#indieweb 2017-07-25

2017-07-25 UTC
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@falcon_autotech Visit us at the #IWS2017, 27-28-29 JULY 2017, Place: Hall 9, Stall A-26, Pragati Maidan For Visitor passes visit:… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889702794046849025 (twitter.com/_/status/889702794046849025)
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@falcon_autotech Visit us at the #IWS2017, 27-28-29 JULY 2017, Place: Hall 9, Stall A-26, Pragati Maidan For Visitor passes visit:… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889703753984520192 (twitter.com/_/status/889703753984520192)
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TheGillies how does indieweb feel about RDFa? is microformats a replacement or is the community neutral?
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aaronpk We've had better luck getting things to interoperate with microformats, but of course you can do whatever you want on your site. I know there's several people who have various combinations of the different kinds of markup on their pages, the nice thing is they don't conflict with each other.
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aaronpk all the fun cross site commenting and other interactions are being done with microformats tho
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@Efftronics_Ltd To days to go for India Warehousing Show 2017 India's Leading Warehousing & Logistics Event #IMHLS #IWS2017… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889750701479415809 (twitter.com/_/status/889750701479415809)
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Ruxton TheGillies: I use a combination of both, because schema.org has models for things like Music and Products
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[kevinmarks] @thegillies I did a comparison http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Microformats 2 and Schema 2015-06-30
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Ruxton kevinmarks: nce!
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[kevinmarks] If you want to start documenting music and products in more detail, the microformats wiki is there. Have a read of http://microformats.org/wiki/process
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Loqi The microformats process
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Ruxton I know, it really just boils down to available time vs. getting things done
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Ruxton though now I've seen your vendor extension use of schema i might switch to that
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sl007 hello again
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Loqi sl007: tantek left you a message 4 days, 18 hours ago: what is the use-case for bringing back h-news? What consuming use-cases are there for all those properties?
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[kevinmarks] I'm sure you will find that schema has an excessive number of properties (their inheritance model pretty much guarantees that). Document which ones that you actually use.
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cweiske aaronpk, could you run the init script on chat.indieweb.org so that the "previous day" links work for the new channels?
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cweiske refresh-first.php
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Ruxton :O just realised leo laporte is using OwnYourGram
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Ruxton and running on Known, cool
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sl007 [kevinmarks] what I would need to express - e.g. for an h-article is what is headline, lead, body copy/run, byline and kicker to allow consumers to maintain this structure for visual representation. Now I found the discussion http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html - is that the way to go? (h-schema or p-schema)
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Microformats 2 and Schema 2015-06-30
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Date: 2017-07-25 19:21 Tags: Writing #Testing Web Mentions on Blot I’ve setup an experimental blog on Blot.im, which uses Markdown files in a Dropbox folder to construct a website1. I really like the simplicity of Blot.im, and am tempted to switch over from WordPress for my primary blog. The simplicity is wonderful, but the real […]" by Des on 2017-07-25 http://www.desparoz.com/2017/07/25/9015/
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Zegnat Ruxton wouldn’t surprise me if kevinmarks had something to do with that
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[kevinmarks] Yes, we got leo set up with known a while back - there's a show with Ben and Erin on talking about it too
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[kevinmarks] I think bear migrated it to a self-hosted instance
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prtksxna Zegnat, sorry to bother you with something trivial, but I suck at timezones - https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-26-homebrew-website-club#Virtual_European_Time is at https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?qm=1&lid=1275339,312&h=312&date=2017-7-26&sln=17.5-19.5 right?
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Zegnat prtksxna looks right, yes! https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=15:30+UTC+to+Mumbai+time
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prtksxna Thanks Zegnat!
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Zegnat Will you be joining us, prtksxna?
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prtksxna I want to, not sure about my schedule yet. Might have a work meeting.
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prtksxna Which is why I haven't edited the wiki.
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Zegnat Feel free to just show interest on the wiki, even if not sure yet, e.g. as jeremycherfas did here: https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-12-homebrew-website-club#Virtual_European_Time
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Zegnat That’s also why you can RSVP “maybe” and not just yes and no ;) Still important for organisers to know there is interest
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dextradol92 heyyyy
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sl007 Zegnat - seen the posters ?, would expose them later on photo paper ;) Q: How would you specify what I wrote in last post (properties which are meaningful to e.g. journalists but which are not available in mf - schema.org?) !tell sebsel sent mail
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Zegnat Sorry, haven’t had time to check out the latest posters yet, sorry sl007
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Zegnat I can take a look right now while having lunch
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Zegnat Re: journalist properties on writing, I am still not sure how I would apply those in microformats, or why I would want them parsable.
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Zegnat E.g. for byline you can just use current author markup. The author h-cards can have things like nested org h-cards if you need to specify what news agency someone works for, you can also use properties like role or job-title to specify writer/photographer
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Zegnat Those are all existing mf properties
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sebsel sl007 !tell only works when you start your message with it :)
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sebsel checks mail
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Zegnat !tell sl007 I had another look and filed 2 issues. Other than that I really like the work you have been putting in on this! The Microformats poster is a bit heavy on code examples IMHO, but that’s not a problem so no issue for that either.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sl007 Zegnat - the thing is that I disagree with "indielogin" as just an "implementation detail" covering both RelMe and IndieAuth. I would say "Web Sign-In" is for "Indielogin" what "Publish" is for "Micropub" or "Subscribe" for "Websub" - the first is a mechanism and the second a ‘brand’
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Loqi sl007: Zegnat left you a message 7 minutes ago: I had another look and filed 2 issues. Other than that I really like the work you have been putting in on this! The Microformats poster is a bit heavy on code examples IMHO, but that’s not a problem so no issue for that either.
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sl007 agreed to the other one …
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Zegnat My issues is that the IndieAuth poster currently describes RelMeAuth and not IndieAuth (except for the mention of token endpoint and the introduction saying you don’t need silos). Can be solved in multiple ways: change the content to be IndieAuth only (not useful as that drops rel-me which is the most used login system at the moment), change title
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Zegnat to RelMeAuth and rewrite the first introduction paragraph, or change title to Web Sign-in and include both IndieAuth and RelMeAuth.
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prtksxna Zegnat: Done
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Zegnat Nice prtksxna, hope to talk to you tomorrow then! :D
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prtksxna I hope so too
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sebsel Well, if the name of the protocol changes, one could say that IndieAuth is a combination of Web Sign-in via RelMeAuth and $newProtocolName
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sebsel But then we get into the renaming discussion again. My point is: until we have an answer from that discussion, we can use IndieAuth for all these things, because it is already used for all these things anyway.
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Zegnat We have the answer…
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sebsel That keeps 'how do we name it' and 'what can I use NOW' separate.
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sebsel Oh, what is the answer?
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sl007 Zegnat instead of "change title to Web Sign-in and include both IndieAuth and RelMeAuth." I would avoid the title "Web Sign-in" because it is to broad / to generic and not describing a brand for the user but a mechanism. See https://duckduckgo.com/?q=web+sign+in&t=h_&ia=web vs https://duckduckgo.com/?q=websub&t=h_&ia=web
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Zegnat https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2017-07-19/1500481059573000 & https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2017-07-19/1500481422110000
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Loqi [aaronpk] alright i'm calling it: indielogin.com is now registered
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Zegnat web sign-in is supposed to be broad though, and basically means “logging in using a URL”
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sebsel http://indieweb.org/indieauth#naming_confusion has nothing, so we should update that.
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Zegnat sebsel, those two chat links are the answer IMHO. IndieAuth.com will get renamed as per that chat. Unless aaronpk changes his mind.
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Zegnat Yeah … should update that, give me a minute
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sl007 I would make the *title* "IndieLogin" and desribe it as a way of Web Sign-In covering "RelMe Auth" and "IndieAuth"
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sl007 ?
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sebsel what is indielogin.com?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indielogin.com" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel indielogin.com is a service that developers use to log users in to a website. you create a web sign-in form that asks for their domain, and it directs people to indielogin.com to authenticate. users can authenticate by linking to Twitter/GitHub/email address/PGP key, and then they are asked to authenticate at one of those when signing in.
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Loqi ok
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sebsel :P
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Zegnat But nobody is using the name IndieLogin for anything. IndieLogin will be a separate service run by aaronpk, not a standard, sl007. Putting that on a poster is bound to confuse people
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sebsel So, even after the rename, it keeps being confusing?
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Zegnat It is not confusing to me. But it will be confusing if sl007 puts “IndieLogin” on a poster
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sebsel I guess the chat-lines you gave solve https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/138, but not http://indieweb.org/indieauth#naming_confusion
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Loqi [aaronpk] #138 Rename the project
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sebsel sl007 You can always add '.com' behind it, and explain how the service works.
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sknebel sebsel: well, it also clarifies that the protocol won't be renamed
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sebsel Only problem with that: indielogin.com says "Welcome to nginx!" at the moment. aaronpk should move before Dortmund then.
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Zegnat I haven’t commented on the github repo issues sebsel, don’t know how aaronpk plans to resolve those
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Zegnat That’s up to him.
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Zegnat I have added the rename information with links to chat to the #naming_confusion
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sebsel sknebel I don't see how renaming IndieAuth.com to IndieLogin.com automatically means the protocol won't be renamed. I mean, that could mean it, but it's not automatically.
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sknebel sebsel: quote: " Aaron Parecki: This is a great point, and convinces me the name of the spec is fine. "
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Zegnat I was just about to quote that
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sknebel (I generally assume that in this case aaron being convinced of something means with very high likelyhood thats how it's going to be, since he is the "authority" in this case)
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sebsel Ah, and that comes from the Wiki, not the Chatlogs.
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sknebel oh, sorry, wasn't clear, yes
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sebsel I am just hoping that renaming indieauth.com to indielogin.com and keeping the protocol name is going to solve the naming confusion.
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sebsel But I guess the rest is also education.
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sknebel sebsel: yep. at least I don't think any other path would be more likely to solve it
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voxpelli Then it will at least be possible to educate, now it's rather hard, as both things really have same name
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petermolnar indieauth.com + indieauth.org
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petermolnar there are countless things doing that, implementation/service on .com, open source/community on .org
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sebsel and .net for the discription of the protocol :P
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petermolnar :D
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sebsel Webmention has .io for the service, though.
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petermolnar checking webmention.com lands on PHP error dump o.O
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Loqi [superfeedr] "100 words 046" by Dominik Schwind on 2015-07-23 https://medium.com/100-days-100-words/100-words-046-373116998b39?source=rss----97fd98c03e59---4
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aaronpk Good morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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[aaronpk] The .com / .org thing makes sense for wordpress where it's a single product offered as a service vs open source but I think doesn't work so wel for a spec and an implementation of the spec
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[aaronpk] When is IndieWebCamp Dortmund?
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Loqi what
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sknebel [aaronpk]: 8/9 of september
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Missing the point Medium at $5 per month" by Keith Parkins on 2017-04-01 https://medium.com/medium-collection/missing-the-point-medium-at-5-per-month-afb2ace8a54c?source=rss----5dc6768ce96a---4
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[aaronpk] I think I can have indielogin.com up by then
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[chrisaldrich] catches up on logs since last night....
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[chrisaldrich] I almost did a spit-take when I read Loqi's superfeedr post about @falcon_autotech doing an IWS, and thought for a second that tantek was moving indieweb into the automotive space....
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tantek wat
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petermolnar [chrisaldrich] you know, that's not even _that_ crazy idea, cars would make a nice mesh network
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[chrisaldrich] tantek: for easy reference https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-25#t1500956651972000
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tantek lol # IWS2017 collision
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tantek sees TheGillies RDFa question and aaronpk vs microformats - probably better for #indieweb-dev
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@seagl #cfpideas Free your data using #indieweb tools. http://seagl.org/news/2017/06/19/CFP-open.html (twitter.com/_/status/889876930702561280)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Do Facebook Instant Articles Support The Open Web… or Facebook’s Walled Garden?" by Dan York on 2016-02-29 https://medium.com/disruptive-conversations/do-facebook-instant-articles-support-the-open-web-or-facebook-s-walled-garden-a9abe0ba43ee?source=rss----27b693746508---4
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@voxpelli @manton2 Did some brainstorming with some others in the IndieWeb chat to come up with suggestions for Markdown supp… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889884389445971968 (twitter.com/_/status/889884389445971968)
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@happyfanfare Furthering the decentralized goals of the #IndieWeb — Perch Blog 5.6 now receives and sends web mentions. Also:… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889885671544033280 (twitter.com/_/status/889885671544033280)
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@happyfanfare Furthering the decentralized goals of the #IndieWeb — Perch Blog 5.6 now receives and sends webmentions. Also:… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889886784393326594 (twitter.com/_/status/889886784393326594)
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aaronpk again has a case where he needs to send someone some private info and wants to send a link with a password instead of sending via email
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aaronpk i've seen some services that do this, is there a name for this feature?
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gRegorLove Do you mean the password is part of the link? One-time password?
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aaronpk i think i'd rather it not be part of the link
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aaronpk requiring that a person type it in
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aaronpk heh, like this: https://onetimesecret.com/
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gRegorLove Heh, this wasn't what I was expecting...
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gRegorLove what is otp?
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Loqi otp (or OTP) is an acronym for on the phone which you might see appended with an underscore separator on an IRC nickname to indicate that their attention is currently divided (preoccupied) with a phone call and they might not respond to queries in IRC https://indieweb.org/otp
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aaronpk i want basically that feature but as part of my posts
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aaronpk (and not necessarily a one-time viewable thing, maybe set to a time limit)
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voxpelli aaronpk: you can't use Keybase?
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aaronpk voxpelli: lol, somehow i doubt the person at the other end will be able to make that work
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gRegorLove Short-term password maybe
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aaronpk i got an email asking for my bank account info to be sent back in an email
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aaronpk for updating my direct deposit info
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aaronpk so... i doubt the payroll person will be able to install keybase
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gRegorLove Seems they should know better than to request stuff like that by email
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aaronpk you'd think so
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gRegorLove Fax? :)
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[jeremycherfas] I saw a Tedtalk about that, some years ago, I think by the woman who started Zipcar.
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[miklb] private post and give them a temp password on your site?
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aaronpk yeah i'm really tempted to do that. I don't have temporary passwords on my site yet
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[miklb] Someone recently asked me for my SS# in an email
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[miklb] I mailed them my w-9
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tantek is trying to get the indieweb context around this one-time-secret stuff
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aaronpk private posts
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Zegnat or even private messaging
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Zegnat Kongaloosh are you doing HWC today? :)
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aaronpk well i installed that app to test it out. I like the feature, kinda want to implement it on my posts now.
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sebsel !tell sl007 See https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2017-07-25#t1501007104600000 for some other ideas about Day 2 of Dortmund!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [sebsel] sl007 and I just met and talked about /2017/Dortmund :)
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sebsel Another thing: I was trying to checkin to Swarm with the text "IWC Dortmund preparations — with +sebastianlasse.de", so that it would look like a person-tag on Swarm. My weblog actually replaces +url with the name on the h-card.
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sebsel But Swarm deleted the part after the dash!
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sebsel So I cannot textually person-tag someone who is not on Swarm.
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sebsel I edited my own site afterwards.
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sebsel (I've been doing it with the Dutch "— met Name", and that worked before, so they actively (?) block it in English)
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aaronpk oh funny. i bet that's because their person-tagging implementation is based on plaintext!
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aaronpk when you tag someone in a checkin they include the "- with X" in the checkin text
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sebsel yeah, I was mimicing that.
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aaronpk pretty funny that it happens the other way around too
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sebsel I think it's actually just to prevent errors indeed
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sebsel not "your friends should be on Swarm before you can check them in!"
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sebsel Yet another thing: do we have anything on discoverability? /discovery is now about determining authorship and stuff, but not about discovering new people
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sebsel what is who to follow?
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Loqi who to follow is a feature on a site that suggests people or other accounts to follow, likely using a recommendation engine https://indieweb.org/who_to_follow
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sebsel Ah, look
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sebsel I think that's interesting for gen2.
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sebsel (we'll see if that's the case in Dortmund, but it might be a topic)
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sebsel what is discoverability?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "discoverability" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel Discoverability is about finding new people to follow, and getting other people to follow you.
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Loqi ok
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sebsel discoverability << [[who to follow]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[who to follow]]" to the "See Also" section of /Discoverability
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sebsel discoverability << [[recommendation engine]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[recommendation engine]]" to the "See Also" section of /Discoverability
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Τα δικαιώματα των χρηστών στην εποχή του Web 2.0" by P.Stathopoulos on 2014-07-22 https://medium.com/golden-cages/web-2-0-c744a08777b4?source=rss----72fbc5823669---4
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@ricmac This historic first meeting is happening later today in Wellington. Local #IndieWeb fans, do come along. https://twitter.com/treitnauer/status/876980277104463872 (twitter.com/_/status/889929328699392000)
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tantek notes that it's already Wednesday in Wellington
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Zegnat wonders if we can have HWC on two separate days, at the same time, abusing the dateline
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tantek eagerly awaits when the sun never sets on HWC
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sknebel Portland and Wellington are like 20 hours apart? could work
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tantek skenebel, more like Wellington to Edmonton first I think
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sknebel edmonton is one hour less
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tantek so Edmonton starts tonight an hour before Wellington starts tomorrow?
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sknebel the distance is one hour less, portland is closer to the dateline
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sknebel and it's 19h difference, not 20
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Zegnat yeah, but Edmonton is on Tuesday and not Wednesday, sknebel
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@xtof_party D2 Après l'échec #100DaysOfPhotos, ravi de signer un engagement pour #100DaysOfCode. Roadmap : #indieweb +… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889938388660482048 (twitter.com/_/status/889938388660482048)
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sknebel ah, right
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@ChrisAldrich ? A Domain of One's Own in a Post-Ownership Society | Hack Education #indieweb http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/24/a-domain-of-ones-own-in-a-post-ownership-society-hack-education/ (twitter.com/_/status/889942277703028737)
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@aaronpk @siliconflorist @matto "indie RSVP": they posted on their website saying they were coming. See all the links here https://2017.indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/889972802631081984)
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aaronpk (my twitter threading is not great)
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