#dev 2017-06-19

2017-06-19 UTC
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mblaney !tell eli_oat re: empty reader entries, you have your content in <p class="meta-data reply"> followed by an empty <div class="e-content p-name">. If you can combine the two (ie put all those classes on the same <p> or <div>) then things will work the way you want.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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eli_oat thanks mblaney
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mblaney no worries :-) personally I leave likes out of my feed, but of course everyone is free to do their own thing. I just don't see the difference between likes and reposts when the two are combined.
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eli_oat that makes sense
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eli_oat I've been toying with filtering them
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eli_oat generally speaking I like that using my website as a single point of truth as opposed to FB, or something, limits my response types. I use the likes for the self-serving purpose of not wanting to loose a certain link
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mblaney yes me too, but I have https://unicyclic.com/mal/likes (and the same for replies)
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mblaney actually, looking at that now, keeping a bit more context would be nice.
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eli_oat the direction I started to head in, but haven't completed yet, is to show everything by default, but have an optional filter for each type
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eli_oat as a stopgap measure I have pages specific for photos and titled posts
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (-26) "/* Make your user page */ link directly to Special:MyPage, simplify language" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (+16) "/* Write down your itches */ {{main|itches}}" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Good evening, indieweb. Interesting discussion today re: wikifying and onboarding
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sknebel good morning gRegorLove
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sknebel indeed
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gRegorLove I don't think I have much to add beyond: yes, be bold. mistakes can easily be fixed.
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gRegorLove Even if you don't know where something should go and start a new page, content can be merged and pages redirected
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gRegorLove Some of us enjoy cleanup/organizing tasks, for some weird reason
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gRegorLove o/ tantek
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (-16) "s/IndieWebCamp/IndieWeb/" (view diff)
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sknebel gRegorLove: since you do a lot of wiki gardening, I'd be interested in your thoughts on automating some of it. I got the basics to edit the wiki programmatically working, so if you have an idea for something useful, say something
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gregorlove.com edited /wikifying (-12) "tweak dfn "capturing information and ideas on the wiki"" (view diff)
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gRegorLove sknebel: Cool. Nothing offhand, but I'll keep it in mind
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gRegorLove What things are you planning to use it for currently?
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tantek o/ gRegorLove
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gRegorLove sknebel: Nevermind, found https://indieweb.org/User:Kaja.sknebel.net :)
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sknebel :)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page () "(-594) /* Homebrew Website Club */ update cities, remove past" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /h-card (+17) "fix long out of date confusing use of hCard vs h-card" (view diff)
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miklb.com edited /User:Miklb.com (+141) "/* Community projects */" (view diff)
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miklb.com edited /User:Miklb.com (-474) "/* Wants to work on */" (view diff)
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miklb.com edited /User:Miklb.com (-43) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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miklb.com edited /User:Miklb.com (+187) "/* Indie web setup */" (view diff)
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[miklb] so in the spirit of “can’t beat them, join them” I’m testing out using Chrome & an Atom extension to edit in my editor of choice. Also using pandoc to convert from markdown to mediawiki syntax.
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[sebsel] !tell aaronpk Seems like my multi-photo-checkin problem is actually a OwnYourSwarm bug, because your site does not have multiple photos either! https://aaronparecki.com/2017/06/18/35/ (because of the +10 coins I suspect you posted both pictures on Swarm at the time of checkin, right?)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] We were here two years ago when they were building this bar! — with anomalily https://aaronparecki.com/2017/06/18/35/photo.jpg
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aaronpk That's strange!
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Loqi aaronpk: sknebel left you a message 1 day, 17 hours ago: I wrote some notes about the automatic wiki login: https://indieweb.org/non-interactive_IndieAuth#implementation_in_Kaja
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[sebsel] Hm, and when someone else checks me in (you did, https://seblog.nl/2017/06/17/15) and I make that same checkin, tagging you, adding a picture, I get the picture, but not the text / tag!
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] pointercheck-in bij Café Krull, Amsterdam https://seblog.nl/thumbs/2017/168/15/699311_2pvdtstvilipebzuirzr3elgjs5nrzjx6etp4-zju0y-1000x750-blur.jpg
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[sebsel] goes to open github issues
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pfefferle good morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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strugee.net edited /personal_cloud (+50) "ArkOS is dead" (view diff)
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strugee.net edited /pgp (+187) "Link to article on PGP's bad UX and terrible crypto" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Virtual_HWC (+129) "/* mumble */ Add GuildBit free servers as an option" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Virtual_HWC (+1391) "More text like, less notebook like." (view diff)
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Zegnat sknebel, what do you think of doing pros/cons like that ^^^ ?
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Zegnat In response to yesterday I am trying to limit the amount of bullet lists we put everywhere
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aaronpk apparently needs to catch up on some discussions
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sknebel Zegnat: nicer to look at, but a lot more annoying to edit.
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Zegnat Yes. Editing we might be able to fix with a MediaWiki template though?
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Zegnat That seemed to be something that was OK. If we can establish a pattern (pro/con comparisons) make it a template for consistency and editability throughout the wiki.
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Zegnat I also considered side by side lists, possibly restyle the bullet point to a plus on one hand and a minus on the other. But that was more design work than this ?
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sknebel side by side is on https://indieweb.org/wiki/backup. templates AFAIK don't have a nice way of dealing with variable numbers of params, but if you figure one out ;)
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sknebel (also, the "cons" for discord doesn't make sense
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Zegnat Good catch, I mixed up the con and pro on that one!
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Zegnat Not sure I like the technical solution used by /wiki/backup
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Virtual_HWC (+0) "/* Discord */ Fixing pro/con swap." (view diff)
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Zegnat fixed, sknebel
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Zegnat Oh, wow, I got the history wrong, there was a different first one :o
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Virtual_HWC (+1) "Updating history." (view diff)
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Zegnat Turns out accurately reporting history is hard. Who would have guessed.
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: found a bug in the logs, the links for each line, are off by a day, ... https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-06-07#t1496881639625000 the links will be 06-08
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Loqi [aaronpk] do you see your token endpoint on this screen? https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-06-07-17-27-07.png
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather, the hash links are off
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, this is weird
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Zegnat hash should be correct and the canonical ID, however, display for you might go off depending on timezone, ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i was just figuring that out
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ben_thatmustbeme but if i give someone that link, unless the tz happens to be correct for them, it won't actually show the correct day
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Zegnat possibly this: https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues/27
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Loqi [aaronpk] #27 Realtime logs always show date in UTC
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ben_thatmustbeme not exactly
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ben_thatmustbeme but certainly related
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Zegnat Oh, no, this https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues/9
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Loqi [sknebel] #9 date/timezone mismatch when linking to chat lines
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Zegnat There are a few date/time related issues files
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Zegnat aaronpk, are any MediaWiki extensions enabled on indieweb.org? Wondering for complex templates, e.g. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Loops
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sknebel Zegnat: https://indieweb.org/mediawiki-customization there is this list of config details
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Zegnat That’s a no on complex templates then
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vanderven.se martijn created /User:Vanderven.se_martijn/sandbox (+127) "Create a sandbox to play in." (view diff)
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Zegnat sknebel: https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Vanderven.se_martijn/sandbox&action=edit
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sknebel hm
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Zegnat mirrors after /Template:one-day-event which allows location1, location2, location3, etc.
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Zegnat Thinking about adding a neutral argument too
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Zegnat Make it colspan="2"
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Zegnat Using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conditional_tables#Plan_C for doing the conditional table tows
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Zegnat s/tows/rows/
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Zegnat Oh, and what is pretty nice about template arguments is that order does not matter. So when you want to add a con or pro you can add it at the bottom. You will still need to find the correct number yourself though :(
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Virtual_HWC (-252) "/* Platforms */ Convert hard to manage wiki tables to easy to edit template." (view diff)
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aaronpk Here's the list of extensions installed: http://indieweb.org/Special:Version
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aaronpk the main problem right now is the wiki is an old version so it's hard to find plugins that work on it
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[miklb] aaronpk is there documentation anywhere on what is holding back upgrading the wiki?
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sknebel ah, the pubsubhubbub plugin falls among those. well, listening to Loqi it is
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aaronpk I thought so, but can't find it
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aaronpk basicaly upgrading old plugins
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aaronpk i have an updated copy on my laptop and it almost works but there are a couple bad bugs
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sknebel is there a plugin wishlist already?
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[miklb] seems worthy to add to the discussion for leader summit. Tantek made some comments about effort required for maintenance & upkeep, etc when discussing other options, I’m not sure the amount required for the wiki is really taken into account.
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[miklb] Is there a link to download a backup of the wiki content? I think it can be exported as xml?
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sknebel What is wiki backup?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/wiki/backup
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[miklb] thanks
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sknebel that's content only, no history
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sknebel I sync that to my server daily
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aaronpk Because there are no passwords I guess I could make the sql dump available
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ben_thatmustbeme goes to https://search.google.com/structured-data/testing-tool and sends feedback to request they support mf2 h-*
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ben_thatmustbeme worth a try
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miklb.com edited /User:Miklb.com (+280) "/* Itches */ new itch" (view diff)
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[miklb] OK, my anxiety in editing wiki is significantly reduced using Chrome/Atom. Even on a simple user page.
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Zegnat [miklb], do you think it will help if we hide more syntax behind easy templates, e.g. https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=37688&oldid=37682&rcid=37601 ?
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cweiske this makes it harder to edit the wiki because you have to look up the syntax of the templates
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cweiske pro1 and pro2 for example
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cweiske I'll never figure those out without docs
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Zegnat sure, but are you going to ask people to learn wiki table syntax instead, which might also require you to add extra styling? Or encourage HTML blobs?
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Zegnat People who currently feel some pages are too heavy to contribute to are not going to like that either, I imagine :/
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cweiske 1. wiki table syntax can be used in other situations as well, pros-cons not
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cweiske 2. styling should be in css, and only a single table class be defined
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Zegnat We don’t all have access to the CSS file on the wiki though
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tantek wow so much meta discussion
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tantek tries to catch up
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Zegnat If I ask someone to add a pro/con to that page now, I feel like it would instantly be clear to them what to edit.
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aaronpk I believe there is a mediawiki page to add CSS
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tantek aaronpk: per page
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Zegnat But of course, this is just something I thought I would add coming out of yesterday’s conversation. We’ll see if it sticks.
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cweiske https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgUseSiteCss
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ben_thatmustbeme and thats why #indieweb-meta was suggested, haha
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: lol
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tantek zegnat, tables don't work for pros/cons like that because tables assert a relationship among the things in the same row
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cweiske page name MediaWiki:Common.css
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tantek better would be just two side by side lists
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tantek Zegnat: re: https://indieweb.org/Virtual_HWC
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Zegnat Yes, I mentioned that as a possible option
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/MediaWiki:Vector.css
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tantek basically, tables are the wrong semantic for it
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tantek or rather, you're using tables for layout :p
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cweiske was right in the 90s already
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tantek you could do two width:50% float ULs
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tantek cweiske++ :)
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Loqi cweiske has 13 karma in this channel (101 overall)
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Zegnat tantek: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-06-19/1497876459689000
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Loqi [Zegnat] I also considered side by side lists, possibly restyle the bullet point to a plus on one hand and a minus on the other. But that was more design work than this ?
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Zegnat Although if I add a scope="col", do tables still assume row-semantics?
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Zegnat I am more interested in the syntax for the template for now, as that is to address editability. We can change the output HTML at any point and that would update all pros/cons lists
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tantek Zegnat, doesn't matter, the table "gridding" still makes it appear as if things in the same row have some common meaning
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tantek templates are really only helpful (to efficiency) for things that you do A LOT (like new events)
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tantek for tiny little building blocks like that, there is little advantage, and as cweiske pointed out (I think), it becomes one more syntax to have to learn
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aaronpk And citations! I like that one
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tantek one more barrier
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[miklb] aaronpk that link to the vector css doesn’t show me anything, including an edit tab.
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cweiske I also don't have an edit button there
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aaronpk oh maybe there's a permission thing
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tantek aaronpk, yeah I see a Create button
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tantek only content I see is: /* CSS placed here will affect users of the Vector skin */
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Zegnat I think this is less learning. My argument is that, if we want to encourage people to edit pages who do not like working with wiki syntax, it is easier to ask them “add your pros/cons to this page” where they can instantly add a pro=this or con=that to the list than asking them to edit other wiki syntax
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tantek hopes this is just a temporary resurgence otherwise we may actually need an #indieweb-meta channel
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[miklb] Zegnat, right now I’m working on just feeling more comfortable in the editor, and will use pandoc to convert to mediawiki if I feel the need to have a lot of formatting
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tantek Zegnat, it's not less learning. it's very special case learning (pro= con= syntax) for a very special use case
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Zegnat [miklb], sure, but I don’t think “we can encourage them to use pandoc” is a valid solution to the issues raised yesterday
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tantek that does not scale - that is, if you add custom templates for every special use case then you have a big mess of things to learn
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[miklb] Zegnat, no, but it may help me get more comfortable with mw formatting.
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tantek in the old days we used to ask people to demonstrate things that they thought it was worth switching to, first on their own site
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[miklb] baby steps ?
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tantek whether design, prose, formats, etc.
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tantek we have more one person come along and insist they could redesign the whole wiki for us with much better design. and we asked, great, show us an example of your great design on your own website.
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tantek and they didn't, of course
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Zegnat I can hardly demonstrate a wiki syntax on my own site though
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tantek but somehow they felt they could make great design on the wiki, but not on their own site
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tantek cue skepticism, naturally
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tantek Zegnat, why not? you could make wiki pages on your own site
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[miklb] Zegnat, fwiw, I’m using the online pandoc converter for now http://pandoc.org/try/
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Zegnat I can not reimplement MediaWiki template syntax, that is just silly. Neither does running an entire MediaWiki instance make any sense. Instead I tested this out on a Sandbox page under my user page on IndieWeb and converted a single “real” page to see if the syntax could stick. I feel that is a perfectly valid process.
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[miklb] agreed
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tantek Zegnat, yes, that's the reasonable compromise for the case of mediawiki. using your own sandbox in your user page
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tantek what is a wiki page
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Loqi A wiki page is a type of web page that many in the IndieWebCamp community either want to or already host on their own personal site https://indieweb.org/wiki-page
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tantek I meant more the concept in general ^^^
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Zegnat And I do run a wiki (wiki.zegnat.net) where I do document new things (e.g. my pronoun microformats research). That wiki is Markdown based though, so syntax doesn’t cary over to IndieWeb.
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tantek Zegnat, add it to https://indieweb.org/wiki-page#IndieWeb_Examples !
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Zegnat What I am wondering specifically is if people like miklb, eddie, and chrisaldrich who voiced concerns about doing wiki edits would feel like things would be easier if we had more templates abstracting things (like pros and cons).
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Zegnat I already trust you all, cweiske, tantek, to be able to modify wiki tables and wrangle headings to your hearts content ;)
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tantek Zegnats, templates do not help new users in practice. they help power users who have to do lots of repetitive things
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tantek checkout wikipedia templates for examples
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Zegnat Why do you think a self-explanatory list of pro= and con= would not help people who do not know wiki syntax? Citation?
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tantek Zegnat, that claim of "self-explanatory" attributes by name was tried with XML
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tantek and pretty much dramatically failed
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cweiske so I have a new page, or an existing page and want to add a pro-con section
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tantek just like this example, people made up custom XML tags/attributes for each special use-case.
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cweiske 1. I need to know that we have a pros-cons template
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tantek and no one could remember more than 1-2
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tantek in practice only RSS / Atom remain
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tantek I'll cweiske explain also :)
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cweiske 2. I need to remember its syntax, so I have to look up the template
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[miklb] how did this devolve into XML discussion?
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tantek miklb, pro=, con= look like random XML attributes
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cweiske Zegnat, it's no problem when I just have to extend an existing pros-cons template because I have an example right in front of me
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cweiske but that's the same for a pros-cons-wikitable
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tantek and the larger problem of assuming "simple" "self-explanatory" formats for special cases actually work in practice
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cweiske so it's the same level of easiness for extending an existing list, but harder for creating new ones
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tantek good explanation cweiske
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[miklb] one thing I did see kinda work with a mediawiki instance was tagging (?) a page “incoming” if you weren’t sure where it went and if was formatted correctly and that was added to a special page for wiki gardeners
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tantek miklb that's an interesting suggestion
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Zegnat Alright, I’ll revert the template then
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Zegnat I was addressing not the issue at all of creating new pages (where other people who do know about templates will probably do gardening anyway) but the usecase we constantly run into: we ask someone to add a vote or statement they made in chat to the wiki, and they don’t because they do not instantly recognise how to make it fit in.
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aaronpk Well that gives me an idea
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tantek Zegnat, not much simpler you can get than a "* list item"
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tantek adding more punctuation (templates) does not make it easier
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Zegnat Yes, but one of the feedbacks yesterday was that we had way too many lists for someone who came in to read :p
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Zegnat Table might not have been right, but the template would have allowed me to easily style pro/con lists in a specific way
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aaronpk What if it was similar to how github un-wiki-d their markdown checklists
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tantek Zegnat - that makes no sense. you took a complaint about reading and came up with a writing solution?
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tantek also, if a 1 dimensional list is hard, making it 2 dimensional (a table) where one of the dimensions is purely presentational, is unlikely to help
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Zegnat Combination. I got rid of both bulletpoints followed by a - or + (which was there originally) to hopefully help reading, and the output is generated by a template to hopefully encourage edits
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cweiske you don't have to scroll so much to see both pros and cons
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Zegnat The output does not have to be a table. Just styled in some way to make it clear. Side-by-side is normal for pros and cons.
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cweiske the + and - would get us rid of the pro/con headings
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tantek Zegnat did you do any design research into effective pro/con lists before making up new designs?
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tantek cweiske, yes, the side-by-side lists makes sense for compactness of reading. The row relations do not make sense.
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Zegnat Side-by-side matches almost every pro/con list I have ever seen. Google seems to agree, haha, https://www.google.se/search?q=pro+con+lists&tbm=isch
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Loqi ahaha
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Zegnat I was just playing with tables, so I ended up using a table. I am not at all sold on using a table.
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cweiske you're defining the design already by including "lists" in your search query :)
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Zegnat how would you call this design pattern if not list?
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cweiske is just trolling around
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sknebel what is POSSE?
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Loqi POSSE is an abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, a content publishing model that starts with posting content on your own domain first, then syndicating out copies to 3rd party services with permashortlinks back to the original on your site https://indieweb.org/POSSE
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tantek.com edited /wiki-page (+153) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ update urls for caseorganic, note dates that it was at a subpath /wiki with archive org link and used to support IndieAuth login" (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat for now at least add your own wiki ^^^
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Zegnat Will do tantek, am a bit distracted at the moment
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tantek just saying, it's less meta :)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /wiki-page (+334) "/* IndieWeb Partials */ Add Martijn." (view diff)
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Zegnat Added
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tantek woohoo! up to 3 people with personal wikis!
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tantek what is a personal wiki?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "personal wiki" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Loqi ?
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tantek personal wiki is /wiki-page
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /personal_wiki (+22) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Zegnat tantek: turns out <style> tags are disabled on the wiki, so that’s not going to fly
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tantek or we could enable them
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www.svenknebel.de edited /User:Www.svenknebel.de/testspace (+53) "test <style> with <raw> /cc Zegnat" (view diff)
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Zegnat did not know about <raw>
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Zegnat More testing coming up! Hehe
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sknebel I only knew about it because I saw it in the plugin list earler
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sknebel *earlier
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aaronpk Raw doesn't work quite right yet. That's another thing that should be easier with a new wiki version
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Zegnat It also wont allow for whitespace in the CSS, apparently, which will get old really quick: https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/sandbox
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Zegnat brb, dinner
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aaronpk Zegnat: yeah that's something I think is fixed in a newer version
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tantek this most recent flare-up of md vs mw syntax is incentivizing me to work more on my md fork
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aaronpk Why will that solve the problem?
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aaronpk I don't really have a strong opinion on which is better, the only reason I would see to use anything other than MW is because github popularized their markdown so more people are familiar with it
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tantek aaronpk, my goal is provide something so much simpler / more readable than md that it will actually work just as plain text, and be even more popular
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tantek so it'll make the md vs mw syntax debate moot, since it'll look so clean in comparison to the ugly punctuation of both mw and md
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tantek the "more people are familiar with it" is a small-sample dev-specific bias you are seeing
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tantek maybe more gen 1 people. but not gen 2 or later, many more of which are more likely to have edited mw (Wikipedia) than md
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tantek if you wanted to reinforce gen 1 dominance, then you would require using md
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tantek also, "github popularized" is a seductive trap with a hard ceiling
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eli_oat what is gen 1?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "gen 1" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[miklb] uber but for text markup
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tantek what is generations
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Loqi Generations in the context of the indieweb refer to clusters of potential IndieWeb adopters in a series of waves that are expected to naturally adopt the indieweb for themselves and then help inform the next generation https://indieweb.org/generations
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eli_oat thanks tantek
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loqi.me created /time_zone_of_the_irc_channel (+16) "prompted by sketchess and dfn added by ben_thatmustbeme" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk https://indieauth.com/faq seems to indicate you must own your own domain name, doesn't it allow subdirs?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat It allows subdirs, else I wouldn’t have been able to ever login to the wiki ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i figured it did, it was a bit more retorical
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Zegnat Gotcha
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sknebel a very basic little password/TOTP auth endpoint as a single php file or so might be a neat thing to build
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Zegnat Ooh, I might have to have that as project :o Would be nice to get away from needing access to my email client when I login to the wiki
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www.svenknebel.de edited /User:Www.svenknebel.de (+109) "/* long-term Itches/random ideas */ easy auth_endpoint" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme sknebel: that would be cool
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ben_thatmustbeme i'd be up for getting that working
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Zegnat I have too many projects waiting for me now. Too many for IWS :/
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather, helping
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tantek Zegnat welcome to the club :D
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, yeah
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Loqi rofl
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ben_thatmustbeme i have my entire site to finish getting working, i have an mf2 - > jf2 feed converter i want to write, a websub implementation i want to write
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ben_thatmustbeme and those last two to hopefully tie together
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ben_thatmustbeme was thinking about this last night, create a service that will convert h-feed to jf2 feed, and also support websub with it... but not only as a publisher, but as a consumer as well, so if the original supports websub, it will push updates to the JF2 Feed version as well
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tantek sknebel: note that at the top of https://indieweb.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain is "Getting Started"
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ben_thatmustbeme which would mean you could subscribe to any h-feed that supports websub via jf2 feed, whithout the publisher ever knowing about jf2
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tantek sknebel: which itself is linked from the sidebar "Get Started"
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tantek that's reasonably findable
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tantek though I see Getting Started got a bit abstract up front (again) and could be simplified (again)
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tantek I wonder if a quick copy-editing session at IWS would be useful
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tantek maybe even just for leaders summit
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sknebel IWS would probably be better, get a set of less-involved eyes in if possible?
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tantek sknebel - even involved eyes are fine, there's plenty of fundamental copy-editing that can be done on the wiki that is super obvious
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[kevinmarks] I have a wiki but I don't use it
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[kevinmarks] Ben, that sounds like a better version of my mf2 to jf2 converter
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ben_thatmustbeme [kevinmarks]: i have one as well, but yeah, i am thinking it would be a lot more useful
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ben_thatmustbeme sknebel: thoughts on how you would store the password in such a single page app? just config file?
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Zegnat It is probably meant for a single website, and for storing a single password config file should be fine.
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Zegnat A lot easier to set-up than some in-memory-only environment variable ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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sknebel yeah, hash in config file or variable at the top of the source
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Zegnat Does it need to be a hash in that case? (honest question)
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sknebel hash protects you against accidentially leaking the file
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ben_thatmustbeme looking to make it as simple as possible, so long as the page can generate the hash and say "enter this into your config file" it should be fine
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sknebel yes
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sknebel (for TOTP you have to keep the clear secret around if I remember right, but always hash passwords)
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ben_thatmustbeme sets up https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth
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Loqi [Inklings-io] selfauth: self-hosted auth_endpoint using simple login mechanism
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Zegnat Yes, that secret will be clear
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ben_thatmustbeme who wants write access?
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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Zegnat You can lift the TOTP from https://github.com/Zegnat/wiki.zegnat.net ;)
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Loqi [Zegnat] wiki.zegnat.net
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sknebel can't promise much, but I'll at least review and test
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sknebel (not all that good at writing PHP, and no idea what good PHP looks like)
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sebsel I've done some indieauth for my website, I can see if that's portable
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ben_thatmustbeme the biggest challenge is where to write things to... you will need to temp store data
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ben_thatmustbeme generally thats a bit tricky to make easy for everyone
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ben_thatmustbeme you need to store a code somewhere though
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sknebel for basic login signed tokens might be enough? (aaronpk?)
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Zegnat I’d wager that should be enough.
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Zegnat goes read some of the specs
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gregorlove.com edited /pgp (+402) "/* Articles */ author h-cards, archive urls" (view diff)
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sebsel what about a php-file with <?php die() ?> above? :P
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sebsel I mean in order for the whole thing to work you need php...
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gRegorLove Re: reading the wiki, I don't think lists in themselves are a problem, but some of the typography and whitespace in the (quite old) MediaWiki version we're running. Newer MW and Vector skins will help. I've made some tweaks in my user CSS that I think make it better (interim solution): https://gregorlove.com/2016/06/i-am-tinkering-with-the/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] I am tinkering with the user-customized CSS for the indiewebcamp.com wiki and thought I would share. My custom CSS is here. You can edit yours by going to “My Preferences”, clicking “Appearance”, then clicking “Custom CSS” beside the Ve...
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gRegorLove I think I've tweaked the link colors since then. Let me check and update.
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gRegorLove https://indieweb.org/User:Gregorlove.com/vector.css
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sknebel sebsel: I'd hope basically all hosting supports hiding files via .htaccess or similar nowadays, but it is an interesting hack
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Zegnat Interesting, I’ll have to have a look gRegorLove :)
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Zegnat I just added some + and - signs for pros and cons, e.g. https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/sandbox
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sknebel Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 13 karma in this channel (69 overall)
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sebsel sknebel Yeah, but that would require an edit in an extra file. The <?php die() ?> thing could be managed from the single file. You still need read/write rights tho.
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Zegnat Hmm, can you write to a file within a PHAR? I wonder if that would be a solution, just have a single PHAR that people can include that handles everything internally
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Zegnat hasn’t worked with PHAR much
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 24 (twitter.com/_/status/876890625530056710)
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aaronpk Hello
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 23 minutes ago: https://indieauth.com/faq seems to indicate you must own your own domain name, doesn't it allow subdirs?
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aaronpk i think that was written before anyone was trying to use subdomains
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aaronpk feel free to file an issue so I don't forget to update it
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aaronpk .
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aaronpk auth codes are a great use for signed tokens
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aaronpk the main limitation with signed tokens is being able to revoke them but that's not an issue with auth codes because they are supposed to have a very short lifespan anyway
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aaronpk I would definitely recommend that over trying to find a place to store the data. The only trick is you'll need to create a secret for it in the config file
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sknebel thx for confirming
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sknebel and good night everybody, I'll try to get some sleep now!
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2017 (+169) "/* Participating */ Link to Mozilla Community Participation Guidelines, tantek brought it up in chat" (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 14 karma in this channel (70 overall)
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strugee.net edited /User:Strugee.net (+149) "Mention lazymention" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017/Leaders (+224) "/* Schedule */ lunch/free time, other leaders related activities" (view diff)
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tantek goes back in the archives looking for introductions at a recent indie web summit
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tantek looks like the most recent documented introductions session was at IWC MIT2 2016
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tantek https://indieweb.org/2016/MIT2/Introductions
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tantek.com edited /2017/Schedule (+198) "explicit introduction and housekeeping before keynotes, do intros and demos before lunch so people meet each other" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2017/Introduction (+1081) "draft from /2016/MIT2 with a bunch edited out" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017/Introduction (+3) "IWS" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /code-of-conduct (+65) "/* Signed */ signin'" (view diff)
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