#dev 2025-01-15

2025-01-15 UTC
sebbu3, Dryusdan, Weiz, thegreekgeek_, btrem and grufwub joined the channel
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aaronpk
"XML is just pointy JSON" πŸ˜‚
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[tantek]
"JSON is just curly LISP" 😝
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[schmarty]
(L (O (L)))
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aaronpk
(([schmarty]++)++)++
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[schmarty]
Loqi: processing recursively or recursively processing?
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Loqi
I'm pretty sure recursively processing
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[Joe_Crawford]
!tell capjamesg[d] Some interesting font/typographic stuff seems to me on the way https://developer.chrome.com/blog/css-text-box-trim
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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capjamesg[d]
[Joe_Crawford]++
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Loqi
[Joe_Crawford] has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (116 in all channels)
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capjamesg[d]
This looks really neat!
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capjamesg[d]
I can't wait for Firefox support!
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[tantek]
Is there an MDN article on it?
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corlaez
Could someone fact check me? How does indie auth work? You say this is my website, and it has links pointing to an external page with oauth and then that page can use that oauth to validate it is you, the domain owner. Amr?
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corlaez
So domain1 knows i own domain2 because it points to domain3 that has oauth. Something like that?
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aaronpk
links to other external oauth providers are not part of indieauth
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aaronpk
external being github/twitter/etc
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aaronpk
but otherwise yes, you enter your URL, the website you're logging in to finds your OAuth provider and redirects you there where you log in, then when it sends you back to the app the app is able to verify that you just logged in
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[tantek]
corlaez close. using rel="me" to link to a profile that itself has OAuth support is RelMeAuth. IndieAuth is supporting the IndieAuth protocol directly on your site or delegating to an IndieAuth provider of your choice.
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[tantek]
IndieLogin supports both RelMeAuth and IndieAuth
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carrvo[d]
Those are separate after all? Good, I thought so.
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[tantek]
yes, by design. keeps each protocol simpler
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capjamesg[d]
aaronpk I RSVP'd to https://events.indieweb.org/2025/01/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-tgJwRgluFocb from my domain and a really old profile icon showed up.
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capjamesg[d]
[edit] aaronpk I RSVP'd to https://events.indieweb.org/2025/01/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-tgJwRgluFocb from my domain and a really old profile icon showed up.
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capjamesg[d]
Like, ~2-3 years old.
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Loqi
[preview] [aaronpk] #135 Re-fetch user info from h-cards periodically
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[tantek]
hah! is it forever caching?
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aaronpk
it fetches the first time you log in and never updates πŸ˜‚
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capjamesg[d]
aaronpk Is there a way I can force the cache to reset?
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capjamesg[d]
I'd prefer for my current profile image to show.
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aaronpk
not really
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capjamesg[d]
aaronpk What rich editor does Quill use?
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aaronpk
Good question... it's called "medium editor" since it was meant to clone the medium UI. I don't know the source of it tho
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[tantek]
really? not everyone who wants to blog wants to make hacking their blog their hobby? πŸ˜‚ (cc: [Jo])
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[Jo]
i know, it's very strange
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[develumpen]
does anybody have an example of a checkin with something else nested like ate/drunk or watch?
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[develumpen]
does any known client support this kind of nested attributes (by url)?
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gRegor
Monocle is the only consumer of checkins I can think of currently, looks like it pulls out the `checkin` property name and shows that at the top along with a generated map based on the lat/lng. Example with Monocle preview: https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fcheckins
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gRegor
I don't think any consumers currently would do anything special with other nested properties
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[develumpen]
i'm thinking how to register and show checkins in my blog
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[develumpen]
i know i can send a json checkin to my micropub endpoint and add a "watch" property with a url pointing to a watch post. for example in case i watched a movie on a movie theatre, or i ate something at a restaurant
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[develumpen]
i'm curious to see if other people do this and how they do it
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aaronpk
i would not recommend adding arbitrary properties to posts for that, i went down that route at one point and then backed out
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aaronpk
now if i want to associate posts together, like a food post linked to the checkin, i make them separate posts and add a link from one to the other, then send a webmention so the food shows up under the checkin
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[snarfed]
[develumpen] I've consistently seen people have a bad time when they try to do multiple things in a single h-entry
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[snarfed]
or, at least, any consumers of that h-entry
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[snarfed]
aaronpk++ agreed, not recommended
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Loqi
aaronpk has 44 karma in this channel over the last year (129 in all channels)
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[develumpen]
yeah, that makes sense...
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[develumpen]
[aaronpk] how do you link them?
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aaronpk
like literally a link in the content as if i was mentioning any other url
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aaronpk
there are some post types that do have a property defined that you could use for that link, but it's not really necessary
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[tantek]
yep, no premature extra markup
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[develumpen]
oh i see. i thought maybe updating the h-entry with a property pointing to the url of the other post
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btrem
I catalog my ferments as h-recipe posts, then rate my own ferments in a separate h-review post. But I've configured my site generator to not post the h-review separately; instead, it posts it as an addendum to the recipe. Not sure that's best practice, but it more or less works for me.
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btrem
Oh, forgot to mention: I link the posts using a unique number id.
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aaronpk
hm, i kind of want to catalog the different kinds of posts that have this kind of relationship
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aaronpk
what's a good name for that
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btrem
The idea is so I can look up what fermenting equipment/ingredients/etc. worked, what didn't. But in reality, I don't really look things up. I just go by memory.
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aaronpk
some examples I've done: food linked to a venue, an event linked to a trip, a flight linked to a trip, a photo and notes of making a recipe linked to the recipe...
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aaronpk
i guess they're technically specific types of replies, but I don't really think of them that way
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aaronpk
oh yeah the reply context is where i link these up some of the time, like this https://aaronparecki.com/2022/11/22/29/
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aaronpk
now if you look at the replies to the recipe you can see all the photos when i've made a batch
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Loqi
[preview] [Aaron Parecki] Made 108oz hot sauce. The store was low on habanero peppers so about half of this is red Fresno peppers, and it's noticeably more red than normal. I forgot to use an apple this time, and also used just 2tsp corn starch. It seemed to work fine tho... https://aaronparecki.com/img/1240x,q60/2022/11/22/29/photo.jpg
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btrem
aaronpk: I've thought of making h-entry posts each time I try an h-recipe as you have laid out. But I can't really make it work for what I'm trying to do.
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aaronpk
how so? i don't even have any special tooling for it, i literally just reply to the recipe post like i was replying to anything else
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btrem
Because ferment recipes have variations more often than not. And the point of the catalog is to document what works and what doesn't.
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aaronpk
that's what the content of the post is for
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btrem
It's not the tech, it's the content. ;-)
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aaronpk
i mean why can't you just write those notes as the text of the reply to the recipe?
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btrem
Yeahbut with a ferment, there's no real base recipe. Like if I make giardiniera with carrots, broccoli, and cauliflower, then a week late do the recipe but add onion. Then next time I add garlic but remove onions. Not sure if you follow.
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btrem
It's not like lasagna, where there's a base recipe, noodles layered with meat and cheese, where you might modify the spices or some other tangential thing.
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btrem
In a way, I'm sort of abusing h-recipe, using it for execution of a recipe rather than the recipe itself.
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btrem
me shrugs
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[develumpen]
i like the idea of responding to a post. like the main post would be the checkin and then responses with food, photos, watches, etc
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[develumpen]
i'll have to think about how to display the posts, as i don't want those replies to be mixed with "comments"
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btrem
shrugs
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aaronpk
[develumpen]: you could always prioritize your own replies on top of other comments, or even pull them into a special section
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btrem
[develumpen]: sorry my shrug was meant for what I'm doing, not your comment!
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[develumpen]
@btream haha i know, no worries
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[develumpen]
oops sorry for the misspell
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[develumpen]
this conversation has been very productive for me. thanks y'all
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btrem
I brought up my recipe dilemma here a few months ago. There was no real consensus on whether to change it. Either way presents drawbacks.
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[develumpen]
i'm trying to keep my endpoint as simple as i can, mostly focused on what http://micropublish.net can do, because i don't want to start my own client as well,
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[develumpen]
and this checkin situation got me thinking for a while
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btrem
Following up on the earlier (yesterday for me, maybe earlier today where you are) discussion of an acknowledgements/thank you for posts. ATM, I put my thank you's in an <aside> element inside <main>.
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btrem
But now that I'm going to create a separate acknowledgements section outside of <main>. Is there any value to keeping the <aside> markup? Probably doesn't matter either way, but I thought I'd ask.
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btrem
I feel like I'm abusing <aside> because of the limitations of my static site generator. A post has only two parts: front matter and content. The front matter is the meta stuff (title, date, etc.). The content part goes inside the <main> element. But what do you do if there's something that isn't really front matter, but isn't really the *main* content? IYSWIM.
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btrem
Until now, I put such stuff inside an <aside>. But that's a bit of a hack.
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gRegor
A bit of scrollback: I think I've done a couple experiments with reading progress as in-reply-to notes to the "started reading" note.
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[snarfed]
relevant, https://ptd.spec.indieweb.org/ is used pretty widely w/mf2 and the indieweb, and it's not designed to return multiple types
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Loqi
[preview] [Tantek Γ‡elik] Post Type Discovery
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btrem
[snarfed]: hmm, yeah, no h-recipe. But I already discovered that problem because I tried to link my reviews to my recipes using webmenion.io and it didn't work. Now I know why. :)
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btrem
And because of that, I link them in my site build process. Which obviates the whole webmention/mf thing for my use case.
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gRegor
Hm? wm.io should receive them regardless of the h-* on the original post?
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btrem
It didn't. I'm afraid it was a long time ago, so I don't recall the details very well.
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[snarfed]
btrem oh yeah you'd just check for h-recipe as the type. but yeah h-event is in PTD, maybe h-recipe should be there too
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gRegor
^ was just thinking that
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btrem
shrugs (again!)
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gRegor
btrem, have an example h-recipe post? I'll try a webmention :)
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gRegor
If they're public and you don't mind
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btrem
I abandoned the code I was using because it wasn't working. But /maybe/ it was because I was using the wrong type in the review post?
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btrem
gRegor: I don't think I do anymore. The ferment recipe posts were so numerous, that they were taking over my site. So I removed them. They are now in a separate 11ty project. At some point, I'll create a subdomain of btrem.com for the recipes. Until then, they exist only on my localhost. ;-)
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gRegor
wm.io shouldn't use PTD as part of the verification to receive a wm. It might use that to show some of the metadata like "type: entry", though I think that's from XRay
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btrem
I /think/ it was because my link was not a plain link, it was an h-review. And that prevented wm.io from seeing it. As I said, this was a long time ago, so it's a bit foggy now.
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gRegor
no worries. just curious
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btrem
I wonder if I can search for the discussion in #dev and point you to it.
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btrem
tries ^
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btrem
Hmm, no luck with either google or ddg. Is the irc archives off limits to crawlers?
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gRegor
No. Tried the search bottom left on chat.indieweb.org?
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gRegor
On the right can also filter by channel
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btrem
I'm looking through the nick search link you sent. Some previous discussions of the same general topic, but nothing specific about wm.io not working for me. I dunno. Maybe it was /not/ in irc. Maybe a GH issue?
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carrvo[d]
btrem, for your ferment you shouldn't really need a base recipe. If I understand webmentions correctly (without trying them) then you just need a page to identify the particular "ferment" and you can display your additions/experiments in one place. Kind of like an empty base recipe.
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[tantek]
btrem, re: things not in "frontmatter" but also not part of the "content", you could use both <header> and <footer> elements inside <main> for that
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btrem
carrvo[d]: that's what I do. Except that webmentions.io doesn't work for h-review/h-recipe. cf. the chat.indieweb link I posted earlier.
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btrem
So instead I link then with my static site builder.
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btrem
[tantek]: Not sure I follow. I don't normally put a <header> or <footer> inside my <main> element. It's generally <header/> followed by <main> content... </main> then <footer/>.
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btrem
With the "content..." part coming from the content of the .md file, that is, the stuff below frontmatter.
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btrem
I suppose <main> allows flow content, so I /could/ put a <header> inside, but that would be weird and counterintuitive to the future me who's trying to decipher past me's markup decisions. ;-)
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[tantek]
pretty sure main is like a top level section element in that both should contain their respective header and footer element if any