#indieweb 2024-01-12

2024-01-12 UTC
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[Al_Abut] I’m like halfway through this giant article on FB’s “data dialogue” meeting about federating Threads (apologies [tantek] if you wrote about it and I missed it?)
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[Al_Abut] http://plasticbag.org/archives/2024/01/how-threads-will-integrate-with-the-fediverse/
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[Al_Abut] Lots of inside baseball but also blunt candor, like the giant section guessing on the palace politics behind why they’re even doing it in the first place.
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[Al_Abut] OOPS. Already posted in #indieweb-dev and no wonder it’s crickets in here, everyone’s reading the same giant article. It’s like the quietest I’ve ever seen this gang 😆
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c​apjamesg 😄
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s​tarrwulfe heh
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c​apjamesg I would take a look now but it's past midnight 😅
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[snarfed] sleep++
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Loqi sleep has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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s​tarrwulfe Sleep never has enough karma for real
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[Al_Abut] good for you for prioritizing your health… wait, chat makes it into your sleep hygiene but reading doesn’t? 😆
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s​tarrwulfe Reading puts me to sleep after 11pm so it IS the routine for me.
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[Al_Abut] oh you’re avoiding sleep, got it, haha
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[Al_Abut] I read my wife a chapter of Catcher In The Rye two nights ago and I’m still sleepy from it
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s​tarrwulfe I like to read other people's blog posts related to a topic I'm thinking about as I drift off. Helps me process whatever the problem is the next day.
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[Al_Abut] I like that. Ben Franklin used to do something like that, like a lucid dreaming version of a nap. Supposedly if he felt like he was running in circles about something and needed a mental reboot, he’d try to fall asleep in a chair while holding a large metal ball. It would fall to the ground just as he was dozing off and wake him up.
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[Al_Abut] That would scare the crap out of my dogs, so I just go for a walk or hop in the shower.
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s​tarrwulfe That could well be where I got it from.
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s​tarrwulfe ...sans metal ball of course
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[Al_Abut] Well I wish you pleasant non-metallic dreams
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[tantek] Alright this is actually a non-dev topic, because it's about naming things for everyone, and user perspectives, so I'm copy/pasting here to discuss (instead of dev) :
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[tantek] Do I need to start saying I don't have a blog any more, I have a "social website" so people abandon their preconceived assumptions about what is a blog or not and what a blog can or should do or not?
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[jacky] I'm in favor of saying "social site" or "social website"
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[jacky] because it's new(-ish) language, it makes the distinctions more clear (that it's not the conventional blog but a place where I operate online)
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[tantek] yep this may be worth a post
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[tantek] "Never Mind The Bloggings, Here's My Social Website"
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[tantek] I'm going to need some help from someone good at graphics
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[snarfed] "social home"
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[snarfed] "social presence"
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[snarfed] 🤷
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aaronpk I do think "blog" has a lot of legacy connotations with it that don't contribute to understanding the current state of what your website is
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aaronpk actually, i've already been doing something tangential to this, which is when i submit a CFP for a conference, sometimes they have a field to enter your blog URL. in those cases, I've been entering https://aaronparecki.com/articles which contains only posts that you'd expect to see on a blog, but not my short notes or photo posts
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[snarfed] heh, different but related, I've been entering https://snarfed.org/resume into "LinkedIn URL" fields for many years
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aaronpk nice
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[Al_Abut]1 How about just “personal website”? Not being snarky, I’m serious.
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[Al_Abut]1 Or I guess it depends on the intended audience and conversational framing, like if you’re talking to normie civilians about social networks vs techhies and trying to differentiate from a static read-only island of content.
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[0x3b0b] I may end up doing a distantly related post myself, because part of what I noticed about the conversation is that my frame of reference, due to what I personally use, has expanded to include the idea that someone might treat their public profile and timeline like a blog...so the idea that someone responding to a federated blog post would be surprised to see their responses show up on that site _seems to me_ like being surprised that a reply to a post...
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[0x3b0b] ... on another instance would be visible to someone viewing the thread at that instance, and I'd lost sight of the fact that this might defy the expectations of someone who thinks of Mastodon as "weird twitter," and doesn't expect something to look like a blog and act like a twitter.
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[0x3b0b] At which point I guess I kind of excuse myself from the rest of the discussion, because that means I've kind of lost sight of what different expectations people have for "social media" versus "blog" and therefore what terminology might help...
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[tantek] [snarfed] naming is hard in that way, when you make names too abstract, they lose their connection to the underlying thing.
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[tantek] "social home" sounds like some sort of home console or AppleTV variant
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[tantek] and "social presence" sounds like, I have no idea, it could mean so many different things, none of them having anything to do with the web
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[snarfed] yup!
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[snarfed] all true
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[snarfed] I mildly worry that "web site" has some/much of the same baggage as "blog," but maybe not, who knows
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[tantek] [snarfed] the trick of a good phrase name like that is pairing something more abstract with something established and specific.
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[tantek] especially when the abstract thing seems to be different or otherwise contrasting from the specific thing
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[tantek] in this same way, "social reader" is a good name
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[tantek] because you can contrast it with existing specific known things, like "feed reader" or "RSS reader"
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[tantek] "social website" also directly evokes "social web" which many have noted is far more user-friendly than "fediverse"
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[tantek] aaronpk, https://aaronparecki.com/articles is quite clever and elegantly simple for pagination
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[tantek] I'm going to note that as inspiration for my own articles-specific page
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[0x3b0b] I'm trying to remember, but I may actually have referred to my "homeserver" (which, when spoken, could just as easily be two words) as if it encompassed the microblog that I host with it as often as I've referred to my "website" or "blog." On the other hand, I haven't talked about it much except with techies, and "home server" is probably not all that great a term either.
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[tantek] "home server" sounds like a web server you keep in a closet at home
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[tantek] which could also be a personal site, or maybe just a webserver for running things at your home
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[0x3b0b] Yeah, the fact that it's probably as likely to produce thoughts like "a computer he keeps in a closet for some purpose or other, maybe he uses that Plex thing I've heard about" or "does he mean a game server he plays on?" is part of why I don't think it's a great term. And if someone's familiar enough with Matrix, they'll hear it as one word and have no reason to think it would also involve a personal website, federated or otherwise.
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[0x3b0b] But when I've referred to it that way I think it's usually been in the context of troubleshooting the hosting for it taking up my time, so what it was for mattered less than "oh, he's been busy with computer-y stuff" unless they wanted to know more.
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[0x3b0b] Speaking of time it is two hours later than I thought it was, and I should go to bed
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[Niklas_Siefke] When I like my own post in mastodon and bridgy sent a webmention, how long does it take for http://webmention.io to pick that up? Is there a timeout or is it not receiving those because I liked my own post?
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r​eal_devastatia Sending a webmention sends an HTTP request to the recipient host, so it accept it in a few milliseconds. Whether webmention.io acts on it right away is another story.
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r​eal_devastatia [edit] Sending a webmention sends an HTTP request to the recipient host, so it should accept it in a few milliseconds. Whether webmention.io acts on it right away is another story.
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c​apjamesg +1
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c​apjamesg [snarfed] perhaps you have insights on the bridgy part?
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[snarfed] sure, [Niklas_Siefke] check out https://brid.gy/about#missing first, and if that doesn't answer it, feel free to post your Bridgy user page or web site here
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[Niklas_Siefke] Bridgy is fine. It sent the like to my site. But it never showed up in http://webmention.io. Someone else liked the post before and that showed up. So I am wondering if http://webmention.io maybe realised that it was myself and did not register it as a webmention
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[snarfed] nah, it wouldn't do that
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[snarfed] what's your web site? and which social network is this?
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://wordpress.org/news/2024/01/data-liberation-in-2024/ (from https://snarfed.org/2024-01-12_51883)
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[KevinMarks] Tom has written up the FB threads meeting http://plasticbag.org/archives/2024/01/how-threads-will-integrate-with-the-fediverse/
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[KevinMarks] “Effectively you can think of the existing Mastodon / Fediverse community as a pretty decently sized US city of people, with each server being a separate building within it. Meanwhile, Threads is an apparently friendly version of Godzilla, hundreds of times as tall as the nearest building wanting to say hi to people, but every time it makes a move, there’s a risk its tail will kill thousands.”
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] that's a #indieweb-dev also already shared that link in this channel also and pointed out it was already shared in #indieweb-dev). Please read scrollback lol https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2024-01-11#t1705016039662900 and https://chat.indieweb.org/2024-01-12#t1705018773650900
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[schmarty] gRegor++ for http://indiebookclub.biz ✨
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Loqi gRegor has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (85 in all channels)
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[aciccarello] Made me look into domains for a review aggregator. But `.reviews` sites are over $50 a year
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[aciccarello] There is also `.review`. Strange to see both singular and plural of the same word
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gRegor Did something come up about IBC recently or just random props? Either way, thanks :)
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c​apjamesg We have a bonus HWC tomorrow: https://events.indieweb.org/2024/01/galactic-bonus-homebrew-website-club-iaIBd0Y7B5Hy
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gRegor finest HWC in all the galaxy
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[snarfed] wrote up a first draft of a content moderation policy for Bridgy Fed: https://20240112t135126-dot-bridgy-federated.uc.r.appspot.com/docs#moderation-policy . I'd love to hear what you all think! esp since many of you are much smarter and more experienced at all this than me
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[snarfed] feel free to comment directly on the PR if you want, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/pull/785
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Loqi [preview] [snarfed] #785 first draft of content moderation policy
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c​apjamesg Has anyone reposted blog posts from a year or more in their main feed?
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c​apjamesg I was thinking about doing a series where it is all posts I wrote last year or the year before.
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[Al_Abut]1 Sort of? I’m almost ready to launch my blog this weekend (hopefully in time for galactic HWC tomorrow! :crossed_fingers:) and backfilled in about a dozen posts from when I was last active a few years ago.
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c​apjamesg Oooh, exciting!
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c​apjamesg I hope you can do a demo!
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[Al_Abut]1 Thanks! I’m stoked!
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[Al_Abut]1 Except I’ve got an ask as well - does anyone use Feedly? I’m hoping if somebody adds my feed to their list (http://alabut.com/rss.xml) then it’ll flush out the test one that I accidentally exposed earlier this week.
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c​apjamesg I don't but I'll sign up.
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c​apjamesg Oh apparently I have an account.
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c​apjamesg Done.
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[Al_Abut]1 Thank you so much! Last question - did you actually see entries with full content? Or did you see endless repeating rows of “testing excerpts for content inclusion” or some such.
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[Al_Abut]1 Make that “testing excerpts for more complicated layouts”
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[0x3b0b] My blog is AP-powered, so if I were going to do something like that - at least, without it being a revisit and rewrite in the lines of "here'
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[0x3b0b] s what I said last year and how my thoughts have changed" - I'd probably just be boosting my old posts.
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c​apjamesg I didn't see anything.
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c​apjamesg Weirdly.
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c​apjamesg Oh, I do now.
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c​apjamesg I see "Testing excerpts for more complicated layouts...".
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c​apjamesg Etc.
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[Al_Abut]1 Oh no
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[Al_Abut]1 Such a bummer, I worked so hard on that back porting too
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[Al_Abut]1 🤦‍♂️
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[Al_Abut]1 Whelp, I guess I’ll have to hope I never get popular with the Feedly crowd 😂
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c​apjamesg Maybe you could put your feed at a different URL?
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c​apjamesg I suspect Feedly might have a caching policy for existing feeds.
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[Al_Abut]1 Hmmm… I hadn’t thought of that, I just went with whatever Astro created by default.
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c​apjamesg Since 10k people could subscribe to the same feed and it doesn't make sense for Feedly to retrieve it 10k times.
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c​apjamesg If you change the URL they will have to retrieve the new one.
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c​apjamesg But if you do, redirect the old one to the new one.
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[Al_Abut]1 Yeah, makes sense. Also wonder if it’s a smart cache? As in looks to see if there’s any new items. Which means the solution is… write more!
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c​apjamesg Also, I am subscribed to your blog now!
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[tantek] [snarfed]++ for a content moderation policy! Will take a look
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Loqi [snarfed] has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (117 in all channels)
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[snarfed] thanks [tantek]!
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[snarfed] [Al_Abut] most people will probably subscribe to your site by just typing or pasting your home page or domain, eg http://alabut.com, as opposed to a specific feed URL. if you add a feed discovery link tag to your HTML, that should solve this
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[tantek] ^ exactly
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c​apjamesg Regarding ISSNs, the guidance conflicts.
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c​apjamesg > As an “ongoing integrating resource,” your website, database, wiki or blog can have an ISSN, under certain conditions.
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IWDiscord <c​apjamesg#0>
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c​apjamesg > Your ongoing integrating resource cannot obtain an ISSN if:
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c​apjamesg >
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c​apjamesg > it contains personal content: personal website, online personal diary, etc.
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c​apjamesg So a non-personal blog could have an ISSN?
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[Al_Abut]1 Thanks for the subscribe James! And for the tip on autodiscovery [snarfed], completely blanked on it. I now realize that using a static site generator means I’m learning a lot of the ins and outs of RSS much more manually than I initially intended.
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Loqi friendly reminder IWDiscord, [Al_Abut]1, it looks like this conversation is getting pretty technical (database, RSS, site generator, static site generator), can you take it to #indieweb-dev?
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[Al_Abut]1 (Oops)
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snarfed site-deaths << https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/12/24036539/artifact-shutting-down-kevin-systrom
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/12/24036539/artifact-shutting-down-kevin-systrom" to the "See Also" section of /site-deaths https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=92188&oldid=92155