#indieweb 2020-11-14
2020-11-14 UTC
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# 
[chrisaldrich] what is bingo?
# 
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bingo" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "bingo is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# [chrisaldrich] bingo is IndieWeb Bingo
# [chrisaldrich] what is bingo
# Loqi bingo is IndieWeb Bingo https://indieweb.org/bingo
# [chrisaldrich] What is bingo?
# Loqi IndieWeb Bingo is a game played by IndieWebCamp attendees to see how many community members they can meet https://indieweb.org/bingo
# [chrisaldrich] ManualUntilItHurts++
# [chrisaldrich] Mentioned in the Eat Your Own Cooking event on Zoom right now: there are lots of videos up from the recent https://conf.activitypub.rocks/#home conference
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sl007 mentioned forum category https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/c/software/
# [chrisaldrich] Eat posts for cooking events: https://boffosocko.com/2020/11/13/55780972/
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# sl007 Trailer climate refugees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Yw1Cbr4xo&t=1s
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[KevinMarks] pronoun << Sarah Dopp collecting examples https://www.facebook.com/sarahdopp/posts/10104085788079848
# Loqi ok, I added "Sarah Dopp collecting examples https://www.facebook.com/sarahdopp/posts/10104085788079848" to the "See Also" section of /pronoun https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73283&oldid=73051
# 
alex11 you're using zoom and not jitsi?
# [chrisaldrich] What is Jitsi?
# Loqi Jitsi Meet is a free open-source self-hostable video conferencing solution that was occasionally used for virtual HWCs and IWCs https://indieweb.org/Jitsi
# [chrisaldrich] ^^ we have in the past, but there were some issues on reliability... for scale and ease-of-use we're going with Zoom on this camp.
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# sl007 does not like zoom – btw we did the https://conf.activitypub.rocks with Big Blue Button (Open Source, just like jitsi)
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# [chrisaldrich] GWG, don't forget to do a picture...
# [chrisaldrich] (I totally forgot)
toupain, rawtext, j12t, nickodd, reed, [Raphael_Luckom], gxt, a_chou, rEnr3n, dhanesh, [KevinMarks], [jgmac1106], harmetic and KempfCreative joined the channel
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[jgmac1106] morning Zegnat
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petermolnar Zegnat your question reminded me of https://twitter.com/JillKrajewski/status/1307721097429897217
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@JillKrajewski unfortunately the dune movie fired me as music supervisor. villeneuve rejected my vision of gradually making “sandstorm” by darude louder and louder (twitter.com/_/status/1307721097429897217)
# [jgmac1106] Yeah maybe it jump start work on my website or make choose a solution...then again I can settle on something as soon as you do Zegnat
# [jgmac1106] Do I go back to WordPress bc stuff almost works 90% of the time, learn enough PHP to make my website work since I have it they I want, try Kirby, Prech or some other CMS....go all in on micro.blog....been stuck here since last June
# [jgmac1106] Probably just demo tech4teens we just got another 140k in grants for the program. get to hire full time staff...then I will have time to cook for myself...too much cooking for others lately
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tech4teens" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "tech4teens is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [jgmac1106] being full online teaching takes too much of drain...put my creative juice into offline endeavors. Trying to learn ukulele and carve a chess set by hand
# [jgmac1106] Not sure it needs its own page. I should add a description on the Education page
# dkozel Has anyone gotten webmentions or micropub to work with Hugo and Netlify?
# [KevinMarks] that dune reference reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxdw-BbfBFI&ab_channel=BBCRadiophonicWorkshop-Topic
# Loqi Hugo is a static site generator written in Go https://indieweb.org/Hugo
# dkozel I use Hugo for https://www.derekkozel.com and it works /fine/, but being static it seems difficult to integrate with active IndieWeb components
# dkozel But I really don't want to have to maintain a server (and thus OS) to have a website. Hoping there's a hosted service I can move to that manages the server side so I can focus on content
# [KevinMarks] I have used webmention.herokuapp.com with Hugo eg http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2016/04/the-path-to-self-soverereign-identity.html
# dkozel I went for a static site because there were available services for just hosting a pile of files, but I'm not fixated on a static site.
# dkozel Ok, pulling in web-mentions with Javascript does seem pretty simple to add (though I'm seeing lots of broken profile images)
# dkozel sknebel: Do you know of one for supporting micropub with a git repo?
# [KevinMarks] the broken profile images are because twitter deletes the old ones
# [KevinMarks] this site uses mention.tech and js to do a similar webmention receiving thing http://tumblelog.xyz/ - the herokuapp one is more mature, and has live updates
# 
Zegnat There is voxpelli's Micropub to GitHub (https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github) but I do not think it is hosted as a service somewhere
# [jgmac1106] isn't micro.blog just a large network of hugo sites? you could check that out dkozel
# [jgmac1106] waiting for micropub github actions
# dkozel I love the IndieWeb, but I'm neither an IT person or web designer so I definitely end up spending far longer making the website work then writing stuff for it :D
# [jgmac1106] that is how I am publishing my main site using sftp action and a tiny bit of php....zegnat and that is why I don't want to WP I want a blank page to design the way my site looks
# [jgmac1106] dkozel this took me seconsds to set up: https://www.drmacscybersecuritybrief.com/
# dkozel I should probably have gone for a hosted Known site, but I don't think that was around 5+ years ago and the thought of trying to retheme something makes me shiver
# [jgmac1106] $5.00 a month and you are off. micro.blog is the easiest
# [jgmac1106] yeah I really like Known....but maintaining is tough
# [jgmac1106] pine.blog is also easy and mblaney ihazawebsite has a built in reader and all the whistles
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# carolline Hello, I signed in to participate in the conference today and tomorrow, but I am not sure where to join. I am in the UK so I am aware of timezones but even so there should be something on now but I am not sure where is the place/link to join. Thank you!!
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# [KevinMarks] this is the place to chat, so welcome
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# Zegnat Hi carolline! I think the information will show up on https://events.indieweb.org/2020/11/indiewebcamp-east-2020-ShBaD3gD6Df0 ... I would expect for Zoom links to popup both there and be announced here in the chats :)
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# [KevinMarks] kickoff is at 9:00 EST which is 2pm UK time
# [KevinMarks] so you're a little early
# carolline Great!! That is very kind of you!!!
# [jgmac1106] welcome carolline
# carolline There was a zoom link in the wiki but it said the event would start the 14th at 1 am, so I was a bit puzzled and confused
# carolline I am new to the community, so I am grateful for your kind support with this
# carolline I am quite excited :-) and curious!!
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# [jgmac1106] can you point me to the page in question will make sure the info is correct.
# carolline https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule
# carolline day one, the first link to zoom
# dkozel Same, seeing 1 AM if you actually join the Zoom link
# [jgmac1106] carolline++
# [jgmac1106] I have pinged the people with the zoom keys probably just a typo or something
# carolline That will help for the newbies :-)
# carolline Will the zoom link for the starting session be in that schedule page?
# [jgmac1106] yeah and here as well, we don't release early bc of zoombombing
# carolline Great! Thank you!
# carolline I am in Zoom now, it seems it will start soon! THank you all for your support :-) I imagine I will "see" you around
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# [chrisaldrich] Here's the link for this morning's IWC East sessions: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/89519992508?pwd=SzZUVFZFOFc4dmFEdmNDanlFeTJFZz09
SergeT[m], Salt[m], jfkimmes[m], reed[m], perflyst[m], Matthew[m], benpa[m], crowdhailer, rick[m], aviraldg, jamietanna[m], Ryuno-Ki, CarlosSols[m], samwilson, glenn[m], jalcine[m], plindner[m] and fwe joined the channel
# Ryuno-Ki Hey there,
# Ryuno-Ki the link on https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule#Saturday seems to be invalid / expired. Is there another one for Zoom?
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# [chrisaldrich] Let me double check
mayakate[m], ryanryankeseu[m], nekr0z, smacko[m], Jeena1, fredcy_, [Ian_Forrester], freekurt and Gyuri joined the channel
# Gyuri hello
# Ryuno-Ki > Name of personal link is invalid. Please check and try again.
# Ryuno-Ki Wait, after opening in the browser, I get a session!
# Ryuno-Ki (or rather: a prompt to update my Zoom client ...)
# petermolnar !meme timezones
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# [Simon_Willison] Hi everyone! How do “Intros and Quick Website Demos” work today?
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# Ryuno-Ki The chat web UI did not work for me. But IRC is fine :-)
# 
shoesNsocks my first zoom! (lucky me?)
# DavidDylanThomas Hello!
# schmudde Interesting. Both are working for me. But I prefer staying in IRC.
# shoesNsocks GWG: thanks
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# schmudde Pretty nice to keep the chat in one place. Smart.
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[kimberlyhirsh] Hi IWC East! I'm momming and planning to do so outdoors in gorgeous weather today but will have an eye here on chat as I'm able.
# Loqi IndieWeb code of conduct tl;dr: Be respectful of other people, respectfully ask people to stop if you are bothered, and if you can't resolve an issue, contact staff. If you are being a problem, it will be apparent and you'll be asked to leave https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct
# Zegnat The etherpad for session proposals: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2020-East-Sessions
# [kimberlyhirsh] @GWG I shall do my best to oblige.
# Ryuno-Ki You can read the CoC at https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct
# [jgmac1106] Morning manton I think I am going to demo my Teams version of microblog today, haven't done much on other websites
# Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot/digital therapist present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
# petermolnar gives Loqi a question
# Loqi POSSE is an abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, the practice of posting content on your own site first, then publishing copies or sharing links to third parties (like social media silos) with original post links to provide viewers a path to directly interacting with your content https://indieweb.org/POSSE
# [jgmac1106] Who is gwg?
# carolline what is possi
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "possi" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "possi is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# carolline what is posse
# Loqi POSSE is an abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, the practice of posting content on your own site first, then publishing copies or sharing links to third parties (like social media silos) with original post links to provide viewers a path to directly interacting with your content https://indieweb.org/POSSE
# petermolnar what is PESOS
# Loqi PESOS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate (to your) Own Site https://indieweb.org/pesos
# carolline thank GWG
# [Simon_Willison] what is Dogsheep
# Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather regularly in person to share ideas and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indieweb.org/indiewebcamp
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Dogsheep" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Dogsheep is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [Simon_Willison] Dogsheep is a project to build tools for pulling personal data from different sources into SQLite databases - https://dogsheep.github.io/
# Ryuno-Ki Oh, interesting. Looks like Dogsheep shares some ideas with Nostalgia:
# Loqi Micro.blog is a website and social service started by Manton Reece, which natively supports IndieWeb building-blocks like microformats2, Webmention, and Micropub https://indieweb.org/Micro.blog
# maxwelljoslyn Yo, h0p3!! Glad to see you here!
# [jgmac1106] Caroline I run pa ton on everything on Reclaim Hosting. This camp for teens https://tech-4-teens.club is all WordPress on name.com
# [Simon_Willison] Oh interesting - I hadn’t seen Nostalgia! What’s the underlying data source, I see it uses Pandas but is it SQLite or JSON or similar on disk?
# carolline Thank you Greg!!
# [jgmac1106] can we move away from "mom" (even if your mom is a literal example) as a low tech user story
# [jgmac1106] What is education?
# Loqi IndieWeb for Education is the application of indieweb principles to one's personal site with a particular emphasis on use cases for education, pedagogy, research, academic samizdat, and collaboration https://indieweb.org/education
# Ryuno-Ki @Simon_Willison It writes to JSON, then imports that to Panda. But you can define other formats (e.g. the Web Extension gets written to .tar.gz files)
# [jgmac1106] check that out carolline ^^ lot of examples there
# [jgmac1106] cogntivie bias...you mean I am actually gonna get some use out of an educational psychology degree?
# Ryuno-Ki @Simon_Willison I wrote some importers for Twitter and IMAP there.
# [Simon_Willison] Ryuno-Ki want to team up on a personal data warehousing session? I proposed one for Dogsheep but it would be a great opportunity to discuss different approaches to the problem
# Ryuno-Ki @Simon_Willison Hm, I can't find it in the Etherpad :-(
# [Simon_Willison] it’s right at the bottom
# Ryuno-Ki Spotted it
# Ryuno-Ki Um ... last two numbers of my phone number? Let me look it up ^^"
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# Ryuno-Ki Who's Rosa Park?
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# [tipoqueno] Hey, can you recommend some Github-like indie service?
# maxwelljoslyn Ryuno-Ki: A well known figure in the American civil rights movement during the 60s
# Ryuno-Ki Okay, I'm European.
# [jgmac1106] poultry and chicken
# [jgmac1106] English words written in French voice more "upper class" registet
# [jgmac1106] register*
# [jgmac1106] you find more dipthongs in words of the "rich" usually with French etymology
# petermolnar [tipoqueno]: which part of github? If you want a git web interface, there's plenty. If you want one with wiki, issue tracker, etc, there's still plenty. If you're after collaboration though...
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# Ryuno-Ki For better or worse
# [jgmac1106] please remember the scientific method emerged to objectively prove those of African descent are inferior...bias built into objectivity from beginning
# [tipoqueno] ↩️ Just the hosting part. I don't want to use those products from corporations, but still I don't know how to work with this in a own hosting (I'm a Designer)
# Ryuno-Ki Red Team / Blue Team is also known in information security: Red team are attackers, Blue team are defenders
# petermolnar [jgmac1106]: not nitpicking but that statement need citation
# [tipoqueno] ↩️ So maybe a hosting alternative that works with Git, and a tutorial to put everything in place it's what I need. What do you think?
# petermolnar > a hosting alternative that works with Git - I don't know what you mean. Git repository hosting? Website hosting? etc.
# [Simon_Willison] ↩️ If you want to run your own GitHub style service GitLab is open source and can be run in Docker containers - it’s got pretty much everything GitHub has, and it’s very well built and actively maintained
# [Simon_Willison] ↩️ They also have over 1,000 employees and a solid business model (selling their hosted version) so it’s a pretty safe project to bet on IMO
# petermolnar gitea is a LOT lighter and simpler; only go gitlab if you need ci/cd and the heavyweight part
# [chrisaldrich] If you've got questions for David, please post them here and we'll go through them all as we have time....
# [jgmac1106] one sec petermonlar.
# Ryuno-Ki Are the slides online somewhere? (For reading later)
# [jgmac1106] petermolnar this goes over the eugenics connection to modern stats: http://nautil.us/issue/92/frontiers/how-eugenics-shaped-statistics?utm_source=pocket-newtab I will find another on the enlightenment and scientific revolution
# [chrisaldrich] daviddylanthomas++
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# maxwelljoslyn Ryuno, don't take this as authoritative, but it looks like David posts hs talkson his website https://www.daviddylanthomas.com/
# maxwelljoslyn So it may appear there soon
# [chrisaldrich] What are presentations?
# Loqi Presentations and slide decks about the indieweb (in chronological order) are listed below https://indieweb.org/presentations
# Ryuno-Ki Regarding how design shapes the thinking ... I'd defer to micro.blog and their stance regarding „likes”
# Zegnat Join us right now: Online Indiewebcamp East https://indieweb.org/2020/East, Homebrew Website Club Meetups https://events.indieweb.org/tag/hwc, Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log https://chat.indieweb.org/today
# [jgmac1106] petermolnar these readings go a bit further in trying to debase the humancentric view of scientific method: http://longthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/doku.php?id=multispeciesworlding
# Ryuno-Ki @maxwelljoslyn: Thanks. Just got to know David here.
# [tipoqueno] ↩️ Thanks Simon.
# [tipoqueno] So, or I can find some ethic alternative, or I'll need to learn to host a Git repository by myself.
# [tipoqueno] I don't like Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/-/merge_requests/30656#note_230376176
# [tipoqueno] I really only need to have basic features, like host websites and eventually PWA.
# 
[schmarty] Oh the zoom back channel is here in main? 😅
# Asher1 Hi Chat! I'm trying to figure out how to connect via Matrix. There should probably be instructions on the Matrix page https://indieweb.org/Matrix
# Ryuno-Ki Chris: You have a background in math as well. Do you also think about statements like in „Expression logic“?
# [jgmac1106] agree with you Carolline maybe a little bit of friction improves discourse
# Ryuno-Ki (E.g. what would need to change to falsify a statement)
# [jgmac1106] Carolline I don't give the domains out in my classes at the beginning now...we focus more on the culture of being webby and learning out loud first, having better luck
# 
[jeremycherfas] Statistics != scientific method
# petermolnar Asher1: once you've succeeded, could you please add missing the instructions to the page?
# [jgmac1106] I know I am looking for the scientifc method article Jeremy, not saying it is all bad just bias built into our idea of objectivity
# petermolnar [tipoqueno]: github's "basic" feature is not, in any form, hosting websites. It's for hosting git repositories, with ticketing, and maybe a wiki.
# Zegnat Asher1: there are element.io liks on https://indieweb.org/discuss#Join_Discussions for all the different channels. Sadly I am not familiar with MAtrix, but do those help?
# petermolnar [tipoqueno]: but if I misunderstood, any it's solely for repos, check https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/
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# Asher1 @petermolnar yeah there are instructions in the normal IRC page so I'll add the link ot the Matrix page too
# [jeremycherfas] Your claim is way too broad, and likely to make me not consider other statements you make.
# Zegnat [Ian_Forrester] in #indieweb-chat pointed out that David is also on the SXSW panel picker. So for people who liked the presentation for IWC, they may want to consider giving him an upvote there: https://panelpicker.sxsw.com/vote/109832
# [jgmac1106] okay I will change it, the majority of advancements in scientific methods during the enlightenment emerged as the result of trying to establish the inferiority of those of African decsent. A few centuries later the majority of advancement of statistics happened in the study of eugenics
# [jgmac1106] our credible web W3c CG white paper: https://www.w3.org/2018/10/credibility-tech/ (though I don't think this is a problem for metadata)
# [chrisaldrich] Ibrahm X. Kendi does a good job of laying out some of that history in his book Stamped from the Beginning [jgmac1106]
# [jgmac1106] [tipoqueno] have you tried glitch super easy to host websites
# [jeremycherfas] If those scientific methods are applied to, say, pulsars, are they still suspect?
# petermolnar [jgmac1106], [jeremycherfas]: -chat?
# [schmarty] The idea of adding specific friction to help people make meaningful decisions has me thinking!!!
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# carolline The comment of Schmudde is already so biased... I have never thought about me benig just a data point. I see myself in the web as a person. So here I guess I can see bias in action.
# [jgmac1106] ursula franklin all day [schmarty] Jack Jameson brought the friction of holistic art to me in terms of IndieWeb design
# [jeremycherfas] If the statistics are used to determine the likelihood of two observations of different chemicals on human health, are they wrong?
# petermolnar [schmarty]: there were articles that search results had to be delayed to users so they'd believe that the search actually happened, a computer made something in the background. I'll try to find it, but this was a long while ago.
# [chrisaldrich] Again, you can find David Dylan Thomas and a link to his book at his website (naturally): https://www.daviddylanthomas.com/
# [jgmac1106] I did not say wrong, just bias is built into the idea of objectivity
# Ryuno-Ki carolline: Depends on the lense with which you look at it. From a Marketing point of view, you might be a lead. Analytics could consider you a datapoint. Backend a row in a database … Designers perhaps (not always) as a human being
# [jgmac1106] and medical statistics versus applying the same regression models in social science not always a smooth match
# [Ian_Forrester] Following David Dylan Thomas's talk during indiewebcampeast
# [jeremycherfas] Objectivity is a fiction based on popper and physics envy.
# [jgmac1106] thx Jeremy what I was trying to say
# schmudde carolline: indeed. I was responding to the MLK perspective with the perspective I've read from a couple of pessimistic academic papers. The idea that we are conforming ourselves to the computer more than we realized. But I'm open to the idea that current outcomes on social media are not implicit in the technology.
# petermolnar [schmarty]: oh. That may have been a company internal a/b testing result; the slowing down search so more people would believe it. I won't be able to share that.
# [schmarty] petermolnar: that sounds familiar so I feel like I have come across a similar story!
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# [chrisaldrich] Ryuno-Ki, I saw your message and will try to get back to you in a bit... I'm a bit duck paddling quickly at the moment. 🙂
# Ryuno-Ki My fav example of „Fonts Matters” is https://pics.onsizzle.com/fonts-matter-a-ill-alwas-be-mine-youll-always-be-mine-6277738.png
# [schmarty] tantek: the frictions of a personal site definitely changed my behaviors as well... but I am thinking many of those frictions are incidental rather than intentional!
# Ryuno-Ki Go, hunt for another cup of tea/coffee, Chris :-)
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# [schmarty] Hehe. [hibs] showed us the map of registered axes show she could take us into the ✨unknown✨
# DavidDylanThomas Here's the list of resources I promised to post: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZOoY_Ol_w2P_C0VRKCmkbjObQvtBYYTUVnDELLly0Fw/edit?usp=sharing
# asher[m] Yay joined via matrix and updated the wiki, thanks for the links yall
# [chrisaldrich] asher++
# DavidDylanThomas Unfortunately I have to go, but thank you all so much! Feel free to stay in touch via https://www.daviddylanthomas.com/t in touch via
# [jgmac1106] I wish people shared more of Dr. King's later quotes and writing on capitalism, speaking of which I am looking for the quote Dylan shared
# [Raphael_Luckom] Thanks, that was great!
# [jgmac1106] DavidDylanThomas++
# [jgmac1106] I wanna combine the poetry and variable font sessions now....I see pretty letters and heard eigenvalues....its all the geeky things that get me excited
# carolline Ryuno-Ki, I agree with you, and I think this is what bias is about. The lens you have on to look into the reality. And I am not critiquing it, just observing bias in action. And it might be something to observe is that I am the least techi person on earth, nevertheless, I am keen to learn all what I can :-)
# schmudde Yes, that was a beautiful quote, [jgmac1106]. The first thing that came up was this Guardian article that uses it. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/jan/19/martin-luther-king-legacy
# [jgmac1106] cool code pens I don't even need to know how things work I can just hack on those to make fun poems.....looks sooooo much easier than css animation....but then again haven't peaked under the hood yet
# [jgmac1106] I have a lot of quotes from Dewey on how we design the web. Glad to add MLK especially since "people-centric" is the IndieWeb tagline
# carolline Do you mean John Dewey Greg?
# [jgmac1106] yeah
# [jgmac1106] okay it looks like css animation. If fourtonfish is around today I can learn enough CSS to get more poems out of my head
# [schmarty] 👏👏👏👏👏
# [jgmac1106] hib++
# [jgmac1106] hibs++
# schmudde Did you source where MLK said that, [jgmac1106]? Please share the link if you have.
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# [Sue_Hanen] hibs++
# [jgmac1106] schmudde looking now
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# schmudde thx
# [chrisaldrich] What are variable fonts?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "variable fonts" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "variable fonts is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [schmarty] These are great resources and examples! Thanks so much [hibs] !!
# Gyuri That responsive transition is great
# carolline I will ask here because my question is so basic. How do I use these varialble fonts? How do I get access to them? What is codepen? So, sorry, I have no idea and maybe I can learn somewhere
# [jgmac1106] I have a bunch of quotes here: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/tag/quote but I started a wiki because my websites get too hard to search....think I need to make a quote page
# Asher1 Can you go over what typical axis variants are?
# [chrisaldrich] What is codepen?
# Asher1 I don't see how to raise my hand on Zoom just thumbs up and clap
# Loqi codepen is a silo for hosting HTML, CSS and JavaScript snippets to demonstrate the capabilities of the client-side Web https://indieweb.org/codepen
# [chrisaldrich] You can go next Asher1 or I'll ask on your behalf if you wish.
# [jgmac1106] I am using viewport fonts as well, loving lack of media queries even thoguh I don't have them all correct yet
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# carolline Thank you for posting the question :-)
# Ryuno-Ki hibs: I've learned about variable fonts via Mandy Michael's https://codepen.io/collection/XqRLMb
# asher[m] I see Google fonts also has sliders for the axes
# stevewil[m] I came in late to chat, but I just want to say David Dylan Thomas' point about "friction" is awesome
# [Ian_Forrester] Love to know what happens if you install the vari-font on a operating system
# [jgmac1106] jeremycherfas did an awesome post series on his typography I think
# [Ian_Forrester] Wonder which operating system would use it
# petermolnar [Ian_Forrester]: some people just want to see the world burn, eh? :D
# [tipoqueno] ↩️ I still don't know how Glitch works 😕
# [jgmac1106] we should prioritize newcomers for site demos I am happy to skip
# carolline Thank you!! Yes! Really interesting!
# Gyuri can we have a little break?
# Gyuri I tried to login with my gyuri.micro.blog accoutn approved it but still not being able to get in
# Ryuno-Ki Not sure, whether my Audio works
# petermolnar bios can take break, synths are not allowed to
# 
[tantek] I have to duck out, but if [chrisaldrich] (or any organizer) wants to do a 30-sec demo of my site tantek.com they're welcome to do so! Got an RSVP, couple of github issues, replies, notes there in my stream at the top demonstrating how you can own all sorts of different kinds of content you post on the web *and* post in the places people will see it (instead of only posting to silos)
# Gyuri Ok
# [Ian_Forrester] Where is the etherpad?
# [Ian_Forrester] thx
# Ryuno-Ki yw
# [schmarty] [Ian_Forrester] that's the sessions etherpad. the intros one is https://etherpad.indieweb.org/lightning-introductions
# Ryuno-Ki we lip-sync Dmitri :-D
# [schmarty] i can do it actya
# [schmarty] actually
# [Simon_Willison] She doesn’t yet, but she probably should have one - she’s quite active on Twitter https://twitter.com/cleopaws
# [Simon_Willison] More details of that personal warehouse project (and pictures of Cleo the dog) here: https://simonwillison.net/2020/Nov/14/personal-data-warehouses/
# [Simon_Willison] [schmarty] I would love to see your iOS shortcuts
# Ryuno-Ki @Marty: Sounds like a case for ActivityPub (I learned about it via GNU MediaGoblin)
# [schmarty] thanks for showing my site [chrisaldrich] ++
# [Ian_Forrester] ↩️ Ah this is what I was after
# [schmarty] Ryuno-Ki: i'm not too keen on all the work required to integrate my site with activitypub. my site already has feeds in RSS/Atom and h-feed formats.
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# Gyuri Would like to see how that webmention would work
# carolline David that feature is highly interesting, I would be interested in learning more about that
# [jgmac1106] hibs messing up my javascript I think but getting close: https://jgregorymcverry.com/indiewebpoetry
# carolline I use Hypothes.is also and it is an excellent tool
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# [KevinMarks] I use a poodle emoji 🐩 for my dog related checkins
# [schmarty] [Simon_Willison] i might be able to share more about them! it's not the easiest because it's kind of a combination of shortcuts handling different parts of the process.
# Gyuri How can I get into the queue for short intro?
# schmudde carolline: +1 I'd like to learn more about embedding hypothe.is as well.
# [schmarty] Gyuri: the etherpad is here https://etherpad.indieweb.org/lightning-introductions
# jenna can we get the short short what is activitypub?
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# [Ana_Rodrigues] it’s been wondering to meet everyone and their cool websites : ) I need a rest so I will be back a bit later. Have fun everyone
# [jgmac1106] What is activitypub?
# Loqi ActivityPub is a decentralized social networking protocol (W3C Recommendation) developed in the Social Web Working Group based on pump.io and ActivityStreams. Conceptually they were all preceded by OStatus. It was briefly known as ActivityPump before being renamed to ActivityPub https://indieweb.org/ActivityPub
# [schmarty] hmm. that definition could probably stand updating.
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# [schmarty] jenna: i'd say the "short short" definition is that ActivityPub is a protocol for sharing social media posts, replies, and more between sites. the most famous example is probably Mastodon, a Twitter-alike where you can join a specific server based on their vibe, but can also interact with folks on other Mastodon sites and other sites that support ActivityPub.
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# Ryuno-Ki Sound doesn't work
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# [chrisaldrich] Zegnat, we're in the middle of introductions...
# Ryuno-Ki Sometimes, Zoom picks up my mic, sometimes it doesn't :-/
# [chrisaldrich] the list is at https://etherpad.indieweb.org/lightning-introductions
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# Ryuno-Ki Have to leave for a moment (but will still be online) to pick up my family
# Ryuno-Ki @dmitri: What do you use as web UI for your git repos on your website?
# [jgmac1106] Steven here is my vitas page: https://jgregorymcverry.com/resume
# Zegnat sl007: not sure you had seen it, but the list [chrisaldrich] was reading from for the presentations: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/lightning-introductions :)
# maxwelljoslyn h0p3 maybe something åbout your philosophy/ies and how wiki-fying embodies it/them?
# jenna @schmarty — thanks for the short short def!
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# Ryuno-Ki Fun fact: I picked up a Webmention python library
# [chrisaldrich] Coming up next: session scheduling: https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule
# [chrisaldrich] The Etherpad for proposing sessions can be found here: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2020-East-Sessions
# Ryuno-Ki Is that a diaspora* Instance, Sebastian?
# [jgmac1106] schmarty on holistic art and tech and friction as a good thing: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2020/02/11/paradox-of-technology-1
# schmudde [jgmac1106]: if you didn't find the source for the MLK citation, it is from this speech: https://www.democracynow.org/2013/1/21/dr_martin_luther_king_in_1967
# petermolnar lahacker: your site throws an error for me; console says http 500, though it delivers some content
# sl007 Ryuno-Ki Yes https://pluspora.com which came up when google+ came down. Normally I am sl007@mastodon.social …
# sl007 URLs redaktor.me + #apconf 2019 https://redaktor.me/apconf/ and 2020 virtual https://conf.activitypub.rocks/#live
# Ryuno-Ki @sl007: Cool! I still have an account on Geraspora :-)
# Ryuno-Ki We'll have dinner here shortly (about 30 minutes). Will write again, once the time is more concrete
# [chrisaldrich] Again, if anyone has any questions or needs any help for proposing sessions, we're here to help, just let us know.
# [chrisaldrich] Session proposals page details: https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Proposals and here's the etherpad: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2020-East-Sessions
# Gyuri I am trying to login to the wiki with my gyuri.micro.blog account is that possible?
# [chrisaldrich] Ergodic: I ran across this this week: https://gumroad.com/l/ergodicity
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# [jgmac1106] You get a blog, bring a passion. You made the world a little bit better
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# [Ian_Forrester] I need to disappear between 1830-1930 GMT sorry but will be back
# Ryuno-Ki @Angelo That vouch thing sounds a bit like „Web of Trust”
# [Ian_Forrester] Sounds good
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# [KevinMarks] Ian would your PDS one fit with Simon's dogsheep?
# [Ian_Forrester] I did suggest this but Simon has a very clear view on the session, so I don't think so?
# [Ian_Forrester] Mine is much more this is what we have done so far and what can be done now
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# [Ian_Forrester] Much more open discussion
# [jgmac1106] hibs I am still gonna want to hack on variable fonts tomorrow
# [jgmac1106] and hope you do a typography session during the Poetry Pop Up Session
# [Ian_Forrester] Will be back after 1930
# Ryuno-Ki @Chris My talk (Identity) is flagged as scheduled, but not listed in the schedule
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# carolline hello I went to the toilet and when I was back zoom is gone
# carolline and I think there is a group picture now?
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# [Sue_Hanen] The new room links will show up here when they are ready
# carolline Thank you Sue
# 
GWG Orange Room Link - https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81955019237?pwd=N0dPOG1uQ3VrOUtLSFlNUVJGQzl4QT09
# GWG Yellow Room Link - https://us02web.zoom.us/j/89833032971?pwd=eldNQTl6YzdMYWpKV2IwYTBwQjlBQT09
# Gyuri Orange room no video
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# [Simon_Willison] Are the sessions running exactly to the schedule, or are they delayed?
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# [Simon_Willison] I created an Etherpad for the Personal Data Warehouses session but I can’t figure out how to add a link to it from the schedule https://etherpad.indieweb.org/indiewebcamp-east-2020-personal-data-warehouses
# [Simon_Willison] Erk, I didn’t realize how many things had been combined into that session!
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# 
[dmitshur] > delayed
# [dmitshur] Do we know the starting time of the first session roughly? Or is that still being figured out?
# maxwelljoslyn Simon: I think only 1 thing was combined
# maxwelljoslyn with yours
# [chrisaldrich] Looks like both of the first sessions have started off
# [Simon_Willison] No, four things were - *How does personal data stores work for the IndieWeb? Personal Data Warehouses - Dogsheep, Nostalgia, Nextcloud, more - combined with “Meta information from the physical world” and “Webnative/Indie Web & Web 3.0"*
# [dmitshur] Oh, thanks Chris.
# [chrisaldrich] The schedule is now up at https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule
# maxwelljoslyn missed the edits ty
# [chrisaldrich] There are links on each of the sessions for a communal etherpad for each. Facilitators should encourage everyone to take notes on the session as we go along. Assigning or asking someone to take notes for the group can be helpful as well.
# [Simon_Willison] times are updated in the schedule
# [chrisaldrich] We'll archive the session notes on the wiki after sessions/camp is over.
# [Simon_Willison] First session started 11 minutes ago, second session is now at 2:50pm eastern time which is 49 minutes from now
# [Simon_Willison] Can we add Zoom links to the schedule too?
# [Simon_Willison] Ignore me they are there already
# maxwelljoslyn could be nice to repeat them at the bottom of the table, or partway thru before the session boxes
# maxwelljoslyn i had to hunt too :/
# maxwelljoslyn i had to hunt too :/
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# maxwelljoslyn I hereby release that idea under cc0
# saunders orange room, etc, accessible only via zoom?
# saunders thanks Zegnat
# saunders I tried to connect via the zoom link, but get "meeting not yet started' message - so not sure how to get to the "rooms"
# saunders (using zoom in browser...)
# saunders thanks alot petermolnar
# Ryuno-Ki @Chris „Once you know something it's hard to remember how it was before you know it.” - I've learned about it as „Curse of Knowledge”
# Ryuno-Ki @saunders: I'm connected via web as well
# [dmitshur] In case anyone missed it, the session start times have been updated, refresh https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule.
# [dmitshur] Right now we're in session 1, ending in 20 mins, then 10 min break.
# [dmitshur] Session 2 will start in 30 min.
# [dmitshur] Session 3 in 1hr30 min, etc.
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# maxwelljoslyn Simon Willison: since there are a few open slots in Yellow perhaps you could ask 1 or more of the combined-in sessions to split out again? :)
# [Ian_Forrester] Ok good to know!
# [Ian_Forrester] Oh nice I'm combining with others cool
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# [Ian_Forrester] Oh ok... ummmm need to think fast 🙂
# [Ian_Forrester] Think Simon had a clear idea and I don't want to interfere with that
# [dmitshur] tantek, h0p3 is doing a quick demo in Orange Room which is indeed "Spreading the IndieWeb Beyond Developers"
# 
jamietanna[m] Not sure if folks have seen it but Kev's article is being talked about on https://lobste.rs/s/mdprfl/removing_support_for_indieweb
# jamietanna[m] Hope IWC East is going well folks!
# [dmitshur] I think this is the only/main chat room for all rooms. Each session also has an etherpad for taking notes.
# [dmitshur] I'm guessing people are mostly talking video/audio.
# [dmitshur] via*
# [Ian_Forrester] Ha yes I'm transfixed on it
# [chrisaldrich] We should be wrapping up the first session....
# maxwelljoslyn Caroline: as much as I would like to take credit for h0p3's genius, the person presenting right now is h0p3 ("Hope"), not me Maxwell
# Ryuno-Ki Looks like raising hand doesn't work on Zoom
# [Simon_Willison] *Personal Data Warehouses* is starting in the red room in five minutes time:
# [Simon_Willison] Etherpad link: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/personaldata
# [Simon_Willison] Zoom link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85086304878?pwd=Z1hWRzdSekJLR2pvVU1vQVJXSzlWQT09
# carolline can someone give me the link to the red room? Sorry!
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# [Simon_Willison] Red room https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85086304878?pwd=Z1hWRzdSekJLR2pvVU1vQVJXSzlWQT09
# carolline got it
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# maxwelljoslyn dmitshur - are you still on to discuss hyperproductivity?
# maxwelljoslyn Nvm
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# [Raphael_Luckom] Is there an etherpad or something where we can collaborate on "here are my projects that I'm interested in working on; lmk if you're interested?" I have a number of personal things that I could do and I'd like to prioritize based on which ones could help me meet other people interested in similar things.
# Ryuno-Ki I'm deeply sorry, but I have to drop out for today.
# shoesNsocks that would be interesting...
# Ryuno-Ki My health just went south.
# [chrisaldrich] I think there's a hidden link in there, I'll uncomment it...
# Ryuno-Ki I'll try to make some time tomorrow. But I can't stand it right now. Hopefully, someone else can facilitate my session in slot #4
# [Raphael_Luckom] thank you!
# carolline That sounds interesting tantek
# carolline Sorry Ryuno-ki that you are unwell, hope you get better soon!
# [chrisaldrich] It's already there under Sunday under the heading projects: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2020-East-Projects
# [chrisaldrich] ^^ that's what you were looking for right?
# [chrisaldrich] Can be found on wiki at https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule#Projects
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# maxwelljoslyn Thanks for the link Chris, and good idea Ryuno
# maxwelljoslyn -Ki
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# [Ian_Forrester] [Simon_Willison] have you looked at Open Humans
# [Simon_Willison] More about Dogsheep here: https://simonwillison.net/2020/Nov/14/personal-data-warehouses/
# [Ian_Forrester] ↩️ https://www.openhumans.org/
# [Simon_Willison] ↩️ I have not!
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# [Simon_Willison] ↩️ Oh that’s really interesting - people share notebooks there that can perform analysis on your personal data https://exploratory.openhumans.org/notebook/12/
# [Simon_Willison] ↩️ I’m not keen on uploading my stuff to a third party though - part of my goal with Dogsheep is to allow people to run analysis exclusively on their own computers (or their own server) without sharing their data
# [Ian_Forrester] ↩️ I understand but its something which I have used in the past.
# [Ian_Forrester] ↩️ I find the sharing of logic quite powerful
# Zegnat Think one of the only things I can think of might be https://data.verborgh.org/ruben
# [Simon_Willison] I’ve published subsets of my data - here’s my public GitHub activity over some of my projects https://github-to-sqlite.dogsheep.net/github
# [Simon_Willison] and here are 488 photos I’ve published https://dogsheep-photos.dogsheep.net/public/photos_with_apple_metadata
# [Ian_Forrester] ↩️ Seems there could be something you could both share especially since its also trying to do similar
# [Simon_Willison] (my private Dogsheep has 40,000 photos)
# [Ian_Forrester] Will share with Open Humans, when I log into their slack 🙂
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# [KevinMarks] so what the dogsheep made me think of was this conversation yesterday https://twitter.com/LeaVerou/status/1327403615162691585
# 
@LeaVerou @hdv I wish there was a successor to XSLT. Lots of ugliness, but lots of good ideas there too. (twitter.com/_/status/1327403615162691585)
# 
@kevinmarks @LeaVerou @hdv It always had the "now you have two problems" feeling. Maybe the 2 problems are: 1. Parse the bits I want out of this 2. Create a new page using a template I've written a lot of these kind of things, and XSLT seemed to mix them up. (twitter.com/_/status/1327409292887150592)
# [Ian_Forrester] XSLT is beautiful 🙂
# [KevinMarks] so Simon has been working on both halves of this with SQLite in the middle instead of xpath
# [Simon_Willison] I really like SQL for this kind of thing - SQLite’s implementation is great, it has window functions and CTEs and suchlike
# [Ian_Forrester] Xquery
# [Raphael_Luckom] had to look up xslt--it reminds me of `jq` but for xml, is that close?
# [Raphael_Luckom] yeah it is
# [Simon_Willison] I actually have a Datasette plugin that adds a custom SQL function that can execute JQ transformations!
# [Raphael_Luckom] well, actually it has templates, so theoretically any string, but it sure isn't going to help you unless you want json
# [Simon_Willison] I built it partly as a devious joke - so I could embed JQ in my SQL and then stick that in a querystring - but it’s also quite useful
# [Simon_Willison] https://github.com/simonw/datasette-jq
# [Simon_Willison] here’s an example query https://datasette-jq-demo.datasette.io/demo?sql=select+package%2C+%22https%3A%2F%2Fpypi.org%2Fproject%2F%22+%7C%7C+package+%7C%7C+%22%2F%22+as+url%2C%0D%0Ajq%28info%2C+%22%7Bsummary%3A+.info.summary%2C+author%3A+.info.author%2C+versions%3A+.releases%7Ckeys%7Creverse%7D%22%29%0D%0Afrom+packages
# [Raphael_Luckom] jq is a hell of a drug 😄
# [Simon_Willison] ```select package, "https://pypi.org/project/" || package || "/" as url,
# [Simon_Willison] jq(info, "
{summary: .info.summary, author: .info.author, versions: .releases|keys|reverse}")# [Simon_Willison] from packages```
# [Simon_Willison] This is the essay by Stephen Wolfram that inspired me to build Dogsheep https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-productive-life-some-details-of-my-personal-infrastructure/
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# [Simon_Willison] If you haven’t read it you should read it - it’s A Journey
# [KevinMarks] I do things like this with google photos, foursquare and my tweet archives, but integrating them sounds good
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# petermolnar [Simon_Willison]: if you're not familiar with this, please read it: https://pastebin.com/0xXV8k7k - Piotr Czerski "We, the Web Kids."
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# [KevinMarks] also Cory's Outboard Brain essay https://web.archive.org/web/20040616003452/http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/01/01/cory.html
# [KevinMarks] tying back to cognitive load this is where tags came from http://epeus.blogspot.com/2005/10/tags-and-cognitive-load.html
# Loqi mood is sometimes expressed explicitly in or about a post, by the post author https://indieweb.org/mood
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# [chrisaldrich] Reminder: The Yellow Room is open as an impromptu Hallway track for the rest of the day: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/89833032971?pwd=eldNQTl6YzdMYWpKV2IwYTBwQjlBQT09
# [Ian_Forrester] Thanks!
# [chrisaldrich] what a second... how did DoOO LMS and Poetry end up in the same timeslot....
# [dmitshur] Thanks to everyone in the hyperproductivity session! Its etherpad link is https://etherpad.indieweb.org/hyperproductivity.
# [KevinMarks] where's the latest schedule?
# [Simon_Willison] Starting in 7 min
# [Simon_Willison] https://indieweb.org/2020/East/Schedule
# [Simon_Willison] Starting in 5 minutes:
# [Simon_Willison] • *Domain of One’s Own LMS* in red room: red zoom, etherpad
# [Simon_Willison] • *IndieWeb and Poetry* in orange room: orange zoom, etherpad
# [Simon_Willison] Hallway track is in the yellow room: yellow zoom
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# [Simon_Willison] Starting in 5 minutes:
# [Simon_Willison] • *Discovery: A TRek Through the Indieweb* in room red: red zoom, etherpad
# [Simon_Willison] • *Identity on the Web* in room orange: orange zoom, etherpad
# [dmitshur] I gotta head out earlier, after session 3, due to a pre-existing timing conflict. Thanks to everyone for an awesome IWC so far, and enjoy the rest! 👋
# petermolnar [chrisaldrich]: new session in 4 minutes
# Gyuri Thanks for all the great sessions. My eyes cannot take more screentime cu tomorrow.
# [jgmac1106] maxwelljoslyn great hosting a poetry session with you, let's get the community going, anyone can write poetry, start with found poems is a strategy. I also added some getting started tips to the etherpad
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# [chrisaldrich] Thanks for coming Gyuri!
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# [chrisaldrich] can't wait for the poetry session video to be posted.
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# 
[calumryan] Heading offline for the day. Good effort on the organizers, interesting sessions and great to see some new folks at IWC
# [jgmac1106] chrisaldrich I was a little flustered thinking I was going into the LMS session (I gots sooo many ideas) it took me a second to get situated. Luckily maxwelljoslyn was there to save the day
# [jgmac1106] hibs++ for teaching us how to make it pretty. meaning found in the spaces between letters and words
# [jgmac1106] usually in the case of my poetry pretty means really ugly, I shouldn't associate the word pretty with design too engencdered
# [chrisaldrich] What is OPML?
# Loqi OPML stands for Outline Processor Markup Language, an XML-based format and defacto standard used for feed lists interchange https://indieweb.org/OPML
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# [chrisaldrich] What is discovery
# Loqi Discovery is a variety of methods for finding content, websites, communities, or people to follow on the web including search, directories, recommendation engines, tags, or other serendipitous methods https://indieweb.org/discovery
# petermolnar re discovery session: what is Technorati?
# petermolnar what is Technorati?
# Loqi Technorati was a real-time blog search engine that provided comprehensive date-ordered results within seconds of when people published on their blogs https://indieweb.org/Technorati
# [chrisaldrich] What is superfeedr?
# Loqi Superfeedr provides a variety of ways to access real-time feed updates, including a popular PubSubHubbub-0.4 compliant hub https://indieweb.org/Superfeedr
# [KevinMarks] you're talking technorati? maybe I shoudl be in there
# [chrisaldrich] When the current session is over, if folks want to hop into the Zoom Red Room, we can do a quick wrap up and talk about tomorrow.
# [chrisaldrich] Yes, Kevin Marks, you could/should join us... talking about discovery.
# petermolnar [KevinMarks]: I said your name three times, and you didn't appear; truth is: we're talking discovery, which kinda ties in to Technorati.
# [Ian_Forrester] Generative identity — beyond self-sovereignty identity- https://www.philipsheldrake.com/2019/09/generative-identity-beyond-self-sovereignty/
# [chrisaldrich] What is tummeling?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tummeling" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "tummeling is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# [KevinMarks] tummeling is what a /tummler does - keep the conversation going, quieten the too noisy people, encourage the quiet ones to speak up. Without it communities tend to fall apart.
# [chrisaldrich] What is h-card?
# Loqi h-card is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up people, organizations, and venues on web sites https://indieweb.org/h-card
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# stevewil[m] To Chris and all the organizers and people who participated and watched, that was great! Really enjoyed.