#indieweb 2020-07-01

2020-07-01 UTC
wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk i don't know if i'd say that, it's a lot easier to add an h-card than it is to set up a workflow for receiving and viewing webmentions
#
[chrisaldrich] Even some of those who are coding adjacent might have problems getting webmention.io working... it is a niche area of users (gen2-3) perhaps, but I could see a potentially bigger group of people using it if it were supported by more senders.
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] only uses /generations terminology for lack of a better shorthand....
hs0ucy_, gRegorLove, KempfCreative, nickodd, gRegorLove_, __number5__, [gRegorLove], wolftune, kensp, [schmarty], opal, joseph_dickson and rEnr3n joined the channel; Adie left the channel
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: "Syndicating my IndieWeb Wiki edits to my personal website" https://boffosocko.com/2020/06/30/syndicating-my-indieweb-wiki-edits-to-my-personal-website/
[KevinMarks] joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
#
[KevinMarks] Interesting how many are asking for indieweb protocols and principles here https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1278116194621419520?s=20
#
@cwarzel odd question but: what are your most far fetched utopian ideas for fixing social media platforms? the stuff that’s likely never ever gonna happen (twitter.com/_/status/1278116194621419520)
[tantek], markopasha, KartikPrabhu, kensp, swentel, Boobuigi, dckc, opal and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
jacky https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VpXKmxl04cS47fjQQbWvRo2CqvYmmQJHT2pTNvzk6To/edit on the optimism of decentralization networks
#
jacky wow this is a really good read
#
jacky like better than I thought
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
petermolnar !tell [chrisaldrich] re webmention email: good idea. I am getting email notifications from webmention.io for incoming webmentions (via zapier), so doable.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] morning all
[itsjustk] joined the channel
#
[itsjustk] ello 🙂
KartikPrabhu and [Ana_Rodrigues] joined the channel
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] morning!
#
Loqi *yawn* ... /stretch/
KartikPrabhu and bltavares joined the channel
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] Hello, I hope this is the right channel to ask this. I’ve been wanting to start a “quotes” section on my blog to save quotes of various mediums (podcasts, instagrams and books). While I can find how to properly cite books, has anyone found a good explanation of how to cite podcasts and instagram posts without messing up any copyright? Thank you
[fluffy] joined the channel
#
[fluffy] Hmm, I think those are both specific instances of citing URLs, which the various style guides have had things for some time now.
#
petermolnar [Ana_Rodrigues]: the "safest" way would be using oembed as per https://developers.facebook.com/docs/instagram/embedding/, but that will probably result in an iframe, which I guess is not what you want.
#
[fluffy] https://www.citationmachine.net/resources/how-to-cite-a-podcast/ might be helpful as far as how to format the text anyway
#
[fluffy] For the indieweb markup to use #microformats might be a better place to ask.
kiryin joined the channel
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] [petermolnar_] Yeah, I don’t want to do that because they are going to disable that feature I think (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/instagram-just-threw-users-of-its-embedding-api-under-the-bus/).
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] Thanks [fluffy]! Yeah I thought it would be something around that. Thank you.
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] I suppose my concern is as well… if that content is deleted in the original sources… where do I stand..
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] Sorry, not disable, make it more complicated to use.
#
petermolnar [Ana_Rodrigues]: with whatever you show on your site, play it according to their rules; I'd use the oembed, but kill the <script> from the end of it. Personal archival purposes is another story.
#
petermolnar you can always "cache" the oembed result itself though
#
[fluffy] Yeah check out the notes from “here today, gone tomorrow” this past weekend
#
petermolnar ("" for cache is because it could be a veeeeery long term cache)
#
petermolnar re that article: "People may need to get permission before embedding someone else's Instagram photo." LOL?
#
petermolnar I mean I'd really welcome a change like that to the internet, but that's xanadu, not http
#
petermolnar as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Xanadu
#
[fluffy] https://indieweb.org/2020/West/here-today
#
[fluffy] But yeah I’d basically try to okay by the rules of the platform but also keep a personal archive of things and also lean on archive.org where possible. Unfortunately a lot of modern sites aren’t very archive.org-friendly
#
petermolnar I fixed it for you > lot of modern sites aren’t very friendly
#
petermolnar sometimes I feel like we (html first) people are already the gopher2 people
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] You can use a media fragment url to cite a snippet of an audio file within an <audio > tag
#
petermolnar tossed into oblivion
#
[KevinMarks] There is also the npr tool for making snippets
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] I will have a read! Thanks all!
KartikPrabhu and Zegnat joined the channel
#
[Ana_Rodrigues] Ideally, I wanted just text.. similar to me writing down on in a personal journal some quotes that mean something to me. So i am wondering if citing is okay giving that the medium changes: from podcast (audio) and instagram (image) to just plain text.
alxd, KartikPrabhu, Kaja_, danbee718, corenomi1al and KempfCreative joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] That's fine under most copyright regimes yes. Fair use in US, fair dealing in UK/EU
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] I use blockquote and a time stamp for that anna, or APA 6.0 if publishing for work
#
[jgmac1106] but I really do want a micropub enabled podcast catcher, where I can say a word clip a snippet and have it publish to my website....that is dreamy
#
[jgmac1106] but never link it to the way Kevin suggests, that might be neat
kart joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] here's an example http://www.kevinmarks.com/adapalmercite.html
[itsjustk] joined the channel
#
[itsjustk] [jgmac1106] I've wanted something kinda similar for a while, whenever i listen to podcasts, its almost always been when ive been doing soemthing else, so ive always wanted to be able to utter a command, and have the timestamp saved somewhere. I've lost count of the amount of times someone has said something/mentioned a product and forgot when they say it, and i can never be bothered to skip back through an entire episode to find it!!
#
jgmac1106 I can almost do it with Google Notes. Firefox voice is coming along mabe we can /Sawyer folks to supporting it in micropub extensions like omnibear
#
jgmac1106 you don’t get the time stamp and linked snippet to podcast…thats the real lift
#
jgmac1106 itsjustk why I don’t do much informational texts on podcasts or audiobooks…no purpose in studying without notes can’t take notes and drive
#
[itsjustk] i thought i'd tagged the wrong person for a moment, avatar changed 😄
#
[KevinMarks] I want to extend podcasts so they can have linked y urls at different points (we have had this in the past with m4a)
#
[jgmac1106] the ant video annotating tool works that way
#
jgmac1106 https://ant.umn.edu/
#
jgmac1106 KevinMarks++ for demoing the Indieweb podcatcher app sometime in near future
#
Loqi KevinMarks has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (74 in all channels)
#
[KevinMarks] It can be hard to know what's playing when. Maybe you can use scrobbling?
#
jgmac1106 Google just does+?t=104 for start on YouTube…is any of that standardized putting start and stop times in urls?
#
jgmac1106 thi is what I envision me driving…hear cool quote..say “take note from 2:46-3:04” and then I leave my reaction via voice which gets published with a link to the snippet
#
jgmac1106 or just take note start, take note stop….saying the time should not be on user….lose some accuracy prolly not much
kart joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] wow ANT annotations export as rss, json, xml. or tex
#
[jgmac1106] text*
#
jgmac1106 doesn’t work in Firefox though
#
jgmac1106 here is how they link to an annotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttk6ehcS3Z0 but then the json and rss feed have the length of the annotation clip…no way to stop…but this sounds to devy now
sknebel, Zegnat and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] http://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/
#
[KevinMarks] It works at browser level if you have direct audio/video links
#
sknebel Next Events: Homebrew Website Club Meetups https://events.indieweb.org/tag/hwc, Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log https://chat.indieweb.org/today
[snarfed], dckc, rmdes1, twomanytacos, KempfCreative, kensp1, wombelix, kiryin, [chrisaldrich], [tantek], [KevinMarks], gRegorLove, a_chou, [fluffy], aaronpk, mlncn, jacky, wolftune, petermolnar, Zegnat, tinfoil-hat, segnior, corenomi1al, dopplergange, alxd, ned0, IWSlackGateway, XgF, marcusr, distopico, Simounet, IWSlackGateway1, [itsjustk], [schmarty] and [Ana_Rodrigues] joined the channel
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: https://www.taniarascia.com/another-website-redesign/ (from https://boffosocko.com/2020/06/27/another-website-redesign-and-making-the-internet-better-tania-rascia-2/)
#
KartikPrabhu jgmac1106: here is my example of a webmention with timestamp https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/gurdy-lights-sky
#
Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] at this point I could totally picture the aurora in the back of my mind. Very nice!
#
KartikPrabhu note the reply-to has a #t=42
[JuJu] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] silo quits << Kara Swisher quits publicly in a NYT editorial https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/opinion/facebook-zuckerberg-labeling.html
#
Loqi ok, I added "Kara Swisher quits publicly in a NYT editorial https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/opinion/facebook-zuckerberg-labeling.html" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=71019&oldid=70252
swentel and gbmor joined the channel
#
[tantek] yo jacky, I'm going to trash that optimism of decentralization networks because it's posted in Google Docs FFS
#
[tantek] how's this for an expression/phrase? "armchair decentralization"
KartikPrabhu, opal, kikurage, hs0ucy_ and KempfCreative joined the channel
#
jacky so I just found out it's a leaked document - it wasn't supposed to be on GDocs
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] 😳
#
jacky they don't seem to be frustrated with it tho
#
jacky and tbqf, all of the points they made there are very true
#
jacky like what's the point of building something else and saying it's a haven from silos if it falls prey to the same effects that made them privy to things like XKEYSCORE et al?
#
[chrisaldrich] That looks like an editor's draft for eventual publication somewhere. Any idea what the target publication should be?
#
[chrisaldrich] Some interest thoughts on writing and UI with a ring of truth: https://twitter.com/SerenaSonoma/status/1277718113635704832 and https://twitter.com/mrejfox/status/1277804318326915074
#
@SerenaSonoma Writers will have writers block for an article but tweet a whole 800 word twitter thread. (twitter.com/_/status/1277718113635704832)
#
[chrisaldrich] Perhaps this is the sort of thing that makes UI like micro.blog which doesn't add a title on a post until later so intriguing.
#
jacky [chrisaldrich]: not yet
#
[tantek] can someone translate "800 word" into number of tweets for me?
#
[tantek] !calc 5km as miles
#
Loqi 3.107 miles
#
[tantek] !calc 800 words as tweets
#
Loqi words and tweets are not compatible.
#
[tantek] loqi++ lolololol
#
Loqi loqi has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
#
aaronpk haha
#
[KevinMarks] !calc mean English word length
#
Loqi 5.1 characters
#
[KevinMarks] !calc 800*6/280
#
Loqi 17.14285714285714285714285714285714285714285714285714285714...
#
[KevinMarks] So 18 tweets
#
[KevinMarks] !calc 18*280/800
#
Loqi 6.3
#
jacky [chrisaldrich]: I can say, it'll be out in a week!
#
jacky w.r.t that article
#
jacky it's by https://shiba.computer/
KartikPrabhu, airDale and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] math++
#
Loqi math has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
jjuran joined the channel
#
[tantek] jacky, that's quite the homepage
#
[tantek] In terms of content, I did notice the oddly narrow framing of "decentralized" in that article, as well as IMO mistaken inclusion of anything blockchain (single codebase == not decentralized in practice, power is still centralized in the one codebase)
#
[tantek] no mention of indieweb etc.
#
[tantek] there's this odd developer-centric thing that happens with "decentralization" wherein there's a dominant (false) assumption that decentralization must require new protocols
#
[tantek] like new network transport protocols
#
[tantek] there's a second oddly developer-centric thing that happens with "decentralization" wherein there's a second (also false) assumption that one you've made this new protocol, you've achieved decentralization! (nearly complete neglect of usability, use-cases, user-flows, new user-level challenges in non-centralized systems etc.)
#
[tantek] once* you've made
#
[tantek] maybe this is more meta or dev, yet I'd like to keep the discussion user-level if possible
#
jacky this straddles all three spaces (because depending on how the plumbing works, it can influence the UX)
#
jacky like in the case of SSB, you don't use URLs, you use SHAs to ID people and content
#
jacky not necessarily human-readable out of the box
#
jacky as opposed to user-driven UR{N,I,L}s
#
jacky uses that to include things like e-mail and SMS
seekr, Hi, [chrisaldrich] and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
krjst what software/service is everyone using for creating a local archive of an entire website?
#
krjst I am currently using `wget -m`, but it does a poor job handling client-side rendered websites such as https://elm-lang.org/
#
krjst I was looking at some of the options in https://indieweb.org/archival_copy
#
krjst but it seems that most solutions use a web interface and can be much more complicated and less flexible than what wget offers.
#
krjst I don't really like the idea of running a service when what I really need is a local browsable and grepable copy of the website.
#
krjst ArchiveBox is closest to what I needed, but it only supports backing up a single page, but in that case `wget -p` should be enough for me.
#
jacky I personally don't run any of whole sites
#
aaronpk what is spiderpig?
#
Loqi Spiderpig is a web crawler for archiving a website as static HTML files https://indieweb.org/Spiderpig
#
aaronpk krjst: ^
xsteadfastx joined the channel
#
krjst aaronpk: thanks, let me take a look at it
#
[snarfed] except not client side rendering afaik
#
aaronpk correct
#
aaronpk but client-side rendered sites don't deserve to be archived :P
#
[snarfed] 💥
#
KartikPrabhu ducks, ducks, and goes
#
jacky HA
[KevinMarks] joined the channel