LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "perpetual beta" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "perpetual beta is ____", a sentence describing the term)
@kevinmarks↩️ It's an iterative thing. If you host your own theme we can fork that and mf2-ify it, then the outbound webmentions work better, then we add inbound ones (twitter.com/_/status/1503900918932291586)
capjamesg[d]Seirdy What is your domain name? It crawls a list of indieweb.org wiki users but the list hasn't been updated in a while. I can add your domain to the crawl queue manually for now.
capjamesg[d][James_Van_Dyne] Would you be able to investigate why our docstrings are not being generated too? One of the PRs we worked on should have fixed this but we're still getting the same issue where the autofunction generator does not work.
[tantek]big difference is test suites are for making sure technical spec/plumbing features work, whereas IndieMarks is about making sure user-visible features work
[tantek]we have an 'areas' focus already in the axes: https://indieweb.org/IndieMark#draft_axes and I'm now considering some sort of hybrid, like maybe we see if we can agree on only Level 0 and Level 1 (because new folks tend to want/need linear guidance like that), and then introduce the areas for folks to explore what they want to choose to improve
[tantek]we don't have a Level 0 right now but we kind of need one to handle all the "do you have a blog? great you're already on the IndieWeb" type chatter that often comes up in various places (Twitter etc.)
[tantek]everything in Level 1 is quite foundational and frankly connects very strongly to participating in this community at all (e.g. being able to use your domain to sign in to the wiki) so that I'd like to keep, also because I'm willing to bet nearly everyone here in #indieweb-dev absolutely has Level 1 fully satisfied: https://indieweb.org/IndieMark#Level_1
[tantek]It's Level 2 and further where I see a lot more divergence in what folks want to focus on or have or not have on their sites, so that's where it may make more sense to switch to an axes way of describing improvements.
[tantek]GWG, right. The reason permalinks are in L1 and not L0 is so folks who "just" have a "squarespace" that they setup with their own domain e.g. a portfolio site can still be considered "on the indieweb". IndieWeb doesn't mean you have to blog, more that if you do blog, you should own your contents & links accordingly
sknebelthe counter-example of "here but not L1" that always comes up is zegnat's massive h-card, which doesnt have other content. I guess his wiki kind of counts, but its quite separate (and not sure if online right now)
[tantek]sknebel, do you mean you want some way of classifying Zegnat's massive h-card as another "level 1" option, or do you mean it's a good example of a level 0?
[tantek]We can leave portfolio / single-page homepage sites at Level 0 until we get a complaint from someone here who has one who wants to do more but doesn't want to blog 🙂
[chrisaldrich] and Christian_Olivie joined the channel
jan6if you're going reformatting to axes or something, I hope you'd still keep the relative importance points, in some form, they're quite useful to see what's worth prioritizing (although maybe slightly rework, so that it's not 0.1 points for basically everything)
Seirdyand I don't think POSSE makes sense for every scenario. I have two "personas": "Rohan" (real name, professional) and Seirdy (online alias, casual). My IndieWeb site sits somewhere between them, but in most chatrooms and on the Fediverse I'm 100% Seirdy.
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "destinations" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "destinations is ____", a sentence describing the term)
sknebelyeah, POSSE is IMHO a clear candidate of "... if thats a thing that fits you". e.g. some don't use posting-silos much for the things their site is about. or treat silos knowingly as throw-away
SeirdyIMO, "notes" is not a good fit for my IndieWeb site given that mine aren't really meant to "live forever"; if a Fediverse post is good enough I'll make a long blog post about it on my site and POSSE that.
Seirdyi do like the idea of multi-site indieweb. I'm not a plural, I just use two idents as an abstraction over the "professional-casual" spectrum. I do know some plurals who get really irritated by how everything assumes that people have exactly one identity, which I agree is not a great assumption to make even for non-plurals.
Seirdylike i don't *mind* if my employer/professor/etc finds my notes, but i'd rather have my first impression be something slightly closer to "Rohan" on the "Rohan <-> Seirdy" spectrum
Seirdyand if all my notes disappeared tomorrow, i'd feel a bit inconvenienced for about 10 minutes before forgetting about it. there are other things I want to focus on "owning" like bookmarks and my WIP music-rating system.
SeirdyIndieMark currently assumes an audience of a somewhat specific type of person with a simpler sense of identity. This target audience is certainly the "norm" but networks should prioritize interactions between different types of people; the concept of an "edge case" should be applied as little as possible.
[tantek]jan6 yes to keeping relative importance within axes, in particular both to illustrate a spectrum of possibilities, and hopefully to order by difficulty / reusability, such that each incremental implementation step within an axis helps make the next step/level easier to build
Seirdyjacky: hardly singlet is 100% pure singlet through-and-through. One woman may go by "mom", "jennie", "jennifer", and "Mrs. Lin" and respond/act differently to each name. This "Jennifer" is singlet, but they do have multiple personas.
Seirdyjacky: for the singlet to be a plural these personas have to be like different people in headspace who can interact or share information, and the person would feel uncomfortable just introducing themself as "Jennifer".
Seirdyessentially, pluralism (is that a word?) is an "extrapolation" of the Jennifer example I gave of one person == many personas. It stretches that to "one system == many members"
Seirdyhttps://christine.website seems to be a plural who also incorporates my formal/informal view of self: xer formal -> informal spectrum is represented as Cadey -> Xe -> Christine, but xe also has other headmates closer to the informal end of the spectrum. xer site was once primarly for Christine but recently transitioned to being primarily for Xe.
Seirdyjan6: split personality is a condition that's often emergent as a psychological self-defense mechanism. People with split-personality conditions typically have limited control over it.
Seirdyjan6: plurals/tulpas have consciously decided that they are best expressed and seen this way; their personalities share one consciousness and are more of a form of self expression.
[tantek]we present (even slightly) different selves to family, friends, and certainly co-workers, and with those we have repeated but shallow interactions such as retail / services
Seirdy(you probably shouldn't take anything I'm saying as super authorative; I went through a questioning phase and decided I'm not plural, I just have a stronger sense of "different selves in different situations" but it's more of a one-dimensional spectrum for me).
Seirdyit was also a way for me to process emotions since antidepressants+anxiety+my own personality (mostly my own personality) made it...weirder to express myself; I expressed myself online as Seirdy just fine but my face didn't do it too well IRL. so Seirdy and Rohan became different extremes for the same person.
jan6e.g. the old "base you"'s opinions leaking into one of the new "sub-you"'s (would get easier to handle after some time, as there won't be a "base" anymore)
jan6the request at least seems to think you need indieauth, which at least right now doesn't seem to be a requirement, as just the "RelMeAuth" is very easy to set up, and works just fine
jan6not sure how many places it works with, but at least for me with github, it was really simple to set up (no need to spend hours trying to find a suitable server implementation or whatnot)
sknebelwhich you can use as an IndieAuth endpoint, and it verifies that you are you when logging in by doing RelMeAuth for the domain you try to log in as
Seirdynon-authorative speculation: perhaps it's worth drawing a (blurry) distinction between a condition and a trait? this could get messy. for instance, speaking for myself: I'm probably on the autistic spectrum but it's not obvious/pronounced, and I consider it more of a personality trait than a "condition"
aaronpkjacky: in any case my parser needs to be more tolerant of content-type headers apparently, so when you figure out what you're sending can you file an issue here? https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/issues
[tantek]PESOS with Webmention sort of like a Micropub client except without having to give all the posting permissions etc. to Meetable to post on my site
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "perpetual beta" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "perpetual beta is ____", a sentence describing the term)
@kevinmarks ↩️ It's an iterative thing. If you host your own theme we can fork that and mf2-ify it, then the outbound webmentions work better, then we add inbound ones (twitter.com/_/status/1503900918932291586)
capjamesg[d] Seirdy Did you email me about the webring? I know it's broken. I have so much going on right now.
[James_Van_Dyne] Sure. I'll try and give it a gander in the morning.
[KevinMarks] There's some commonality, as they tell you what to change and give you ways to check that it has worked
[tantek] we have an 'areas' focus already in the axes: https://indieweb.org/IndieMark#draft_axes and I'm now considering some sort of hybrid, like maybe we see if we can agree on only Level 0 and Level 1 (because new folks tend to want/need linear guidance like that), and then introduce the areas for folks to explore what they want to choose to improve
jacky destinations is /destination
Seirdy i do like the idea of multi-site indieweb. I'm not a plural, I just use two idents as an abstraction over the "professional-casual" spectrum. I do know some plurals who get really irritated by how everything assumes that people have exactly one identity, which I agree is not a great assumption to make even for non-plurals.
[aciccarello] Sounds like supporting multiple simultaneous logins in micropub clients would be a big help with that.
GWG jacky: How did this send me a webmention? https://jacky.wtf/2022/3/GL/GLYcD91qd1dmP3-2_yaW6ZVe
aaronpk jacky: in any case my parser needs to be more tolerant of content-type headers apparently, so when you figure out what you're sending can you file an issue here? https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/issues