#indieweb 2019-05-08

2019-05-08 UTC
pd09041999, nitot, electronicmaji, todrobbins, [tantek], wolftune, [xavierroy], KartikPrabhu, jnoh, DenSchub, snarfed, [chrisaldrich], [pfefferle], [Rose], djmoch, [Serena], gxt, [frank] and AkyRhO joined the channel
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[Rose] Has anyone else seen this? https://brightpixels.blog/2019/05/bokeh-is-on-kickstarter
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[frank] Yeah I got some emails about Bokeh [Rose]. The weird thing is, from those emails, you have absolutely *no* idea what Bokeh is and for who it's for. And even if you read the blogpost above without checking the video, you would have no idea what the product is. I think that's a small oversight a lot of creators have over time. You need to tell over and over again what it is you do, even if it's just a 3-5 word pitch...
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[Rose] In the video he explicitly talks about indieweb compatible, I'm to ask him to expand on that.
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Zegnat I was just about to say, it is not 100% clear to me what this offers above other silos from just the blog post and scrolling through the Kickstarter
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[frank] I just heard him say that and I was like "waitwhat?"
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Zegnat Will have to check out the video when I can get away from work for a minute
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[Rose] I've asked for more information! https://micro.blog/rosemaryorchard/3478504
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Loqi [rosemaryorchard] @smith Could you expand some more on the IndieWeb compatibility? After watching the video I'm interested! (Side Note, until I'd watched the video I had no idea what Bokeh was, usually I wouldn't watch the video either - thankfully I did!)
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[Rose] Good not.
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[Rose] *bot
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[frank] But it's a sort of Pixelfed kinda network thing right?
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[Rose] Maybe? It seems less open than that.
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Zegnat Hard to say. Pixelfed is ActivityPub and therefor should have interoperability with other things build in. (Note the should.)
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Zegnat This, from not watching the video, seems very much like its own centralised service?
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Zegnat But maybe it will be a centralised service in the way that micro.blog is one: with full exportability and features to interoperate with others
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[Rose] Also, if he's using "IndieWeb compatible" to just mean "you can export your own data easily" we should perhaps explain to him what indieweb compatible really means.
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[frank] What _does_ it mean then?
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[frank] (See me poking around [Zegnat]?)
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Zegnat What is principles?
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Loqi The IndieWeb Community is largely based on principles (AKA tenets) such as own your data, scratch your own itches, build tools for yourself, selfdogfood, document your stuff, open source your stuff, UX design is more important than protocols, visible data for humans first and machines second, platform agnostic platforms, plurality over monoculture, longevity, and remember to have fun! https://indieweb.org/principles
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[frank] I really should learn the Loqi-language
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[Rose] I would think inter compatibility would be on that page somewhere.
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[frank] What is compatibility
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "compatibility" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "compatibility is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Rose] He does offer support for your own domain name and RSS feeds for public accounts though, which is good.
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Zegnat [frank]: I am not sure it is the Loqi language, or just that some of us know the way around the wiki by heart and use Loqi to quickly get links to it in chat ;)
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[frank] Is compatibility == principles then? I think not...
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Zegnat Probably not. We haven’t really used the word, I think
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Zegnat What is indieweb friendly?
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Loqi IndieWeb friendly refers to online services interoperating well with the indieweb by supporting open indieweb formats, protocols, as well as enabling users to transition to their own indieweb sites https://indieweb.org/indieweb_friendly
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[frank] There you go
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[Rose] What is compatible?
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Loqi IndieWeb friendly refers to online services interoperating well with the indieweb by supporting open indieweb formats, protocols, as well as enabling users to transition to their own indieweb sites https://indieweb.org/compatible
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Zegnat Because we are no strict set of rules, we have been using the word friendly :)
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Zegnat compatibility is compatible
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Loqi ok
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[Rose] thanks Zegnat.
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[frank] OK clear
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[frank] coffee now
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Zegnat goes to refill his tea
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[Rose] Coffee sounds good. I have a very exciting glass of Apple juice.
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[Rose] So, to be compatible/friendly he'd ideally need rel=me, microformats (h-entry and h-Card), and POSSE support.
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[Rose] He has support for syncing elsewhere.
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[Rose] Syndicating, urgh.
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[Rose] I have to say, I think this project is smart targeting photo sharing. That's what a lot of people want!
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Ruxton t's just another photo silo
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Ruxton *it's
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[Rose] Perhaps. We'll see what he replies with.
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Ruxton regardless of what he replies with, it's another photo silo
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Ruxton which I have to pay money to stre photos on ? :/
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Ruxton a moderated one at that
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[Rose] And micro.blog?
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[Rose] Is Pixelfed a silo?
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Ruxton yes and yes
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[frank] Pixelfed can be self-hosted though....
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Ruxton federating silos are still silos
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[frank] what is a silo?
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Loqi A silo, or web content hosting silo, in the context of the IndieWeb, is a centralized web site (like most social media) typically owned by a for-profit corporation that stakes some claim to content contributed to it and restricts access in some way (has walls) https://indieweb.org/silo
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[Rose] And micro.blog doesn't require you to host with them to use it as a service.
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas It isn't often I come here first thing and discover more than 50 messages.
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jeremycherfas And not now surprised. I've backed it, because I want to see him try.
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[Rose] Good morning!
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Loqi morning!
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[Rose] He definitely seems well intentioned.
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[frank] Sorry about that [jeremycherfas], I had the morning off so could hang out here....
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jeremycherfas No just you, [frank] And it is actually good to see.
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jeremycherfas Bokeh may be a silo, but I'm willing to support it if I can post to it from my own site, get interactions back from it, and POSSE to other places. I jump through the RSS hoops to see a chronological, ad-free timeline of my Instagram feed. Whether anyone there will consider it worthwhile, I doubt, because so many people only want as large an audience as possible, but we shall see.
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[frank] Totally agree on the last part Jeremy. It is the big discussion-killer every time I bring up stuff like Indieweb or the open web. Marketers and the likes (who might sympathize and want to bring this forward) counterstrike me with this argument every time. The big 5 provide a large audience for brands and others to show themselves. Why bother with stuff like "own your content" and "break free from the silo's" when those same silo's help me get a larg
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jeremycherfas And my answer is always the same. Use them, and try to minimise how much they can use you.
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[frank] That's a nice one. Might use that in my own talks and discussions
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jeremycherfas You're welcome. I remain pretty much convinced that at the moment there is no good argument to persuade someone to use IndieWeb principles. They have to come to it wanting to do that sort of thing, for reasons that may well be different for each person.
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[tantek] [frank] in short, Re: that why, because that assumption "help me get a larger audience" is flawed (often false), it's more like helps *them* (the silos) get a larger audience, based on your content
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[tantek] see the Criticism and See Also sections on /Medium for numerous disillusioned users running away from Medium, when the excuse used to be I publish on Medium "for distribution!" "for readership!"
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[tantek] these are commonly parroted assumptions that are often wrong
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[frank] [tantek] Medium, I can see that...but look at Instagram, Facebook, Twitter etc. Lots of brands still buy reach on those channels. It's the new TV advertising.
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[tantek] also known as, remember when it was most important for your band to be on Myspace?
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[frank] true that
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[tantek] so now that's becoming true for FB as well. they had a drop in quarterly earnings from ads. people are using it less. fewer people are using it. they've hit a peak and are now dropping
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[frank] And I know, most marketeers don't look past the hype. Just quarterly earnings
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[tantek] Twitter has been flat for a while
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[tantek] IG is an interesting possible exception (in terms of usage still rising)
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[frank] Well....Facebook is actually doing really well if you look at the grander scheme of things. Just read a (Dutch) post on that. Let me see if I can find a US counterpart
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jeremycherfas And after MySpace, there were other things. For marketing purposes, it may always be important to be somewhere. My view is that that should be in addition to somewhere you own and control.
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[tantek] point being, silos go up & down, so making any one of them your *primary* distribution is short-sighted and just plain dumb based on experience / evidence
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[tantek] only answer, make your site your *primary* distribution, and use silos as ephemeral *secondary* distribution
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[Rose] When Apple makes an announcement, they post it on their site, and then link to it elsewhere. If they can do that then surely that's a good example?
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jeremycherfas Absolutely agreed.
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[tantek] great, so let the marketers chase whatever is ephemeral today, but keep the primary copy on your own site
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[Rose] (Granted the argument might be "they've already made it")
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[tantek] BTW Interesting thread about thinking beyond FB/Twitter models/framing: https://twitter.com/jvelo/status/1126014435208957952
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@jvelo FOAF, WebSub, Webmention, Micropub etc. all of those are at best building blocks for products to be. Accessibility and social inclusion (and thus great network effects) can only be achieved through great products, not through standards. (twitter.com/_/status/1126014435208957952)
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[tantek] oops not that one
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[tantek] this one: https://twitter.com/jvelo/status/1126014424215621633
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@jvelo Diaspora and Mastodon problem is they accept the tech giant's forms of social media as the only playing field. They are attempts at rebuilding decentralized Facebook and Twitter, but this premise doesn't make sense in my opinion. A thread ↓ (twitter.com/_/status/1126014424215621633)
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[frank] tantek++ for examples and soundbites
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Loqi tantek has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (117 in all channels)
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[tantek] social media << Criticism of assuming existing silo social media framing: https://twitter.com/jvelo/status/1126014424215621633
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@jvelo Diaspora and Mastodon problem is they accept the tech giant's forms of social media as the only playing field. They are attempts at rebuilding decentralized Facebook and Twitter, but this premise doesn't make sense in my opinion. A thread ↓ (twitter.com/_/status/1126014424215621633)
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism of assuming existing silo social media framing: https://twitter.com/jvelo/status/1126014424215621633" to the "See Also" section of /social_media https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=60783&oldid=59702
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[frank] rose++ for apple example
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Loqi rose has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (32 in all channels)
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[frank] Oh whatever! indieweb++ just for being there
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[frank] Too bad that didn't work with Loqi 😉
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[frank] It's telling the thread from Jerome is on Twitter. I never understand why such great threads are not PESOS'd to their own site.
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[tantek] yes that thread should be a blog post
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[tantek] I wonder if one reason for such mini-thread is people don't want to have to come up with a clever / profound title / name for their blog post
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[tantek] and it's easier to just post a bunch of sentences / paragraphs
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[Rose] So don't give it a title?
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[tantek] I think people are stuck in the old RSS way of thinking which is post = title + content
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[frank] Yeah that's what I hear a lot. You just type in the Twitter-box and poof it's online. Much easier. Also, your network is already there. Instant feedback with likes, RT and replies. Third, blogging seems like too much hassle for this.
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[frank] But most of the time it's the immediate network effect that makes ppl write the threads
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[frank] It would be a great indie buildingblock if you could use a service like @threadreaderapp to PESOS your thread to your blog.
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[frank] And ofcourse have the network effect on your blog as well with webmentions and Bridgy
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[frank] Anyways, I was going to look for that Facebook piece on their growth...
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[tantek] I believe there has been some thinking on POSSE tweetstorm
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[tantek] [frank] here you go: https://indieweb.org/tweetstorm#How_do_you_POSSE_to_tweetstorm
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[eddie] tantek it’s an interesting thread. Do you (or anyone else reading this) have any ideas of what other “access patterns” there might be besides the feed, based on his thread there?
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[Rose] Now I have another project, adding a Wordpress syndication option to "syndicate to tweet storm"
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[tantek] feed is format. stream is an access pattern.
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[tantek] [eddie]
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[eddie] Fair enough (he used feed for stream, but that is better terminology)
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[tantek] he is mistakenly conflating the two and it's affecting the analysis presented
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[tantek] common social web problem
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[frank] [tantek] It's a Dutch post but the visualization should tell enough. Scroll down through the scandals and see how the stockprice fluctuates. At the end they zoom out for the bigger picture...
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[frank] https://decorrespondent.nl/9418/hoe-reageren-aandeelhouders-van-facebook-op-alle-schandalen/46466292950-6eeb79c9?utm_source=De+Correspondent&utm_campaign=537b55c1f2-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_10_03_09_35_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d5461ddbe9-537b55c1f2-87155417&mc_cid=537b55c1f2&mc_eid=1832772faf (Click on "Eerst verder lezen" to go beyond the paywall)
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[eddie] I didn’t feel that he referred to feed formats at all. To me it felt like every use of feed was simply referring to the stream view paradigm
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[eddie] Interestingly Access Pattern doesn’t seem to exist on Google in this form. It all seems to be about access data (like databases)
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[eddie] What would something like that properly be called? Design pattern?
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[tantek] I think it's a rough way of saying UX hence the redirects
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[tantek] sounds more like behavior than design
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[eddie] Yeah, that's true. It is about behavior. Because you can "design" a stream a bunch of ways, as seen in the IndieWeb, or even the difference between Twitter, Facebook and Google+
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[eddie] You can have lists, and cards and all sorts of different things. But they are all "stream patterns"
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[tantek] Rose I used to post "met rolls" after events, with rel=met links to everyone I met at the event
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[eddie] [Rose] I actually have an IndieWeb page on my site. It is essentially how I manually POSSE stuff to my Wiki profile page
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[eddie] It would be cool to add posts tagged IndieWeb or something similar
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[eddie] https://eddiehinkle.com/indieweb
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[Rose] Ok, how do you POSSE to your profile? (And should that conversation be in dev?)
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[eddie] Manual, copy and paste
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[Rose] Because I want everything on my profile to be on my website actually. I'm just debating the format.
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[Rose] Hmm, that would work aside from the fact my website is either in Markdown or HTML, not whichever markup the wiki is using
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[eddie] wiki allows html, hence my copy and paste
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[Rose] Ahhh
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[Rose] Now I need to decide how to format and manage the current areas of my profile on my site :P
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[eddie] heh 😉 have fun!
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[Rose] I can hear you cackling in a evil manner :P
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[eddie] I think I'm going to have to think through redesigning my IndieWeb page on my site now though, because if I link to my blog posts automatically, then when I copy and paste to update my wiki page it could include links to my blog posts, which I don't currently do
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[Rose] That's the thing, I think I need an indieweb page and a category for related posts
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[eddie] Yeah, that makes sense. Is there a way to merge those two?
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[eddie] Display content at the top of a category? or embed posts from a category on a page?
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[Rose] Well, I specifically moved my categories to the top level for my WP site, so I'm not sure about having a page with the exact same name, but I'll give it a try
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[eddie] ohhhh I see what you mean
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[eddie] [Rose] Interesting about this. (https://github.com/EdwardHinkle/indigenous-ios/issues/246#issuecomment-490460547) Apparently I might need some UI improvements 🙂 This does exist, in the search field there is a filter icon. Any suggestions on where you would have expected this to be?
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Loqi [RosemaryOrchard] I would like to be able to see everything, as well as filter for unread. Right now if I have no unread articles it seems that indigenous shows me nothing :)
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[Rose] The filter icon didn't seem to be working for me
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[Rose] So I can see the channels, but there's nothing in them
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[eddie] ohhh, how strange. I guess not a UI problem then but a bug. mmm strange.
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[Rose] Maybe my iPhone is just failing to sync?
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[eddie] We can move to dev to troubleshoot lol
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[Rose] It loads forever
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[Chris_Adams] hey folks. I’m assuming a lot of you speak at events. Would you put something like this on your site? There’s nothing particularly unreasonable in it, and if you’re not gonna stop flying, offsetting in a sensible fashion seems sensible: https://www.cennydd.com/air-travel-policy
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[Rose] I think that would be better served in chat 😉
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Finale Indigenous Log: The Future of the App" https://eddiehinkle.com/2019/05/08/5/article/
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[schmarty] oh no
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[eddie] haha it's not as bad as it sounds
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[eddie] unless that was said after reading the article as opposed to the headline, in which case, "uh oh" haha
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[schmarty] just the headline. reading deeper now. 😅
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[eddie] lol clickbait 🤷‍♂️
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[eddie] Darn. Missed opportunity. I should have started it "This has been an incredible journey"
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[schmarty] you can always edit it!
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[eddie] haha, true!
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[schmarty] lol i always initially misread "Abode" as "Adobe"
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[eddie] 😆
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[schmarty] (esp when written "Abode Suite"
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[eddie] that's true, I might have to change the name Suite
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[eddie] I didn't see that name collision
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[schmarty] i'm curious about the design of Chronicler in terms of wanting to have it post all the types.
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[schmarty] (e.g. compared w/ manton's approach of separate, focused apps)
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[eddie] Yeah Chronicler won't do photo/video/audio editing at all
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[eddie] Which I think is why manton uses seperate apps
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[eddie] Chronicler would be for say posting from Apple's clips app or a Clip from Overcast as a video on your website, or editing a podcast in Ferrite and then posting it to your website
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[schmarty] yeah. i am interested in more share-target-y things on my mobile. also the ability to edit (properties) of a given post.
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[eddie] Yeah, that would be the goal. Chronicler as a Share Target from all those apps
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[schmarty] eddie++ for future Micro(p|s)ub apps on iOS!
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Loqi eddie has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (96 in all channels)
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jackjamieson [eddie], I was just thinking this morning how much I'd like an offline mode for reading longer posts in Indigenous, so Anthologist sounds perfect
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[eddie] Thanks [schmarty] 🙂 I'm excited about it
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[schmarty] i need to start documenting and refactoring how i manage my website with Shortcuts.
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[eddie] jackjamieson Awesome! That's great to hear there is a desire for that sort of thing. All of these apps are designed to scratch my itch but I've been hoping they are needed by others as well
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[eddie] [schmarty] Definitely! I'd love to see more about what you've been doing there
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[schmarty] my Shortcuts-fu is middling. i think there is a path to a really great suite of shortcuts-for-micropub that replaces a lot of the web-based micropub clients i have used in the past.
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snarfed well, for ios at least
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[schmarty] yeah, sadly not portable outside of iOS
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Zegnat [schmarty]: I agree, I would also like "more share-target-y things"! Especially after Charlie showed how her website is a share target for links for immediate bookmark creation.
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jackjamieson [eddie], I think splitting into three apps makes sense. And I'm definitely in favour of a good offline mode, since I do a lot of reading on the subway where I have a limited connection
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[schmarty] zegnat: with the right "building-block" shortcuts, it becomes easy to make some really fun stuff. bookmarks is a good idea. i really love my live-photo-to-video shortcut for posts like https://martymcgui.re/2019/05/04/211631/
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] Cheers! 🍻 [video]
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[schmarty] i also have a teacup-style shortcut for posting ate/drank to my private site via micropub. it's a share target for a photo and pulls location and date/time from that photo, so it only prompts for ate vs drank and a name for the thing.
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[schmarty] and a "Micropub edit" that pulls content into Drafts for editing markdown posts after-the-fact.
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[schmarty] i also love my micropub media upload shortcut. it's based on Rose's and can copy URLs or markdown to the clipboard. makes my website the fastest way to share photos a lot of the time.
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[eddie] Yeah I have a media upload shortcut as well.
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[eddie] Does something very similar
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[kim_landwehr] Is anyone else having the problem where sources are added to a new channel in Aperature but nothing is showing up in a reader, unless you click in the channel. I don't think it is a reader issue because I have tried both Monocle and Indigenous
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aaronpk [kim_landwehr]: sometimes a new feed will take a couple seconds to show up, so there's definitely a noticeable delay
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[Rose] RE Bokeh on Kickstarter, the developer seems responsive with regards to explaining what about it is IndieWeb (as he said in his video it was). https://brightpixels.blog/2019/05/bokeh-is-on-kickstarter
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aaronpk He mentioned indieweb in the video?
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[Rose] Yes. He said "it's Indieweb compatible"
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aaronpk Interesting, I wonder what that means
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[Rose] We had a discussion here this morning about what that means, Zegnat directed a few of us to /friendly
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[Rose] For him it means export options, RSS feeds for public accounts, and the ability to syndicate to other networks.
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aaronpk That's certainly an excellent start
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[Rose] I requested the ability to syndicate to the service from our own sites.
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aaronpk Is he making it open source? (Not that that's a requirement for being indieweb friendly by any means)
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[Rose] I agree that it is! I suggested he add an FAQ on what the IndieWeb is and how the service is compatible.
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aaronpk good idea!
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[Rose] Not sure of that, but he does seem to be planning on adding a self hosted option.
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aaronpk Neat
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[Rose] https://micro.blog/smith/3480759
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Loqi [smith] @rosemaryorchard first off, huge fan! Love your podcast Automators. Darn, maybe I need to do better explaining what it is without the video? So in terms of IndieWeb compatibility, all public profiles will have an RSS feed, the option to cross-post to...
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[Rose] https://micro.blog/smith/3481592
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Loqi [smith] @rosemaryorchard ahh! Yes, POSSE is what I mean when I talk about self-hosting.
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[Rose] Uhh, could someone help me formulate a response (or tell him) to explain the difference between self hosting and POSSE?
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aaronpk Oh boy
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[Rose] I think as he's not developing this himself he's missing a lot of the technical knowledge that we have.
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aaronpk well Wordpress is an easy example of self hosting
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[schmarty] (wordpress.org vs wordpress.com! )
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[tantek] I think examples help in situations like this
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[tantek] Point to how micro.blog does it
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[tantek] and the IndieWeb building blocks they support
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[Rose] I suspect he has the micro.blog model in mind.
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[kim_landwehr] thanks [aaronpk] I figured out the problem was with the feed itself and not aperature, was able to fix problem using a different source
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[chrisaldrich] Looking back at [Rose] and [frank]'s dicsussion this morning on businesses and marketing.
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[chrisaldrich] One of the other problems with social media and their ability to "capture" eyeballs is that a business may join and put their content in,
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[chrisaldrich] but as the platform is reaching scale, then their algorithms take over to de-prioritize your well-crafted marketing content. Then they simply charge you money to be seen. Facebook has arguably been the most successful at this bait-and-switch to make businesses think they need to be there (acting as if they were "people").
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[chrisaldrich] I'm following "Coca-cola" on Facebook, but I *never* see any of their content unless they're actively paying money to Facebook for me to see it. From that perspective, it's just a pure ad play and not about traditional "engagement".
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[Rose] I'm still astounded that Facebook lets pages join groups.
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jacky that's so weird
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[chrisaldrich] Goodreads does much the same thing with their "author" accounts, though they warn authors against trolling other users/groups for "advertising" purposes to sell their books/products.
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jacky author accounts aren't just regular profiles with extra privs?
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[chrisaldrich] [Rose] have you seen pages misusing groups?
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[Rose] https://micro.blog/smith/3481749
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Loqi [smith] @rosemaryorchard You're right, and I apologize. I'm still learning how to best communicate this. What I mean by self-hosting is that you'll be able to post pictures to your blog using WordPress, Jekyll, Micro.blog, etc., and those pictures will show ...
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[Rose] [chrisaldrich] I see it happen once, and then the page gets banned from the group usually.
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[chrisaldrich] jacky, yes the're essentially that. I'd guess that about half of the follows I get on Goodreads are authors who think that I might like their work.
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[chrisaldrich] Fortunately the "follow" is the only notification I'm getting from them and they're not being more explicit about their reasons for following me.
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jacky hmm
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[chrisaldrich] I also suppose in those cases, authors are also hoping for reciprocal follows to make it look to other potential people that they're bigger/more famous because they have so many followers/friends on the platform.
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[Rose] So many people do that on IG too, just following people and hoping they'll get followed back.
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[Rose] I do want more Instagram followers, but not enough to start spamming people like that.
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[chrisaldrich] Gets into the "influencer" space that Wei talks about in Status as a Service: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2019/2/19/status-as-a-service
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[chrisaldrich] For a while, many influencers on Instagram discovered that if they made their accounts private, they'd get even more followers because there was a fear of missing out on their content.
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[chrisaldrich] fair warning: that Status as a Service post is a loooongread, but is quite interesting.
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[Rose] I see his notes at the top apologising for that!
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[frank] [chrisaldrich] It all depends on the knowledge of the marketer. I've done my fair share of social media outreach and worked with various marketers. Some are still under the belief that the organic posts will be seen by all (no idea about analytics, algo's etc) some are quite clever and for instance use Facebook follower data for dark posts to specific demo/sociographics, connect with platforms like Hubspot and follow customers all through the journe
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[frank] smart targeting, phone fingerprinting etc. It's quite a jungle out there.
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[frank] And let's not start about the whole voice/AI bazooka that's pointing at them from Silicon Valley right now
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[frank] [Rose] It's all in the IG playbook. And sad thing is, it works. Even my little daughter (12 years) has a few legitimate fan-accounts and she follows all sorts of people. Most of them follow her back. She also works hard on her IG page, has a grid and a format, uses paid videoapps to make specific edits. It's amazing what she does with her accounts
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[chrisaldrich] [frank] Indeed!
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[Rose] So, is she going to lead a session on manipulating silos at IWC? I'd love to meet her, she sounds smart!
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[frank] Hahaha... Not sure...you never know...
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Loqi ahahahaha
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[frank] But yeah she does some pretty clever stuff. She also has a fanfiction account on Wattpad (?) with quite a few followers and some small internetfame. That's my girl... 🙂
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[Rose] I don't know if we have a specific age limit actually for attending IWCs, though that's a thought for meta really.
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[chrisaldrich] I've had a 5 or 6 year old attend a Homebrew Website Club and hopefully the CoC should ensure that people of all ages should be safe to attend.
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[chrisaldrich] [frank] Does she have her own site? Is she using POSSE?
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[chrisaldrich] I've seen talks by 11 and 13 year olds at WordCamps in the past year and they're either on par or even better than some of the talks by adults.
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[frank] [chrisaldrich] No she doesn't. I don't press her into the whole indieweb stuff and all that. I just let her do her own thing. She'll come to me when necessary. I did get domainnames for both my son and daughter when they were born. So one day they can use them when they want to
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[chrisaldrich] Turns out it was a 5 year old, but I also have photo evidence of a 4 month old who was in attendance as well, though they didn't have their own site yet: https://boffosocko.com/2016/07/27/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadena-los-angeles/
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[chrisaldrich] [frank]++
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Loqi [frank] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (20 in all channels)
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[chrisaldrich] oops, make that 6 month old... I was guessing at the age from the photo....
[jgmac1106], kraftbj_, wagle, [kimberlyhirsh], leg, botka, michel_v, aramiscd, j605, ben_thatmustbeme, mauz555, KartikPrabhu, yar, eli_oat, cleanshirt, gRegorLove, wolftune, [eddie], jnoh, [Rose], [tantek], [anomalily] and [calumryan] joined the channel; leg left the channel
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gRegorLove There was a kid with a pretty rad demo at IWC 2014. https://indieweb.org/2014/Demos#Faire
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[jgmac1106] IWC all ages IMO. Not just about kids but parent inclusivity