#indieweb 2017-08-24

2017-08-24 UTC
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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waynr what is taters precious
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waynr what is taters?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "taters" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek hello from HWC SF!
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tantek (quiet writing hour)
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tantek four of us here now in SF, regrets from benwerd and a couple of other folks
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tantek and Grant Richmond makes 5!
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tantek now debugging Grant's indie RSVP: https://grant.codes/2017/08/21/599b405bdc302207421e6c08
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Loqi [Grant Richmond] Is going to an event: http://tantek.com/2017/235/e1/homebrew-website-club ...
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tantek and Megan too
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tantek that's everyone that's RSVPd YES either indie or FB - except benwerd who is a bit under the weather and we are sorry to miss
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tantek Grant came here all the way from Scotland!
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tantek his website is grant.codes
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tantek last thing he fixed is RSVP
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tantek he got RSVPs working with his face now!
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tantek so it shows up as the most recent RSVP here: http://tantek.com/2017/235/e1/homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club SF
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tantek (ed note: and now I need to get my displayed RSVPs linking directly to RSVP permalink URLs!)
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tantek latest thing: https://where.is.grant.codes/
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Loqi Grant Richmond
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tantek shows where he is
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tantek he has an app on his phone that sends mqtt to his site via micropub
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tantek whenever you use a map
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[grantcodes] Tatek added support for "attending event" posts
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tantek Evan up ntext
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tantek he's an electronic music producer
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tantek he is showing his indie site chipperswitch.com
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tantek (aside: the "attending" RSVP that I demo'd http://tantek.com/2017/228/t1/attending-august-yimby-meeting )
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] attending August YIMBY Party Meeting. Talk of SF districts housing developments, city/state proposals. Links: * https://yimbyaction.org/ (@yimbyaction) * http://www.sfyimby.org/ (@SFyimby) * http://yimby.wiki/wiki/Frequently_asked_questions
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tantek he used CSS grid layout to improve the presentation of his site
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tantek really enjoying CSS grid layout. would love to learn more
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tantek (describes a layout challenge he is having)
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tantek next up Emre
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tantek who started BarCamp Istanbul back in the day (over 10 years ago)
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tantek demoing phonetworks.org
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tantek it lets you create "Graph Apps"
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tantek instead of using MVC, it uses remote edge architecture to build social apps
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tantek based on Redis instead of MySQL or other database
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tantek reasoning is that it makes it much faster, but very expensive, because the whole thing is hosted in RAM
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tantek just launched it a few days ago
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tantek instead of MVC, it uses GraphQL, which is a FB invention - an attempt to replace REST APIs
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tantek Emre is http://emresokullu.com/
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Loqi Emre Sokullu
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tantek example code: https://github.com/pho-recipes
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tantek can be used to create APIs similar to existing APIs
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tantek early version of a framework - for developers to build stuff
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tantek purpose is that developers would be able to prototype their apps much more quickly
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tantek maybe even get actual products out
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tantek similar to Parse did
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tantek what was Parse?
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Loqi Parse was a mobile backend as a service company that was acquired by Facebook in 2013, who subsequently shut down the service 2017-01-28, yet Parse still released their software as open source, including SDKs, libraries, and their Parse Server, so you can setup and manage your own mobile backend as a service, which is what you had to do before Parse https://indieweb.org/Parse
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tantek Pho networks is graph based instead of databased based (which is what Parse was)
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tantek (brief conversation about nodes and edges and users and actions, both being entities etc.)
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tantek tantek: has someone built a UI out of this yet?
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tantek emre: not yet.
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tantek tantek: could you make a home page out of this?
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tantek emre: you could
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tantek tantek: take a look at how you could build your own home page doing this!
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tantek s/doing/with
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tantek evan: this is kinda like if you wanted to build your own social media website, this is all the plumbing?
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tantek emre: yeah
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tantek emre: visiting from Sparks, just moved from the bay area
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tantek ben: I need recommendations for an IndieWeb instagram clone like thing. get going locally, then clone it to Instagram
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tantek ben: I keep getting into the nerd trap of building the thing to build the thing, then looking for a library for ... etc.
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tantek grant: I've seen CMSs for profession photographers
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tantek ben: I could just install WordPress
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tantek emre: we're using WordPress on altplatform.org
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tantek ... with plugins for sharing content
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tantek Brian Jesse's github repo
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tantek ben: like where do you put the images?
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tantek ... like 3 MB images? git repo? if you're serving that, you want to scale them down for use-cases etc.
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tantek ... text is way easier to manipulate
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tantek tantek: I have a challenge of writing long blog posts
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tantek ... like this current one I have almost 5600 words
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tantek grant: one guy just posts incremental posts
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tantek welcome EmreSokullu !
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tantek evan: would be cool to see it updated live like a Google Doc!
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tantek ben: that would get me to finish it - knowing that people are seeing it
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EmreSokullu https://github.com/myphotolinks/myphotolinks -- this is the plugin we've just talked about; it's for sharing photos privately using wordpress.
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Loqi [myphotolinks] myphotolinks: WordPress plug-in that emails out auto-login links for private posts, and notifies on email-click
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tantek EmreSokullu++
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Loqi emresokullu has 1 karma
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tantek Grant took a photo of us outside with his real camera and gorillapod tripod
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tantek and we're done for the night here at HWC SF!
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tantek good evening #indieweb
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snarfed hoo boy schmarty has a 1.5MB inline data: image on https://martymcgui.re/2017/08/23/201714/ ?
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] HWC Baltimore 2017-08-23 Wrap-Up
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tantek schmarty++ for https://martymcgui.re/2017/08/19/140447/ great job with new User page intros and the whole podcast!
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Loqi schmarty has 19 karma in this channel (26 overall)
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • August 12th - 18th, 2017
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sl007 moin
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sketchess Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb.
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[pfefferle] good morning
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Loqi good morning
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Zegnat Good morning sl007, sketchess, [pfefferle], & the rest of the IndieWeb :)
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[colinwalker] Howdy folks.
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sketchess welcome welcome
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sknebel good morning [colinwalker]!
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[colinwalker] Hey sknebel. All good?
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sknebel way to much stuff to do right now, other than that yes ;)
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@no_identd @IGHMarketing @C_Randieri Check out @indiewebcamp, this article barely touches on the really important points! (twitter.com/_/status/900650937009700865)
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j4y_funabashi morning all
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb and everyone else who got here early
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j4y_funabashi just got tripped up by the micropub.rocks token endpoint returning json instead of form-encoded, doh!
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schmarty Good morning, IndieWeb!
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j4y_funabashi morning schmarty
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schmarty Thanks for the podcast feedback, tantek! Also thanks snarfed for the heads up on the inline image. Not sure why Quill didn't send it to my media endpoint... :/
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sketchess Hey schmarty. :) Will you ever attend a vHWC?
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schmarty Hey sketchess! I would like to! They are at an awkward time for me, so I will need to do some planning. I will plan to be at the next one.
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sketchess I hope I can make it to the next one then. Tuff working and travel hours. They will cut off one of my ways for sure next HWC week. Would be sad if I miss all the fun.
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sketchess schmarty: By the way. Which of the two voices is your real one? The deep Indieweb voice or the higher pitching one of the other podcasts? I know I am curious. ; P
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schmarty I am typically more high pitched and hyperactive than the IndieWeb podcast voice would indicate :)
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j4y_funabashi what is vhwc
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "vhwc" yet. Would you like to create it?
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j4y_funabashi what is hwc
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club is a bi-weekly meetup of people passionate about or interested in creating, improving, building, designing their own website, in the same structure as the classic Homebrew Computer Club meetings https://indieweb.org/hwc
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sl007 j4y_funabashi it is https://indieweb.org/Virtual_HWC
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j4y_funabashi bah the euro hwc is too early for me to be able to attend :(
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j4y_funabashi thanks sl007
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sl007 When is HWC
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club is a bi-weekly meetup of people passionate about or interested in creating, improving, building, designing their own website, in the same structure as the classic Homebrew Computer Club meetings https://indieweb.org/hwc
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sketchess Don't be sad j4y_funabashi. It is always possible to create an other HWC which is easier to attend.
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sketchess What time zone are you on?
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j4y_funabashi I know, but would like to join my Euro crew. I am in the UK but don't usually get home till around 19:00
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jeremycherfas Sketchess: did your notes from last night get put into the wiki somewhere?
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sketchess I do not know jeremycherfas. But it is saved on the logs, so it can't run away. Do you wanted to add and edit?
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jeremycherfas I didn’t see it in the logs. Have you got a link?
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sketchess I am facing the same problem j4y_funabashi. I was thinking of running another vHWC in between the two weeks spare time.
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sketchess a second jeremy
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sketchess https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2017-08-23 here you go
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sketchess it is marked
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sketchess I always wondered if there would be any interest in little time of a weekend day.
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sketchess It is also possible to run one on the other wednesday which is meant for people who can not attend the earlier ones.
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sketchess So it would make two chances to share thoughts.
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sketchess or a other day
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sketchess Do you have any suggestions of your own j4y_funabashi?
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sketchess Are you beginner or advanced?
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sketchess Hmm. Expanding the vHWC is also an option. Making it two rounds might be work. An early and a late session. So many possibilities imaginable.
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sketchess Do you have any thoughts on this Zegnat?
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j4y_funabashi yeah, the day is fine for me, it is just the time that is an issue for me
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Zegnat We have gone longer than schedules sometimes. All depends on how much time people have. Personally I can often stick around longer, but can’t guarantee that.
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Zegnat If someone wants to organise one that runs later, go right ahead, maybe I’ll show up. But I am pretty OK with running it the way I have been doing these last months
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j4y_funabashi sketchess: out of the 2, I would say advanced - have been lurking around indieweb and building tools for a few years
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jeremycherfas Thank you sketchess. I have captured those, but I still don’t understand where in the wiki they should go. Maybe here https://indieweb.org/events/2017-08-23-homebrew-website-club
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sketchess I am afraid I can not help you with it yet Jeremy. I just started using the wiki.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: is there a specific place for notes on HWCs?
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jeremycherfas Seems to me that the dated entry is just a repeat of the next-hwc entry, which is part of the random confuingness of the wiki. :)
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Zegnat No. Blog posts are recommended for those usually. The HWC page has a place to link blog posts.
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jeremycherfas OK. So I make a post using the notes from sketchess, and then link that?
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Zegnat not a repeat. next-hwc is just a redirect. When you press edit on the next-hwc page you will actually edit the dated page
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Zegnat Or you just put a link in to the chatlogs
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sketchess Well the actual week day of HWC isn't a problem for me too. It's the issue that at most cases I not arrive before 18.30 or even later.
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sketchess Let us give it a go on next HWC. I can take over from you Zegnat and beeing there for late joiners like j4y_funabashi and me. It might play into schmarty's schedule as well.
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sketchess Ok. I have to take a brake, lunch is ready.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Virtual Homebrew Website Club" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-08-24 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/virtual-homebrew-website-club
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sketchess Nice post jeremycherfas. :)
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jeremycherfas Couldn’t have done it without you sketchess.
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sketchess You are too kind. I am just a walking archive. Thihihi. Often lack of the right words and or letters.
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sketchess You didn't include the CMS stuff that bothered you. *noticed
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sketchess has started to collect subjects for a beginner's guide
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jeremycherfas No. I may later or in a followup
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sketchess Would be writing it in German a good idea as well? *thought
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sketchess o.O Gosh time. I have to go. See ya around. Baba
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "HWC Frederick 2017-08-23 Wrap-Up" https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/08/23/13/article/
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voxpelli Disturbing stuff: https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/900719667190398976
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@voxpelli Do you "own" your internet identity if the owner of your TLD can increase the price by 1000%? https://blog.dnsimple.com/2017/08/uniregistry-tld-price-increase/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH__w3TXkAASBcA.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/900719667190398976)
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voxpelli I hope the owner of eg. ".rocks" won't decide to do the same :P
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voxpelli Perhaps should extend some of the warnings on the wiki regarding these new TLD:s (eg here: http://indieweb.org/short-domains#tech) and mention them all on the tld page
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voxpelli what is tld?
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Loqi A top-level domain (TLD) is the last part of a domain name, such as .com, .net, .org https://indieweb.org/TLD
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@voxpelli Biggest change is from $30 to $450 a year for .hosting – such changes would kill #indieweb identities and ensures people sticks to .com etc (twitter.com/_/status/900722078487392256)
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petermolnar I've checked every domain alternative I could grasp, nothing is a viable option for now :((
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petermolnar and since your domain is always just a rented thing you're always at the risk of losing it
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petermolnar namecoin is not any better, you need to pay recurring fees
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petermolnar ipfs is not fun to use to put it light
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petermolnar is also for not frequently changing static files
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petermolnar the one and only option to actually own a "domain" is .onion
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jeremycherfas Forgive my ignorance, but how hard (and expensive) would it be to lobby for a TLD like, say, IW?
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petermolnar in the hundreds of thousands usd range
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jeremycherfas Oh well, ignore me.
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petermolnar btw voxpelli I'm not certain this is bad, the price raise
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petermolnar sticking to the good ol' tlds are not necessarily a bad thing
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voxpelli agree, not bad to stick to the regular ones
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petermolnar the ancient ones, .com, .net, .org, those are always safe choices; if you have a .gov, I might get surprised though :D
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petermolnar the country level ones are interesting though
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petermolnar like .io
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voxpelli I know that the Swedish one, .se, is run by a foundation, which uses its profits to push the internet infrastructure and research forward, so that one feels very safe to me
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petermolnar what happens to a country level tld if the country it belongs to cease to exist?
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petermolnar not that sweden is endangered, I'm just curious
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[miklb] might have bigger problems to deal with then
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petermolnar disagree, see .io
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petermolnar that is 99% not in country
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[miklb] just meant if countries start ceasing to exist, we might have bigger issues at hand
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petermolnar it's not as unusual as you'd think
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voxpelli well, eg. the Soviet Union tld is still alive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su
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petermolnar huh. nice find.
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petermolnar indie.su sounds way too blackhat :d
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petermolnar "The code eh, although eligible as ccTLD for Western Sahara, has never been assigned and does not exist in DNS." too mad. "m.eh" would be awesome.
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aaronpk shoot, I have a .tv domain and it's in that list
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Zegnat Isn’t .tv insanely expensive for a domain anyway?
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aaronpk $25
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petermolnar how much it's about to be?
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aaronpk i can't figure that out
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Zegnat Oh, I thought tv was one of those with a huge buy-in :o Maybe I misremembered.
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aaronpk nah. kinda surprising it's not tho
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aaronpk interesting, namecheap is dropping several of the new TLDs because of the price increase https://blog.namecheap.com/discontinued-domains-price-changes/
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Loqi [Namecheap Staff] Discontinued Domains & Price Changes
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jeremycherfas I love the fact that .rich is being discontinued because it is too expensive (for Namecheap)
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sknebel heh
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sknebel wasn't there some 999$ iPhone app which only showed "I'm rich" or soemthing?
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petermolnar hm. there is no '.yo'
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[muhh] “.lo”?
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Zegnat sknebel, yeah, didn’t it display a ruby or something?
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sknebel Zegnat: that rings a bell, yes
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Zegnat https://www.wired.com/2008/08/eight-people-bo/
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: I guess you could afford a few renewals on the proceeds.
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sebsel .nl is the first country TLD, and run by a foundation too, so I think I'm safe.
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Loqi sebsel: sl007 left you a message 3 days, 5 hours ago: - ^^^ sorry, same for NL ;)
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sebsel TIL: the Dutch police has .politie
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sebsel lol, sl007, tells without the message itself are not practical.
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[kevinmarks] The .tv domain is Tuvalu, which may cease to exist as it is a low lying island
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[kevinmarks] It's highest point is 15ft above sea level
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voxpelli aaronpk: in the mail from DNSimple they say they will raise the price of .tv from 40 to 42, so that's pretty okay :)
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aaronpk oh good
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sebsel Hm, I just replied to a protected tweet. My site uses my own Twitter API keys and stuff, so I get why my own XRay can see it... but it also shows in the reply context in Quill. How protected are protected tweets?
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aaronpk protected as in from a private account?
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sebsel yes
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sebsel They have a lock-icon
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KartikPrabhu interesting that Quill can see it
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aaronpk if you've connected your twitter account to quill it'll use your credentials when fetching the reply context
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aaronpk otherwise i don't think you'll get reply contexts for tweets at all
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sebsel Ahhh, okay!
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sebsel That makes sense.
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aaronpk (quill just uses the xray api)
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sebsel Kind of want to paste the URL here to see what Loqi does.
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sebsel https://twitter.com/vaneikenhorst/status/900742516802285569
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sebsel Nope, nothing. OK :)
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sebsel Mystery solved
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sebsel That's another benefit from using the API vs scraping: Twitter knows you so you get protected tweets.
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snarfed scraping--
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Loqi scraping has -3 karma in this channel (-4 overall)
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sketchess What is scraping?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "scraping" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel Scraping is extracting data from an unstructured web page, opposed to from an API or embedded structured data like [[microformats]].
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Loqi ok
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sebsel oh, that one is nicer that the one I was typing.
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sebsel sketchess does that help clarifying? :)
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sknebel so in the case of twitter, writing a program that fetches the twitter homepage and then goes by names of CSS classes and stuff like that to find the text of a tweet. Which will break if twitter renames their CSS or adds an extra div or something
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sketchess Not really, hahahahaha.
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Loqi sketchess: lol
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sketchess We have missed you on vHWC sebsel.
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sketchess Oh I forget to check on the uploaded photos. xD *runs
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sebsel sketchess I totally forgot about it.
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sketchess What! o.O Are you serious sebsel?
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sketchess *rofl* upsidedown.....
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sknebel lol... stupid embedded rotation data vs pixels
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sketchess I hope you will come to the next one. schmarty tries to join too. I never would wanna miss that in a million years. xD
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sebsel I was too deep in other things, sketchess :( Zegnat has forgiven me already, hope you can too.
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sebsel (I now see that I can't attend the next and the one after, so you'll have to miss me for a while, unless you go weekly ;) )
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sketchess No need to forgive anything sebsel. I am just surprised and a bit afraid of myself. ; P
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sketchess I might be some sort of adicted, thihihihi.
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sketchess We were dicussing extending the vHWC earlier.
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sketchess +d
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sketchess Why do you can't join, sebsel?
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sebsel Just other real life appointments, sketchess :)
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sebsel But HWC is always early, I might actually make some, we'll see.
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sebsel That's why I keep forgetting it too: once I begin thinking about my evening, it's already done
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sketchess Not earlier in timing, earlier of today.
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sketchess In fact minimum two of us would like to extend it to a later range.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Packing day 5: Woodford Reserve" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-23 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/23/packing-day-5-woodford-reserve/
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sketchess starting from around 18.30 / 19.00... a take over if you like
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sketchess What timings would be suitable for you, sebsel?
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Zegnat I already do a call from 18:00 until 23:00 on Tuesdays, that's why I have to hold a bit back on staying later on Wednesdays. Don't want to only sit and talk two nights in a row
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sketchess You don't have to Zegnat.
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tantek reads today's logs
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tantek fascinating discussions about domains!
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raretrack reading sketchess's summary of the vHWC I missed
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tantek now I'm really confused - who is calling audio / video chat apps "platforms"?!?
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sketchess jeremycherfas has formed it to a post.... link is in todays logs
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tantek they're apps, they are not "platforms" to develop/code something on top of
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tantek https://indieweb.org/platform#Online_meeting_platforms <-- this makes zero sense
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sketchess o.O
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tantek they are all "chat", not platforms
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tantek see obligatory XKCD diagram here: https://indieweb.org/chat
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raretrack sketchess++ for the summary :)
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Loqi sketchess has 4 karma in this channel (5 overall)
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sketchess Do you wanna have Jeremy's link too?
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raretrack yes please
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sketchess https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/virtual-homebrew-website-club
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tantek I'm going to move all the mislabeled "platform" chat apps to /chat
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bear I can totally see Discord becoming a platform
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bear audio, forums, direct messaging, integrations to other services
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sketchess Sweet dreams and a good morning everyone. Baba
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tantek what is Discord
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Discord" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek bear, "becoming" != "is", if any of these "pivot" and become some sort of actually developer adopted "platform", we can edit later. until then, any hypothetical aspirations any of these might have can be documented on their individual wiki pages
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bear ah - I see your distinction - yep, agree
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bear I dipped briefly into future-vision-astronaut-architecture mode - i've been away from Indieweb for too long ;)
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tantek lol :)
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Zegnat They were called platforms as a subsection on the vHWC page, where sknebel and I were testing them out. As in communication platforms. That might be where the confusion came from when jeremycherfas decided to move them to their own page.
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tantek Zegnat, I'm curious where did even the idea of calling them a "communication platform" come from?
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Zegnat Not sure, I probably just needed a title
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aaronpk that's pretty common terminology
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tantek lolwut? citations?
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aaronpk https://www.elcomcms.com/resources/blog/15-essential-communication-platforms-and-software-to-use
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tantek is suspecting aspirational marketing-speak now
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aaronpk "Communication platforms and software can be indispensable in facilitating better collaboration and connection in-house as well as with clients and partners."
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aaronpk yeah it's marketing speak
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aaronpk it's still a thing
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tantek ah, almost as bad, it's consultant-speak "clients and partners" :P
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aaronpk "Communication platform Layer raises $15M" https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/24/layer-acquires-cola/
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Zegnat Much like “gaming platform”, “communication platform” is also gaining traction amongst my less-techie friends. I think it’s a fine term.
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tantek wtf is gaming platform?!?
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Zegnat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_gaming_platforms
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tantek it's not a fine term because it is dilutionary as to what a platform actually is
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aaronpk it's just a different context for the word "platform"
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Zegnat Gaming platform has been around for years. Almost all video game reviewers will use it
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cweiske lolwut has a nice touch for me as a German speaker, since in german "wut" means "fury"
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aaronpk ?
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tantek since laughing-crying is an emoji, we definitely laughing-fury
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Zegnat Also giving birth to terms like cross-platform gaming, e.g. when multiplayer games connect players on PlayStation with those on PC.
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tantek gaming "platform" makes more sense because 3rd party developers do actually write *code* to run on e.g. XBox
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tantek and then users play the games coded for a platform
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tantek but when users just use the "apps" of a "platform", it's not a platform
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tantek e.g. all the comms / chat stuff
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aaronpk what is a platform?
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Loqi A platform in the context of software/services is a collection of related APIs/protocols/formats that can be used to build a site/app https://indieweb.org/platform
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tantek updating that now
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aaronpk right there: "in the context of"
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aaronpk a platform in a different context has a different definition
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tantek what is a platform?
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Loqi A platform in the context of software/services is a collection of related APIs/protocols/formats that can be used to build sites/apps, and sometimes misleadingly used to refer to apps themselves, or suites of apps, to exaggerate their sense of importance, value, or impact https://indieweb.org/platform
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tantek aaronpk, it's a pretty broad context, in technology in general this notion of "stuff that gets used" is "built" or "sits on top of" (i.e. is *separate from*, *something other than*) a "platform". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform
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tantek the only gray area is when a website / app later launches an API which then enables other apps on top of their backend. (Twitter, FB)
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tantek enables *and* gets people to actually ship, and users to actually use those other apps.
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tantek Amazon is another interesting example, started as a service, then opened up to allow other people to build stuff on top, whether their own "stores" on top of Amazon, or all the shared infrastructure stuff
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tantek the former being more of a "business platform" as it were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_model#Platform
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tantek ooh this is a nice looking presentation that combines /contact UI and /rel-me links https://edent.tel/
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Loqi Terence Eden
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aaronpk hey when did they start letting custom html on .tel
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aaronpk pretty sure i use to have a .tel when that first launched
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tantek maybe when you embed it on a .mobi ?
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tantek e.g. bottom of https://shkspr.mobi/blog/
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tantek some neat indieweb related posts there
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tantek https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/07/previewing-circular-avatars/
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Loqi Previewing Circular Avatars
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tantek and aaronpk weren't you talking about 2FA via postcard?!? https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/06/2fa-using-a-postcard/
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Loqi 2FA using a postcard!
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cweiske btw aaronpk http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2017/2017-08-24%20apple-ctrl-key-dot.jpg
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snarfed aww what happened to shkspr.mobi ?! just a couple months ago it was all of shakespeare's works formatted for reading on phone. odd.
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tantek o rly?
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snarfed yeah, amusingly i actually have a WARC of that entire site in indiemap
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tantek the new one or old?
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snarfed huh. old...i thought...except looking at the warc, it has the new blog site. i wonder if i hallucinated the old site
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snarfed at least enough to put it in the indiemap docs: http://www.indiemap.org/docs.html#notable
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tantek or slightly different domain?
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snarfed yeah good guess but i can't find a similar domain in https://github.com/snarfed/indie-map/blob/master/crawl/domains.txt
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snarfed i totally remember the other site. so weird.
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tantek is it in archive org?
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snarfed not back to 2016 at least
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snarfed https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2012/04/open-source-shakespeare-in-mysql/
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Loqi Open Source Shakespeare (in MySQL)
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snarfed AHA https://shkspr.mobi/plays.php
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tantek nice!
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tantek oh no those permalinks
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Zegnat Not sure they are meant to be pretty permalinks. All the numbers are tweakable. E.g. if you want the quote from his MySQL post: https://shkspr.mobi/plays.php?play=content/comedies/Comedy%20of%20Erros&start=1679&length=4
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aaronpk lol cweiske
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sknebel .oO why was that list moved from virtual HWC to begin with?
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sknebel on /chat it IMHO also doesn't make sense, especially not as "silo examples"
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sknebel since there is no data to "silo" in services we use account-less and without any history kept
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tantek not even recent call history? contacts?
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tantek Hangouts keeps chat logs, that makes it silo enough
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tantek as does Skype
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tantek what is Google Hangouts
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Loqi Hangouts is Google's messaging tool that supports chat, groups, SMS/MMS (on Android), and videoconferencing https://indieweb.org/Google_Hangouts
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sknebel at least in how we use it, appear.in and talky are "click link, talk", I have no idea if it maintains anything
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sknebel (I think you can sign up to accounts?)
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tantek yeah appear and talky are worth separating
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sknebel mumble as well
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sknebel (also seems a bit odd to start the list on the /chat page with a bunch of videoconference services, but a start is a start I guess)
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tantek but that's what they are - video chat
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sknebel everything else on the page seems primarily about text chat, but yes, its not wrong
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tantek right, we can make separate pages, I mean I already did for SMS since it is such a massive security vuln
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sknebel I think I'll restore the specific note list for vHWC tomorrow (on a subpage maybe), then the list on chat can be split and the HWC-specific references cleaned up
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tantek I can split the list on /chat
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tantek also that pro/con presentation is a bit odd - and it creates headings that you can't click to because they're all named the same thing (first one "wins")
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sknebel I get numbered ones?
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sknebel https://indieweb.org/chat#Pros_3
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sknebel (content again is specific for our virtual HWC concerns, so not necessarily important for /chat)
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tantek that's actually worse
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tantek when you add another one, the numbering changes
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tantek so the permalinks "break" and misdirect you to a differnt spot
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Zegnat Yeah, it was basically the documentation sknebel and I were using. Using the wiki as a live notepad. Wasn’t paying attention to the IDs on the headers.
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Zegnat In fact, I may have had the TOC turned off on the vHWC page we were using for these notes
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sknebel and hiding them from the TOC is something mediawiki doesn't like to do if I remember right
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Zegnat Yeah, there is __NOTOC__ on the vHWC page
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tantek sknebel: and now that Pros_3 link goes somewhere other than where it did when you posted it
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sknebel yeah, those shouldn't be (easily) linkable
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Zegnat Some of the cons (e.g. needing an account, or for Mumble the “hosted or rented by the organiser” comment) don’t make much sense outside of the evaluation-for-vhwc context either
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tantek but by making them headings that's exactly what is intended
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Zegnat To be fair, they should be easily linkable, they are headings subdividing sections, it’s just that the mediawiki chosen ID might not be the best for it
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sknebel that'd be even better, but again not something mediawiki will easily let us do I suspect ;)
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sknebel well, I'm going to go sleep now
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sknebel good night everyone!
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Loqi laila tov!
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Zegnat Same here. Good night all!
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tantek the comparison stuff might make more sense on the vHWC page
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... a good database of site deaths - http://productgraveyard.com
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[cleverdevil] (Also, hello, I have inexplicably survived most of the day!)
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schmarty [cleverdevil]: hello and congrats on your continued survival! :}