inspired, though :)
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skippy [datacomputist]: any cheap hosting would do that. $2.50 USD per month: https://www.vultr.com/pricing/
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[datacomputist] Problem is that I already have the set of HTML files, and don't want to use that Jekyll thing.
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Zegnat [datacomputist], yes, that is what the static domain hosting on the hosting page talks about.
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[datacomputist] $2.5 still not ideal. I want real free.
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skippy jekyll doesn't serve your pages. it just builds them.
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j4y_funabashi gRegorLove: yeah I was looking for more people who listed all incoming webmentions and you pointed me to https://gregorlove.com/responses/
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Zegnat GitHub pages should be able to take HTML pages, no need for “Jekyll thing” at all
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[datacomputist] So just commit the set of HTML files to a repo on Github and configure, it will work?
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gRegorLove Fun indieweb story: that responses page helped me see a tweet from someone who was having trouble contacting me.
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j4y_funabashi gRegorLove: which inspired https://j4y.co/webmentions (i am thinking of renaming to /notifications)
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Loqi [Liz Scattergood] Liz Scattergood liked your post 19th May, 2017
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Zegnat [datacomputist], yes, see https://pages.github.com/
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gRegorLove They ended up setting up a new Twitter account and based on my settings, I never saw their tweet (they were an egg)
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Zegnat The example GitHub has is a straight-up HTML index.html file
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miklb skippy last I checked, those 2.50 vultr aren't available anymore
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gRegorLove Except I received a webmention for it and happened to look at that page.
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miklb GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 204 karma in this channel (223 overall)
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miklb I think that new plugin/extension page is an improvement
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skippy miklb: I wondered how long it would last.
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GWG miklb: I also addressed every one of pfefferle's concerns, I hope.
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gRegorLove Subsequently it helped me realize my contact page was set to only be visible to admins, so I got that sorted and have a public contact page again, hah
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GWG Or at least tried to
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miklb I got one for a hubot, but haven't been able to buy another since
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skippy likes the /responses page
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skippy I might need to do something like that.
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GWG miklb: All those plugins need icons
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miklb GWG heh, I thought the same thing when I looked at that page
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miklb even if use the IW logo w/ the name for now
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skippy gRegorLove: this meta tag looks broken in your header: <link rel="subscribe" href="http://woodwind.xyz/subscribe?origin={url}" />
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miklb is there an "official" micropub logo
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skippy gRegorLove: and what is this? <meta name="verify-v1" content="jlPFlChV87HVSQp0xCGXuiMvyf3Ii5azhP2LcDg4bUM=" />
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gRegorLove skippy: That's correct. It's an experiment with... I forget what it's called
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gRegorLove Some feed reader subscriptioni think aaronpk was working on.
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miklb the verify is for Google, yes?
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gRegorLove verify should be google, yeah. I should check if I still need it or if it's a one-time thing
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skippy this reader? https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind
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Loqi [kylewm] woodwind: Unsophisticated stream-style indieweb reader supporting h-feed and xml formats
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skippy thanks for the explanations.
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miklb what is micropub
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Proposed Recommendation) that is used to create, update, and delete posts on one's own domain using third-party clients, and supersedes both MetaWeblog and AtomPub https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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GWG We need to find an artist in the community
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gRegorLove We have many
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gRegorLove skippy: Woodwind is the reader, yes, but it was some experiment with subscribing. Looking for the details.
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gRegorLove What is rel-subscribe?
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Loqi rel-subscribe is an experimental rel value for linking from your home page to your subscription endpoint, and is currently prototyped by https://aaronparecki.com/photo.jpgAaron Parecki on aaronparecki.com; try the Follow button in the right side of the footer of his home page or any permalink https://indieweb.org/rel-subscribe
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GWG gRegorLove: One who will do logos for IndieWeb WordPress plugins?
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skippy thanks.
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Zegnat gRegorLove, I think verify is a one time thing while you link your domain to your google account
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gRegorLove skippy: see https://aaronparecki.com/follow?path=primary for example of the UI
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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[kevinmarks] @jjuran https://twitter.com/hmans/status/865839754100781056
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@hmans We should also write HTML using JSON because JSON is easier to read and write and less error prone. Get to it, browser vendors! (twitter.com/_/status/865839754100781056)
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gRegorLove It basically lets me enter my domain name on someone's "Follow" page and it automatically subscribes in my preferred reader.
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skippy seems overly complicated to me. *shrug*
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jjuran [kevinmarks]: "Translate from Indonesian" :-D
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gRegorLove It's a young experiment. I forget the exact reasoning for it, but probably to give a more familiar "follow" UI like social networks, but indie, without having to go to your reader and paste in a link. SubToMe is good for that too.
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[kevinmarks] datacomputist github pages is pretty good for static hosting. See https://github.com/indieweb/blank-gh-site for a minimal example
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Loqi [indieweb] blank-gh-site: Setup a simple new indieweb site on a domain name in mere minutes with this project.
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jjuran Actually, some of my HTML is generated from Perl data structures.
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[kevinmarks] (I timed my son setting up kitmarks.com on that project and it was under 15 minutes, including the dns changes)
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[kevinmarks] I have jsontoxoxo for that
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[kevinmarks] http://www.unmung.com/jsontoxoxo?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmanton.micro.blog%2Ffeed.json
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jjuran I've been developing my own programming language: https://www.vcode.org/
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gRegorLove Google does periodically check the meta tag to re-verify apparently: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35179?hl=en
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jjuran Now I'm using it to generate Info.plist files: https://github.com/jjuran/metamage_1/blob/master/v/bin/make-info-plist.vx
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jjuran https://github.com/jjuran/metamage_1/blob/master/v/lib/render_xml.vobj
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gRegorLove About every 30 days it looks like.
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dougbeal Hurm, so adding syndications via Bridgy clears out all the existing syndications. When Brid.gy creates a post, is it updating the wordpress version via micropub?
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GWG dougbeal: What do you mean, clear out?
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miklb gRegorLove you can also have a txt record in your DNS
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dougbeal GWG: I'm using OWG, so it starts with instagram. If then I edit the post to just add facebook vis the brid.gy checkbox, it will then only have facebook
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miklb that sounds like a bug
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dougbeal GWG: It also adds Array at the end?
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Zegnat Aah, gRegorLove, I think I used the extra HTML file for verification. That way I didn’t need any meta tags at all.
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dougbeal GWG: Glancing through the bridgy plugin, it looks like it handles merging mf2_syndication just fine, unless its a PHP type issue?
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GWG dougbeal: Array at the end of what? Trying to understand.
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dougbeal GWG: The edit post syndication field
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dougbeal GWG: it will have 1 line for each syndication url, then just say Array
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@sfeldeu a great day at #indiewebcamp Nuremberg #nueww 2017 https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/status/865990077650010113 (twitter.com/_/status/866015694349062144)
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dougbeal What is the wordpress plugin release process like? Could it happen automatically with a release via Travis?
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GWG dougbeal: There are ways to automate it. It uses SVN, so one of us just has to decide to push a release. But we only push when we feel something is stable. So it needs testing.
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GWG dougbeal: That array thing shouldn't happen. Can you do me a favor? Install a plugin called Post Meta Inspector, open the post in question, and send me the output?
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dougbeal GWG: sure
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dougbeal GWG: gist?
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GWG gist is fine
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GWG Whereever you want. Nothing there is a security issue
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dougbeal GWG: here is the current post, let me create a new OwnYourGram post as well https://gist.github.com/dougbeal/7cafc487e32de13c314bfe3fb8e38468
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GWG dougbeal: Looking at that, it should display correctly. But what I see there actually helps a lot in the OYG testing
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GWG dougbeal: https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/issues/57
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Loqi [dshanske] #57 Support OYG Place Name Property
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[kevinmarks] I hate that flickr gives a sign in page on mobile now
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GWG Hello, [kevinmarks]
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Zegnat !tell aaronpk is there any way for you to retroactively tweak the volume of the youtube broadcast? See the timestamps here: https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg/location#Video
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk I'd have to download it and play with the audio. What's wrong?
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Loqi aaronpk: Zegnat left you a message 11 minutes ago: is there any way for you to retroactively tweak the volume of the youtube broadcast? See the timestamps here: https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg/location#Video
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KevinMarks Try the YouTube editor, it does have audio controls
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Zegnat It is when Johnny Cash blasts out
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Zegnat I think adactio may have muted the audio there? But on the stream it kept blasting. Had quite the shock when it kicked in.
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Zegnat But if it needs a whole reupload (with possible quality loss on reencoding) it might not be worth it.
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GWG New Indieweb Enhancements merged in
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@jkphl Having Mai Tai @ Kon Tiki and thinking of @maddesigns & @PatrickLobacher. Cheers! ? #nueww #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/866032227406286850/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/866032227406286850)
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dougbeal GWG: I added another file to the gist, mf2_syndication looks fine, but doesn't match Syndication Links field in Post edit
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dougbeal What is dfn
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dfn" yet. Would you like to create it?
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dougbeal What is dfn is this context? 11:50 <gRegorLove> Zegnat: Main things I like to do are a dfn so it shows up in the newsletter with a one sentence blurb
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dfn is this context" yet. Would you like to create it?
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dougbeal in this context
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gRegorLove What is dfn?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dfn" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Zegnat dougbeal, it is a <dfn> tag on the wiki page, used by Loqi and other parsers to give a summary of what the page is about
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gRegorLove dougbeal: <dfn> HTML element. Loqi automatically adds the p-summary mf2 based on that
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Zegnat What is HTML?
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Loqi HTML (HyperText Markup Language) is the language used to create web pages, thus one of the building blocks of the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/HTML
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Zegnat Like that definition ^^^
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gRegorLove If you view source there, the wiki automatically adds the p-summary around the first sentence with the <dfn> element. Then when we ask "what is" Loqi answers with the p-summary.
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dougbeal What is p-summary
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "p-summary" yet. Would you like to create it?
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GWG New version of the WordPress Indieweb plugin incoming.
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gRegorLove p-summary is the microformat class for a short entry summary in an [[h-entry]]
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Loqi ok
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dougbeal Did that just create a wiki entry?
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miklb what is p-summary
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gRegorLove Loqi did, yep!
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gRegorLove There's a few minute window after a "what is" question for a non-existent page.
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dougbeal gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 94 karma in this channel (132 overall)
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gRegorLove What is Loqi
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
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dougbeal Loqi++
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Loqi loqi has 58 karma in this channel (426 overall)
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dougbeal GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 205 karma in this channel (224 overall)
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gRegorLove Commands documented there ^
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dougbeal Zegnat++
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Loqi slow down!
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dougbeal Loqi you wouldn't let me put them all on the same line :P
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dougbeal What formats a twitter synication? Brid.gy or a plugin?
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GWG Microformats in the theme mostly
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dougbeal It pulled the title, and nothing else :(
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KartikPrabhu i would recommend against usng mf-classes for styling and presentation
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GWG dougbeal: You can use the option that allows you to set the excerpt as the Twitter text
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dougbeal What is mf-classes
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mf-classes" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu dougbeal: microformats markup
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dougbeal GWG: in the WP Bridgy plugin?
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GWG Yes
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gRegorLove Yeah, due to the flexibility of microformats you can place them on different elements. If you start styling using them and then later move them around, you'll have to re-work your styles.
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[pfefferle] GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 206 karma in this channel (225 overall)
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dougbeal GWG: the excerpt is everything before the fold?
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GWG In the post UI, there is a box for it
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GWG pfefferle, back to Semantic Linkbacks for me.
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dougbeal GWG: summary/quote?
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@pfefferle thanks @dshanske for releasing a new #WordPress #indieweb version https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/866040552277594113)
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GWG Not in the Post Properties box, it has its own
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dougbeal GWG: ah, didn't have it display, thanks
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GWG I could have made a box, but thought this was more integrated
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[pfefferle] GWG thanks for the changes... now I can re-enable the plugin without any problems ?
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GWG pfefferle, glad you liked it.
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GWG Should help with onboarding new people
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[colinwalker] Sorry guys, was driving. Here's how I'm putting the webmentions comment type back for replies:
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[colinwalker] https://colinwalker.blog/2017/05/20/20052017-1632/
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GWG Why not just ask for a setting in Semantic Linkbacks that allows you to disable that feature?
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aaronpk Zegnat: omg I just realized that the livestream was piping the audio directly from his laptop!
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sknebel the wonders of HDMI?
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aaronpk I will mute the hdmi source tomorrow in case that happens during demos
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[colinwalker] @GWG was that to me about Semantic Linkbacks?
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[pfefferle] GWG btw. I also released a new Webmention version
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GWG Yes, re changing the comment type
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GWG pfefferle, I saw. Hope to give you something to release soon on the other project
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[colinwalker] Okay. Yeah, good shout.
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jjuran Is thr stream being recorded locally as its being broadcast?
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jjuran *the
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GWG colinwalker: Otherwise you have to change it twice
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[pfefferle] I prepared a unittest for semlb
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GWG pfefferle, is it available anywhere?
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[pfefferle] not yet, I am not sure where to commit, to not kill all your changes...
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aaronpk jjuran: no I'm just streaming it. I'll probably record the demos tomorrow locally cause it'll be short
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GWG pfefferle, I am going to be trying to split author and entry, per your idea
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[pfefferle] GWG but we should focus on the type discovery, because this still does not work properly
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GWG pfefferle, that is my intention. I found some reasons why.
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GWG I am going to try and streamline while I am fixing.
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GWG I think by reviewing it line by line I can make it work better.
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GWG pfefferle, by the way, someone got a Webmention reply to a local comment thanks to the Fragment support with the current version.
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[pfefferle] do you have a link?
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GWG pfefferle, I asked for one
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[pfefferle] GWG ah, you ended with a "." so I thought you know someone
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GWG pfefferle, it was mentioned in here
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GWG [pfefferle]: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-05-16#t1494949129499000
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Loqi [myfreeweb] also i got a reply to my reply… that's a wordpress comment without its own permalink (webmention source was the original page with a hash fragment pointing to a comment). that was kinda unexpected :D
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GWG [pfefferle]: I should test that somehow.
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jjuran aaronpk: IANAL, but my understanding is there are legal ramifications: If you stream without recording, you forfeit copyright.
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jjuran So if you stream directly to YouTube, and they record it, then Google owns the copyright.
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aaronpk I seriously doubt that but I can double check
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aaronpk although maybe if I'm doing this in Germany the laws are different
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cweiske oh there we are again :)
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sknebel_ ;)
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aaronpk tho in Germany the copyright laws are way more in favor of the content creator
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cweiske aaronpk, could you check indieauth.com crash logs?
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cweiske "
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cweiske There was a problem!
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cweiske "
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sknebel_ (heh, did you know that *streaming* movies from "illegal sites" is different than downloading a file in Germany? because streaming only creates a temporary, in memory copy which is less protected)
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cweiske "Something went horribly wrong!"
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cweiske sknebel, EU court changed that last week
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sknebel_ ohh
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sknebel_ link?
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cweiske http://www.internet-law.de/2017/04/eugh-streaming-von-illegalen-inhalten-ist-eine-urheberrechtsverletzung.html
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cweiske actually last month already
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sknebel_ cweiske th
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sknebel_ *thx
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sknebel_ I had seen the decision, but not realized that it also covered the user
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sknebel_ s
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Zegnat I thought a Swedish court had previously stated it legal(ish) here too. I assume this ruling could overwrite that?
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jjuran I'm having a hard time finding something I can cite. Lots of informaiton about how livestreamers might be violating someone else's copyright, but nothing about protecting their own.
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aaronpk jjuran: from https://www.youtube.com/static?gl=GB&template=terms "You retain all of your ownership rights in your Content, but you are required to grant limited licence rights to YouTube and other users of the Service."
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jjuran That's orthogonal to the legal issue I'm raising. It says you "retain all of your ownership rights", but that doesn't mean that you had any to begin with.
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KevinMarks Under the Berne convention you do have copyright ownership of everything you make
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Zegnat Never heard of that issue, jjuran, and IANAL etc, but it seems to me that the creative work that is the stream content is the copyrightable part. IndieWeb/aaronpk/organiser would own rights to that. It doesn't matter who ends up storing the recording
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Zegnat YouTube does not have a claim to those works just because they store and encode a copy. Aaron licenses rights to them for that purpose. I don't see how that would work differently between normal video and streams
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jjuran The issue is whether it exists in a fixed medium. Maybe it's different for digital streams vs. television broadcasts.
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jjuran I seem to recall learning about this around the same time the Aereo lawsuit was in the news.
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dougbeal What is open graph
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Loqi The Open Graph protocol (OGP) is an open* standard developed by Facebook for annotating the primary subject of an HTML page via a set of custom <meta> tags in the document head for the purpose of Facebook showing link previews https://indieweb.org/open_graph
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@xcoeur66x @gruber i disagree & agree. but the death of the web started with Apps & Silos, hence #indieweb, not with AMP https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/05/20/gilbertson-amp (twitter.com/_/status/866080903746998272)