#dev 2020-09-17

2020-09-17 UTC
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[tantek] thefolksatbridgy++ 😂
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Loqi thefolksatbridgy has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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mayakate[m] Well, all right, I'm back with a brid.gy question, then...
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mayakate[m] I do a fair amount of posting via PESOS I've hooked up to a link aggregator. I use in-reply-to to indicate the link that the post is About, because if that person had webmentions up, the text is typically written in such a manner that threading would be appropriate
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mayakate[m] However, it seems that if I have an in-reply-to link that links to something that isn't on twitter, brid.gy understandably doesn't find anything to reply to -- but doesn't post it as a standalone tweet. Is there a way I should be sending these differently to indicate it's not necessary to try to find a tweet?
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GWG https://github.com/swentel/indigenous-android/issues/404
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Loqi [dshanske] #404 Feature Request: Instant Upload
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mayakate[m] Actually, I've realized this is sort of a manifestation of my question about the proper handling of indieweb replies that I'd asked [before](https://twitter.com/kixiQu/status/1285385119591620608).
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@kixiQu is there #indieweb consensus on treating an h-entry with an u-in-reply-to link as a quick linkblog thing? how do you indicate a longer response is, well, in reply to something? (twitter.com/_/status/1285385119591620608)
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mayakate[m] * Actually, I've realized this is sort of a manifestation of my question about the proper handling of indieweb replies that I'd asked [before](https://twitter.com/kixiQu/status/1285385119591620608). [2](https://twitter.com/kixiQu/status/1285396102888341504)
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@kixiQu is there #indieweb consensus on treating an h-entry with an u-in-reply-to link as a quick linkblog thing? how do you indicate a longer response is, well, in reply to something? (twitter.com/_/status/1285385119591620608)
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[chrisaldrich] mayakate[m] I'm not 100% sure I understand your issue, and perhaps some example links would help. If you send a webmention without any mark up most systems will not interpret it as anything and thus treat it simply as a vanilla "mention", which might work best for what I think you're looking for. If you use `u-bookmark-of` it'll be a bookmark and have the flavor of a bookmark or linkblog. If you use in-reply-to, then systems will show it
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[chrisaldrich] as a comment or reply.
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[chrisaldrich] what is post type discovery?
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Loqi Post Type Discovery specifies an algorithm for consuming code to determine the type of a post by its content properties and their values rather than an explicit “post type” property, thus better matched to modern post creation UIs that allow combining text, media, etc in a variety of ways without burdening users with any notion of what kind of post they are creating https://indieweb.org/post-type-discovery
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[chrisaldrich] ^^ page may give you more ideas about how things would be interpreted, but each system may be slightly different based on how they choose to show things on their site.
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[chrisaldrich] As an example, I often post /read posts of articles within my "linkblog". Some systems recognize and display them as reads, while others that don't handle them display them as either bookmars or simple mentions (something like: "Chris mentioned this post on example.com").
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[chrisaldrich] I'll also mention that in the past I have manually changed the display type of others' mentions on my website. Someone may have bookmarked an article with a useful comment, so I may change it from displaying as a bookmark (I may have subsection under posts with a bookmarks heading and a facepile of those who've bookmarked it), to displaying it as a reply and show the comment. There's some flexibility in the whole thing so that each site
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[chrisaldrich] can make some reasonable display choices by default, but still display what they like.)
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@JamieTanna ↩️ If you go the personal website route (which I'd recommend) there's https://brid.gy which let's you tweet from your website so you can still reach your following, as well as ie via RSS (https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/09/ogur6/) (twitter.com/_/status/1306495693796843520)
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petermolnar https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/openring - is anyone using this? Seems like an interesting approach; if I understand it correctly, it fetches articles (links, titles, exceprts) from rss feeds and inserts them into pages as read more from others.
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[James_Gallaghe] I’ve seen that resource a few times. I’ve thought about adding something into my site like openring but it would add too much time to my build.
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aaronpk i kinda like that idea
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aaronpk i could add that pretty quick by pulling content from an Aperture channel
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GWG Thinking about q=source and media endpoints in Quill. Wondering about a 'picker' that shows the last 5 photos uploaded to optionally select over always including the last photo.
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GWG Bigger question of how a media endpoint can act like a media library
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aaronpk i like it
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sknebel yeah, I played with the idea of a history query too
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sknebel but don't think I put any of it live in the end
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sknebel ah right, found some notes. I tried something where the site runs the "picker", but thats not great for native clients
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mayakate[m] <[chrisaldrich] "maya kate I'm not 100% sure I un"> Here's an example: https://maya.land/responses/2020/09/09/iframe-based-quotation-ux-pattern.html It links to http://subpixel.space/entries/open-transclude/ . Now, if subpixel.space supported webmentions, I would *think* the link should be "in-reply-to" since that's the appropriate thing semantically. However, since there is no equivalent tweet to reply to, sending
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mayakate[m] a webmention to https://brid.gy/publish/twitter to create a tweet on the linked Twitter account will *fail.* My desired behavior there would be to fall back to posting it as an independent post rather than a reply. However, it seems that this hinges on how you look at "replies".
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mayakate[m] Does including a "u-in-reply-to" link necessarily subordinate the content of my post to the intended relationship between it and the linked post? [this](https://maya.land/responses/2020/09/13/re-webmentiond.html), for example, doesn't make much sense as independent content, *only* as threaded discussion.
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aaronpk i don't understand what i'm looking at even without even getting to webmention
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aaronpk why does the title of your post link to someone else's post?
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mayakate[m] because for link-bloggy type replies, that seemed to be the layout that made sense, cf. https://maya.land/responses/2020/08/19/bmj-honey-may-be-effective-in-symptom-relief.html
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Loqi [Maya] bmj: honey may be effective in symptom relief for coughs and such 🔗
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aaronpk maybe it's just me but looking at that page i 100% would not think this is a linkblog-like reply
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mayakate[m] tbh, I think any layout weirdness is a red herring
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aaronpk not really, since protocol stuff should always be driven by UX
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mayakate[m] what I mean is, it's fine for that to be something wrong that I need to fix
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mayakate[m] but that's distinct from what I'm asking about
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mayakate[m] which is what the guidance is on the dividing line with webmention types between linking to the bmj study with a comment
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mayakate[m] and something like https://maya.land/responses/2020/07/20/anil-dash-covid.html where I write something longer
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Loqi [Maya] on Anil Dash on the american death cult https://maya.land/assets/me.gif
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mayakate[m] and where in either case, the post is meaningful independently of the intended webmention-recipient seeing it
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mayakate[m] as opposed to the "re: webmentiond" linked earlier
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aaronpk whatt is a linkblog?
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[snarfed] mayakate: re bridgy and syndicating replies to twitter…sorry for the inconvenience! this comes up regularly, and it’s actually deliberate product design on bridgy’s part. background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/527#issuecomment-158535263
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aaronpk what is a linkblog?
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indieweb.org/linkblog
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Loqi [snarfed] good question! at a higher level, i'm reluctant to add much (any) more sophistication or fine grained control to bridgy publish. i love that it saves you and other people from having to implement each of the silo APIs yourselves, and that you like i...
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aaronpk so the general consensus there is that linkblog posts are not replies, they would use bookmark-of
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[snarfed] basically, your use case comes up occasionally, but what happens much more often is that people _do_ intend to reply to a tweet, but get the link or markup wrong. if bridgy blithely posted that as an original tweet, they’d be unpleasantly surprised. that’s why bridgy enforces this safeguard
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aaronpk and that would solve your bridgy publish issue
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mayakate[m] so then the guidance seems like only use "in-reply-to" when you actually think the target can receive a webmention somehow? that's a totally valid answer, I'm not asking for bridgy to change, just to understand the ambiguity outside of bridgy on what seems to be a common understanding of what "reply" means
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aaronpk no, in-reply-to exists separate from webmention
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aaronpk what is a reply?
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Loqi A reply (or comment) is a kind of post that is a text (typically, though photos are possible too) response to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indieweb.org/reply
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aaronpk does that not match your definition of reply? it seems like it helps disambiguate the situation you're talking about nicely
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aaronpk reply = thing that does not stand on its own, bookmark = your linkblog posts
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mayakate[m] I guess I may just have misinterpreted https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/5015301a-b83a-42d0-ae44-558c4a6d20d4
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Loqi [Jacky Alciné] Nothing’s stopping you! What makes a reply a “reply” is mentioned at https://indieweb.org/reply with a section on markup. You could make it “invisible” by making it a link with no text (any IndieWeb site should recognize that and rank it ov...
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mayakate[m] It sounds like overall, the idea of a "reply" is more to facilitate comment threads-type UX than threading for "blog A responds to blog B's post on blog C's post about...."
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mayakate[m] (Sorry if this is still wrong, I just am not seeming to find the distinction in the wiki on reply or post-type-discovery)
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aaronpk a... blog chain? :D
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aaronpk kidding
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aaronpk but "blog A responds to blog B's post on blog C's post about...." sounds like just blog posts mentioning blog posts
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aaronpk "reply" is pretty narrowly defined in that wiki definition so i'm not sure what else to add
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mayakate[m] FWIW I read "makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post" as covering the "don't start here, read this first" aspect of a blog response. 🤷‍♀️ Language is hard. Thanks everybody for responses! "bookmark" doesn't feel right to me so I think I'll just default to unclassed links for now.
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aaronpk yeah, no obligation to use bookmark. a webmention receiver might show it as just a "mention" if it can't find any microformats markup, which is fine, and sounds mostly accurate in this case too
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@anthilemoon ↩️ Short story short... Nocode: • Public @RoamResearch database • @NotionHQ now has bi-directional links • @TiddlyWiki with some plugins Code: • @jekyllrb • @GatsbyJS • @eleven_ty Conversations: • http://webmention.io + http://webmention.app • @hypothes_is (twitter.com/_/status/1306666363885248512)
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@plerudulier anthilemoon: Short story short... Nocode: • Public @RoamResearch database • @NotionHQ now has bi-directional links • @TiddlyWiki with some plugins Code: • @jekyllrb • @GatsbyJS • @eleven_ty Conversations: • http://webmention.io + http://webmention.app • @hypot… (twitter.com/_/status/1306696957616848902)
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