#dev 2018-06-06

2018-06-06 UTC
chimo, snarfed, [jgmac1106], eli_oat, tantek, [kevinmarks], renem and tantek_ joined the channel
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tantek_ snarfed, looking into the 400 error messages (from Bridgy Publish to Github), I'm now not convinced that https://help.github.com/articles/restricting-access-to-your-organization-s-data/ is a useful place to link people - it feels too abstract
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tantek_ and frankly starts with the wrong framing for what someone would need to fix the error!
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tantek_ "Restricting access to your organization's data" ?!? sounds like the wrong page to be on to "help make Bridgy Publish work with a particular repo"
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tantek_ here's a couple of (I think better) options (there may be more
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tantek_ )
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tantek_ 1. Hey publisher, please follow instructions at https://help.github.com/articles/requesting-organization-approval-for-oauth-apps/ to request permission from "org" for the OAuth App "Bridgy"
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tantek_ and then ask someone at "org" to follow the instructions on https://help.github.com/articles/approving-oauth-apps-for-your-organization/ to review and grant access for Bridgy
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tantek_ 2. Create a new page on the IndieWeb wiki with the instructions in (1) and then link to that URL instead of https://help.github.com/articles/restricting-access-to-your-organization-s-data/
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tantek_ ...
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tantek_ and that (first have of 1.) doesn't work if you're not a member of the organization.
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tantek_ sigh
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tantek_ so insertion to 1., parenthetical after OAuth App "Bridgy"
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tantek_ (you need to be a member of "org" in order to request permission. if you're not a member, contact an owner of "org" and ask them to invite you to the "org")
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tantek_ which is stopgap at best
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tantek_ the problem is, why should you have to be a member of every org your want to file an issue or make a comment on?
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tantek_ this (approval process for Bridgy Publish for Github) seems to be far too much work for the *common* case of commenting / filing an issue on a repo on an org that you are not a member of
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tantek_ I mean, yes we should document the current state
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tantek_ but what I'm saying is whatever API we are using that is forcing Bridgy Publish to have to jump through these hoops forcibly creates a bad UX
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tantek_ thus Bridgy Publish should fallback to or perhaps instead call whatever API that silo.pub is using
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tantek_ though I suppose that is the issue that snarfed asked me to file on Bridgy so this is the reasoning ^^^ and I'll try to capture that in the issue itself. in the meanwhile, Bridgy Publish to Github is going to be limited usefulness for folks who want to start actually owning their issues and comments.
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tantek_ (I'm running into these roadblocks with just a few "simple" repos / orgs I seem to be interacting with)
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tantek_ til then, manual POSSE it is for repos in those orgs :/
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jay.funabashi.co.uk edited /inari (+113) (view diff)
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ancarda So I'm reading through IndieMark Level 2 so I can improve my website. I don't really understand how https://indieweb.org/webactions works? What `<indie-action>` does. There's an example on tantek's website here: http://tantek.com/2014/175/t1/pdf14-why-need-indieweb-video-slides -- the Like/Repost/Reply buttons just open Twitter. What would they do if my browser understood (via a plugin) how to handle `<indie-action>`?
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gRegorLove ancarda, I think they're intended to work with /indie-config. The Twitter links are the fallbacks, but ideally someone would be able to open a reply interface on their own site or own micropub client based on the webaction
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 1 day, 16 hours ago: What do (features on your website) do you want to finish / launch / start using *before* IWS? Can you add to your entry in https://indieweb.org/2018/Guest_Book ? See mine for example: "Working: for IWS 2018(link)"
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gRegorLove and/or, if at some point browsers handled such links natively. I haven't looked at those two in a while, but that's my recollection.
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[cleverdevil] Huzzah! I got my serverless location tracking service working 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Overland -> Lambda -> S3
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snarfed [cleverdevil]++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 28 karma in this channel (89 overall)
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[cleverdevil] On a nightly basis, I have a scheduled Lambda that uses Athena to run SQL against the data, and generate a daily rollup and store that in S3.
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[cleverdevil] Its all accessible through an HTTP API
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[cleverdevil] Now, I need to actually *do* something with it.
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ancarda gRegorLove: Thanks, that makes sense. My general workflow for IndieWeb has been to write up posts, commit+push, and then have my server pull them down so they are visible. This works as I have a flat file structure for my blog. I might have to also allow my server write+commit+push if it's producing files for, e.g. likes
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ancarda A browser extension would be nice if you could just right-click any page and hit "Bookmark" and have that fire off a request to your site to publish a bookmark page, send a WebMention, and also archive it for you
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gRegorLove Omnibear can do the first part
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gRegorLove What is Omnibear?
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Loqi Omnibear is a browser extension for posting text notes, replies, and likes to your website using Micropub https://indieweb.org/Omnibear
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ancarda Oh cool, I'll have to check that out
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schmarty Hmm. The more I built out micropub-powered sites the more I feel the pain of handling things like fetching reply context data on the server (endpoint) side of things.
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schmarty And although the Micropub spec suggests against nested objects in favor of URLs I keep thinking of cases where a client that can send nested h-cite info would allow the micropub server and site rendering to be simpler.
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schmarty Having the url-to-reply-context step on the micropub client would also allow users to preview (and potentially alter them) before posting.
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sknebel would it be easier to fetch the details in the client?
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schmarty E.g. the way Facebook allows you to select the representative image for a link on a post
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schmarty sknebel: I think the clients might be a better “domain knowledge” place for some kinds of sharing
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schmarty E.g. I want to track my listens with listen-of posts. That kind of client would be a reasonable place to have the logic for taking a URL from overcast.fm and extracting the useful episode info.
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sknebel ah. yes, such specific cases probably do make sense to handle client-side
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schmarty It feels reasonable to me but I also feel like it is directly against the advice of the Micropub spec.
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tantek whoa scrollback
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tantek schmarty: I agree with "Having the url-to-reply-context step on the micropub client would also allow users to preview"
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tantek schmarty, e.g. this is on my working on specifically: https://indieweb.org/Falcon#improve_replies_details
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tantek schmarty you can make a similar argument about letting a client handle syndication (POSSE) also, and then update a post with u-syndication URLs accordingly
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schmarty tantek: i find reply-context preview is a powerful feature! I really like it on Quill’s note interface, for example. But Quill doesn’t pass any of that preview information to the Micropub endpoint, so it’s only a faithful preview if my server can get/generate the same info
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schmarty tantek: I am actually working on a Micropub client to handle syndication 😳
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schmarty Using Micropub queries to fetch mp-syndicate-to properties, do the syndication, and Micropub update to add syndication properties (and remove the mp-syndicate-to)
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[schmarty] tantek: your replies details itch sounds very close to the UX i am thinking of.
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tantek schmarty: hack day project at IWS!
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[schmarty] maybe even a pre-IWS project!
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tantek maybe! It's #2 on my https://indieweb.org/Falcon#For_IWS_2018
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[schmarty] ah, nice! i need to spend some time writing down all my fragmented projects and project ideas and pick some pre-IWS and IWS focus.
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tantek you have less than 3 weeks!
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[schmarty] totally isn't panicking. 😬
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tantek same same 😬
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snarfed noticeable impact on bridgy's load from turning off facebook backfeed: https://snarfed.org/bridgy_load_fb_backfeed.png
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ That’s just webmentions. There isn’t a difference between the #IndieWeb http://micro.blog community and the #IndieWeb #WordPress community. I am using Bridgy to syndicate my replies to your Tweets from my blogs and your replies are showing up as… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3290-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1004423659530915841)
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tantek interesting post from the W3C # social channel re: alternatives to GitHub https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/the_single_most_important_criteria_when_replacing_Github/
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tantek in particular: "Consider all the data that's used to provide the value-added features on top of git. Issue tracking, wikis, notes in commits, lists of forks, pull requests, access controls, hooks, other configuration, etc."
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/s/41pG7Hz7Mi.png
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tantek (I disagree with "is it in a git repo" but that's just plumbing)
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[cleverdevil] Now, I've got current status information including WiFi connectivity, location, motion (walking, driving, stationary, etc.), and battery state on cleverdevil.io
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tantek this is why it makes sense to get indieweb /issue posts, /reacji /reply to issues, etc. work well
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: do you actually infer walking vs driving vs stationary? or just location, orientation, maybe velocity?
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[cleverdevil] Its actually passed via Overland, so you'll have to ask [aaronpk] how it figures it out.
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snarfed ah cool. maybe probably esri
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sknebel I believe that's something iOS figures out: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coremotion/cmmotionactivity
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sknebel (probably considering accelerometer etc too?)
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jeremycherfas !tell [cleverdevil] "Truffle" scented oil is an abomination.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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aaronpk yeah it's just part of iOS
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aaronpk Overland doesn't actually do much fancy stuff itself, it's mostly a wrapper around the iOS APIs
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aaronpk that's pretty cute [cleverdevil]!
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tantek_ Issue re: federating issues (how meta I realize) https://github.com/git-federation/gitpub/issues/11
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tantek_ guess I should try to federate a thumbs up of it
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Loqi [yookoala] #11 Federated issue tracking
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[cleverdevil] I just finished a map overlay using Apple's new MapKitJS
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[cleverdevil] Thanks, [aaronpk]!
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[cleverdevil] Still very much a WIP.
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[grantcodes] How are you guys storing that location / personal data? In a separate database? I currently convert mine to microformats and store it with all my regular site content
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[grantcodes] But does mean 99.9% percent of my content is these automatic tracking posts
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sknebel [grantcodes]: [cleverdevil] told a bit about it yesterday: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-06-04#t1528128414692200
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Loqi [[cleverdevil]] For now, it just blindly stores each "location" in the array as a separate JSON file in S3.
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sknebel and I guess aaronpk uses https://github.com/aaronpk/Compass
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Loqi [aaronpk] Compass: Compass is a GPS tracking server that stores data in flat files.
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aaronpk yea, which stores each location update as a one-line JSON string (GeoJSON format), one file per day
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[cleverdevil] I am using S3 to store the data.
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sknebel hm... I thought we had a page about this....
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[cleverdevil] I was originally storing one object per location point, but it was insanely slow.
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sknebel what is location tracking?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "location tracking" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "location tracking is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] Now, I store things in batches as they're delivered by Overland.
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[cleverdevil] Then, I use Amazon Athena to run SQL queries against the data, with a scheduled daily rollup.
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aaronpk I arrived at my data format after several years of doing this, and haven't changed the format in like 3 years now, so i'm pretty happy with it
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aaronpk i'm hoping to do a blog post probably next month with all sorts of details on this
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aaronpk it'll be my 10 year anniversary of tracking my location
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sknebel !tell ancarda want to document your person cards on https://indieweb.org/hovercard ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[grantcodes] Cool, kinda surprised I've not run into any issues with mongodb yet! Seems to handle it no problem for now, but maybe would make sense to store it elsewhere.
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[grantcodes] Although I do like that it is still the same format as everything else on my site
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aaronpk I have about 1gb/year of these JSON files, and at most 1 record per second, so I definitely don't want them in the same place as the rest of my content :)
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[grantcodes] Ha I think mine is a bit smaller than that
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[grantcodes] How do you query that then? Or do you just use the most recent one?
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aaronpk I pretty much only query by date, so I built a simple query API into Compass
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aaronpk since all the files are essentially sharded by date, it's really quick to find records
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/Compass#reading
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Loqi [aaronpk] Compass: Compass is a GPS tracking server that stores data in flat files.
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[grantcodes] Ah ok so it stores all coordinates from a "trip" in one file. I just store the locations on their own
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aaronpk no, it doesn't store per trip
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aaronpk it stores one location record per line
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[grantcodes] I like the ability to generate a map for an entire year though. Not that I've ever managed to do it well...
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[grantcodes] Oh sorry, I was just looking at the response
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aaronpk the response is given a date range query
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aaronpk that's how my site queries the full list to generate the trip maps
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aaronpk hm I thought I documented that storage format somewhere
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[grantcodes] Hmm well I'll need to think about doing something smarter with my data at some point...
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tantek__ sigh. this "OAuth App access restrictions" "feature" of GitHub has made OAuth even harder to use beyond per provider registration shenanigans
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snarfed #hugacls
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tantek is that a channel, hashtag, or some other reference?
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tantek snarfed, if ACLs were the issue, then I wouldn't be able to post with GitHub's web UI either
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tantek that is, if it was just about ACLs, then given one way (web UI) for me to post to a repo / comment / react etc., then I would be able to use any other client to do so
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tantek either I'm on the ACL or not
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aaronpk Wait so there's a difference between what you can do via the web and what an all can do via the api?
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tantek yes
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snarfed eh, different acl. github is distinguishing between you interactively vs bridgy
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tantek this is why this is such a mess
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aaronpk That sounds like a permissions bug
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tantek and totally broken design by github
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tantek snarfed, no, no different than using a different Twitter app to post to Twitter
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snarfed eh no, the security concern is valid. you've given me, the bridgy developer, an access token to let me act as you
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snarfed yup, which is a similar concern. twitter just chose not to distinguish
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tantek because making that distinction is bad UX
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snarfed but there is a meaningful difference, and it's reasonable for github to care more about the security concern
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snarfed from an enterprise security distinction, it can absolutely matter. UX vs security tradeoff, and sometimes UX loses
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tantek nah, still doesn't make sense. I can use any git client I like to do git operations with github
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tantek so same should be true with filing issues, comments, reactions
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snarfed that's a local program that doesn't share your creds with someone else
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tantek which are far *less* of a big deal than a pull request / commit etc.
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snarfed i can literally grab your token stored in bridgy and go do anything you can do on github right now
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tantek how can they tell what is "local"?
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tantek i could be running a git client from a server
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tantek which is exactly what people do with static sites that deploy from github
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aaronpk There's no OAuth API to push commits is why
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snarfed git and github apis totally are different protocols, with different acls
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snarfed git protocol doesn't let you eg *administer* anything inside github
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aaronpk You can't give snarfed permission to push code unles you actually give him your ssh key
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tantek snarfed, you can't "go do anything" obviously becauase I can't with that token!
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snarfed right, *because they thought of this* and prevented it
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snarfed which is inconvenient, but reasonable
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tantek or rather if that was true then Bridgy could post as me anywhere I could
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snarfed again, because they deliberately distinguish :P
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tantek it's a really bad limitation
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tantek which again encourages cookie based apps instead
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snarfed UX wise yes. security wise, totally reasonable. tradeoffs.
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tantek which is less secure than OAuth
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aaronpk I understand this distinction for private repos in orgs but for public stuff the restriction seems unnecessary
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tantek right, should not exist for public repos regardless of org
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tantek that's broken
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snarfed sure, agreed there
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tantek so basically I have to go ask every repo's org that I want to post an issue/comment/reaction to to 1. add me to the org, 2. I have to request Bridgy App Oauth permissions, 3. they have to approve Bridgy
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tantek massive pain and makes it far too high friciton to make any Github Oath App actually useful
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snarfed or just continue to posse to those orgs manually :/
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sknebel I wonder if there were problems with automated spam/harassment through the API?
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tantek I don't think they thought this through, or they dont' care about making Github Oauth Apps actually useful
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sknebel although then it'd be weird that it only applies to orgs...
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tantek sknebel: no then you just shut down the spammy account and revert
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tantek no matter what app you use, there's still an account that every post is *from*
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snarfed commenting and reacting from arbitrary users outside the org is a narrow slice functionality :P
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snarfed but i absolutely get that it's biting you here
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tantek not in open source
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snarfed true!
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aaronpk I think this is part of the larger trend of losing the concept of open APIs
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tantek interactions from people outside the org is a sign of open source *health*
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snarfed well, and again, via third party apps, which is the exception
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tantek and should be strongly desired by any open source project
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snarfed but yes
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tantek so instead yes I have to be the canary and go ask to be made a member of every single org just so I can request Bridgy permissions
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aaronpk Companies are less interested in Open APIs for the sake of Open APIs and more interested in specific use cases that drive their business
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tantek hopefully this means the *next* person attempting to post to one of those orgs doesn't have to go get permission for Bridgy
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snarfed it still strikes me as odd (and maybe just a github bug) that silo.pub can do this, presumably with a different API
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snarfed i'd happily switch to that API, but i have to expect they may eventually just fix that bug (if it is)
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sknebel heh. might be that you've been the first person to build a client-like thing (vs automation tools) using the new API?
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tantek nah they've made the sale to MSFT, no incentive to change something like that
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tantek new owners might eventually, but unlikely for at least 6 months if not years
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tantek I expect the API that silo.pub is using will keep working
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tantek I bet there's plenty of legacy tools / toolchains that depend on it
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tantek and they'll break lots of people if they do
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tantek including paying customers
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snarfed ongoing work at github won't stop for 6 mos to years. if they're discovering and fixing bugs now, they'll continue to
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snarfed eh. we're making all kinds of speculation and assumptions here
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tantek that's not my experience with post acquisition companies
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tantek usually there's a period of deep breaths and slacking
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snarfed it is mine :P
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snarfed oh sure, slowdown, but not stopping everything entirely
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tantek massive slowdown
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tantek as people consider exit dates, then minimum risk / energy necessary to reach those exit dates
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snarfed anyway. i'm happy to switch to another API, if someone else can point me to which one
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snarfed well, at least, if it's v3
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aaronpk Pretty sure silo.pub uses v3
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snarfed so we've definitely confirmed that silo.pub can do the exact same thing that bridgy is failing on right now?
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aaronpk What exactly?
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aaronpk I can go try the API wth my access token
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tantek aaronpk yes when I tried to reply to your comment
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tantek literally on the same issue
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tantek you succeeded with silo.pub POSSE
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tantek and I failed with Bridgy Publish POSSE
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tantek https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/04/6/gitea-indieauth
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] What we really need is federated authentication, but that doesn't exist yet. This sounds like a great use case for IndieAuth. w3.org/TR/indieauth IndieAuth is an OAuth 2.0 extension, which avoids the centralized problems with existing OAuth soluti...
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snarfed cool. aaronpk if you can confirm silo.pub uses v3, i'll switch bridgy to use that
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aaronpk Okay so I should try to comment on an issue in someone else's org?
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snarfed nah sounds like you all already confirmed the functionality, i just meant checking the code for which api :P
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aaronpk oh yeah if it was demonstrated in that issue then yea. one sec
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aaronpk https://github.com/kylewm/silo.pub/blob/master/silopub/github.py#L166
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aaronpk and https://github.com/kylewm/silo.pub/blob/master/silopub/github.py#L184
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aaronpk looks like v3 https://developer.github.com/v3/issues/comments/#create-a-comment
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snarfed thanks!
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aaronpk hm, seeing some people posting new issues on indieauth.com today... thinking I might need to add a notice to that repo that it's going to be deprecated
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tantek__ Mozfest call for sessions! https://twitter.com/mozilla/status/1003738668333436928
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@mozilla Coders, activists, educators, meme historians: #mozfest is a chance to supercharge your latest project and research. Plan and ponder alongside like-minded individuals from around the world. Submit your session ideas now: https://mzl.la/1UmFbaI https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De3-_7pWsAIdx78.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1003738668333436928)
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loqi.me created /MozFest (+230) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /MozFest (+1) "linkify ('x is y. <url>.' pattern)" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /MozFest (+116) "tantek__ added "https://mozillafestival.org/proposals - Call for proposals (deadline for submissions 2018-08-01)" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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ancarda sknebel: I would although maybe once I’ve cleaned up the code a bit and also added support for non-IndieWeb sites. I added some notes here: https://github.com/ancarda/website/issues/24
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Loqi ancarda: sknebel left you a message 1 hour, 40 minutes ago: want to document your person cards on https://indieweb.org/hovercard ?
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Loqi [ancarda] #24 Hover Cards for all URLs
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ancarda I’m going to see if there’s any way I can cleanup the code and separate it from my website enough that it could be packaged up into a library
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ancarda But yeah I’ll add it tomorrow. It’s just not so visible given it only works on 1 post. I haven’t linked to very many sites or written that many posts
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/now
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[cleverdevil] \o/
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aaronpk niiice
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aaronpk oh man, the wifi symbol isa good idea
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aaronpk I forgot overland sends that
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[cleverdevil] I just changed it so it uses the hybrid satellite map by default.
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[cleverdevil] MapKitJS is pretty great.
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[cleverdevil] Unfortunately, Known includes too old of a version of font-awesome to have a good icon for walking 😛
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[kevinmarks] Good card layout discussion here for hovercards https://inclusive-components.design/cards/
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[grantcodes] [cleverdevil] Nice!
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[grantcodes] I need to fix my equivalent of that sort of page 😛
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[cleverdevil] One day, I'll add something where I can browse through my travel over time, since I have all of the data.
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[grantcodes] That is another use case for micropub querying... Someone could make an app of some sort to query your endpoint for locations and display it as a map, then no need for everyone to program their own
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[cleverdevil] Good point.
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[kevinmarks] Can't you use N svg walking icon?
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[cleverdevil] Sure, it just would have been nice to use a bundled one 🙂
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[kevinmarks] 🚶 Is an option
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[grantcodes] Also emoji: 🚶 🏃 🚗 📶
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[kevinmarks] Heh
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[grantcodes] [kevinmarks] beat me
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I thought about that too 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Just out of the style of the site.
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[kevinmarks] The trains here are so slow, Google Fit thinks I'm cycling.
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[grantcodes] Any recommendations what I should call my mf2 editor component thing? I am thinking it'll just be mf2-editor
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[grantcodes] Also what properties should it support by default? The list is pretty extensive
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[kevinmarks] That is a bit tricky - mf2 allows arbitrary properties. You may want to pick useful defaults per h- type
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tantek_ pretty sure we have emoji for most post types in /posts
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[grantcodes] Yeah, leaving that as extendable
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[grantcodes] The defaults I currently have are: published, name, summary, content (html or plaintext), like-of, bookmark-of, repost-of, in-reply-to, featured, photo, audio, video, location, mp-slug, visibility, post-status & mp-syndicate-to
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[grantcodes] Think that covers the vast majority of things.
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KartikPrabhu I don't recall visibility being a mf2 property
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KartikPrabhu or "post-status"
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KartikPrabhu these seem more like micropub things
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[grantcodes] Yes they are more micropub things: /Micropub-extensions#New_Properties
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KartikPrabhu so it is a micropub post editor not a mf2 editor
eli_oat joined the channel
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[grantcodes] Yeah pretty much, but the idea is it doesn't actually post anything. So is that micropub?