#indieweb 2021-03-29

2021-03-29 UTC
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: Hemingway would "just" call them adverbs :P
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KartikPrabhu jk, some are adjectives
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[tantek] KartikPrabhu I think Hemingway would provide a more meaningful answer than that
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[tantek] "dude" is an informalism, and "like" is a filler
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KartikPrabhu "dude! like just lmao" ;)
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[tantek] it's the use of "just", "simply", and "basically" which are the most damaging/misleading in explanations. the others are relatively harmless
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KartikPrabhu agreed
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[tantek] they're kind of like the verbal equivalent of chartjunk
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KartikPrabhu not the same field but related: https://twitter.com/helenczerski/status/1375915057905856513
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@helenczerski A friend has just shown me this book "Calculus made easy", published in 1914, and I think it's got one of the best prologues I've ever seen. This is *exactly* what textbooks should be doing. And they should all be honest about how terrifying the topic names are too. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exg7F4NWUAUIgCN.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1375915057905856513)
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[tantek] verysimplest--
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Loqi verysimplest has -1 karma over the last year
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vilhalmer what a good prologue
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[tantek] alright, I asked the Twitters, let's see if others have ideas: https://twitter.com/t/status/1376330153047982084
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@t Are there other words like: "basically" "just" "simply" used in explanations/instructions to obscure actual complexity or difficulty? Is there a name for such words? They often shame the reader as a side-effect (if it’s not easy, it must be my fault) https://tantek.com/t5Bu3 (twitter.com/_/status/1376330153047982084)
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[tw2113_Slack_] i try to avoid "simply", "just", "easily" etc with documentation because not everyone is at the same knowledge level as othres
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[tw2113_Slack_] it may be easy for you, but it's brand new for someone else and they may be struggling
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[tantek] I get it! Simply avoid using "basically", "easily", and "just" in documentation! 😂
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[scojjac] I have heard that calculus book is excellent
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[scojjac] "all you have to do is" reset the flux capacitor
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[tantek] "all you have to do" certainly counts as a similar phrase to those words
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KartikPrabhu "essentially"
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[tantek] yup
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[tantek] https://twitter.com/toddbarnard/status/1376331509548920846
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@toddbarnard @t "obviously" "no-brainer" (twitter.com/_/status/1376331509548920846)
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aaronpk I feel like I've seen this written up in docs on how to write good docs
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[tantek] we've discussed some of these before, and I think added some to /wikify
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[tantek] oof nope I didn't. worse, /wikify has some unfortunate examples of this kind of trivializing :(
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[tantek] https://twitter.com/yoz/status/1376334677540134913
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@yoz @t “This process is straightforward” “Only” as in “you only have to” (alternatively, “all you have to do is...”) Also “common” and “standard”: “Use any common frobnitzer to open the compartment” or “open the compartment using the standard method” (twitter.com/_/status/1376334677540134913)
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[tantek] going to let this sit out there a bit, see what other examples people come up with, or suggestions for what to call these words/phrases
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[tantek] trying out "trivializers" which feels more specific than what wikipedia redirects to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimisation_(psychology)
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[tantek] "downplaying" resonates too. Perhaps "downplayers" as the category name.
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[tantek] interesting, Google's definition for "downplayer" fits quite well:
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[tantek] “*Downplayer*: A word used to make. someone or something look less significant.”
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[tantek] ah that extra period is from a PDF misparsing. https://www.deanza.edu/faculty/ramireztono/phil04/weekfiveoverhead.pdf
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KartikPrabhu downplayer sounds good
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KartikPrabhu or "condescender" :P
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[tantek] I think that may imply more intent than can be presumed
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[tantek] even if downplayers are often/sometimes used to condescend
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[tantek] will give it another couple of hours to see how folks feel about "downplayer" as a label for such terms and if the Twitter thread surfaces any more (there's a bunch there)
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aaronpk This is a pretty good article on specifically "simply", but they refer to a bunch of similar terms as "inflammatory words" https://www.knowledgeowl.com/home/dont-say-simply-jim-fisher
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aaronpk simply, naturally, merely, of course, just, “boom, you’re done”, obviously, trivially
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[KevinMarks] clearly
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[tantek] inflammatory doesn't capture it either, as that implies a more trollish intent
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[tantek] aaronpk++ that's a good article
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Loqi aaronpk has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (178 in all channels)
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[tantek] only thing I disagree with the is the attempt at naming them "inflammatory words"
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[tantek] they don't necessarily inflame, they may actually "depress" by way of shaming
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Ruxton inshametory :)
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Ruxton provocative might be a better term? though that seems to get viewed in a negative light even when not used in it
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[tantek] the terms are certainly not meant to provoke, they're intended to sound welcoming, approachable
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Ruxton yeah but they do provoke both positively and negatively depending on the people
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Rijen hi
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Rijen what's the chat. site using irc?
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Rijen to be specific https://chat.indieweb.org/
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[tantek] what is discuss?
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Loqi Join the #indieweb discussion via the web, Slack, IRC, or Matrix clients now with additional channels for dev, wordpress, and meta specific chat! https://indieweb.org/discuss
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[tantek] Rijen ^
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[Jeremy_Keith] Here’s something I wrote about just/simply a few years back: https://adactio.com/journal/13521
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[Jeremy_Keith] I like the sound of “downplayers”.
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Just change it
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[Jeremy_Keith] And there’s this from Brad Frost: https://bradfrost.com/blog/post/just/
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[tantek] [Jeremy_Keith]++ love the prior posts on this! And Brad's is from 2013!
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Loqi [Jeremy_Keith] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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doosboox just updated documentation for one of his projects because he's constantly using words like that
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[Murray] > Now there’s a damn good chance I’m actually an idiot, but the self-respecting part of me wants to challenge that notion.
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[Murray] ^ this quote from Brad is perfect 😂 #2meIRL4meIRL
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sebbu [Murray], there's also the possibility of thinking that you're right, like a forward thinker, while the World is wrong (like when people thought the sun circled around the earth, and only a few (or only one, after all, there must have been a first) said the opposite)
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brown121407 Hello! Just found out about indieweb, sounds pretty cool
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[scojjac] brown121407: Welcome!
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[scojjac] [tw2113_Slack_] Are you thinking about discovery of other sites, or surfacing your own stuff? I really like Jason Kottke's archive page, esp the way he uses tags. Personally, I like that the tags are not visually weighted.
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[scojjac] I'm not currently interested in posting listens to my site, but I have added a little widget that shows what I'm playing on Spotify at a given moment. It only updates with a page refresh at the moment, though.
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[scojjac] Hoping it can act as a enlivener and discovery tool for others
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[tw2113_Slack_] other peoples
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[tw2113_Slack_] what can i implement on my site, to help make me discoverable by other people as well as help people discover other people, and what can i look for on other peoples sites where i could discover even more.
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[tw2113_Slack_] so kind of both
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[tw2113_Slack_] hi [Jeremy_Keith]
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plainoldcheese[m Hi! been following indieweb stuff for a couple of weeks now and decided to check if there as a matrix server. Mostly just looking to add some more features, like webmentions, to my static site on GH pages.
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jacky plainoldcheese[m: nice! what's your URL?
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jacky wow yeah Kotte's archive page is very nice
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jacky lean but nice https://kottke.org/everfresh
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[tantek] archive << Example spanning 20+ years: https://kottke.org/everfresh
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Loqi ok, I added "Example spanning 20+ years: https://kottke.org/everfresh" to the "See Also" section of /archive https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=75102&oldid=74723
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doosboox Off topic question, but I’m considering buying https://gerrymcgovern.com/books/world-wide-waste/buy-the-book/ Has anyone here read it? $8 for an ebook feels a bit steep
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[tantek] doosboox, #indieweb-chat is great for off topic Qs! (more details at https://indieweb.org/discuss)
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jacky might be an interesting read: https://tatianamac.com/posts/let-me-learn/
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jacky mainly about how we craft some intro content as well
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[tantek] Tatiana is great
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[chrisaldrich] TatianaTMac++
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Loqi TatianaTMac has 1 karma over the last year
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