#indieweb 2023-02-07

2023-02-07 UTC
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] from another perspective, a /reply can have a name, e.g. an /issue post
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[timothy_chambe] See this, I think might be some Indieweb-to-Fediverse project funding here: Maybe help things like Bridgely evolve faster, [snarfed]? Other projects spring up? https://indieweb.social/@davidslifka@mastodon.social/109820394381467890
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Loqi [preview] [David Slifka] The fediverse has come this far despite being very capital-constrained.What if that constraint were lifted?If you have a project or idea (for- or non-profit) that helps build or grow the fediverse and would benefit from funding, I hope you'll apply h...
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[snarfed] thanks [timothy_chambe]! funding isn't a need for Bridgy/Bridgy Fed specifically, but maybe other projects...
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I don’t really understand co-posts (ref Twitter dropping cotweets) in general but they are a thing eg on Instagram. They seem to be something between a multi-author post and a coordinated repost.
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[jacky] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/18/myspace-loses-all-content-uploaded-before-2016
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[tw2113_Slack_] d’oh!
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[snarfed] Schrödinger's Backup in action. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."
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[tantek] wait, Myspace has content *after* 2016?!?
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[tantek] MySpace << Criticism: data-loss: 2019-03-18 The Guardian UK: [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/18/myspace-loses-all-content-uploaded-before-2016 Myspace loses all content uploaded before 2016] / Faulty server migration blamed for mass deletion of songs, photos and video
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: data-loss: 2019-03-18 The Guardian UK: [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/18/myspace-loses-all-content-uploaded-before-2016 Myspace loses all content uploaded before 2016] / Faulty server migration blamed for mass deletion of songs, photos and video" to the "See Also" section of /MySpace https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=86550&oldid=77777
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[snarfed] definitely unfortunate, but that was 2019, [jacky] what drew your interest to it now?
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[tantek] Indeed. I especially like the warning headers on old(er) Guardian Articles like that
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[tantek] " 🕒 This article is more than 3 years old" on a yellow background right on top of the article name/heading
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[tantek] has anyone done anything like that (manually or automatically) for their own blog posts? an age of post warning?
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sknebel I've seen that at a few blogs (esp tech bloggers), but cant remember an example right now...
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[tantek] sknebel, good to know, I'll look for it
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[tantek] is there a term for that feature or practice? I'd like to document it
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sknebel "old post warning" has a bunch of relevant google hits
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sknebel or old post notification
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[tantek] ah I found their post about it https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2019/apr/02/why-were-making-the-age-of-our-journalism-clearer
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sknebel https://brunty.me/post/display-message-on-old-hugo-entries/ https://www.wpbeginner.com/plugins/how-to-add-old-post-notification-on-your-wordpress-blog/ https://de.wordpress.org/plugins/old-post-alert/
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[tantek] ooh those are good. Guardian said: "all older news articles on our site will signpost their age even more emphatically."
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[tantek] and "Our new signposting shows the age of older articles"
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[tantek] interesting they’re also putting a yellow warning year in their link preview images: https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/f110b72b7bd5fef3e6a5482705c940c743eac5b7/0_0_611_481/master/611.png?width=620&quality=45&dpr=2&s=none
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[snarfed] Guardian++
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Loqi Guardian has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] caption: "The age of a publication will now be visible on social media before you click on it"
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[tantek] That's a fascinating use-case for *separate* link-preview properties
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[tantek] will take that tangent to #indieweb-dev
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I love this.
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capjamesg I could accomplish that with my open graph service.
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capjamesg If dt-published > 1 month, add badge.
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Loqi hey capjamesg, we try to keep jargon (Open Graph, Microformats) out of this channel to make it more inviting to newcomers, can you move this to #indieweb-dev?
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capjamesg :facepalm:
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capjamesg -> #dev.
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sknebel a month feels a bit small for many things
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sknebel an interesting question though what a good time is, depends on what you write.
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sknebel "important thing happens tomorrow" < "my cool new JS framework" < "review of $coffeeshop" < "how to make potato salad" :D
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sknebel (... do I get told off by loqi for the f-word?)
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capjamesg You mean fridge?
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[tantek] yo, I literally said, taking it to #indieweb-dev 🙄 capjamesg 😂
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capjamesg Sorry [tantek]. I moved to IRC and forgot :facepalm:
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[tantek] hah! scrollback context-loss problem, I get it
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capjamesg Plus a device change. Phone -> desktop.
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[tantek] capjamesg, clearly you need Universal Outbox so you can view at least the most recent things you've said elsewhere, on any channel, on any device
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sknebel capjamesg: there is only one word beginning with f in what I wrote :D)
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[tantek] lol
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capjamesg I read in reverse chronological order.
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capjamesg All the more context loss.
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capjamesg [tantek] Can you explain that idea to me?
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capjamesg I got the Inbox one but not Outbox.
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capjamesg Say everything in one place and it gets routed to the right destination?
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[tantek] capjamesg, I need to write a post about Universal Outbox because from what I can tell it has not been explored beyond a 2011 post that didn't seem to go anywhere. for now, do a chat search on Universal Outbox to see prior context.
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[tantek] (it's within the past week)
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capjamesg I still didn't get it.
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[tantek] you didn't find the search results or the search results didn't make sense to you?
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capjamesg I read the discussion when it happened and the wiki page but I didn't understand.
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[tantek] I don't think there's a wiki page 🤔
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capjamesg I mean the one you linked.
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[tantek] ah nm the "wiki" page I cited reads like a tweet so I forgot it was actually a /wiki/ page
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capjamesg http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/UniversalOutbox
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[tantek] yeah, it names it, and sorta half-hints at something but doesn't really define it
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capjamesg Yeah.
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[tantek] here's where I started defining it more explicitly:
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[tantek] https://chat.indieweb.org/2023-02-02#t1675376835968000
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Loqi [preview] [[tantek]] One unified place where you own all your writing no matter where it goes, public, (possibly dynamic) allowlist audience, or private
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capjamesg So you'd post in one place and it would be funneled elsewhere?
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[tantek] I wasn't making any assumptions about plumbing
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[tantek] or UX
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[tantek] other than a place where you the author could *view* your entire chronological history of everything you wrote anywhere
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[tantek] back to the old article warning from The Guardian. the posts that sknebel linked to called them different things too
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[tantek] "Old Post Alert" — name of WordPress plugin for this https://de.wordpress.org/plugins/old-post-alert/
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Loqi [preview] [Alex King] Beschreibung Old Post Alert shows a banner in your comments form for posts more than a month old. The banner reminds the commentor that there may be newer information available later in the blog. This may cut down on comments that are irrelevant due...
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[tantek] "old post notification" — from article https://www.wpbeginner.com/plugins/how-to-add-old-post-notification-on-your-wordpress-blog/
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[tantek] I think "notification" is misused here
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[tantek] "Out of Date" — from name of plugin DX Out of Date https://wordpress.org/plugins/dx-out-of-date/ (linked from that prior article)
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Loqi [preview] [nofearinc] Description DX Out of Date allows you to display a notification box on your posts when a given amount of time has passed. Quite handy when writing tutorials or any content that might get outdated due to external factors – now you could automati...
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[tantek] old post message/warning/disclaimer — from https://brunty.me/post/display-message-on-old-hugo-entries/
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[tantek] blog post about The Guardian's practice and the potential for additional similar techniques: https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/04/the-guardians-nifty-old-article-trick-is-a-reminder[…]news-organizations-can-use-metadata-to-limit-misinformation/
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[tantek] Slack-- for that dumb [...] link eliding 🤦
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Loqi Slack has -1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/04/the-guardians-nifty-old-article-trick-is-a-reminder-of-how-news-organizations-can-use-metadata-to-limit-misinformation/
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[KevinMarks] The notion that old articles are wrong is a bit odd https://softwarecrisis.dev/letters/tech-is-a-pop-culture/
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capjamesg Ah, I see. It's for viewing.
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capjamesg That's cool.
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] that article is not at all about the points that the The Guardian and Niemanlab are making. It's not about "better/worse" on some popularity scale, it's about providing context to history
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[tantek] this has nothing to do with popculture newness fetishization
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[snarfed] right, my interpretation of old post warnings is just a reminder that they're not current news, not that they're wrong
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] to put it another way, your expression "notion that old articles are wrong" is a bit of a strawman
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[aciccarello] Election results stories or annual events seem like relevant things to flag
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[KevinMarks] That was the subtext of a lot of those summaries, but I my have overstated it in my summary of them
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "What makes RSS better than social timelines?" https://tracydurnell.com/2023/02/07/what-makes-rss-better-than-social-timelines/
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sknebel see above, I think it really depends on what content it is how necessary/appropriate such notices are
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[tantek] agreed. which is why I appreciated the Nieman article because it addressed different content/contexts with different messages.
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[tantek] interesting article linked from that TracyDurnell post
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[tantek] https://rachsmith.com/tired-of-timelines/
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492>
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866577279223595022/1072608306805354526/IMG_3010.png
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> [tantek] that is how the guardian denotes publish dates in raged articles.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> *older
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Autocorrect 🤦
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[tantek] No it's separate from "publish dates"
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[tantek] In the articles, the explicit use of a warning display combined with a duration (not a date) makes it quite different
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[tantek] Also the addition of the warning does not alter the existing publication date presentation either
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[tantek] I do like that example of old post warning on an article in the context of a list of articles
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[tantek] Is anyone actually doing this on their own blog?
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[tantek] sknebel, linked to articles about plugins that let you do it but I didn't see any real world blog examples. (Even those semi-old articles about the plugins don't show any such warnings themselves lol)
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[tantek] I suppose we have enough to stub a page
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[tantek] is "old post warning" good enough of a name for now? (See other possibilities / examples above)
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[jeremycherfas] I feel there’s a somewhat different trend, especially with some kinds of how-to article, for them to have not obvious published date and yet be both out of date and highly ranked in a search. Makes fixing things quite frustrating at times.
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[snarfed] sounds like intentional SEO
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[tantek] jeremycherfas hah indeed I've seen that too. we can document that phenom as a related anti-pattern
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[tantek] and to [snarfed]'s point, I have seen that practice advocated in "SEO" articles "Don't put dates on your articles! So you can fool Google into thinking they’re current!"
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[tantek] might make for a good subcategory of anti-patterns: Deceptive Arts
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[dave] Add some hot glue and faux jewels and you've got deceptive arts and crafts