#indieweb 2018-04-24

2018-04-24 UTC
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[jgmac1106] as a call back to the infographic of 7 Deadly Sins the discussion missed the whole point. And I did the same thing with the shark, dolphin pirhanna..."Well you know that's a freshwater..." It's like the new grammar police.. pointing out visual or metaphorical discongruities in our multimodal lives... Discussing whether Netflix fits the definition of a "silo" misses the salient point that these technologies draw upon our base instincts in ways th
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[jgmac1106] behavior society has long abhorred.
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tantek good evening #indieweb
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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[pfefferle] good morning
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Loqi morning!
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jeremycherfas Morning all.
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Zegnat Good morning jeremycherfas :)
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jeremycherfas Hello zegnat
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dgold hey hey
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jeremycherfas Wotcher dgold
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[jgmac1106] Morning all
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[unoabraham] We need an IndieWeb glossary page.
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Loqi [unoabraham]: jeremycherfas left you a message 1 week ago: That's the bit I wrestle with. My different domains reflect different aspects of me, but not all of those aspects have an identity on a silo. There's only one of me on FB and IG, and two on Twitter. I still don't know how best to organise things.
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[jgmac1106] Morning all
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petermolnar [unoabraham]: feel free to start one :)
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petermolnar what is Glossary?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Glossary" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Glossary is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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petermolnar ^^^ there
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jeremycherfas I can't get my head straight on whether Loqi has a list of jargon words to remind people not to use. If so, that would be a great starting point for a Glossary.
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@dshanske How I Set Up My Indieweb WordPress Site - 2018 Edition - https://di5.us/b/XR (twitter.com/_/status/988730048013324288)
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sknebel jeremycherfas: it was proposed, but doesn't exist yet
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jeremycherfas Ah. Thanks.
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[unoabraham] Glossary is an alphabetical list of words relating to a specific subject, text, or dialect, with explanations; a brief dictionary.
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Loqi ok
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sknebel [unoabraham]: what would you use a glossary page for? (what does it do differently than looking something up in the wiki?)
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[unoabraham] Anyone can point me to how Loqi works?
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jeremycherfas Who is loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/User:Loqi.me
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petermolnar https://github.com/aaronpk/Loqi
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Loqi [aaronpk] Loqi: Loqi is a friendly IRC bot
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petermolnar but parts of it is secret knowledge for which the custodian is aaronpk
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[unoabraham] @sknebel - It would help. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around micropub and microsub.
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sknebel and how would a glossary page help?
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[unoabraham] As a quick reference and bookmark.
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jeremycherfas I agree that the introduction at /microsub is not clear, at least not to me. Will have a little play.
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[jgmac1106] [unoabraham] I am doing some initial research about Wordpress users and indieweb stuff. Definitions are tricky as they do need more technical documentation for stuff like MicroPub. Going to make more useful stuff for gen2 and gen3 audiences (though while I know we are referring to product conflating users with generations is a bad idea)
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[jgmac1106] I would love help on the project, for now athe gloaary is the wiki just query the term in search
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[jgmac1106] [jeremycherfas] If you want to hold off for a week or so I can try and include each plug-in the cognitive labs with users (they have to activate each one anyway)
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[jgmac1106] or if you send me the repo I can take a try at rewording it for a user audience rather than developer audience
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Zegnat I think jeremycherfas would put him self right into the non-technical audience, so I am interested to see what introduction he can come up with :)
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sknebel yes, the initial definitions on the wiki should always skew towards easy to understand, even on technical topics
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jeremycherfas Sorry [jgmac1106] but this was about /microsub not a plugin and I just couldn't wait any longer.
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[jgmac1106] just watching my first video for example, the indieweb plug-in installer (I would actually change the name of the plug-in) has a getting started instruction page. I think with a bit of clean up that can help a bunch
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[jgmac1106] oops wrong channe;
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[kevinmarks] I'm getting micropub microsub and WebPub mixed up now and I have been doing this stuff for years.
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[kevinmarks] The names aren't distinct enough
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[jgmac1106] then you mix in micro.blog which uses the word microblog, as it was intended, but ispowered by micropub which has nothing to do with length
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[kevinmarks] Google's podcast index https://play.google.com/music/podcasts/publish?u=0#
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tomasparks has anybody got a activitypub setup that I can look at?
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[snarfed] setup?
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[kaushal_modi] What is gen2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "gen2" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "gen2 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[kaushal_modi] [jgmac1106] ^^ gen2 gen3?
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tomasparks https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/
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sknebel What is generations?
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Loqi Generations in the context of the IndieWeb refer to clusters of potential IndieWeb adopters in a series of waves that are expected to naturally adopt the IndieWeb for themselves and then help inform the next generation https://indieweb.org/generations
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[snarfed] Mastodon does AP, if that answers your question. also https://fed.brid.gy
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sknebel [kaushal_modi]: ^^^
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[kaushal_modi] sknebel++ thanks
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Loqi sknebel has 32 karma in this channel (94 overall)
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tomasparks I am trying to understand by example the "Followers Collection" and "Following Collection"
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[jgmac1106] but think about the terminology. You then have to refer to a new user who joins the community as a gen2 meaning they will know they aren't a gen1. Generation as a chronological meaning, nothing to do with different user personas or skill levels IMO. It's okay just not totally inclusive or inviting
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[jgmac1106] Folks will know they don't have the coding skills of people in this room but that doesn't mean they may not want them. Can a gen3 user become a gen2 user or a gen1 user or is that a badge of how long you have been contributing to the community?
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[jgmac1106] Also comes down to what is open and what is open and broadcasted. As an open community didn't have to think about perceptions as much as the open channels weren't as public, less broadcasting, as community grows much of what never left the open spaces (jargon, etc) becomes more public
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[jgmac1106] though arguing about defintions is a great way to stay busy without building. I think I can see the value in looking at waves of users as generations of product users as well
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[jgmac1106] Indieauth isn't signing me into the wiki anymore. I did just update my Wordpress indieauth plug-in
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: you might need to click "refresh" on the indieauth.com proimpt
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[jgmac1106] in Chrome I got a timeout error
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aaronpk try again? I can see your auth options just fine in a browser
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snarfed bought and hooked up a new bridgy.org domain, as a hedge in case guyana ever starts mishandling .gy like .ly and .io have been already
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aaronpk also there's a new "IndieAuth" button there thanks to the new wordpress plugin!
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aaronpk snarfed++ good idea
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Loqi snarfed has 307 karma in this channel (378 overall)
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[jgmac1106] no but when I go to indieauth and try to authenticate there I run into no problems
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[jgmac1106] trying to authenticate to indieweb.org not onto my wordpress site
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klez I noticed this too this morning, I authenticate but the home page of indieweb.org still asks me to login. But as soon as I navigate to another page in the website, I'm actually logged in
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aaronpk klez: i think that's a caching bug on the home page specifically
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: which part specifically is timing out?
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[jgmac1106] I get to authenticate with twitter or indieauth the runs then on Chrome it timed out. On FF it just brought me back to indieweb.org but not logged in
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[jgmac1106] need to go talk in #wordpress though as I lost my indieauth log in on wp-admin
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swentel hmm sometimes, indieweb.org doesn't reflect the authentication immediately
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swentel going to a subpage then and then it's ok
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swentel oh, that was already mentioned
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swentel nevermind :)
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[jgmac1106] i had indieauth endpoint and not local endpoint checked. Just blindly went through without thinking and checked anythign that said indieauth
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[jgmac1106] was able to log into wiki, still no endpoints on wordpress, but that's a wordpress problem
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jgmac1106 okay signed back into my irc client…..and now I realize where all this debate on the word client came from, an IRC hold out
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk it's actually from spec terminology, "clients and servers"
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aaronpk not a good term for user-facing stuff, but is more explicit when talking to developers about specs
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jgmac1106 though I am using “colloquy” and how do I join the different channels is each a seperate chat room?
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aaronpk usually if you type /join #indieweb-dev in the text box the irc client will join the new room
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tantek oops he left
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aaronpk he's on slack too :)
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tantek !tell jgmac1106 you want to /join #indieweb-meta and then ask further questions there :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] one day I will figure out difference of indieweb and indieweb-meta, didnd't think I was talking meta about indieweb
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snarfed RIP bridgy publish for facebook. https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/2018/04/24/new-facebook-platform-product-changes-policy-updates/
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snarfed RSVPs dead today, posts dead august 1
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aaronpk wat
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aaronpk "The publish_actions permission will be deprecated. This permission granted apps access to publish posts to Facebook as the logged in user."
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aaronpk "Developers currently utilizing publish_actions are encouraged to switch to Facebook's Share dialogs" 😱
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snarfed yuuuup
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aaronpk wow that's insane
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snarfed i'd say it's a relief, but most of my work keeping up with their API changes has been on the read side, not write, so meh
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jgmac1106 Perfect business response to a crisis, let's use this opportunity to solidify our position
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aaronpk checks https://twitter.com/buffer/with_replies to see if they're also freaking out about this
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aaronpk buffer managed to get a deal with instagram to be able to post photos directly
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aaronpk let's find out https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/988850513889316864
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@aaronpk @buffer Does this Facebook API announcement mean publishing to Facebook from Buffer will stop working? https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/2018/04/24/new-facebook-platform-product-changes-policy-updates/ (twitter.com/_/status/988850513889316864)
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[cleverdevil] Silos gonna silo.
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@RoboePi En el #WCMadrid, @ciudadanoB nos asignó una misión: sanear la #Web de nuevo a través de blogs, resucitar la #IndieWeb. Aquí va mi reseña de la @WordCampMad: https://blog.virgulilla.com/wordcamp-madrid-2018/ Cc/ @esterlegaz @rociovaldi @javig @albero (twitter.com/_/status/988852730415452160)
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snarfed aaronpk i'm trying to find when you said if you lost facebook backfeed (or publish?), you might just delete your account altogether :P
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snarfed (no luck so far)
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aaronpk hahaha
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-03-21/1521663786010100
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Loqi [aaronpk] if bridgy stops being able to backfeed facebook responses i might just stop using facebook :P
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snarfed there we go
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aaronpk for real tho, I'm probably going to add something to my facebook bio now telling people other ways to follow me
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dgold aaronpk: is there a way to follow twitter in monocle/aperture?
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aaronpk yeah via granary.io
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aaronpk works pretty well!
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snarfed well ideally https://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ ...but sure granary too
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aaronpk why ideally?
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snarfed eh, it used to have better hardening for volume, abuse, etc...but now granary does too, so i dunno
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aaronpk oh cause it would use my twitter API keys instead of the shared ones?
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snarfed ah yes still that. also decent UI for the actual use case
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dgold thanks snarfed!
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aaronpk dgold: also i have my own little streaming twitter search running and it writes the tweets directly to aperture channels, so that's always an option (not an easy option)
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dgold snarfed++ ; I looked at twitter-atom.appspot.co months ago, but didn't have a good interaction model then
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Loqi snarfed has 308 karma in this channel (380 overall)
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aaronpk yeah granary/twitter-atom are way more useful now that i can add them to an interface where i can also reply to the posts!
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dgold precisely!
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dgold i was looking at a fever<->microsub bridge idea, but there's just too many points of difference
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dgold unless... I could mark each microsub channel as a _feed_...
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snarfed dgold: oh interesting. i don't have fever on https://snarfed.org/microsub-bridge#list , but i'd love to add it!
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snarfed feel free to send a PR on https://github.com/snarfed/snarfed.org/blob/master/microsub_bridge.txt
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@RoboePi En el #WCMadrid, @ciudadanoB nos asignó una misión: sanear la #Web de nuevo a través de blogs, resucitar la #IndieWeb. ¡Somos la #ResistenciaWCMadrid! Como primer paso, aquí va mi reseña de la @WordCampMad: https://blog.virgulilla.com/wordcamp-madrid-2018/ Cc/ @esterlegaz @rociovaldi @javig @albero (twitter.com/_/status/988857814272626692)
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dgold snarfed: twitter-atom - to use the list feature, does the list have to be public?
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dgold nvm - it appears to work
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[jgmac1106] I use Martin Hawkseys TAG explorer to back up tons of Twitter searches to gSheets.
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[kimberlyhirsh] But Bridgy hasn't lost Facebook backfeed yet? That's definitely what will drive me away, too.
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dgold snarfed: sadly, fever's api is woefully inadequately specc'd
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dgold https://feedafever.com/api
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@tomasparksts to watch "Decentralized Web Summit 2018: Global Visions/Working Code" on July 31-August 2 #indieweb @indieweb https://decentralizedweb.net/ (twitter.com/_/status/988870626482896899)
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snarfed tantek: https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-04-24/1524594990177100
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Loqi [snarfed] RIP bridgy publish for facebook. https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/2018/04/24/new-facebook-platform-product-changes-policy-updates/
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snarfed also, unrelated, twitter GDPR compliance and more: https://gdpr.twitter.com/ , https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2018/continuing-our-commitments-to-privacy-and-transparency.html
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[cleverdevil] !tell [schmarty] I am going to use `screech` in a presentation for a meetup next week, FYI! I've deployed it to Lambda as a good example of how to run any off-the-shelf WSGI app on AWS Lambda.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek snarfed ouch re: RIP BP for FB
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snarfed yup. think you'll go back to manual?
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tantek good q
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tantek I am using FB much less this year than last
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tantek "using" as in reading / checking etc
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tantek still haven't checked notifications since I got back from Costa Rica (3+ months now)
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tantek my notes have been POSSEd via Twitter to FB as private-only since then too - and I haven't bothered switching them (manually) to friends-only
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tantek I've been POSSEing photos just by default, all interactions on FB have been dropping
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tantek my peer group / friends are using it less and less
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tantek this is too bad though: Deprecation Effective today, allowing an app to RSVP to a Facebook Event on behalf of the viewer will be deprecated.
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snarfed yup
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tantek snarfed, the most interactions I'm seeing come from Instagram posts
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tantek everything else is 1/10th that
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tantek then FB if it's a photo
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tantek then tweets
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tantek then other FB posts
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aaronpk wonder how they pulled that off https://twitter.com/buffer/status/988915108620505088
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@buffer @aaronpk Great question, Aaron! No, these changes won't affect our ability to post on your behalf; that'll be a-ok to keep working :) -Daniel (twitter.com/_/status/988915108620505088)
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aaronpk now to go see if buffer has an API...
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aaronpk 🤔 https://buffer.com/developers/api/updates#updatescreate
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