#indieweb 2018-02-02

2018-02-02 UTC
benwerd, snarfed, gRegorLove_, [cleverdevil], KevinMarks, [keithjgrant], [miklb], awolf, eli_oat and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks] The data viz for showing bot follow clusters was very nice
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tantek yeah that bot clusters data viz was amazing
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[miklb] https://github.com/elaineo/FollowerFactory
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Loqi [elaineo] FollowerFactory: Create the scatterplots used in NYTimes' Follower Factory article.
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@Max100KC The IndieWeb outside of Facebook is full of opportunities https://tpl.host/1SFVHEI #vps #makeyourownlane #seo #leadership https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DU_-mxlXUAEFbnn.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/959265199193718784)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-02-02.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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tantek Twitter << 2018-01-27 New York Times: [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/27/technology/social-media-bots.html The Follower Factory] / Everyone wants to be popular online. Some even pay for it. Inside social media’s black market.
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-01-27 New York Times: [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/27/technology/social-media-bots.html The Follower Factory] / Everyone wants to be popular online. Some even pay for it. Inside social media’s black market." to the "See Also" section of /Twitter
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@ChrisAldrich That's a great #indieweb Christmas present. Congratulations! https://twitter.com/evrenk/status/959148056766754816?s=09 (twitter.com/_/status/959291078095482880)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "That's a great #indieweb Christmas present. Congratulations! https://twitter.com/evrenk/status/959148056766754816?s=09" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-02-02 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/thats-a-great-indieweb-christmas-present-congratulations-evrenkstatus959148056766754816s09
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Loqi [superfeedr] "📰 Read Write Respond #025" on 2018-02-02 https://mrkrndvs.tumblr.com/post/170406585902
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tantek Next meetups: Homebrew Website Club https://indieweb.org/events/2018-02-07-homebrew-website-club. Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log https://chat.indieweb.org/today
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DivByZero Good evening for all, anybody know how do this efect in second slide in this site? What is the name? http://xmas.evs.com/2018/
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strugee tantek: ping
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strugee was looking at your contact page and noticed you have an sms: scheme pointing at an email
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tantek strugee: did you try it?
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strugee and I was wondering what the UX of that looks like? do you route that address to your cell provider's email-to-sms gateway
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strugee tantek: I tapped on it to see what my SMS app (Signal) would do but didn't send anything
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tantek try it!
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strugee sent!
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tantek your SMS app has to be smart enough to register to handle "sms:" URLs and handle emails too. both iOS and Android defaults work fine
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tantek strugee: for more see /contact
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strugee tantek: right that's what I was looking at
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strugee does it actually go to your email?
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strugee https://github.com/strugee/strugee.github.com/issues/90 I'm thinking of using the same thing so I don't hav e to disclose my phone number publicly
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Loqi [strugee] #90 Publish an email alias that gets sent to my phone
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Ruxton you've set it to sms:<email> that's only going to work in iMessage? :(
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strugee Ruxton: nah, I'm on Android and it worked just fine. it creates an MMS
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Ruxton ahhh
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Ruxton That kind of flies in the face of rfc5724
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strugee anyway. back to homework lol
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tantek what's rfc5724?
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strugee > URI Scheme for Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) Short Message Service (SMS)
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strugee https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5724
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strugee to be fair it *does* basically say you can only put phone numbers in
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Ruxton the defintion of the SMS URI scheme
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strugee AFAICT
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tantek so consider it an extension
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strugee I'm sure some poor parser is choking on your contact page
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tantek good opportunity to write an update, since there are obviously deployed interop implementations
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tantek struggee - then my contact page is a good test case
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strugee :-)
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Ruxton interestingly Apple docs say phone number only too - https://developer.apple.com/library/content/featuredarticles/iPhoneURLScheme_Reference/SMSLinks/SMSLinks.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40007899-CH7-SW1
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strugee I wonder if that's actually true
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strugee tantek: you use an iPhone right? or am I thinking of aaronpk?
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tantek Ruxton: lol docs are so out of date with reality
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tantek strugee: nope. iPod Touch. since 2014
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tantek no phone number
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strugee ah gotcha
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strugee I guess that answers my question from earlier then
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Ruxton tantek: no doubt, be nice if people kept ther docs valid ;)
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@jjdelc Many nights spent reading w3 specs #indieweb #micropub (twitter.com/_/status/959320903854116864)
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strugee tantek: feel free to not answer but out of curiosity, why don't you have a phone number? just never felt the need for one?
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tantek strugee: http://tantek.com/2014/006/t2/ipod-wifi-mifi-works-iamnotanumber-nophone-future
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] 2014: left phone at home every day. iPod+wifi/mifi works. delete x-5278 #. #iamnotanumber #nophone #future Exception: I may start bringing my #FirefoxOS test phone with me for dogfooding, but I'm still not going to share or use the number.How to go #...
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strugee neat
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strugee good for you honestly
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strugee that's awesome
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@megarush1024 My sleep schedule is totally messed up thanks to coming down with the flue this week, so I took some of my current awake time to finish owning my bookmarks. I now have my Pocket feed as a subscription in PressForward on my personal site. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/959352752576004096)
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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Zegnat Good morning jeremycherfas :)
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jeremycherfas What's up with you?
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Zegnat Just got out of uni and waiting for my train home. So in the mean time, I am looking into Omnibear and the JavaScript micropub-helper
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jeremycherfas Oh yes, you had a very early start today ...
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Zegnat Yep. Not really worth it taking loans to move closer to uni, but also very early days whenever I am scheduled for the first hour.
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jeremycherfas Right decision, I reckon.
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Zegnat Not strictly indieweb, but ha, the national emergencies information portal of Sweden just issued a warning telling people to uninstall Adobe Flash: https://i.imgur.com/9ZmhWDG.png
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sebsel morning IndieWeb :)
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sknebel morning sebsel
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@sl007 @jeena 🎉 - hooray - @ballancier and /me are there too - we are happy to give you interviews ;)) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/959402902354882560)
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[eddie] Zegnat: that is awesome!! Haha
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Loqi [eddie]: lol
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[kevinmarks] Site death ? https://mashable.com/2018/02/01/yo-app-patreon-shut-down-crowdfunding-or-arbel/?utm_cid=hp-r-2#UmQGPrQ0yOqQ
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@khurtwilliams @ChrisAldrich Thank you. Any suggestions for a basic IndieWeb centric taxonomy for WordPress? (twitter.com/_/status/959447700214374400)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "This is the #IndieWeb, this is my blog" by Wences Garcia on 2018-02-02 http://www.wences.com/2018/02/02/this-is-the-indieweb-this-is-my-blog/
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gRegorLove Weird, I just got an email about a comment on a Google+ post. It's my profile photo update from 2016 and it says "shared privately." I don't know this person, not following them, but somehow they could comment on it?
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gRegorLove When I click on "shared privately" I see a list of names, all the people in my g+ circles basically. This person is listed there but when I click through to their profile it's empty and there's a "Follow" button.
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gRegorLove Confirmed they're not in any of my circles.
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[kevinmarks] If it's your profile photo, I think it is public
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@jonathanprozzi Check out this cool project from my coworker and fellow @indiewebcamp / @HWCBaltimore enthusiast! https://twitter.com/DJFalcon23/status/959327031942045696 (twitter.com/_/status/959497490763538433)
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snarfed gRegorLove: could also be someone you do know, who changed their name, profile picture, etc?
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gRegorLove Nah, pretty sure it's spam. No profile, single photo, don't recognize them
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gRegorLove Being the profile photo makes sense, just odd it reports "shared privately"
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[kevinmarks] It may be the activity of updating it was private, even though the photo was public
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snarfed gRegorLove: also sometimes people remove their name, profile photo, etc when they want to delete their account but can't figure out how, or something similar. (hence my q.)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@wences.com welcome to the IndieWeb! If you ..." by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-02-02 https://cleverdevil.io/2018/wencescom-welcome-to-the-indieweb-if-you
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@ChrisAldrich @scottedwards200 Free business idea: #IndieWeb solution for @DoorDash, @Postmates, et al. perhaps with a progressive web app? #PWA Restaurants already have a website, a payroll, and the rest of the overhead. What value are these companies really adding?… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/scottedwards200-free-business-idea-indieweb-solution-for-doordash-postmates-et (twitter.com/_/status/959534605069058049)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@scottedwards200 Free business idea: #IndieWeb solution for @DoorDash, @Postmates, et al. perhaps with a progressive web app? #PWA Restaurants already have a website, a payroll, and" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-02-02 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/scottedwards200-free-business-idea-indieweb-solution-for-doordash-postmates-et
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[miklb] isn’t that more DIY than indieweb?
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KartikPrabhu [miklb]: if it is related to "owning your data" on "your own domain" then DIY counts as indieweb
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: mblaney left you a message 6 days, 18 hours ago: I've updated the error messages on my auth endpoint. Would you mind trying again and letting me know what you get?
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-02-02.html
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chrisaldrich miklb, there was a bit of CRM/marketing/data discussion the other day that this might relate to: https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-01-31#t1517434861920100
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Loqi [aaronpk] Whoa apparently hootsuite has access to the instagram api to be able to post photos https://hootsuite.com/instagram
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GWG Afternoon
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chrisaldrich Howdy GWG!
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GWG I am hoping to finish my current Indieweb project this weekend
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chrisaldrich Lots of companies are giving up their data (and their customer's data) to third parties like DoorDash which handles the relationship and they're not giving enough value back in return.
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chrisaldrich Amazon is probably the biggest example of this as most vendors on the platform don't get much, if any real data from their customers, and in return Amazon is doing some shady things with that data that could ultimately put them out of business.
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chrisaldrich Anything we can help out with GWG?
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GWG chrisaldrich, still refactoring Simple Location. I removed dozens of lines of redundant code, rearranged a lot of what remains, worked on removing or changing UI elements
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GWG Also just found a vulnerability report on a library used in the development version of Syndication Links, so I might need to substitute another tool
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tantek good day #indieweb!
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GWG Hello, tantek?
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[kevinmarks] Afternoon tantek
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gRegorLove chrisaldrich, I think step 1 of that indieweb food-delivery thing would be getting restaurants to have non-PDF menus on their site :)
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tantek lol
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tantek yeah, get them to pay you to convert them to SVG ;)
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gRegorLove hahah
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Loqi hehe
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[cleverdevil] Interesting question related to: http://help.micro.blog/2018/replies-and-mentions/
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[cleverdevil] It specifies that "For blogs hosted externally to Micro.blog, such as with WordPress, you are responsible for linking usernames for Micro.blog users you want to mention. Just including @username without a link will have no effect."
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[cleverdevil] And then directs you to wrap your "@username" in a link.
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aaronpk that makes sense
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[cleverdevil] Problem is, for me on Known, the Status Update content type doesn't support HTML.
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aaronpk same for me with my text posts
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[cleverdevil] At least, not that I can tell.
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[cleverdevil] So, I am wondering if that's a flaw in Known, or a poor assumption on Micro.blog's part.
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[cleverdevil] Since Micro.blog is about, well, micro-blogging.
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aaronpk I have to first create an entry in my nicknames cache so that when I use an @-name in a post it links to the right URL
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Zegnat I would say it is a flaw in Known that it assumes your status posts are always plaintext only.
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[cleverdevil] nods.
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aaronpk micro.blog can't make assumptions about @-usernames that you use on your own site
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Zegnat You can offer plaintext only, but then you probably also want to offer some autolinking feature that includes autolinking people. That’s what silos do internally, and for your indieweb site you will need a way to provide the link for username-linking
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[miklb] prior to micro.blog, I wrote a little WP plugin to link to @-usernames to Twitter. I’ve been contemplating how to improve there to include micro.blog or at least differentiate
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snarfed https://indieweb.org/nicknames-cache
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Zegnat So here is a question: is anyone collating their medical records?
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[miklb] snarfed interesting. I’m wondering if a custom post type for person would be the way to go in WP. (note in WP CPT the post != note/article necessarily.)
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[miklb] could tie into commentmeta… 🤔
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-02-02.html
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snarfed [miklb]: iirc GWG may have some experience trying to do nicknames-cache in WP
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snarfed maybe related to venues
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GWG Only conceptualizing it
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GWG Never implemented
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[miklb] I know I’ve seen it discussed. I think one idea was to tie them into the user table irrc
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snarfed Zegnat: i have EMR experience from my day job. [kevinmarks] too i think. happy to answer q's
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snarfed short answer is, i wouldn't recommend prioritizing it. owning them yourself, sure; indiewebifying them, usually not so useful just yet, since most people won't want to publish them either publicly or privately
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GWG miklb, that was me.
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Zegnat I am getting my eyes checked again this month to update my prescription. And I was thinking of publishing that data. Partly for me, because I always lose track of it and it is a hassle to request the hardcopy.
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aaronpk I think my cat should publish her medical records on her site too
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Zegnat I also wanted to get my blood type out there, never know when people might need that information, and from there it turns out I do not know my blood type. Or have any other medical records to speak of.
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Zegnat So now I am spiralling down into the world of requesting hard copies and private information and what nots.
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snarfed understood! sounds like you definitely want to own your medical records....but that doesn't necessarily mean publishing it
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snarfed yeah, hence not prioritizing it. EMR is infinitely deep, complicated, and opaque. often lots of effort for uncertain/low return
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snarfed re blood type, try bracelet or wallet card. the people you most want to have it, like EMTs/medics, may find it there, but they won't be looking up your web site :P
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[chrisaldrich] I spent a few hours thinking about EMRs after the Amazon story earlier this week. Certainly a heavy problem. We could use lots of new microformats for it!
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sknebel and will probably run a test card anyways
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snarfed for US people here, https://picnichealth.com/ and https://www.medfusion.com/solutions-for/patients/#post-4074 are both worth trying
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snarfed re EMR indieweb and microformats, start with use cases, as usual
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[miklb] not that you can currently get much back out of the Health app as far as data, so no idea if it would be that useful.
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Zegnat snarfed, even for a bracelet or wallet card, I am still going to need to know my blood type
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[miklb] Apple is supposed to be doing work in that area for the Health app from what I’ve read
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snarfed Zegnat: definitely! but you don't need to *publish* it.
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Zegnat I didn’t *need* to publish my length and weight at birth either, didn’t stop me.
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi hahahaha
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snarfed you can definitely choose to, sure
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Zegnat I just hoped I could quickly grab my medical records from the Swedish portal. But for some reason, they have 0 of my records. So now I am back to following paper trails and copying hard copies. Will try my best this month, probably.
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Zegnat There will definitely be some sort of fine line between what I do and do not publish though. I still think not publishing DNA is the right thing to do
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snarfed hah now you're squarely in my day job
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[eddie] Regarding the micro.blog @-username discussion above. Because I use micro.blog as my primary social engagement besides my site, I built in logic that first auto-links @-names to my nickname cache. If no results are found, then it assumes @-name is a micro.blog username and autolinks as such
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[eddie] That happens when the micropub request is recieved
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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aaronpk I think this kind of logic is going to be highly dependent on the individual
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[eddie] exactly
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Zegnat snarfed, seems like an interesting job. Happen to need an intern who needs a subject for his bachelor thesis in statistics? ;)
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snarfed Zegnat: heh. maybe, if you'll come to SF!
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[miklb] eddie that makes sense. I was just running it through my head to have a checkbox for preference for each user and one for the default fall back
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tantek oops I was going to fix the NYU dfn
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tantek before the newsletter
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tantek then storify rathole
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[kevinmarks] https://www.medal.com will help you get your EMR but mainly US
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Zegnat snarfed, would be interesting, but SF sounds expensive, haha. There are probably opportunities closer to home too.
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-02-02.html (twitter.com/_/status/959565854970015744)
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snarfed [kevinmarks]++ we looked primarily at Human API and MedFusion. Medal looks similar. Redox's and Datica's setup per provider was too heavyweight. any others we should know of?
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Loqi kevinmarks has 221 karma in this channel (297 overall)
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snarfed (will move to -chat if we get too off topic)
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tantek aww no photos this week
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tantek also forgot about this - https://thoughtstreams.io/latest/
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tantek this seems like it has indieweb opportunities written all over it - but I can't quite figure out what it is
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tantek what is
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tantek ThoughtStreams
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tantek what is ThoughtStreams
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ThoughtStreams" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ThoughtStreams is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel ThoughtStreams is https://thoughtstreams.io/, a (micro-)blogging silo where users can have multiple "streams" for posting about different topics.
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Loqi ok
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sknebel ?
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[cleverdevil] Whew, got sidetracked from my earlier conversation with a phone call.
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[cleverdevil] So, it sounds like I need to open a ticket with Known to make it possible to create HTML posts, or at a minimum, to craft @-mentions.
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[cleverdevil] I almost feel like a standard method for translating plain-text @-mentions into the proper format for webmentions would be cool.
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[cleverdevil] Like: @twitter:cleverdevil
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[cleverdevil] Or, @micro.blog:cleverdevil
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[cleverdevil] Then, have Known convert that to the appropriate thing.
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[cleverdevil] But, its so complex, when you have to syndicate this out to other places 😕
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[cleverdevil] (FWIW, this works fine for Twitter, already... its just Micro.blog where it doesn't... so perhaps I could just hack that into my feed)/
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tantek sure, three pieces of punctuation (@ . :) what could possibly go wrong?
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[miklb] ooh. I could do that with my WP plugin right now, work on user/nick cache later
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sknebel idly wonders if mastodon+bridgy fed works on non-standard ports: @example.com:8080@example.com:8080
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snarfed hmm. maybe! i don't think it will include port in the username, but should hopefully work otherwise
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tantek did no one else care about the fragility argument?
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tantek Wow I don't know where to put this one. Dogfood fail? https://digiday.com/media/facebook-execs-turn-twitter-publisher-charm-offensive/
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tantek maybe just FB page is good enough for now since it's a criticism of them
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tantek Facebook << 2018-02-01 Digiday: [https://digiday.com/media/facebook-execs-turn-twitter-publisher-charm-offensive/ The Facebook execs who turn to Twitter for publisher charm offensive]<blockquote>…an acknowledgment that Twitter is beloved by one of its core constituents, journalists, and is a more effective way to respond to critics in real time than Facebook itself.</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-02-01 Digiday: [https://digiday.com/media/facebook-execs-turn-twitter-publisher-charm-offensive/ The Facebook execs who turn to Twitter for publisher charm offensive]<blockquote>…an acknowledgment that Twitter is beloved by one of its core constituents, journalists, and is a more effective way to respond to critics in real time than Facebook itself.</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
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sknebel maybe not entirely dogfood fail since it's reacting to stuff not happening on FB (although you can of course ask why FB can't syndicate to twitter :P)
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tantek right
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tantek was just thinking of replying to https://twitter.com/Digiday/status/958936735043473408 why not POSSE to Twitter instead? https://indieweb.org/Twitter#POSSE
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@Digiday Oddly enough, Twitter has become the go-to forum for Facebook execs as the platform battles pushback over algorithm changes, spammy ads and the spread of misinformation. https://trib.al/zxXFdRr (twitter.com/_/status/958936735043473408)
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[cleverdevil] Three pieces of punctuation is easier for me than crafting a link 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I still don't think we have a good solution, personally.
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aaronpk there's nothing wrong with microsyntax for your own site as long as it translates to HTML in the end
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[miklb] I think I’ll just reduce micro.blog to mb and cut one out 😛
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[cleverdevil] That's my point, exactly.
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[cleverdevil] Just make it easy to do The Right Thing.
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Zegnat Or go the Mastodon way? @cleverdevil@twitter and @cleverdevil@mb
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aaronpk you can drop the leading @ and still be able to parse that
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tantek [cleverdevil]: perhaps. I suppose it's FOUR pieces of punctuation that is taken too far, as evidence by the "can't ever remember the order to put markdown linking syntax []() or ()[]" problem
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Zegnat Yeah, I just personally like having a clear starting mark aaronpk
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sknebel here is somewhat prior art from sebsel https://seblog.nl/2017/06/14/6/at-mentioning-people
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] @-mentioning people on my blog
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tantek what is a person-mention
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Loqi person mention is a homepage webmention sent to a person's homepage https://indieweb.org/person-mention
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tantek sknebel: perhaps add to that ^^^
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tantek wow this image is amazing: https://digiday.com/media/losing-hope-facebook-tells-publishers-big-change-coming-news-feed/
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Zegnat Also, if you have a starting mark, you can have @cleverdevil pull a default from a nickname cache and @cleverdevil@mb pull the specific URL identified as “mb” for the same person.
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tantek I can't even https://i0.wp.com/digiday.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/zuckerberg2.jpg
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[cleverdevil] I don't even like the Markdown solution.
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[cleverdevil] I *greatly* prefer the simplicity that Twitter offers.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: me neither. but I can't explain why so many people prefer it to mediawiki syntax which uses two (maybe 3?) punctuation
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[cleverdevil] 😉
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tantek (for a link)
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[cleverdevil] The simplest syntax that can be easily translated to the proper outputs would make me happy.
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aaronpk in the end this comes down to a CMS feature, where the output is HTML. the interoperable bit is the HTML, so everyone can choose their own microsyntax they use on their site
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[cleverdevil] It does seem to be a CMS feature.
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aaronpk you don't even need special handling in micropub clients, since the micropub client will assume it's posting text, and then your server will do the transform to html
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[cleverdevil] I may try and hack on a feature for Known using a simple-ish syntax in my Known plugin that does customizations for my site.
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aaronpk (autocomplete in micropub clients would be great but that's something different)
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[cleverdevil] Yup a full address-book feature would be ideal.
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tantek "full" lol
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aaronpk doesn't even have to be "full" to be useful!
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[miklb] does anyone automate their nickname cache? Are they automatically stored from webmentions?