#indieweb 2017-06-14

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Zegnat
Good morning IndieWeb
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strugee
tantek: fyi, you seem to be going to IWS 2017 twice ;)
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strugee
you're listed >1 time on https://2017.indieweb.org/
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Loqi
IndieWeb Summit
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strugee
and I, meanwhile, have forgotten to update my h-card with a photo. *sigh*
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tantek
strugee, yes I have a habit of breaking things :)
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tantek
I posted a second RSVP (note each one links to a different permalink)
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strugee
yeah, I saw :D
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tantek
I figured I should try it and see what happens :D
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strugee
hahahahahaha
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Loqi
ahahahaha
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strugee
goes to get some sleep before the SocialCG telecon tomorrow ;)
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Zegnat
tantek, I should follow in your footsteps. Lets see what happens when I submit rsvp="remote yes". I guess nothing, but a good test.
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Zegnat
Oh, never mind, I can’t RSVP to 2017.indieweb.org
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Zegnat
I think aaronpk uses his public XRay endpoint for 2017.indieweb.org, and that one can’t parse my website
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sebsel
not anymore?
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Loqi
[Martijn van der Ven] I will be “hosting” another Virtual Homebrew Website Club this Wednesday from 17:30 to 19:30 (CEST) on talky.io/hwc. No harm done if nobody shows up, but I would love some company!
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sebsel
see, Loqi sees it
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Zegnat
I guess I should try webmention again
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sebsel
yeah, and test your RSVP on https://xray.p3k.io/ itself, see if that works
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Zegnat
Worked now. Huh.
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Zegnat
Either way: “Thanks! Your RSVP was received, but you won't be listed on the event page because your RSVP was not "yes"”
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Zegnat
tantek, looks like I can’t break the RSVP list with my remote RSVP ^^^
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sebsel
what about the value `yes remote` instead of `remote yes`? or is that asking for trouble?
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sebsel
or should both be handled the same way? it is yes and remote at the same time
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Zegnat
We could specify to parse RSVP values as a list of keywords, so order wouldn’t matter. Much like rel or class attributes.
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sebsel
it makes it more complicated to consume, though.
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sebsel
the mf2 way to make it multiple values is using two .p-rsvp's, one for yes, one for remote
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sebsel
but that's weird
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sebsel
also, what is the addition of 'remote no'?
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sebsel
that's just a no.
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sebsel
so: is the distinction between 'remote yes' and 'remote maybe' important enough to make it a two-part thing?
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sebsel
oh we have 'remote interested' as well, maybe?
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sebsel
s/addition/added benefit
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Zegnat
sebsel, I just added remote variants for all values for argument’s sake
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Zegnat
remote no may not make sense, you are right! Comment on the wiki :)
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sebsel
i'll add
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sebsel
Having a Media Endpoint is also very useful for sending screenshots when talking through a text-only chat with a helpdesk :)
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Loqi
ok, I added "http://www.kevinmarks.com/htmlversustex.html" to the "See Also" section of /LaTeX
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Loqi
HTML as TeX replacement 2015-11-06
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://www.overleaf.com/" to the "See Also" section of /LaTeX
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Zegnat
3 hours until HWC. 3 hours until I need my new webmention endpoint to be live. Woops.
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Loqi
I added a countdown scheduled for 2017-06-14 5:39pm CEST (#6020)
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Zegnat
That wasn’t the purpose, but thanks, Loqi
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@ChrisAldrich
@Chronotope Nice stream on journalism/publishing. Online publications can learn a lot from the #indieweb model of publishing. #ownyourdata
(twtr.io/1SpTGXxTN1b)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "@Chronotope Nice stream on journalism/publishing. Online publications can learn a lot from the #indieweb model of publishing. #ownyourdata" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-14 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/chronotope-nice-stream-on-journalismpublishing-online-publications-can-learn-a
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Zegnat
Friendly reminder to everyone that virtual HWC will kick-off in ~10 minutes on https://talky.io/hwc !
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Zegnat
Joining me, sebsel?
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sknebel
Hm, I don't have enough data left to join you :/
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Loqi
HWC. 3 hours until I need my new webmention endpoint to be live. Woops.
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Loqi
Countdown set by Zegnat on 2017-06-14 at 2:39pm CEST
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sebsel
I'm kind of mid-blogpost.
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tantek
this is funny. you don't get a permalink for a FB RSVP "post" until someone likes it. then you get a notification of someone liking (or otherwise responding to your RSVP) and that links to the permalink
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tantek
just goes to show that the underlying representation is one of posts with permalinks, not actions and activities
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aaronpk
i can't hear anyone on talky, what's going on?
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Loqi
aaronpk: gRegorLove left you a message 9 hours, 36 minutes ago: I think this PR will make more avatars show up on 2017.indieweb.org https://github.com/indieweb/2017.indieweb.org/pull/1
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tantek
lol wat
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tantek
checks the topic
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tantek
hey if there's a live talky can whoever is running / organizing it put it in the /topic ?
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Zegnat
How would I put something in the topic, tantek?
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Zegnat
And yes, we are live
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tantek
Zegnat, depends on the client, however usually if you start something with "/topic blah blah blah" it will put that in the topic. Preferably by copy pasting the existing topic so you don't lose that :)
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Zegnat
Only people with +o should be able to do that though
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tantek
o rly
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tantek
wonders if bridgy is returning the FB permalink for an RSVP POSSE
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sknebel
Him, joining talky from the phone really doesn't work
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sknebel
(It insists on using the camera, and I think that's too much for my CPU and connection)
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Zegnat
sknebel, odd that it would do that
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tantek
tries the talky autocomplete in his history
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tantek
checks the basement for copies in triplicate
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@jkphl
We got our own Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg light signals today thanks to @sfeldeu! #indieweb +@iwontsignuphere https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/875025220427448320/video/1
(twtr.io/1SpfTFKQ6kL)
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snarfed
tantek: re bridgy publish responses, yes, always returns permalink. https://brid.gy/about#response
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tantek
oh nice! I need to pay attention to that in Falcon then!
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "@-mentioning people on my blog" https://seblog.nl/2017/06/14/6/at-mentioning-people
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I'll check to see if it's the case with altplatforms' bug, but I've discovered that it's having Jetpack's commenting feature "Let readers use WordPress.com, Twitter," by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-14 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/ill-check-to-see-if-its-the-case-with-altplatforms
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[barryf]
At HWC London with calumryan. I'm hacking on my check-in display.
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Zegnat
Nice!
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Zegnat
Virtual HWC is still going on, for anyone who doesn’t have a physical place to be
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aaronpk
[barryf]: awesome!
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[barryf]
Thanks! Works well. I just need to better handle the comment display. Nice surprise when it arrived.
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aaronpk
excellent
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calumryan
trying to process the full contents for my check-ins, so far just the location, lat, lon data going through
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gRegorLove
Howdy, indieweb
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Zegnat
petermolnar: we have a definitive time for the Leaders Summit https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#When
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Zegnat
Hi gRegorLove
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gRegorLove
On Facebook "Now you can add posts, check-ins and more to albums"
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "The IndieWeb Movement Will Help People Control Their Own Web Presence?" on 2017-06-14 https://www.futurehosting.com/blog/the-indieweb-movement-will-help-people-control-their-own-web-presence/
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Zegnat
Talky.io is not friendly to capped internet. Woops.
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Zegnat
I wonder if it is because you are required to receive video and not only audio.
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Zegnat
starts saving GBs for IWS.
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aaronpk
yep and you're sending a stream to each person
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aaronpk
instead of just one stream to a single server
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sknebel
which is why I'm really annoyed you can't turn off the video
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aaronpk
yeah you can only stop yourself from sending, but can't stop receiving others'
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sknebel
maybe we should investigate a voice-chat only alternative
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aaronpk
Mumble has been great for the w3c group meetings
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sknebel
(discord? mumble?)
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sknebel
oh, you use mumble there? I tried to figure that out and failed
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Zegnat
Discord has been great for my Dungeons&Dragons group. But heard good things about Mumble. And for mumble we can set-up our own server?
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aaronpk
it's a little confusing at first but it works super well
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sknebel
(tried to figure out what the CG uses, not mumble. mumble is fine ;))
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Zegnat
How are mumble’s sound controls? I like Discord for giving me separate volume sliders for each person connected.
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aaronpk
i don't think there are volume controls for each person
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Zegnat
Not really a must have, but it has been great to have that on Discord.
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aaronpk
it hasn't been a problem with the w3c calls yet
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Zegnat
aaronpk tantek should we get a separate invite to adactio for the Leaders Summit as well? Like with jkphl it would be nice to have him participate if we discuss regular HWCs.
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aaronpk
yes definitely
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aaronpk
jkphl said he will join us!
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Zegnat
Nice!
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sknebel
(for protocol, I just invited sgreger again, he might have time for remote)
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Zegnat
aaronpk, can you (re)invite adactio? I added an RSVP for jkphl to the wiki.
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Zegnat
doesn’t feel “high up” in the community enough to send invites to jkphl and adactio
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aaronpk
sent invite
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tantek
Zegnat, as an active co-organizer, you are :)
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Zegnat
After I land my first speaking gig I’ll reconsider, tantek ;) I am still coming to terms with meeting my webdev heroes
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats a lot of green :D
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tantek
Zegnat hey if we can turn sebsel into Bowie, we can all be heroes :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
best i can tell, thats the most complete it can be, and most complete to date
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tantek
what is Splatter?
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Loqi
splatter is a laravel based indieweb personal web implmentation under development by https://ben.thatmustbe.me/image/static/icon_64.jpg Ben Roberts https://indieweb.org/Splatter
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: new micropub client report ^^
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 98 karma in this channel (232 overall)
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Zegnat
Hmm, Loqi doesn’t respect alt="" from the {{sparkline}} template
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sebsel
!tell eli_oat Hi! :) I received bridgy webmentions for two POSSEd likes (on Twitter), but no webmention on the original, did you sent them? https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20170614180826
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat
Hi eli_oat!
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eli_oat
Hey there
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Loqi
eli_oat: sebsel left you a message 8 minutes ago: Hi! :) I received bridgy webmentions for two POSSEd likes (on Twitter), but no webmention on the original, did you sent them? https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20170614180826
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Zegnat
(Just prompting you to get you that message ;))
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eli_oat
hahaha, thanks :D
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Loqi
nice
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eli_oat
sebsel — I bet that is because my site doesn't really actually send webmentions automatically. (ಥ﹏ಥ) I should find a solution to that. Sorry!
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eli_oat
IndieWeb IRC etiquette question, if someone is online, but not voiced is it typical to use tell?
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Zegnat
You just !tell if you think someone isn’t reading, I think. Guesstimate wether they are likely to react to just mentioning their name or not.
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eli_oat
legit, legit
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Zegnat
voiced means very little, only that they have written something here while having their name registered on /irc-people
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sknebel
The voice is just showing if someone is listed on irc-people
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eli_oat
ah, gotchya
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eli_oat
thanks
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sebsel
Ah, I didn't saw you in the list, eli_oat, I did search for you!
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sebsel
Hence the !tell
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eli_oat
no worries!
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sebsel
But that explains! No need for me to start debugging then :)
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eli_oat
I have a bad habit of leaving IRC up while away from the computer, so appreciated the tell. yes, and it is defo not an issue on your end :P
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eli_oat
realizing that I may have to clean things up on my end if I want to be a good indieweb-citizen
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sebsel
Oh no, it's fine. I just saw your webmention submit form and thought in that case you would send them too :)
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sebsel
which is not a valid assumption ofcourse
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gRegorLove
Also good to do a !tell if your IRC client shows them as "away"
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[kevinmarks]
TWiG time -send me things
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ben_thatmustbeme
[kevinmarks]: JF2 published
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ben_thatmustbeme
jF2 Feeds basically can surplant JSON Feed but with microformats vocabulary and extensability
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ben_thatmustbeme
and can bring up that websub needs implementation reports
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tantek
... to join the W3C Recommendations Webmention, Micropub, which are already supported by micro.blog
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tantek
context, narrative, etc. journalists like those things.
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[kevinmarks]
it's the androidy guys today
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tantek
kevinmarks, re: android, here's some recent awkward points to raise re: underprivileged, security, etc. http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/07/technology/gadgets/android-iphone-security-poor-digital-divide/index.html
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tantek
see how the androidy guys react to that
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sebsel
Edited both my syntax and blogpost: now @someone is mentioning and +someone is tagging them. https://seblog.nl/2017/06/14/6/at-mentioning-people
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Loqi
[Sebastiaan Andeweg] @-mentioning people on my blog
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tantek
sebsel++ wow very cool!
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Loqi
sebsel has 17 karma in this channel (22 overall)
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sebsel
I like the + notation because it sort of gives the same feeling as 'with'.
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tantek
sebsel - that's a really good UI insight and should be on the /person-tag page if not already
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sebsel
can't find it there yet
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tantek
sebsel - add yourself to the IndieWeb Examples on /person-tag :)
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tantek
and note your UI there :)
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tantek
(and where you got the inspiration from)
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sebsel
'Since person-tags have a specific semantic above and beyond the plain text content of a post, and frankly there's no "#" equivalent for explicit-person tags (@-mention already means, ''mention'', not tag), it makes sense to design a way of presenting person-tags that is distinct from the plain text content, and (likely) different from what is easiest to type!'
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tantek
feel free to add some analysis under the screenshots in /person-tag#Swarm
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tantek
oh that reminds me, I think I brainstormed #@ for person tagging
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tantek
yup - #@ all over that page
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sebsel
I'll add a new heading in the Plain-text section
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tantek
great
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gRegorLove
snarfed: Do you have a page listing event posts?
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snarfed
gRegorLove: nope. https://snarfed.org/responses#rsvps , but not events
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gRegorLove
snarfed: Looking for a more recent event post, if you have one newer than https://snarfed.org/2014-06-16_homebrew-website-club-at-quip on /events
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Loqi
[Ryan Barrett] Homebrew Website Club at Quip
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gRegorLove
Working on noting who uses top-level h-event vs nested in h-entry or something else
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snarfed
gRegorLove: eh all my event html is hand-coded, so i'm not really useful for that anyway
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snarfed
more recent example from ownyourcheckins is https://snarfed.org/2014-12-14_11999 , but too minimal
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Loqi
[Ryan Barrett] Checked into Cirque du Soleil: Kurios with Gina Barrett. https://snarfed.org/cirque_du_soleil_kurios.jpg
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gRegorLove
That's fina, actually. Demonstrates that in WordPress the h-events are nested in h-entry
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gRegorLove
Which was some of the discussion in -dev
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snarfed
again, no, not necessarily. that's just an artifact of me hand-authoring markup.
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gRegorLove
Your theme doesn't add any microformats around posts?
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gRegorLove
The h-as-article on there seems to point to that
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snarfed
yes, it does, but the *h-event* is hand-authored. so it's not good precedent or example of anything.
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snarfed
an mf2 event plugin could easily render it outside the post h-entry and/or e-content
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gRegorLove
Certainly, but that doesn't exist yet. Just capturing today.
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snarfed
eh. i'd discourage you from capturing, since that implies meaning where there really isn't any...but up to you
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snarfed
s/but up to you// :P
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Loqi
ahahaha
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[kevinmarks]
+ is what google uses
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#
@HackerEvents
IndieWebCamp on Saturday 04 November 10:00 @ Contentful (Germany) https://indiewebcamp.com/2017/Berlin
(twtr.io/1SqGMFTbU14)
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tantek
GWG, I partially implemented events in /Falcon and then got interrupted
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tantek
oops wrong #
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gRegorLove
is skimming https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/22/post-mortem-for-plancast/ for lessons on "event services are hard"
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gRegorLove
What was Plancast?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Plancast" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10m3
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tantek
wow really
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aaronpk
we saw mark today during virtual HWC!
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tantek
wait what
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aaronpk
he joined at the beginning!
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tantek
great! I've been chatting with him about IWS
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gRegorLove
heading to IWC Bham, brb
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gRegorLove
s/IWC/HWC/
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gRegorLove
Hello from HWC Bham. Justin and myself here so far.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "This Week in Google 409: Practical Telepathy" by TWiT on 2017-06-14 https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-google/episodes/409
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tantek
whoa Swarm UI update
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tantek
four of us here at HWC SF already!
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[kevinmarks]
Who's there tonight?
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tantek
[kevinmarks]: j12t, stacey, jake
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ben_thatmustbeme
[kevinmarks]: how did twig go? didn't get a chance to listen yet
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[sdepolo]
Hey kevinmarks been a while. You going to indieweb summit?
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[kevinmarks]
No, but I'll try to remote attend for some of it
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tantek
we're talking h-event maturing to spec
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tantek
and net neutrality protests coming up
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tantek
biggest thing is that IndieWebSummit is coming up
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tantek
less that 10 tickets left for IWS per the website!
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aaronpk
i reconciled the indie RSVPs with tito registrations and added anyone to tito who hadn't registered themselves!
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tantek
lol I'm still duped on the RSVPs :)
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aaronpk
you sent two RSVPs is why
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] co-organizing IndieWeb Summit 2017-06-24…25 @MozPDX! Welcome @benwerd; <25 spots left! RSVP: https://2017.indieweb.org/
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tantek
right! I wanted to test that!
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tantek
but I am just one person
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aaronpk
i can dedupe on author URL
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tantek
I mean, de-duping RSVPs is an interesting use-case
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aaronpk
but we're gonna have to define the security requirements of this kind of stuff asap
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tantek
different from comments
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tantek
though perhaps similar to likes?
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tantek
if I post two like posts of the same thing, does it get counted as two likes?
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aaronpk
i'd say it depends on whether the timestamp of the likes are displayed
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aaronpk
it's potentially interesting if someone liked a post a year later
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tantek
liked it again?
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tantek
reposted sure
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aaronpk
reposted definitely
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tantek
maybe depends on the presentation of the /likes ?
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gRegorLove
Hey, I've seen people comment that they love something so much they wish they could like it again.
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aaronpk
on the indieweb, you can like posts as much as you want
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gRegorLove
Or "I regret that I have but one upvote to give" on reddit
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tantek
lololol
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tantek
now we're discussing Nest vs Raspberry pi
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tantek
as a metaphor for many things
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tantek
indieweb related and such
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tantek
"out of the box" experience vs. privacy, liberty, etc.
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tantek
talking about cloud models being fundamentally flawed (not in the user's interest) due to their bias towards centralization, e.g. company consolidation
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tantek
j12t is floating interesting open source licensing variants like "GPL for individuals"
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tantek
and I just said: "architecture is politics"
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tantek
regarding cloud etc.
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tantek
and sdepolo just successfully RSVP after the fact to the wiki https://indieweb.org/events/2017-06-14-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco
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aaronpk
whoa, why haven't i ever thought about adding text to my food/drink posts before
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GWG
aaronpk: What have you done now?
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aaronpk
i didn't even have to write any code for this to work
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tantek
whoa safe travels!
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aaronpk
still can't believe i'm going to amsterdam and back before IWS
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aaronpk
sure wish i had a logo for micropub right now
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mblaney
once I've liked something in my reader, it gets highlighted and also changed from a web action to a link to the permalink.... so I can't like things twice ;-)
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mblaney
(technically I could, but made it harder for myself!)
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