#indieweb 2017-07-29

2017-07-29 UTC
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@miklb @Konzertheld you can always pop into #indieweb on IRC. Don’t know anyone using Pelican, but plenty of static sites doing webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/891095633473536000)
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[miklb] ^ another fellow Habari alumni
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@ScalaWilliam @laowhy86 might want to consider having your own website. #indieweb https://indieweb.org/POSSE more control, less nonsense. (twitter.com/_/status/891104975262056449)
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@ScalaWilliam I'll pay $35 to migrate one article from Medium to own site. More info: http://work.scalawilliam.com/migrate-jmx-article/ #html #freelance #indieweb @Git_Work (twitter.com/_/status/891132715516346368)
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ScalaWilliam this bot is rather useful.
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@EmreSokullu An Introduction to the IndieWeb http://altplatform.org/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/891155692827967490)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Introduction to the IndieWeb" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-07-28 http://altplatform.org/2017/07/28/an-introduction-to-the-indieweb/
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[jeremycherfas] @thegillies I agree that Known is easy and well equipped, but it to has things that Just Don't Work.
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@xtof_party D6 #100DaysOfCode travaux matinaux au pied de la pente-école. Premiers pas pour indiewebifier @GoHugoIO… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/891197062741733376 (twitter.com/_/status/891197062741733376)
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@sl007 @aktuelle_stunde @DerBug Hab ich Stromausfall, tu ich Facebook ? Ein Witz. Einladung https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund ? beim CAMPFIRE Festival ... (twitter.com/_/status/891217753188835328)
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sl007 Morning everyone. Yesterday german public broadcaster wdr went off due to power blackout, they streamed on Facebook then. I guess everything is lost.
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Loqi sl007: sebsel left you a message 3 days, 14 hours ago: See https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2017-07-25#t1501007104600000 for some other ideas about Day 2 of Dortmund!
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb! Happy Weekend! :D
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Zegnat sl007, the NOS has done several live broadcasts on Facebook as well
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@sonniesedge @jensimmons Going through this process myself, but going from static site to something more #indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/891221149404868609)
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sl007 Zegnat - but not as the only option, right ?
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@rachelandrew @sonniesedge @jensimmons We’re on a mission to add lots of Indieweb stuff to Perch - started with Webmention. (twitter.com/_/status/891221441596841984)
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Zegnat sl007, I am trying to remember … I feel like they may have had live-Q&As and things like that limited to Facebook, but hard to say
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sl007 Zegnat - the thing here is that it was the main news block *only* on FB and it is totally against the law ….
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Zegnat I am assuming it will also be available on their website once the website is no longer offline though?
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Zegnat But news broadcasters really need to work on their fallbacks. I remember how long the NOS was down when their HQ (Hilversum) was under threat of attack, they really weren’t prepared to switch to their emergency set-up (The Hague, I believe). Which means they wouldn’t have been ready in case of a war/natural disaster/any other thing where these back
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Zegnat ups exist for.
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Zegnat What is backup?
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Loqi A backup of an indieweb site should have everything necessary to redeploy it on a new webhost https://indieweb.org/backup
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Zegnat What is fallback?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fallback" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sl007 Yes regarding the NOS attack technically agreed although the staff acted incredibly calm and had a perfect "fallback", background https://plus.google.com/+SebastianLasse/posts/GmBzGEpQzHH
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@kevinmarks This gets a lot of the problem right, but proposes corporate answers not an #indieweb response https://www.wired.com/story/our-minds-have-been-hijacked-by-our-phones-tristan-harris-wants-to-rescue-them/amp (twitter.com/_/status/891226884616331265)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "This gets a lot of the problem right, but proposes corporate answers not an #indieweb response https://www.wired.com/story/our-minds-have-been-hijacked-by-our-phones-tristan-harris-wants-to-rescue-them/amp" by Kevin Marks on 2017-07-29 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/this-gets-a-lot-of-the-problem-right-but-proposes
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Zegnat sl007, I “live blogged” that happening. I should get that stream out of the silo it is on and onto my blog. It felt a lot more tense than how you describe it there
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam what will you do if someone does not react to your change requests on a PR? When does a “job” open up for someone else to pick up?
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Zegnat accessibility << https://www.nngroup.com/articles/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.nngroup.com/articles/" to the "See Also" section of /accessibility
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Zegnat accessibility << https://inclusive-components.design/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://inclusive-components.design/" to the "See Also" section of /accessibility
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ScalaWilliam @Zegnat very good question. First, do you have a suggestion of how to do this?
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ScalaWilliam @Zegnat: Second, this is part of a broader locking problem. It appears that everyone starts working without confirmation, and cause of that I can't lock. This then leads to GitHub being an inflexible silo and needing a proper replacement :-)
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam, I don’t really have any ideas. It was just something I through of when seeing your link in the chat backlog this morning.
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Zegnat I.e. I saw someone had taken up the job, I see you ask them to make sure they add microformats. I am like “well, I could add microformats, but someone else is already on it”.
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ScalaWilliam ah that. I can separate it into another Work Issue to be frank.
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ScalaWilliam maybe there was too much scope.
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dgold TheGillies: that isn't *easy*, installing known on your own server isn't easy.
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dgold installing plugins isn't easy - its easier than writing your own, but you can't say that its a simple process
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ScalaWilliam @Zegnat since the homepage is probably the most important bit, and lacks microformats, can you make an issue with your suggestions for the homepage? That's $5 for creating proper scope & then I'll see how much I can pay for it. More info here -> http://work.scalawilliam.com/rules/
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Loqi Rules
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Zegnat !mf2 https://www.scalawilliam.com/
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scalawilliam.com%2F
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam, I filed two issues on your website’s GitHub to give you an idea of how I would handle adding some microformats.
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Zegnat I also do not require $5 for filing issues pertaining to indieweb tech ;)
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ScalaWilliam ok ;)
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam: indiewebify all the things! Hahaha
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Loqi rofl
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ScalaWilliam yes!
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ScalaWilliam looking at tantek.com, I can see an h-card within another h-card
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Zegnat !mf2 http://tantek.com
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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Zegnat Yep, he marked organisations (children of his main h-card) up with their own h-cards
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@ScalaWilliam $15 for migrating an article from Medium: http://work.scalawilliam.com/migrate-opportunity-article/ #indieweb #html #freelance (twitter.com/_/status/891268807821369345)
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@ScalaWilliam $10 for marking up a page with some #indieweb #microformats Detail: http://work.scalawilliam.com/markup-list-of-articles-with-h-feed/ @Git_work #freelance (twitter.com/_/status/891270521349742594)
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Zegnat spends his lunch wondering how he would do h-card on scalawilliam.com
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ScalaWilliam : D
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Zegnat Mostly puzzling with your template system. I would recommend including the email address in the h-card on the homepage and use the existing header stuff too. But the existing header stuff is included on all pages and the email address isn’t part of that same template file.
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Zegnat Interesting challenge
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ScalaWilliam Yep. I'd include the e-mail in header & add display:none to it - & create a separate issue to add a visible e-mail icon to the header.
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ScalaWilliam but adding a h-card for the whole page makes sense too.
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ScalaWilliam I'm out for >30m
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Zegnat I am having lunch. I might PR the h-feed though, depending on time
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sl007 ScalaWiliam this is what it could look like when you've got org h-cards within your h-card https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phy1m4d46G4&t=2570s
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Zegnat Wow, I keep running into sites today that only display relative time and no full date stamp
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Zegnat “Updated 8w ago” … OK, now tell me when that was.
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[kevinmarks] Wrapping it in a <time> is good practice.
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Zegnat Yes, but silos aren’t doing that always, [kevinmarks]. Which then makes it impossible to get the proper value out of it.
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Zegnat Ran into this problem on sublevel.com and on quora.com
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam, hope you are proud, you have made me file an issue on the mf2 parsing spec :P
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dgold i'm bumping off an established problem - the p-name of a 'note' post
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dgold the 'simplest' solutions isn't working - per jeremy's post referring to my reply-to his post, the p-name as == p-content means that the p-content is being posted twice
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dgold my notes use the unux epoch date of the post as a determinant of their url; would that be acceptable as a p-name for a 'note'?
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Zegnat dgold what do you mean by “posted twice”?
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Zegnat The p-name on same container as p-content (or e-content) has been a long standing practice.
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Zegnat Are you talking about https://ascraeus.org/micro/1501178407/ dgold? The name and content property are different on that post though. Unless you changed the markup already.
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Loqi replying to a post on www.jeremycherfas.net Is the #Indieweb easy? No, it isn’t. Is it hard? That depends on what you mean by hard. ...
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dgold Zegnat: when that went through to jeremy's site as a mention, the content was posted twice
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dgold http://tinyurl.com/y9vaajc4 [ https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/not-giving-up-on-indieweb ]
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] Not giving up on IndieWeb
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dgold I'm working on the author name stuff not coming through, that's my messup, but the content twice thing seems to be related to p-name == e-content
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Zegnat It shouldn’t be. If it is, that’s a bug for voxpelli to look into
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Zegnat AAh, dgold, the problem is that p-name and e-content are *not* the same there
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Zegnat p-name includes “replying to a post on www.jeremycherfas.net”, e-content does not
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Zegnat Therefor the webmention receiver thinks there is a separate name and post content
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dgold aaaaaahhhhhhhh
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dgold hmmm
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Zegnat If you put the p-name class on the same element as your e-content that should be fixed
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Zegnat (And, if voxpelli’s service supports update webmentions, you can then just resend the mention and it’ll be fixed on jeremycherfas’ site)
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dgold I was so thrilled to get the 'replying to...' working, I forgot that it would change things around
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ScalaWilliam oh nice @Zegnat, where did you post this issue?
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dgold Zegnat: so, i should explicitly mark out the p-name on the e-content?
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam: https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/10
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Loqi [Zegnat] #10 When should u- values be normalised to absolute URLs?
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Zegnat dgold: yes. Because implicit name properties will contain the full content of the h-entry (thus including things like “reply to” headers and publication date footers)
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Zegnat s/implicit/implied/
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Zegnat is happy to be inside on a rainy Saturday and dig through other people’s microformats for a bit :D
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Zegnat Hi calumryan!
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Zegnat !tell calumryan I was about to ask you about the London venue for the newly created HWC pages, but I see you already added it yourself :) Is that venue fine to be copied over to future pages as well?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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calumryan Hey good afternoon Zegnat
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calumryan Zegnat: London venue should be TBC for future, it’s kindly provided through barryf so dependent on when he is available to host
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Zegnat Alright, thanks for the info!
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dgold thanks zegnat
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dgold zegnat++ for making this explicitly clear
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Loqi zegnat has 73 karma in this channel (124 overall)
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ScalaWilliam @sl007 thanks for the h-card link.
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Zegnat dgold, I am always happy to help. I think that is the strength of the IndieWeb for getting people onboard: no dumb questions, try to answer everyone!
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dgold there; thanks to your comments, I pushed a fix for the theme.
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Zegnat Any github link? I would love to take a look how you fixed it
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ScalaWilliam signing off for the night. Need sleep.
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ScalaWilliam thanks @Zegnat !
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dgold http://tinyurl.com/yb8j67cx [ https://github.com/dg01d/reproach ]
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dgold all recent changes are on the indieweb branch
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dgold I really should merge those into master
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@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for July 22nd - 28th, 2017. https://martymcgui.re/2017/07/29/111935/ (twitter.com/_/status/891317786798157826)
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • July 22nd - 28th, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/421028 (twitter.com/_/status/891319015754407937)
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schmarty Good morning, IndieWeb!
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schmarty Have a podcast :}
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[miklb] ¡Buenos días!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked Chris Aldrich's An Introduction to the IndieWeb" by Michael Runcieman on 2017-07-29 http://michael.runcieman.com/2017/liked-chris-aldrichs-an-introduction-to-the-indieweb-4ca8825b6a
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[miklb] anyone know of a micropub client that has syndicate-to for likes?
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KartikPrabhu [miklb]: I thought syndicate-to does not depend on the post-type
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[miklb] well, for instance Quill doesn’t have option to syndicate on likes
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KartikPrabhu hmm that's odd.because the micropub client does not do the syndication directly. It tells your server that you want to syndicate
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[miklb] it’s a UI thing mostly
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KartikPrabhu yeah, I wonder why aaronpk decided not to have syndication UI for likes
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[miklb] I recall discussing it with him, don’t remember the decision. Said it was possibly something he’d add in future.
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[miklb] I mostly want it so I can star GitHub repos
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[kevinmarks] calumryan Martin offered the seed media office too
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[miklb] I wonder if I could hack a bookmarklet
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[eddie] miklb: what syndication service allows you to star github repos? Or is it a Wordpress thing?
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[miklb] Silo.pub eddie
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[eddie] Ohhh good to know.... I would like to star GitHub repos ??
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[miklb] Also can reply & start GH issues, though I haven’t tried that yet
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[eddie] I've used bridge publish but not silo.pub so I'll have to take a look
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[miklb] Suppose I should do I know can star
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[miklb] S/do/to
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[eddie] I am planning to add syndication to liking in Indigenous but it might happen via Micropub update rather than Micropub create... I know that's not widely used though ? unless I just added a built in delay, maybe I'll do that, then you could add tags and syndication into the create option rather than the update
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[miklb] hmm. replying to an issue with syndication-to didn’t seem to work.
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[miklb] I wonder if because I have u-in-reply-to instead of just in-reply-to?
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sknebel [miklb]: in a page or in a micropub request?
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KartikPrabhu u-in-reply-to is the microformat, not in-reply-to. unless silo.pub looks for rel-in-reply-to which is the old way
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[miklb] well, I have a syndicate-to endpoint for silo.pub GH, and the note it creates on my site with u-in-reply-to
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[miklb] https://silo.pub/developers#vocab-github
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[miklb] docs only mention in-reply-to
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[miklb] I could be completely misunderstanding the whole process
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KartikPrabhu [miklb]: silo.pub is looking for the equivalent of the parsed microormat which is in-reply-to
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KartikPrabhu so your HTML markup will have u-in-reply-to but the API call to silo.pub will have in-reply-to
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[miklb] so I’m not sure how to debug that. I believe my markup is fine.
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sknebel [miklb]: the markup isn't involved, what matters is the request you sent to the silo.pub endpoint
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sknebel (the markup on the sitE)
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[miklb] it’s coming from Quill…
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KartikPrabhu Quill should not give you a "u-in-reply-to" anyway (I think)
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KartikPrabhu https://indieweb.org/Micropub#New_Reply
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[miklb] sorry, u-in-reply-to is on the note created.
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KartikPrabhu [miklb]: right, that is HTML markup on your site. But silo.pub will use the micropub API syntax which does not have the "u" i.e. it is like the parsed microformat
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sknebel also, it's your micropub endpoint calling silo.pub when you use syndicate-to, not Quill
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[miklb] ok, too confusing for me. scraping that idea for a while. Thanks for everyone’s help trying to explain.
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sknebel sounds like the issue might be wordpress specific or at least involves knowledge about how the WP plugins to do stuff, so sadly I have no idea about the details
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GWG Did someone say WordPress?
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[miklb] I was trying to use silo.pub as a syndicate-to endpoint for GitHub using Quill and I’m failing.
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GWG [miklb]: You'd need to add it as a target.
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[miklb] yes, it shows up in Quill
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[miklb] but it doesn’t make it to GH
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[miklb] I don’t know where to look for an error. I don’t see anything in my nginx error log related to it
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[miklb] https://silo.pub/micropub?access_token=my-token-for-github
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[miklb] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[miklb] oh, I know what it might be. The in-reply-to url isn’t being added to the post from micropub. Would need to manually mark it up until post-kinds auto-retrieves
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[miklb] looks like it’s an issue with my template. mea culpa
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[miklb] what is a reply
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Loqi A reply (or comment) is a kind of post that is a text (typically, though photos are possible too) response to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indieweb.org/reply
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@sonniesedge @jensimmons Many in #indieweb are using static sites for it. Which are you on? http://indieweb.org/static-site" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-07-29 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/sonniesedge-jensimmons-many-in-indieweb-are-using-static-sites-for
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@ChrisAldrich @sonniesedge @jensimmons Many in #indieweb are using static sites for it. Which are you on? http://indieweb.org/static-site (twitter.com/_/status/891383584791179264)
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jkphl hello indieweb!
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sknebel hi jkphl!
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jkphl i'm currently trying to pick up the idea we had during leaders summit and organize another one right before the IWC berlin
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sknebel was about to e-mail you about it ;)
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jkphl i just added a small section to the planning page, asking for people's interest: https://indieweb.org/Planning#Planned
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jkphl would you mind adding yourself in case you're up for it (physically or remotely)?
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jkphl sknebel cool, looking forward to it
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Zegnat I am definitely up for Leaders Summit prior to the IWC.
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Zegnat should also finally get stuff in order so he can attend in person
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jkphl Zegnat great!
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Zegnat Why does uni wait ’til mid-august before ever deciding on how the new schedules are going to be? *sigh*
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sknebel jkphl: added myself, fixed the month from 09 to 11 and added a link to a page to collect discussion topics
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jkphl sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 22 karma in this channel (52 overall)
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[miklb] seems like all of the markup examples are very basic. I’ve yet to see any that utilize u- or p- Is that by design or just nobody has created them?
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[miklb] in the wiki I mean.
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sknebel [miklb]: what do you mean? microformat2 properties always have a prefix in the HTML
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sknebel and all examples on e.g. https://indieweb.org/reply thus do
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[miklb] sknebel, well, they have u-in-reply-to on the href
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sknebel yes. I think I then don't understand what you mean
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[miklb] that’s how I feel. I see a lot of stuff (wordpress plugins/themes) that have the u-in-reply-to on a containing element and u-url on the href.
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sknebel I assume with a nested h-cite then?
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[miklb] yes
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[miklb] I can’t find any markup examples that’s not riddled with code to follow the logic.
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[miklb] what is h-cite
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Loqi h-cite is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up citations and references on web sites https://indieweb.org/h-cite
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sknebel https://indieweb.org/bookmark has an h-cite example
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[miklb] /reply-context seems to have oneI
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[miklb] I stand corrected. Just wasn’t on the reply page that I could see linked.
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sknebel but in short, u-in-reply-to on a h-cite just means "use the url property of the h-cite as the value for in-reply-to"
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sknebel (and in general, the same for any u-... property and any nested microformat)
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sknebel and feel free to add the reply-context example (or a link to it) to where it makes sense to you on /reply
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[miklb] I see the link now much further down the page, just a lot to digest on the main /reply page
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