#indieweb 2018-12-05
2018-12-05 UTC
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Loqi movim is an XMPP based social network frontend with microblog-like web publishing features, written in PHP and JavaScript https://indieweb.org/movim
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viaken I don't think her argument is against the/an indieweb, so much as it is against "there can only be indieweb". I don't see any harm in both being available.
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KartikPrabhu well this indieweb really never says that so sounds like a "strawman".
# KartikPrabhu things like POSSE and backfeed exist for exactly that reason
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# sl0071 good morning / *waves can do*
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[jgmac1106] I can @swentel
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swentel alright, here it is https://realize.be/blog/send-me-webmention-drupal
# [jgmac1106] In step one I would remove sentence am about overview
# [jgmac1106] That is a different task and therefore different step
# [jgmac1106] Readers understand tutorials more when it is one task per step
# [jgmac1106] Overall great job,. Right on target for audience
# sl0071 Agreed. Nice piece !
# [jgmac1106] I might have made microformats it's own post since there are not technically needed for webmentions
# [jgmac1106] Also step one says I add an mf2 module but then it seems you want me to manually add them in step three
# [jgmac1106] Maybe change that to "Configure Microformats Module"
# [jgmac1106] Less inference for the reader... Great job...
# sl0071 Zegnat - have read' back - https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-12-04 "I would donate some programming time to whoever has a good solution" - how about adding it to "ideas" for https://indieweb.org/2019/Vlissingen#Planning :
# [jgmac1106] Hey if you ever want to hop on a video chat and walk ne through install we can make it a tutorial series
# sl0071 Zegnat It would be amazing if we could just have some tasks to hack together for the week with tasks like "recommendation engine" / "discovery" / "search" / "indiereader ui" and so - off yourse with a good remote collaboration tool
# [jgmac1106] Let's book out time in December when I am in between semesters... And your performance is done
# [jgmac1106] Series of 3-5 minute videos. Probably 76-10 of them. I can handle the editing if you can be teqcher
# swentel sknebel, I've added a note at the bottom with a like to https://indieweb.org/responses, but the main example is now a reply. Clearer step now!
# [jgmac1106] Perfect. Take 10-15 minutes a day. Or 2-3 hours q'all at once
# [jgmac1106] Could do special vHWC-Europe... Special as in not Mumble
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# [jgmac1106] So I run no analytics don't care, but Glitch does. Samizdat has close to 10k uniques in under a week...ight be on to something
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# [jgmac1106] Seven remixes... Yeah it's just a UI on GitHub commits in a way
# [jgmac1106] @zegnat do you mean in a theoretical or technical sense of "make work"
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bradenslen Good morning Indieweb
# bradenslen !tell chrisaldrich re: discovery engine. You might explore https://yacy.net/en/index.html if you can put an instance up on your own server it might help
# bradenslen !tell chrisaldrich correction that should be re. recommendation engine
# [jgmac1106] @bradenslen feel free to add to https //indieweb.org/recommendation_engine#brainstorming
# bradenslen Is that a real page? You're going to get me stuck down the wiki rabbit hole again! :-)
# bradenslen Ah found it. Wiki search for the win.
# kisik21 I wish I had a big pile of money
# kisik21 then I'd donate to micro.blog so the barrier for indieweb entry would be lower
# kisik21 so they could run free blogs
# kisik21 I feel like there's a problem about indieweb that it requires (relatively small though, if you look at US) money to run
# kisik21 I pay around $1 per month for a domain, and while that is really cheap, I feel some people are stuck with silos because they don't have even this kind of money and knowledge where to spend it
# [jgmac1106] @kisik21 hitting on important point.. Manual until it hurts will never work for someone who does manual labor even though it hurts
# kisik21 I think I need to get back to work on my site because I need to write a post about that...
# kisik21 the only motivation for working on my site
# [jgmac1106] I am trying to encourage Mozilla to do a fundraiser where you sponsor domains and storage for people
# [jgmac1106] Donate $20 to Mozilla and buy someone a website for a year...
# [jgmac1106] Also putting in a ton of grants and have a 'eeting today with a Kenyan Government official trying to increase digital literacy
# [jgmac1106] Glad though micro.blog didn't choose freemiun models. Not sustainable... Too much time dedicated to non revenue generating customers
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# bradenslen [jgmac1106] and Zegnat Thanks. I added it to the recommendation engine page.
# [jgmac1106] @kisik21 @Glitch is doing a cool promo... If you help two people they give you a custom domain. I don't know node.js (and a bazillion other things) but want to get lightweight blogging platform up on there
# [jgmac1106] [grantcodes] [kevinmarks] and a few others going to help
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[manton] [eddie] [chrisaldrich] Catching up on the conversation about "listen posts"... One comment I have: I don't think feeds for these posts should include the audio tag or RSS attachment. It makes it seem like you created the recording instead of just linking to it. (It's kind of like if when you link to someone's web page, you include the entire text of their web page in your post too.)
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[chrisaldrich] I think that as long as it's specifically marked as a listen post (and not a podcast post) it's marked as something I didn't produce. Thus including the enclosure, which points to the original and let's the owner count downloads can only help others in discovery of the thing.
# Loqi [chrisaldrich]: bradenslen left you a message 2 hours, 50 minutes ago: re: discovery engine. You might explore https://yacy.net/en/index.html if you can put an instance up on your own server it might help
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# [chrisaldrich] If it's properly marked as a listen, I would submit that it's far less sketchy than a standard repost which copies copywritten text/photos which I didn't create and which doesn't provide as much benefit to the creator who misses out on the click or download altogether.
# [chrisaldrich] I wouldnt consider doing it if I was hosting the audio myself.
# [chrisaldrich] It's also less sketchy than what Apple could be doing as a podcast aggregator, but in my case I'm not doubt it at scale and my recommendation is actually more valuable as I'm not just saying a podcast simply exists, but I've actually put skin in the game and listened to it and posted about it.
# [chrisaldrich] S/doubt/doing
# [manton] Yeah, I'm going to think more about how best to handle these. My gut feeling was that by including an audio tag, you're kind of implying that it's your content, because 99% of the time that is how audio tags are used, I think. Not totally sure because listen posts are kind of a new thing, to me.
# [chrisaldrich] [manton] perhaps the difference on micro.blogs discovery section is in presentation? Is it listens you're presenting or podcast feeds by creators? This might be better delineated by using 🎙vs 🎧 and explicitly separating those?
# [chrisaldrich] All mine include a listen-of which should make them roughly filterable.
# [chrisaldrich] Though it would be nice if mb also had a listen discovery section to advertise what people are listening to in the podcast arena. No social platforms really do that now and actual listens are FAR more valuable than just recommendations of "this is great" which spread too far based on social pressures.
# [chrisaldrich] Downloading and self hosting someone's podcast isnt easy (or cheap). Pointing to it is much simpler.
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# [chrisaldrich] I call them faux-casts on purpose. But if you have someone you trust, it's easy to subscribe to their feed and get the enclosures which still come from the pucks who gets download credit and their ads.
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# [Vincent] UK Parliament has just released a lot of the six4three files they seized the other week: https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Note-by-Chair-and-selected-documents-ordered-from-Six4Three.pdf
# [chrisaldrich] Apple is doing roughly the same thing, but there's a reason they don't host the content.
# [Vincent] The files are pretty damming
# [chrisaldrich] Post kinds parses pages and uses original photos (but doesn't use them yet) for things like reposts but I think this isn't much different than Twitter OGP data except your server doesn't get pinged for traffic since Twitter caches it.
# [chrisaldrich] The publisher misses the traffic, which can be beneficial, but also misses out on the potential numbers on the spread of the post or img.
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# chrisaldrich I wrote about some blue sky for podcast apps and IndieWeb a while back, perhaps I'll spend some time today to sketch out my thinking on listen posts since it's an area that's not well represented in the current social space, but which I think should be.
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# [jgmac1106] [manton] I meant more in my social reader..if the reader saw an audio tag one of my post I could publish with the micropub client would be a listen post. That button would not be there if no <audio> tag present
# [jgmac1106] here is how I write my listen posts https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/pages/templates
# [jgmac1106] my WYSWIG strips out the p-category data value but Known converts hashtags into p-category with a rel=tag
# [jgmac1106] [manton] I did wonder being such an emoji place if the correct html could be rendered that way
# [jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] someday connecting it all to voice commands on my phone is the dream....or somebody building micropub client directly into podcast player so the listen-of post publishes upon completion
# chrisaldrich here's that blue sky for the tape: https://boffosocko.com/2018/09/11/blue-sky-sketch-for-overcast/
# [jgmac1106] why aren't there good, past, present, future emoji...finish I could do with checkered flag, but don't know what want-to and listening would be
# [jgmac1106] ohh reminds me [aaronpk] we need to propose the not it emoji...I have heard three people pretend to use it in the last two days
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# [chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] for want to listen to (typically only on my backend as drafts or private posts) I use 🔖 🎧
# [jgmac1106] yeah just had this idea about microblog since it is so emoji driven...could post types be driven by emojis?
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# [chrisaldrich] there's a pretty good 1-1 mapping of them here: https://indieweb.org/posts#Types_of_Posts
# [chrisaldrich] I actually use huffduffer's RSS in conjunction with IFTTT to add (private) want to listen posts on my site. The huffduffer bookmarklet then becomes my "poor man's micropub client".
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[kevinmarks] BBC summary of some key points
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aaronpk anomalily++ for https://twitter.com/anomalily/status/1070319670798893056
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@anomalily If you are person over 30 who cares about the social internet professionally, you really should be following the melt down on tumblr. Not like, on twitter. Get you an account on the hellsite, follow some youths as it all burns down. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtqKEPYU4AAGQ0m.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1070319670798893056)
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# [kevinmarks] I have a tumblr, I just don't use it
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# [kevinmarks] mastodon is seeing a tumblr influx; there's some effort to get people to fan out to different instances
# [kevinmarks] Facebook criticism https://twitter.com/cher/status/1070400022661992448?s=19
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@cher Facebook Gave Some Companies Special Access to Users’ Data, Documents Show via @NYTimes How Long Are We going to Let Zuckerberg Get away With This... “Aw Shucks,Im Just a Kid” 🐂💩⁉️ https://nyti.ms/2E3wHbm?smid=nytcore-ios-share (twitter.com/_/status/1070400022661992448)
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[tantek] I get it for folks who don't have smartphones, yes we need free-ish indieweb solutions. However if you're paying for a smartphone, you're already making a discretionary decision far beyond what you "need", so it is reasonable to say hey, consider using a fraction of that cost to instead own your data on your own site. (nevermind setup/maintenance cost/complexity as we're making that easier / less costly every year)