#dev 2017-05-16

2017-05-16 UTC
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tantek if you do find a permalink to an example, please add it to the wiki!
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KartikPrabhu yes
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KartikPrabhu wait as in example of srcset usage?
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KartikPrabhu what is picture?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "picture" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek put it on the srcset page
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tantek picture sounds too generic to be discoverable IMO
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KartikPrabhu yeah, was just seeing if there is something there
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[kevinmarks] I have used srcset for high res avatar images
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tantek can you add links to the examples URL above?
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[kevinmarks] http://ask.willsomeone.com/user/kevinmarks
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[kevinmarks] not sure if it's an indieweb example - it has mf2 but it's on a silo
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myfreeweb I use picture for showing WebP instead of JPEG on browsers that support it. I don't think multiple sizes is worth it for photos and such, I just use high resolution with less "quality" – "Compressive images"
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ben_thatmustbeme [kevinmarks]: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/102759...102989
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unrelenting.technology edited /srcset (+241) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add unrelenting.technology" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I saw Ben, useful addition
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 6 (twitter.com/_/status/864388560715214849)
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schmarty Wow, cweiske wasn't kidding. tt-rss no longer supports websub in master https://tt-rss.org/fox/tt-rss/commit/5b6ea1ef914d0d33516ce59df69637576055ce66
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schmarty Wasn't trivial to rip out, either
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cweiske of course I'm not kidding
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cweiske https://discourse.tt-rss.org/t/pubsubhubbub-websub-subscription-not-renewed/184
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schmarty "remove pubsubhubbub: dead" is a sad commit message
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cweiske "push for rss feeds is a niche of a niche of a niche of a thing nobody cares about."
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schmarty cweiske: apologies for my initial disbelief. I use tt-rss and didn't want it to be true :|
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schmarty wowowow
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aaronpk that's kind of odd, pubsubhubbub is most definitely still in use, especially by RSS feeds!
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Loqi aaronpk: Zegnat left you a message 15 hours, 59 minutes ago: you mention a thing about storing encrypted secret keys in github last weekend? Do you have a write-up about that?
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schmarty oof, I didn't know discourse was js;dr
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aaronpk yeah it's pretty bad :(
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cweiske yes, discourse sucks
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Loqi it'll be okay
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cweiske the weird thing is that you see a blank page until JS has initialized
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aaronpk Zegnat: this is the guide I followed for it: https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/google-app-engine/
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cweiske but the content is nevertheless on the page already for search engines
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aaronpk cweiske: lol that's hilarious in a sad way
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aaronpk progressive enhancement gone wrong
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cweiske there is probably some deeply technical reason for that
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cweiske I did not bother to check
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schmarty That thread is so hostile, wow
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cweiske typical foxiness
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cweiske I'm used to that
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cweiske has a dejavu
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cweiske https://chat.indieweb.org/2014-03-27#t1395950189000000
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schmarty /adds "find a new reader app" to his TODO list
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Loqi [cweiske] typical russian if i may say that
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cweiske schmarty, why?
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cweiske I'm going to write the websub plugin for tt-rss
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cweiske i'm deeply interested in that
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schmarty underlines "needs supportive dev community" in his notes
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aaronpk yep
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schmarty cweiske: I will definitely install your plugin once it exists. I don't expect jumping feed readers to be a quick TODO item
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cweiske OPML *should* make that quick
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cweiske never tried that though
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schmarty Haha, it's the shopping that takes time. :)
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Loqi schmarty: lol
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GWG Someone was tangling with the tt-rss developer, big surprise.
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schmarty This was my first exposure to the tt-rss dev experience, heh.
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schmarty As a user I don't like to run code by someone who treats other people with toxic behavior :/
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cweiske if you have to deal with users you'll gravitate towards that behavior
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aaronpk can you tell if the "pubsubhubbub is dead" came from actual usage data that they're tracking in tt-rss?
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cweiske see discourse link
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cweiske "personally i haven't seen any feeds supporting pubsubwhatitsface for years now and honestly idgaf, it's dead code."
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schmarty They cite only their personal experience in the discourse thread
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cweiske s/they/he/
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aaronpk huh yeah. well superfeedr would demonstrate otherwise, so i will just ignore that
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aaronpk cweiske: btw I'm curious about your thoughts on this issue: https://github.com/w3c/websub/issues/106
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Loqi [Alkarex] #106 Suggestion: Use HTTP 410 Gone
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cweiske good idea. should implement that for phubb as well
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk it's a bit late in the process to be adding new features to websub, but if enough hubs implement it right now, there's a chance it'll make it into the final spec
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aaronpk speaking of which, i'm gonna need to find a spot at this conference to take this w3c call in a couple hours
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ben_thatmustbeme feels like he is talking people down from the ledge when trying to stop people suggesting a distributed account backup / quarum must verify posts type of system
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ben_thatmustbeme a couple people in #mastodon were trying to suggest a system such as this for mastodon... i had to step in once they started to talk blockchain
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aaronpk for what purpose? what's the end result supposed to be?
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ben_thatmustbeme "if an instance goes down my conversation and network isn't lost"
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aaronpk o
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ben_thatmustbeme i basically said, start simple, like export import for toots / friend list
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sknebel ah, as a solution for the "account is tied to an instance"?
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, only problem is if you start doing replication between instances, you are just going to make the load on all of them higher, and make it less likely to have small independant instances
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aaronpk backups feel like a problem that is unrelated to participating in the network
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aaronpk i don't want to back up everyone else's accounts, but i don't mind archiving copies of things I reply to or favorite, or the comments on my posts
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ben_thatmustbeme exactly
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ben_thatmustbeme they are talking constant communication to back up basically the entire network
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aaronpk that's a quick way to make sure nobody runs the mastodon software anymore
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, now he is revising it to 'register with multiple instances and it will only replicate those users that are registered'
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ben_thatmustbeme means instances with open sign-up will become half full with just back-up accounts
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sknebel at leas replication should happen quite a bit anyways. or are there replicating more than the public feeds that are synced by followers anyways?
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myfreeweb hmm the indieweb plugins for wordpress parsed my reply's date as December 31, 1969 https://mmmicro.eli.li/2017/05/16/220/
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Loqi [Eli Mellen] Indieweb etiquette question: when reposting or liking a link is it polite-er to link directly to the content or is it better to link through your domain so the like-action itself has a URL?
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GWG Open an issue on Semantic Linkbacks.... which is likely the culprit.
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GWG I have been making tweaks recently, but I have more feedback to address
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myfreeweb also i got a reply to my reply… that's a wordpress comment without its own permalink (webmention source was the original page with a hash fragment pointing to a comment). that was kinda unexpected :D
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GWG I implemented basic Fragment support and the author merged the PR. How did it work for you? I have not tested it in the wild.
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myfreeweb my parser didn't recognize the webmention because the top level h-entry wasn't a reply to me
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myfreeweb I never expected to receive replies that don't have their own actual permalinks
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myfreeweb (actually it's also "h-as-note" without h-entry)
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tantek oh dear where is that h-as-note coming from?
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GWG tantek, we've discussed that. pfefferle integrated them in a long time ago. They are still there in a lot of things.
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GWG h-as never caught on, but remains in a lot of the WordPress stuff due that
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KartikPrabhu i don't think h-as was meant to catch on
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myfreeweb it's just weird that there's no h-entry
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KartikPrabhu right ^
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tantek GWG, can we file an issue to drop that?
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GWG What is the link you saw it on?
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myfreeweb https://mmmicro.eli.li/2017/05/16/220/
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GWG I want to know which to file the issue on
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks adds h-as to comments. But not note.
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GWG It isn't in Independent Publisher, the theme. What other Indieweb WordPress plugins are installed?
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myfreeweb supposedly the whole suite
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GWG wordpress-uf2?
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GWG That does add that property, but is in need of a rewrite
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tantek what is h-as
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Loqi h-as was an attempt to explicitly map ActivityStreams vocabulary 1:1 to microformats, and has been largely abandoned since it somewhat duplicates existing h-entry functionality, and also encourages explicit post typing which post creation UIs have largely abandoned in favor of more user-flexible optional properties, and post type discovery for any consuming code that claims to need explicit types https://indieweb.org/h-as
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GWG tantek, pfefferle proposed transferring that plugin to the Microformats or Indieweb organization
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tantek GWG which plugin?
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GWG The wordpress-uf2 one I suspect may be adding h-as-note
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GWG It attempts to add Microformats 2 without the theme cooperating.
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tantek interesting
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GWG It isn't the theme, because I checked it
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GWG The developer is very open
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tantek I think that's better suited for the indieweb org because it's specifically about improving the indieweb-ness of a blog
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tantek uf2/mf2 is just the plumbing its using in this case to get the job done
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GWG tantek, maybe after I finish trying to do a major change to Semantic Linkbacks, which hopefully moves it closer to reunification with its Webmention counterpart, maybe I will see about updates.
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GWG I don't use it, because my theme has mf2 built in, but I would like to turn it into a combination plugin and library themes could use to adopt some structure.
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GWG I need to work on my theme anyway
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: we are the same people here ;) no need to copy anything
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sknebel [jeremycherfas] the example from Zegnat's page is a (the most) difficult corner case
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sknebel (https://licit.li/59170c37dcea1 :P)
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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sknebel and let's start by looking at the *similarities*, hopefully that makes it clearer
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[jeremycherfas] And there was me thinking @zegnat had been helpful.
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ben_thatmustbeme is trying to understand what exactly is the use case
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Zegnat I develop tests, [jeremycherfas] ;)
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sknebel displaying comments is the use case in the end I assume?
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[jeremycherfas] You certainly do.
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ben_thatmustbeme ah okay
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sknebel the microformats parser gives you a list of all the objects marked up with microformats it finds in the page
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sknebel that's items: a list of objects
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ben_thatmustbeme *usually* a reply is one single item on the page, which makes it simple
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sknebel generally, a page with a post should have exactly one h-entry, so if you want to find the post you look through items until you find one that's has "h-entry" in its type
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[jeremycherfas] Yes it is. An on paper, very simple. [name] [mentioned/replied to] this item on [time]. With a link on [name]. And, if it is a reply, a copy of the content below.
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GWG I keep contemplating the issue of flattening my mf2 into something more jf2.
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[jeremycherfas] The only tool currently at my disposal is Twig, unless I develop a plugin of my own, which is even more out of my depth.
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sknebel what is twig?
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Loqi twig may refer to TWiG (This Week in Google), or the Twig (template engine) https://indieweb.org/twig
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[jeremycherfas] Twig template engine
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sknebel give me a moment to read up on that ;)
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[jeremycherfas] You guys are going to regret this in Nurnberg
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ben_thatmustbeme but you do have access to a full parser?
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, you are talking publishing
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[jeremycherfas] I believe the file I get has been parsed.
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[jeremycherfas] Yes, I am talking publishing the webmentions I have received.
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ben_thatmustbeme ah
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, so there are 2 pieces you really need, 1, is the author, and 2 is the actual reply correct?
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sknebel yeah, the grav plugin stores the mf2 parser result: https://github.com/Perlkonig/grav-plugin-webmention#receiverfile_data
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Loqi [Perlkonig] grav-plugin-webmention: Implements the Webmention protocol (with the Vouch extension) for the Grav CMS
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myfreeweb comments-presentation+reply-contexts can get pretty complex :D here's my horrible messy template https://github.com/myfreeweb/sweetroll/blob/450170478a074166c9f9a03702242b9bd69c32e4/sweetroll-fe/views/_layout.pug
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Zegnat [jeremycherfas], where will [name] link to? sebsel for instance does the interesting thing where the name links to the users page while the timestamp links to the actual reply
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Zegnat Example: https://seblog.nl/2017/05/14/2/understanding-indieauth
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] At one point yesterday, I understood the difference between IndieAuth, IndieAuth and IndieAuth. I believe I reached that point again, almost. https://seblog.nl/thumbs/2017/134/2/img_8431-1000x1000-blur.jpg
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myfreeweb that's a pretty standard thing i think. i do this as well, yeah
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: how familiar are you with twig?
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Zegnat That’s also another thing you can use me to test. See e.g. https://seblog.nl/2017/04/03/2/ben-je-homo where my photo links to http://vanderven.se/martijn/ while the icon links to the actual repost on https://licit.li ;)
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] Ik hoop dat 'val je op mannen?' ooit net zo wordt als 'ben je links- of rechtshandig?' nu is: vroeger beladen, soms relevant, vaak overbodig.
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sknebel Zegnat: getting way ahead of things here I believe ;)
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Zegnat Haha, sorry, I read “display”, and I went “did you know…” :p
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Loqi nice
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Zegnat is killing time until his D&D session starts
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myfreeweb so it seems the thing you want right now is https://indieweb.org/authorship
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myfreeweb there is a php library mentioned there that finds the correct author of an entry
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myfreeweb (before that, to find the actual entry, just get the first microformat that includes h-entry in its type
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myfreeweb )
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: do you have anything at all yet to build on? as in, can you show anything from the received webmentions (ignoring the mf2 data for now, so maybe just the source url) as a first step?
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[jeremycherfas] @Zegnat I’ll decide where things link when I can reliably access the data I need. ?
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[jeremycherfas] @sknebel I’m making progress with Twig, can do flow control and some data access.
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[jeremycherfas] Yes, I can easily show the source url, because it has it’s own key:value pair in the data_received file.
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sknebel ok, good (just wanted to make sure that's already covered)
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[jeremycherfas] And I can find the author in each of the two examples, but the information is in completely different places.
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[jeremycherfas] Which is where this all strated.
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[jeremycherfas] started
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myfreeweb there are websites where finding the author is harder. so you should use the algorithm. and you're lucky because there are existing libraries to do it in your language :)
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myfreeweb before finding the author you need to find the entry itself, simply take the first h-entry in items
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myfreeweb look at https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner it does that too
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Loqi [barnabywalters] php-mf-cleaner: Takes microformats2 array structure and makes it more sane. Counterpart to indieweb/php-mf2
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myfreeweb $entry = Mf2\findMicroformatsByType($microformats, 'h-entry') and then $author = Mf2\getAuthor($hEntry) something like that
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[jeremycherfas] @myfreeweb I see what you’re saying, and I’m thinking I will need to develop a plugin to do that, because I cannot actually run PHP in Twig. But that may in the end be the best approach.
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myfreeweb you can extend twig itself https://twig.sensiolabs.org/doc/2.x/advanced.html but yeah extending your CMS might be the better idea
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sknebel the problem is that e.g. the author name isn't necessarily on the page the webmention endpoint fetched
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sknebel (e.g. because there is only a link to the home page for the author)
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sknebel you could do some of the variants just in twig, but others require more work, and that should be once, which would mean changing the webmention plugin
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sknebel *should be done once
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[jeremycherfas] The dilemma is that the plugin author already has a switch that makes data_received for a specific Grav page available to that page. So if I could just work with that, from within Grav, that would be simplest. Otherwise, I first have to find all the instances in the general data_received file that are relevant to a specific page.
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[jeremycherfas] The plugin author may be willing to consider changes. I’ll just have to see how far I can get.
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myfreeweb in wordpress land, webmention and comments-presentation are different plugins, maybe a separate plugin would be fine
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sknebel myfreeweb: but e.g. fetching the actual author h-card is probably done by webmention plugin
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myfreeweb ah i've heard they both parse mf2 or something, yeah
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[jeremycherfas] It is indeed. The data in the file, shared in the gists, come straight from the Grav plugin
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sknebel the php-mf-cleaner myfreeweb linked above looks interesting, if it does what I think it might just be an issue of having the plugin call that when it verifies the mention
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sknebel then it could store the enhanced data in the datafile
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[jeremycherfas] That sounds like an improvement.
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myfreeweb can you make your plugin read the data after the webmention plugin did its job, pass source_mf2 to the mf-cleaner functions and put their results into new properties?
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sknebel ignoring the author for now, showing the other data (url/content/timestamp) should actually be easier
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sknebel since it's already in the data you have if it exists
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sknebel then handle the author cases where you have the data (e.g. in chris aldrichs mention, there is a full h-card marked as author, so you have his name and url already)
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[jeremycherfas] Just skimming through the plugin, I’m not actually seeing where source_mf2 gets set. But I’m getting really tired now, so will probably abandon this until tomorrow.
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[tamaracks] From the github project readme, it sounds like the author of the plugin might be open to updates. Looking at his site, I’m not sure he actually uses it.
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[jeremycherfas] I think I’ve roused him a bit.
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[jeremycherfas] I think that the idea of passing the data to that php-mf-cleaner might be an interesting approachy. But not now.
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sknebel Happy to help if I can, or maybe you'll find someone with actual PHP experience (I can read it, but that's about it) at IWC
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[jeremycherfas] Thanks. To be continued …
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GWG Re separate plugins, unification has been discussed
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sknebel question regarding /authorship: why is 7.4 the last on case 7? Is the idea that the h-card on the local page isn't necessarily complete, but is a viable fallback if the primary one isn't available for some reason?
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aaronpk i believe that is the logic, tantek could confirm
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tantek yes
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+6) "claiming Berlin as "established"" (view diff)
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Zegnat aaronpk, is the IRC log parsing broken here? https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-05-14#t1494788708633000
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Loqi [[shaners]] `[[http://example.com/photo.png " target="_blank"> http://example.com/photo.png " target="_blank">http://example.com/photo.png " target="_blank"> http://example.com/photo.png ]]` or `[[http://example.com/video.mp4 " target="_blank"> http://example.com/video.mp4 " target="_blank">http://example.com/video.mp4 " target="_blank"> http://example.com/video.mp4 ]]`
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aaronpk oh boy
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Zegnat Hahaha, Loqi putting that sentence here breaks it even more on the #dev log
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Loqi rofl
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aaronpk well that's confusing
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aaronpk ah, i think it's trying to match the [[]] as a wiki page
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Now (+299) "Twitter reminder" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu yay! now using CSS to display square featured images instead of actually cropping them!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: since you js;dr could you verify that you see square images here https://kartikprabhu.com/articles ?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I see square images but it also looks like I already whitelisted your https domain for scripts :)
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KartikPrabhu cool, works without JS on my browser so must be correct :P
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KartikPrabhu now I have to figure out how to do srcset/sizes in article images
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KartikPrabhu thos still use JS for responsive image resizing stuff
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