#dev 2018-09-08

2018-09-08 UTC
benwerd, renem, eli_oat, KevinMarks and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] I’m thinking about setting up something similar to https://changemap.co/hellocode/exist/ for Indigenous, but that’s powered by IndieWeb technologies.
#
[eddie] There are essentially 3 functions that seem to need to happen. A user should be able to post a suggestion, vote for a suggestion and comment on a suggestion
#
[eddie] Essentially I think adding a suggestion would be a reply/syndication link to the roadmap homepage.
#
[eddie] Voting for a suggestion would be sending a like to the permalink of a suggestion
#
[eddie] And a comment would be a reply to a permalink
#
[eddie] Seems like that’s all it would take. The rest would be on my administration of the suggestions by grouping them into categories on the backend
#
[eddie] Anyone have any thoughts on that?
KevinMarks and benwerd joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas !tell Eddie one of the things I like about the Exist roadmap is that it emails me updates. When traffic is low, that makes it easy to keep up.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
KevinMarks_, barpthewire and Nicu joined the channel
#
lukasrosenstock.net edited /RSS/silo_examples (+0) "/* Instagram */ Fixed broken RSS URL" (view diff)
KevinMarks and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] jeremycherfas: I just noticed that. That’s a cool feature. I was thinking about that. Email could definitely be a subscribe option. I’m also thinking you could have the stream of updates on a suggestion be an h-feed and link to RSS and JSON Feed, so you could get updates in a reader
#
Loqi [eddie]: jeremycherfas left you a message 5 hours, 23 minutes ago: one of the things I like about the Exist roadmap is that it emails me updates. When traffic is low, that makes it easy to keep up.
swentel and [kim_landwehr] joined the channel
#
[kim_landwehr] What is Exist?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Exist" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Exist is ____", a sentence describing the term)
swentel and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
sknebel [kim_landwehr]: I'd guess he was talking about https://exist.io/
[eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] Exist is a service that tracks and analyzes your life by pulling in information from various APIs and builds correlations to help you understand yourself better.
#
[eddie] Exist << https://exist.io
#
Loqi Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "Exist" or similar
#
[eddie] Loqi!
#
[eddie] What is Exist?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Exist" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Exist is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
[eddie] Exist is a service that tracks and analyzes your life by pulling in information from various APIs and builds correlations to help you understand yourself better.
#
Loqi ok
#
loqi.me created /Exist (+188) "prompted by [eddie] and dfn added by [eddie]" (view diff)
#
[eddie] Exist << https://exist.io
#
Loqi ok, I added "https://exist.io" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Exist https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=51545&oldid=51544
#
loqi.me edited /Exist (+36) "[eddie] added "https://exist.io" to "See Also"" (view diff)
#
@gradar #frontend Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://bit.ly/2Cz9i2z (twitter.com/_/status/1038450418450407424)
#
jmac I'm faced with how my webmention processor should handle this case: <a href="http://example.com/blah" class="u-in-reply-to">...</a> ... <a href="http://example.com/blah" class="u-repost">...</a>
#
Zegnat If you are example.com/blah, you accept the mention
#
jmac If queried about what kind of wm it is, would it be better to say "It's both a reply and a repost", or is it OK to say "Its markup is wonky, soooo let's just say it's a reply" ?
#
Zegnat Post Type Discovery says it is just a repost: https://www.w3.org/TR/post-type-discovery/#algorithm
#
jmac ah
#
Zegnat Though I am now wondering if that is right.
#
jmac Thank you, I'm not sure I knew about the Post Type Discovery algo.
#
Zegnat If it also contains the in-reply-to, chances are it isn’t just a 100% share and will also contain some notes from the other party. So I am not sure if in-reply-to shouldn’t outrank repost-of
#
Zegnat If you are seeing this in the wild, you are actually best suited to answer that question: in this actual example, do you think it is a repost or reply?
#
jmac But it sounds like a post is generally only one thing, which is my main concern
#
jmac And not potentially a whole list of things
#
Zegnat Under Post Type Discovery, posts are treated as one thing, yes
#
jmac No, not seeing it in the wild just yet. I'm fixing a bug in my processor's type detection, and the possibility of this confusion occurred to me.
#
jmac (Before today, my Web::Mention module would check the entire h-entry in the wm source doc for e.g. an "in-reply-to" property, and mark the mention as a reply if it found one anywhere. Spot the bug!)
#
Zegnat Ah. Alright. Well, generally we expect repost-of posts to be duplications in their entirety (no added value) like a retweet.
#
Zegnat So seeing them together with in-reply-to should be rare
#
jmac Yep. I'd certainly consider it erroneous markup and wondered how to most gracefully handle it, and I think the PTD algorithm answers that tidily. Thanks!
#
KartikPrabhu I save them as both "reply" and "repost" then decide which one when I am displaying them. So I don't lose any info if I change the display later
#
Zegnat I don't have my webmention endpoint make those decisions either. It only makes sure it was a valid mention and stores it.
#
KartikPrabhu right. I think it is better to have those things separated
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
jmac Yeah... this is for library code so it doesn't care about display either, and it'd be simpler if it just picked one.
#
jmac I'm interested to see that Post Type Discovery lists RSVP as a post type, but not quotation. (My current list of types, which I assembled naively by myself months ago, is: reply, like, repost, quotation, mention)
#
jmac Obviously I should add RSVP support, but maybe I'm wrong in having quotations there too
[kim_landwehr] joined the channel
#
[kim_landwehr] thanks [eddie]
[Niklas] joined the channel
#
jmac Do I read Post Type Discovery correctly that if an webmention's source doc's h-entry contains a valid rsvp property anywhere inside it, then the webmention is an RSVP, no matter what else might in in the source?
#
Zegnat Yes
#
jeremycherfas Quotation is one that has always puzzled me, because for me it is always either part of a reply or of a bookmark. I’m not sure how I would do a quotation without a URL going to the source, which I suppose could be a <cite>
#
jmac Completely separate question: Anyone wanna volunteer to help code review my Web::Mention library work? (Requires tolerance for seeing raw Perl code.)
#
jmac All my wm library work so far has been just me, but it's probably far enough along now that it could definitely benefit from double-checking
#
Zegnat knows 0 perl.
#
Zegnat Maybe petermolnar?
#
jmac Mainly looking for someone to sign off on future patches (e.g. the bugfix I'd like to publish this weekend), versus grokking the whole mess currently there
KevinMarks, [jgmac1106], pstuifzand and singpolyma joined the channel
#
Zegnat Talking of OPMLs: miklb, [jgmac1106], anyone, know of any sort of standard definition for feed reader export OPMLs?
#
miklb I'm not. I once looked into how I might sync multiple OPML files in a GitHub repo and after a couple of hours reading I decided it was a hill I wasn't prepared to die on.
#
jmac Could a kind soul please double-check that this is a valid minimal RSVP document? (This is input for an automated test.) https://pastebin.com/2PF201Px
#
Zegnat jmac, most of the time, the event URL will be the in-reply-to. See the example here: https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_RSVP_with_HTML
#
Zegnat miklb, guess I’ll just do what pstuifzand did, grab all the URLs and not care about any nesting (which may or may not be categories / folders)
#
jmac Zegnat: makes sense
#
Zegnat You should also be able to use that to see that the RSVP is actually aimed at you.
#
Zegnat Theoretically you could be a URL that just happened to be mentioned on the same page, and not the target of the RSVP
#
Loqi I agree
#
jmac Okay... so IF the source doc has an in-reply-to property associated with a URL that I, the webmention receiver, care about, AND the doc has a valid-value "rsvp" property anywhere inside it, THEN I must treat the webmention as an RSVP. Right?
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
Zegnat That sounds right
#
jmac Whew! Okay
#
Zegnat [kevinmarks], my main question with OPML is whether readers have standardised on some way of handling things like folders / tags / etc.
#
Zegnat If you have any code that does that, I would be interested in seeing it
leg and singpolyma joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] mine just maintained the nesting in the original, it didn't try to normalize it
#
[kevinmarks] but microsub doesn't have nesting afaik
#
miklb closest to that would be channels?
barpthewire joined the channel
#
jmac Just for fun, if anyone wants to review my patch to add RSVP support and improve post type discovery to my Perl Webmention library, I've put up a pull request while I wander out to lunch. https://github.com/jmacdotorg/webmention-perl/pull/2/
snarfed joined the channel
#
swentel snarfed, commented out those .htaccess rules, stupid me :/
#
snarfed swentel: np!
#
swentel will try again to see if something happens .. :)
#
miklb hey snarfed I have a really weird thing happening with replies and WP and bridgy where if I put the permalink in the preview box, it parses correctly, but if I do a micropub reply it doesn't. Any suggestions on how to track that down?
#
miklb meaning, the micropub reply and syndication doesn't go through as a reply on Twitter, but if I take that same permalink and put it in the preview, it does show it as a Twitter reply
#
snarfed miklb: huh, odd indeed
#
snarfed have you looked at the logs?
#
miklb looking at the last test and it shows in-reply-to h-cite with a u-url to the original tweet. I deleted the tweet last night since it didn't make any sense out of context of being a reply
#
miklb I deleted the failed reply, not the original
#
snarfed hmm i wonder if it isn't handling composite in-reply-to right (as opposed to plain string url)
#
[kevinmarks] yes, I mean that I don't think that you can have channels inside channels in microsub
#
snarfed miklb: odd, i don't see your previews on https://brid.gy/twitter/miklb#publishes
#
miklb see my previews?
#
miklb this was the micropub reply that didn't come in as a reply on Twitter https://miklb.com/blog/2018/09/08/4394/
#
Loqi [Michael Bishop] I’ve not heard one mention of this the rest of the day.
#
miklb I don't know if the link I share for the brid.gy log for that is public https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1536380275&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyTgsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiJ2h0dHBzOi8vbWlrbGIuY29tL2Jsb2cvMjAxOC8wOS8wOC80Mzk0LwwLEgdQdWJsaXNoGICAgICAgIAKDA
#
snarfed yeah log links and contents are all public, everything sensitive gets redacted
#
miklb 👍
#
snarfed ah ok. the one attempt at that i see in the "Published" list on your user page is that preview. i don't see a real attempt
#
snarfed (the parsing is the same for preview vs real publish afaik)
#
miklb I deleted the Tweet it generated
#
miklb as it was out of context to the tweet it was replying to
#
miklb without
#
snarfed sorry, i meant, i don't see the real attempt on your bridgy user page
#
miklb but if I generate the reply in teh WP admin, it works. That's the other weird part of the equation. Only via micropub does this happen
#
snarfed ah ok. i wonder if the post is only half rendered when micropub pings bridgy, and it doesn't have the u-in-reply-to yet, or something
#
sknebel I think we saw that a while back when miklb first encountered this
#
sknebel (unless you changed something since then?)
#
miklb well, I've been tweaking the markup for the reply to make sure it wasn't something in the parsing, but now I've narrowed it down to micropub replies only. But I had just updated my template when I tested last.
#
sknebel https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-09-03#t1536010996525800
#
Loqi [sknebel] what's weird is that the bridgy log doesn't show it even having the property in the parser result
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
miklb so wanted to confirm wasn't something I was missing in the mf2 before tracked it down on the WP side.
#
snarfed sknebel: which log? i'm seeing the real publish attempts for that post in my server side logs, but oddly not on miklb's user page
[Niklas] joined the channel
#
sknebel snarfed: that was a few days ago, so the log for what I refer to in that quote isnt there any more
#
snarfed ah ok
#
sknebel but it didn't have the reply-to markup miklb's page had at that point
#
sknebel pointing me towards something with WP not rendering it at that point
#
snarfed right, same on the current real publish attempts today and yesterday for https://miklb.com/blog/2018/09/08/4394/ , bridgy saw no in-reply-to
#
Loqi [Michael Bishop] I’ve not heard one mention of this the rest of the day.
#
miklb if it would help I can do another micropub reply and not delete anything
#
miklb but if syndication links are hooking into pre_micropub that might be the problem?
#
snarfed ah i see it only shows the latest attempt per post. i'll find the older links
#
miklb goes and looks at the code
#
snarfed miklb: in this case it's not synd links, it
#
snarfed ...'s the in-reply-to link
#
miklb right, but if WP is trying to send the micropub syndicate-to before micropub is done rendering the post?
#
snarfed ahhh i see, yes
#
snarfed cc GWG
#
miklb I think GWG is still catching up from being 1/2 across the world for a month.
#
snarfed heh yeah. ok finally got it. here's a log of a real attempt from yesterday. no in-reply-to. https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1536380155&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyTgsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiJ2h0dHBzOi8vbWlrbGIuY29tL2Jsb2cvMjAxOC8wOS8wOC80Mzk0LwwLEgdQdWJsaXNoGICAgICAgIAKDA
#
miklb so this touches micropub, post-kinds, bridgy-publish and webmention plugins. needle.haystack
#
snarfed heh
snarfed joined the channel
#
miklb ok, thanks for confirming that's what the problem is. That helps a lot
snarfed joined the channel
#
miklb I'm just going to work back from where syndicate-to gets called in `micropub_query` and go from there
snarfed and Amgine_ joined the channel
#
sknebel theory: post kinds hooks into "after_micropub" (https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/blob/7bafae86ca066aaf206d2ff3f5a4e729469e0366/includes/class-kind-plugins.php#L12 )
#
sknebel but syndication is executed before that hook is triggered: https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-micropub/blob/bbb6d0f5391165e13caaae164b8756484821f521/includes/class-micropub-endpoint.php#L295
#
sknebel miklb: maybe try swapping the two in the second link and try if that is enough?
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
miklb I'm not sure that syndication is same as syndicate-to is it?
KevinMarks and sknebel_ joined the channel
#
miklb hmm, maybe
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
sknebel_ it seems to register for that: https://github.com/dshanske/bridgy-publish/blob/master/includes/class-bridgy-postmeta.php#L19
#
grant.codes edited /payment (+441) "/* payment page examples */ Add pay.grant.codes example" (view diff)
#
sknebel_ (sorry, my IRC setup is suddenly failing)
#
miklb I lost connection for a minute myself I think
#
miklb I just swapped the `after_micropub` with the `micropub_syndication` actions and am about to test
#
miklb swapped the order
Amgine joined the channel
#
miklb no effect
Kaja, KevinMarks, Zegnat and sknebel joined the channel
#
sknebel note to self: do not kill random iptables entries you do not understand what they're for... occasionally you had a reason for adding them
snarfed joined the channel
#
sknebel miklb: hm, then I don't have any obvious ideas for a solution :/ hopefully one of the WP experts has an idea based on what we found
snarfed joined the channel
#
miklb but now I'm seeing notices from webmention and semantic linkbacks plugins. 🤦‍♂️
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
miklb actually, now that I think about it, switching the order surfaced those errors. That might be worth further investigation.
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
miklb unrelated :-/
KartikPrabhu, snarfed and TripFandango joined the channel
#
miklb I can see I need to be more comfortable testing micropub locally
#
miklb at last have a set of handy snippets I can use with shpub and my local site
KevinMarks, strugee_ and [keithjgrant] joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] Well, I shipped omnibear 1.2.0, but I forgot to re-run npm install after I switched machines, so I shipped it with a higher version of micropub-helper than I intended
#
[keithjgrant] I'm not sure what that will mean for the WordPress interop...
#
miklb I personally wasn't able to auth with Omnibear 1.1 or 1.2 with the master of all the plugins
#
[keithjgrant] Has anyone tested with the current stable versions?
#
miklb I haven't. I've been trying to iron the bugs out the 2.0 beta
#
[keithjgrant] I'll do some Network traffic inspection and see if it's still sending the cookies
#
miklb we see the same error with other micorpub clients like OYG, which works for me so not sure the exact source of it
#
miklb maybe it was ownyourswarm
#
miklb maybe even Quill
#
[keithjgrant] Well, fewer unique errors sounds like a bit of forward progress
#
miklb sure
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
miklb hmm. might be coincidence but my error with Omnibear 403s getting the syndicate-to and that reply issue is related to syndicate-to
Amgine and KevinMarks joined the channel