#indieweb 2017-08-24

2017-08-24 UTC
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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waynr
what is taters precious
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waynr
what is taters?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "taters" yet. Would you like to create it?
eli_oat, KartikPrabhu and tantek joined the channel
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tantek
hello from HWC SF!
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tantek
(quiet writing hour)
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tantek
four of us here now in SF, regrets from benwerd and a couple of other folks
[miklb], bdesham and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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tantek
and Grant Richmond makes 5!
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Loqi
[Grant Richmond] Is going to an event: http://tantek.com/2017/235/e1/homebrew-website-club ...
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tantek
and Megan too
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tantek
that's everyone that's RSVPd YES either indie or FB - except benwerd who is a bit under the weather and we are sorry to miss
jjuran joined the channel
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tantek
Grant came here all the way from Scotland!
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tantek
his website is grant.codes
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tantek
last thing he fixed is RSVP
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tantek
he got RSVPs working with his face now!
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tantek
so it shows up as the most recent RSVP here: http://tantek.com/2017/235/e1/homebrew-website-club
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club SF
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tantek
(ed note: and now I need to get my displayed RSVPs linking directly to RSVP permalink URLs!)
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Loqi
Grant Richmond
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tantek
shows where he is
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tantek
he has an app on his phone that sends mqtt to his site via micropub
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tantek
whenever you use a map
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[grantcodes]
Tatek added support for "attending event" posts
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tantek
Evan up ntext
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tantek
he's an electronic music producer
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tantek
he is showing his indie site chipperswitch.com
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tantek
(aside: the "attending" RSVP that I demo'd http://tantek.com/2017/228/t1/attending-august-yimby-meeting )
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] attending August YIMBY Party Meeting. Talk of SF districts housing developments, city/state proposals. Links: * https://yimbyaction.org/ (@yimbyaction) * http://www.sfyimby.org/ (@SFyimby) * http://yimby.wiki/wiki/Frequently_asked_questions
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tantek
he used CSS grid layout to improve the presentation of his site
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tantek
really enjoying CSS grid layout. would love to learn more
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tantek
(describes a layout challenge he is having)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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tantek
next up Emre
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tantek
who started BarCamp Istanbul back in the day (over 10 years ago)
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tantek
demoing phonetworks.org
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tantek
it lets you create "Graph Apps"
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tantek
instead of using MVC, it uses remote edge architecture to build social apps
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tantek
based on Redis instead of MySQL or other database
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tantek
reasoning is that it makes it much faster, but very expensive, because the whole thing is hosted in RAM
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tantek
just launched it a few days ago
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tantek
instead of MVC, it uses GraphQL, which is a FB invention - an attempt to replace REST APIs
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Loqi
Emre Sokullu
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tantek
can be used to create APIs similar to existing APIs
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tantek
early version of a framework - for developers to build stuff
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tantek
purpose is that developers would be able to prototype their apps much more quickly
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tantek
maybe even get actual products out
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tantek
similar to Parse did
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tantek
what was Parse?
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Loqi
Parse was a mobile backend as a service company that was acquired by Facebook in 2013, who subsequently shut down the service 2017-01-28, yet Parse still released their software as open source, including SDKs, libraries, and their Parse Server, so you can setup and manage your own mobile backend as a service, which is what you had to do before Parse https://indieweb.org/Parse
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tantek
Pho networks is graph based instead of databased based (which is what Parse was)
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tantek
(brief conversation about nodes and edges and users and actions, both being entities etc.)
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tantek
tantek: has someone built a UI out of this yet?
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tantek
emre: not yet.
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tantek
tantek: could you make a home page out of this?
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tantek
emre: you could
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tantek
tantek: take a look at how you could build your own home page doing this!
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tantek
s/doing/with
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tantek
evan: this is kinda like if you wanted to build your own social media website, this is all the plumbing?
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tantek
emre: yeah
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tantek
emre: visiting from Sparks, just moved from the bay area
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tantek
ben: I need recommendations for an IndieWeb instagram clone like thing. get going locally, then clone it to Instagram
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tantek
ben: I keep getting into the nerd trap of building the thing to build the thing, then looking for a library for ... etc.
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tantek
grant: I've seen CMSs for profession photographers
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tantek
ben: I could just install WordPress
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tantek
emre: we're using WordPress on altplatform.org
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tantek
... with plugins for sharing content
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tantek
Brian Jesse's github repo
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tantek
ben: like where do you put the images?
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tantek
... like 3 MB images? git repo? if you're serving that, you want to scale them down for use-cases etc.
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tantek
... text is way easier to manipulate
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tantek
tantek: I have a challenge of writing long blog posts
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tantek
... like this current one I have almost 5600 words
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tantek
grant: one guy just posts incremental posts
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tantek
welcome EmreSokullu !
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tantek
evan: would be cool to see it updated live like a Google Doc!
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tantek
ben: that would get me to finish it - knowing that people are seeing it
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EmreSokullu
https://github.com/myphotolinks/myphotolinks -- this is the plugin we've just talked about; it's for sharing photos privately using wordpress.
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Loqi
[myphotolinks] myphotolinks: WordPress plug-in that emails out auto-login links for private posts, and notifies on email-click
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tantek
EmreSokullu++
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Loqi
emresokullu has 1 karma
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tantek
Grant took a photo of us outside with his real camera and gorillapod tripod
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tantek
and we're done for the night here at HWC SF!
jjuran, AndChat-663936, eli_oat, raziellight, indie-visitor, arlen and tantek joined the channel
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tantek
good evening #indieweb
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snarfed
hoo boy schmarty has a 1.5MB inline data: image on https://martymcgui.re/2017/08/23/201714/ ?
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Loqi
[Marty McGuire] HWC Baltimore 2017-08-23 Wrap-Up
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tantek
schmarty++ for https://martymcgui.re/2017/08/19/140447/ great job with new User page intros and the whole podcast!
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Loqi
schmarty has 19 karma in this channel (26 overall)
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Loqi
[Marty McGuire] This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • August 12th - 18th, 2017
snarfed, tantek, j12t, jihaisse and sl007 joined the channel
[kevinmarks] and sketchess joined the channel
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sketchess
Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb.
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[pfefferle]
good morning
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Loqi
good morning
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Zegnat
Good morning sl007, sketchess, [pfefferle], & the rest of the IndieWeb :)
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[colinwalker]
Howdy folks.
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sketchess
welcome welcome
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sknebel
good morning [colinwalker]!
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[colinwalker]
Hey sknebel. All good?
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sknebel
way to much stuff to do right now, other than that yes ;)
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@no_identd
@IGHMarketing @C_Randieri Check out @indiewebcamp, this article barely touches on the really important points!
(twitter.com/_/status/900650937009700865)
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j4y_funabashi
morning all
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jeremycherfas
Good morning IndieWeb and everyone else who got here early
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j4y_funabashi
just got tripped up by the micropub.rocks token endpoint returning json instead of form-encoded, doh!
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schmarty
Good morning, IndieWeb!
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j4y_funabashi
morning schmarty
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schmarty
Thanks for the podcast feedback, tantek! Also thanks snarfed for the heads up on the inline image. Not sure why Quill didn't send it to my media endpoint... :/
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sketchess
Hey schmarty. :) Will you ever attend a vHWC?
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schmarty
Hey sketchess! I would like to! They are at an awkward time for me, so I will need to do some planning. I will plan to be at the next one.
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sketchess
I hope I can make it to the next one then. Tuff working and travel hours. They will cut off one of my ways for sure next HWC week. Would be sad if I miss all the fun.
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sketchess
schmarty: By the way. Which of the two voices is your real one? The deep Indieweb voice or the higher pitching one of the other podcasts? I know I am curious. ; P
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schmarty
I am typically more high pitched and hyperactive than the IndieWeb podcast voice would indicate :)
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j4y_funabashi
what is vhwc
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "vhwc" yet. Would you like to create it?
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j4y_funabashi
what is hwc
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club is a bi-weekly meetup of people passionate about or interested in creating, improving, building, designing their own website, in the same structure as the classic Homebrew Computer Club meetings https://indieweb.org/hwc
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j4y_funabashi
bah the euro hwc is too early for me to be able to attend :(
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j4y_funabashi
thanks sl007
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sl007
When is HWC
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club is a bi-weekly meetup of people passionate about or interested in creating, improving, building, designing their own website, in the same structure as the classic Homebrew Computer Club meetings https://indieweb.org/hwc
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sketchess
Don't be sad j4y_funabashi. It is always possible to create an other HWC which is easier to attend.
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sketchess
What time zone are you on?
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j4y_funabashi
I know, but would like to join my Euro crew. I am in the UK but don't usually get home till around 19:00
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jeremycherfas
Sketchess: did your notes from last night get put into the wiki somewhere?
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sketchess
I do not know jeremycherfas. But it is saved on the logs, so it can't run away. Do you wanted to add and edit?
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jeremycherfas
I didn’t see it in the logs. Have you got a link?
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sketchess
I am facing the same problem j4y_funabashi. I was thinking of running another vHWC in between the two weeks spare time.
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sketchess
a second jeremy
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sketchess
it is marked
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sketchess
I always wondered if there would be any interest in little time of a weekend day.
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sketchess
It is also possible to run one on the other wednesday which is meant for people who can not attend the earlier ones.
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sketchess
So it would make two chances to share thoughts.
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sketchess
or a other day
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sketchess
Do you have any suggestions of your own j4y_funabashi?
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sketchess
Are you beginner or advanced?
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sketchess
Hmm. Expanding the vHWC is also an option. Making it two rounds might be work. An early and a late session. So many possibilities imaginable.
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sketchess
Do you have any thoughts on this Zegnat?
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j4y_funabashi
yeah, the day is fine for me, it is just the time that is an issue for me
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Zegnat
We have gone longer than schedules sometimes. All depends on how much time people have. Personally I can often stick around longer, but can’t guarantee that.
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Zegnat
If someone wants to organise one that runs later, go right ahead, maybe I’ll show up. But I am pretty OK with running it the way I have been doing these last months
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j4y_funabashi
sketchess: out of the 2, I would say advanced - have been lurking around indieweb and building tools for a few years
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jeremycherfas
Thank you sketchess. I have captured those, but I still don’t understand where in the wiki they should go. Maybe here https://indieweb.org/events/2017-08-23-homebrew-website-club
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sketchess
I am afraid I can not help you with it yet Jeremy. I just started using the wiki.
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jeremycherfas
Zegnat: is there a specific place for notes on HWCs?
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jeremycherfas
Seems to me that the dated entry is just a repeat of the next-hwc entry, which is part of the random confuingness of the wiki. :)
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Zegnat
No. Blog posts are recommended for those usually. The HWC page has a place to link blog posts.
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jeremycherfas
OK. So I make a post using the notes from sketchess, and then link that?
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Zegnat
not a repeat. next-hwc is just a redirect. When you press edit on the next-hwc page you will actually edit the dated page
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Zegnat
Or you just put a link in to the chatlogs
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sketchess
Well the actual week day of HWC isn't a problem for me too. It's the issue that at most cases I not arrive before 18.30 or even later.
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sketchess
Let us give it a go on next HWC. I can take over from you Zegnat and beeing there for late joiners like j4y_funabashi and me. It might play into schmarty's schedule as well.
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sketchess
Ok. I have to take a brake, lunch is ready.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Virtual Homebrew Website Club" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-08-24 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/virtual-homebrew-website-club
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sketchess
Nice post jeremycherfas. :)
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jeremycherfas
Couldn’t have done it without you sketchess.
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sketchess
You are too kind. I am just a walking archive. Thihihi. Often lack of the right words and or letters.
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sketchess
You didn't include the CMS stuff that bothered you. *noticed
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sketchess
has started to collect subjects for a beginner's guide
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jeremycherfas
No. I may later or in a followup
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sketchess
Would be writing it in German a good idea as well? *thought
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sketchess
o.O Gosh time. I have to go. See ya around. Baba
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "HWC Frederick 2017-08-23 Wrap-Up" https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/08/23/13/article/
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voxpelli
I hope the owner of eg. ".rocks" won't decide to do the same :P
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voxpelli
Perhaps should extend some of the warnings on the wiki regarding these new TLD:s (eg here: http://indieweb.org/short-domains#tech) and mention them all on the tld page
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voxpelli
what is tld?
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Loqi
A top-level domain (TLD) is the last part of a domain name, such as .com, .net, .org https://indieweb.org/TLD
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@voxpelli
Biggest change is from $30 to $450 a year for .hosting – such changes would kill #indieweb identities and ensures people sticks to .com etc
(twitter.com/_/status/900722078487392256)
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petermolnar
I've checked every domain alternative I could grasp, nothing is a viable option for now :((
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petermolnar
and since your domain is always just a rented thing you're always at the risk of losing it
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petermolnar
namecoin is not any better, you need to pay recurring fees
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petermolnar
ipfs is not fun to use to put it light
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petermolnar
is also for not frequently changing static files
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petermolnar
the one and only option to actually own a "domain" is .onion
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jeremycherfas
Forgive my ignorance, but how hard (and expensive) would it be to lobby for a TLD like, say, IW?
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petermolnar
in the hundreds of thousands usd range
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jeremycherfas
Oh well, ignore me.
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petermolnar
btw voxpelli I'm not certain this is bad, the price raise
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petermolnar
sticking to the good ol' tlds are not necessarily a bad thing
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voxpelli
agree, not bad to stick to the regular ones
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petermolnar
the ancient ones, .com, .net, .org, those are always safe choices; if you have a .gov, I might get surprised though :D
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petermolnar
the country level ones are interesting though
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voxpelli
I know that the Swedish one, .se, is run by a foundation, which uses its profits to push the internet infrastructure and research forward, so that one feels very safe to me
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petermolnar
what happens to a country level tld if the country it belongs to cease to exist?
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petermolnar
not that sweden is endangered, I'm just curious
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[miklb]
might have bigger problems to deal with then
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petermolnar
disagree, see .io
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petermolnar
that is 99% not in country
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[miklb]
just meant if countries start ceasing to exist, we might have bigger issues at hand
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petermolnar
it's not as unusual as you'd think
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voxpelli
well, eg. the Soviet Union tld is still alive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su
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petermolnar
huh. nice find.
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petermolnar
indie.su sounds way too blackhat :d
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petermolnar
"The code eh, although eligible as ccTLD for Western Sahara, has never been assigned and does not exist in DNS." too mad. "m.eh" would be awesome.
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aaronpk
shoot, I have a .tv domain and it's in that list
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Zegnat
Isn’t .tv insanely expensive for a domain anyway?
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petermolnar
how much it's about to be?
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aaronpk
i can't figure that out
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Zegnat
Oh, I thought tv was one of those with a huge buy-in :o Maybe I misremembered.
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aaronpk
nah. kinda surprising it's not tho
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aaronpk
interesting, namecheap is dropping several of the new TLDs because of the price increase https://blog.namecheap.com/discontinued-domains-price-changes/
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Loqi
[Namecheap Staff] Discontinued Domains & Price Changes
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jeremycherfas
I love the fact that .rich is being discontinued because it is too expensive (for Namecheap)
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sknebel
wasn't there some 999$ iPhone app which only showed "I'm rich" or soemthing?
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petermolnar
hm. there is no '.yo'
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[muhh]
“.lo”?
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Zegnat
sknebel, yeah, didn’t it display a ruby or something?
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sknebel
Zegnat: that rings a bell, yes
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jeremycherfas
Zegnat: I guess you could afford a few renewals on the proceeds.
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sebsel
.nl is the first country TLD, and run by a foundation too, so I think I'm safe.
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Loqi
sebsel: sl007 left you a message 3 days, 5 hours ago: - ^^^ sorry, same for NL ;)
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sebsel
TIL: the Dutch police has .politie
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sebsel
lol, sl007, tells without the message itself are not practical.
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[kevinmarks]
The .tv domain is Tuvalu, which may cease to exist as it is a low lying island
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[kevinmarks]
It's highest point is 15ft above sea level
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voxpelli
aaronpk: in the mail from DNSimple they say they will raise the price of .tv from 40 to 42, so that's pretty okay :)
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aaronpk
oh good
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sebsel
Hm, I just replied to a protected tweet. My site uses my own Twitter API keys and stuff, so I get why my own XRay can see it... but it also shows in the reply context in Quill. How protected are protected tweets?
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aaronpk
protected as in from a private account?
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sebsel
They have a lock-icon
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KartikPrabhu
interesting that Quill can see it
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aaronpk
if you've connected your twitter account to quill it'll use your credentials when fetching the reply context
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aaronpk
otherwise i don't think you'll get reply contexts for tweets at all
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sebsel
Ahhh, okay!
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sebsel
That makes sense.
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aaronpk
(quill just uses the xray api)
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sebsel
Kind of want to paste the URL here to see what Loqi does.
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sebsel
Nope, nothing. OK :)
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sebsel
Mystery solved
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sebsel
That's another benefit from using the API vs scraping: Twitter knows you so you get protected tweets.
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snarfed
scraping--
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Loqi
scraping has -3 karma in this channel (-4 overall)
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sketchess
What is scraping?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "scraping" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel
Scraping is extracting data from an unstructured web page, opposed to from an API or embedded structured data like [[microformats]].
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sebsel
oh, that one is nicer that the one I was typing.
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sebsel
sketchess does that help clarifying? :)
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sknebel
so in the case of twitter, writing a program that fetches the twitter homepage and then goes by names of CSS classes and stuff like that to find the text of a tweet. Which will break if twitter renames their CSS or adds an extra div or something
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sketchess
Not really, hahahahaha.
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Loqi
sketchess: lol
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sketchess
We have missed you on vHWC sebsel.
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sketchess
Oh I forget to check on the uploaded photos. xD *runs
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sebsel
sketchess I totally forgot about it.
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sketchess
What! o.O Are you serious sebsel?
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sketchess
*rofl* upsidedown.....
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sknebel
lol... stupid embedded rotation data vs pixels
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sketchess
I hope you will come to the next one. schmarty tries to join too. I never would wanna miss that in a million years. xD
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sebsel
I was too deep in other things, sketchess :( Zegnat has forgiven me already, hope you can too.
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sebsel
(I now see that I can't attend the next and the one after, so you'll have to miss me for a while, unless you go weekly ;) )
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sketchess
No need to forgive anything sebsel. I am just surprised and a bit afraid of myself. ; P
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sketchess
I might be some sort of adicted, thihihihi.
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sketchess
We were dicussing extending the vHWC earlier.
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sketchess
+d
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sketchess
Why do you can't join, sebsel?
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sebsel
Just other real life appointments, sketchess :)
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sebsel
But HWC is always early, I might actually make some, we'll see.
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sebsel
That's why I keep forgetting it too: once I begin thinking about my evening, it's already done
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sketchess
Not earlier in timing, earlier of today.
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sketchess
In fact minimum two of us would like to extend it to a later range.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Packing day 5: Woodford Reserve" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-23 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/23/packing-day-5-woodford-reserve/
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sketchess
starting from around 18.30 / 19.00... a take over if you like
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sketchess
What timings would be suitable for you, sebsel?
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Zegnat
I already do a call from 18:00 until 23:00 on Tuesdays, that's why I have to hold a bit back on staying later on Wednesdays. Don't want to only sit and talk two nights in a row
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sketchess
You don't have to Zegnat.
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tantek
reads today's logs
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tantek
fascinating discussions about domains!
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raretrack
reading sketchess's summary of the vHWC I missed
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tantek
now I'm really confused - who is calling audio / video chat apps "platforms"?!?
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sketchess
jeremycherfas has formed it to a post.... link is in todays logs
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tantek
they're apps, they are not "platforms" to develop/code something on top of
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sketchess
o.O
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tantek
they are all "chat", not platforms
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tantek
see obligatory XKCD diagram here: https://indieweb.org/chat
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raretrack
sketchess++ for the summary :)
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Loqi
sketchess has 4 karma in this channel (5 overall)
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sketchess
Do you wanna have Jeremy's link too?
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raretrack
yes please
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tantek
I'm going to move all the mislabeled "platform" chat apps to /chat
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bear
I can totally see Discord becoming a platform
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bear
audio, forums, direct messaging, integrations to other services
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sketchess
Sweet dreams and a good morning everyone. Baba
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tantek
what is Discord
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Discord" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek
bear, "becoming" != "is", if any of these "pivot" and become some sort of actually developer adopted "platform", we can edit later. until then, any hypothetical aspirations any of these might have can be documented on their individual wiki pages
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bear
ah - I see your distinction - yep, agree
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bear
I dipped briefly into future-vision-astronaut-architecture mode - i've been away from Indieweb for too long ;)
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tantek
lol :)
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Zegnat
They were called platforms as a subsection on the vHWC page, where sknebel and I were testing them out. As in communication platforms. That might be where the confusion came from when jeremycherfas decided to move them to their own page.
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tantek
Zegnat, I'm curious where did even the idea of calling them a "communication platform" come from?
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Zegnat
Not sure, I probably just needed a title
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aaronpk
that's pretty common terminology
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tantek
lolwut? citations?
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tantek
is suspecting aspirational marketing-speak now
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aaronpk
"Communication platforms and software can be indispensable in facilitating better collaboration and connection in-house as well as with clients and partners."
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aaronpk
yeah it's marketing speak
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aaronpk
it's still a thing
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tantek
ah, almost as bad, it's consultant-speak "clients and partners" :P
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aaronpk
"Communication platform Layer raises $15M" https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/24/layer-acquires-cola/
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Zegnat
Much like “gaming platform”, “communication platform” is also gaining traction amongst my less-techie friends. I think it’s a fine term.
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tantek
wtf is gaming platform?!?
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tantek
it's not a fine term because it is dilutionary as to what a platform actually is
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aaronpk
it's just a different context for the word "platform"
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Zegnat
Gaming platform has been around for years. Almost all video game reviewers will use it
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cweiske
lolwut has a nice touch for me as a German speaker, since in german "wut" means "fury"
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tantek
since laughing-crying is an emoji, we definitely laughing-fury
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Zegnat
Also giving birth to terms like cross-platform gaming, e.g. when multiplayer games connect players on PlayStation with those on PC.
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tantek
gaming "platform" makes more sense because 3rd party developers do actually write *code* to run on e.g. XBox
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tantek
and then users play the games coded for a platform
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tantek
but when users just use the "apps" of a "platform", it's not a platform
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tantek
e.g. all the comms / chat stuff
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aaronpk
what is a platform?
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Loqi
A platform in the context of software/services is a collection of related APIs/protocols/formats that can be used to build a site/app https://indieweb.org/platform
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tantek
updating that now
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aaronpk
right there: "in the context of"
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aaronpk
a platform in a different context has a different definition
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tantek
what is a platform?
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Loqi
A platform in the context of software/services is a collection of related APIs/protocols/formats that can be used to build sites/apps, and sometimes misleadingly used to refer to apps themselves, or suites of apps, to exaggerate their sense of importance, value, or impact https://indieweb.org/platform
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tantek
aaronpk, it's a pretty broad context, in technology in general this notion of "stuff that gets used" is "built" or "sits on top of" (i.e. is *separate from*, *something other than*) a "platform". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform
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tantek
the only gray area is when a website / app later launches an API which then enables other apps on top of their backend. (Twitter, FB)
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tantek
enables *and* gets people to actually ship, and users to actually use those other apps.
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tantek
Amazon is another interesting example, started as a service, then opened up to allow other people to build stuff on top, whether their own "stores" on top of Amazon, or all the shared infrastructure stuff
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tantek
the former being more of a "business platform" as it were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_model#Platform
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tantek
ooh this is a nice looking presentation that combines /contact UI and /rel-me links https://edent.tel/
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Loqi
Terence Eden
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aaronpk
hey when did they start letting custom html on .tel
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aaronpk
pretty sure i use to have a .tel when that first launched
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tantek
maybe when you embed it on a .mobi ?
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tantek
some neat indieweb related posts there
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Loqi
Previewing Circular Avatars
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tantek
and aaronpk weren't you talking about 2FA via postcard?!? https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/06/2fa-using-a-postcard/
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Loqi
2FA using a postcard!
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snarfed
aww what happened to shkspr.mobi ?! just a couple months ago it was all of shakespeare's works formatted for reading on phone. odd.
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tantek
o rly?
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snarfed
yeah, amusingly i actually have a WARC of that entire site in indiemap
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tantek
the new one or old?
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snarfed
huh. old...i thought...except looking at the warc, it has the new blog site. i wonder if i hallucinated the old site
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snarfed
at least enough to put it in the indiemap docs: http://www.indiemap.org/docs.html#notable
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tantek
or slightly different domain?
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snarfed
yeah good guess but i can't find a similar domain in https://github.com/snarfed/indie-map/blob/master/crawl/domains.txt
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snarfed
i totally remember the other site. so weird.
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tantek
is it in archive org?
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snarfed
not back to 2016 at least
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Loqi
Open Source Shakespeare (in MySQL)
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tantek
nice!
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tantek
oh no those permalinks
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Zegnat
Not sure they are meant to be pretty permalinks. All the numbers are tweakable. E.g. if you want the quote from his MySQL post: https://shkspr.mobi/plays.php?play=content/comedies/Comedy%20of%20Erros&start=1679&length=4
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aaronpk
lol cweiske
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sknebel
.oO why was that list moved from virtual HWC to begin with?
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sknebel
on /chat it IMHO also doesn't make sense, especially not as "silo examples"
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sknebel
since there is no data to "silo" in services we use account-less and without any history kept
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tantek
not even recent call history? contacts?
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tantek
Hangouts keeps chat logs, that makes it silo enough
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tantek
as does Skype
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tantek
what is Google Hangouts
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Loqi
Hangouts is Google's messaging tool that supports chat, groups, SMS/MMS (on Android), and videoconferencing https://indieweb.org/Google_Hangouts
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sknebel
at least in how we use it, appear.in and talky are "click link, talk", I have no idea if it maintains anything
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sknebel
(I think you can sign up to accounts?)
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tantek
yeah appear and talky are worth separating
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sknebel
mumble as well
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sknebel
(also seems a bit odd to start the list on the /chat page with a bunch of videoconference services, but a start is a start I guess)
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tantek
but that's what they are - video chat
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sknebel
everything else on the page seems primarily about text chat, but yes, its not wrong
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tantek
right, we can make separate pages, I mean I already did for SMS since it is such a massive security vuln
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sknebel
I think I'll restore the specific note list for vHWC tomorrow (on a subpage maybe), then the list on chat can be split and the HWC-specific references cleaned up
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tantek
I can split the list on /chat
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tantek
also that pro/con presentation is a bit odd - and it creates headings that you can't click to because they're all named the same thing (first one "wins")
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sknebel
I get numbered ones?
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sknebel
(content again is specific for our virtual HWC concerns, so not necessarily important for /chat)
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tantek
that's actually worse
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tantek
when you add another one, the numbering changes
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tantek
so the permalinks "break" and misdirect you to a differnt spot
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Zegnat
Yeah, it was basically the documentation sknebel and I were using. Using the wiki as a live notepad. Wasn’t paying attention to the IDs on the headers.
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Zegnat
In fact, I may have had the TOC turned off on the vHWC page we were using for these notes
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sknebel
and hiding them from the TOC is something mediawiki doesn't like to do if I remember right
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Zegnat
Yeah, there is __NOTOC__ on the vHWC page
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tantek
sknebel: and now that Pros_3 link goes somewhere other than where it did when you posted it
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sknebel
yeah, those shouldn't be (easily) linkable
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Zegnat
Some of the cons (e.g. needing an account, or for Mumble the “hosted or rented by the organiser” comment) don’t make much sense outside of the evaluation-for-vhwc context either
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tantek
but by making them headings that's exactly what is intended
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Zegnat
To be fair, they should be easily linkable, they are headings subdividing sections, it’s just that the mediawiki chosen ID might not be the best for it
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sknebel
that'd be even better, but again not something mediawiki will easily let us do I suspect ;)
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sknebel
well, I'm going to go sleep now
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sknebel
good night everyone!
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Loqi
laila tov!
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Zegnat
Same here. Good night all!
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tantek
the comparison stuff might make more sense on the vHWC page
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[cleverdevil]
Hmm... a good database of site deaths - http://productgraveyard.com
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[cleverdevil]
(Also, hello, I have inexplicably survived most of the day!)
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schmarty
[cleverdevil]: hello and congrats on your continued survival! :}